i hear a lot of people around me telling
that it wasnt einstein inventing relativity,
but some other guys before him

exactly what was einsteins contributon
to relativity, did he stole his tensors?

"nill" wrote in message
ups.com...
i hear a lot of people around me telling
that it wasnt einstein inventing relativity,
but some other guys before him

And yet these other guys can't prove it for themselves?

There were at least two other people who were significanlty involved. One
was a mathematician named David Hilbert who also worked on General
Relativity. In fact he worked with Einstein during November 1915. The final
steps to the theory of general relativity were taken by Einstein and Hilbert
at almost the same time. They both discovered the same final form of the
gravitational field equations within days of each other must indicate that
their exchange of ideas was helpful.

The other his friend was his friend Marcel Grossman. I'm not sure how much
they worked together but I do know that they published a paper together
called "Outline of a Generalized Theory of Relativity and of a Theory of
Gravitation." The first part was called "Physical Part" and was written by
Einstein while the second part was called "Mathematical Part" and was
written by Grossman.

exactly what was einsteins contributon to relativity,

To hard to quantify but he contributed to most of it. Ask an historian that
question.

.. did he stole his tensors?

You can steal a tensor as much as you can steal the number 4.

Pete

On Oct 6, 10:21 pm, "Pmb" wrote:
"nill" wrote in message

ups.com...

i hear a lot of people around me telling
that it wasnt einstein inventing relativity,
but some other guys before him

And yet these other guys can't prove it for themselves?

There were at least two other people who were significanlty involved. One
was a mathematician named David Hilbert who also worked on General
Relativity. In fact he worked with Einstein during November 1915. The final
steps to the theory of general relativity were taken by Einstein and Hilbert
at almost the same time. They both discovered the same final form of the
gravitational field equations within days of each other must indicate that
their exchange of ideas was helpful.

The other his friend was his friend Marcel Grossman. I'm not sure how much
they worked together but I do know that they published a paper together
called "Outline of a Generalized Theory of Relativity and of a Theory of
Gravitation." The first part was called "Physical Part" and was written by
Einstein while the second part was called "Mathematical Part" and was
written by Grossman.

exactly what was einsteins contributon to relativity,

To hard to quantify but he contributed to most of it. Ask an historian that
question.

.. did he stole his tensors?

You can steal a tensor as much as you can steal the number 4.

Pete

what about his wife,

did he stole his tensors from his wife?

then he diden liked her anymore, becus he
discovered that she had darker skin color
than he had

then he did his cousin in stead of

On Sat, 6 Oct 2007 16:21:58 -0400, "Pmb"
wrote:
[snip junk]

Goddamnit Pete, all you do is give him a reason to continue his
dyslexic trolling. Learn some pattern recognition.

"nill" wrote in message
oups.com...
On Oct 6, 10:21 pm, "Pmb" wrote:
"nill" wrote in message

ups.com...

i hear a lot of people around me telling
that it wasnt einstein inventing relativity,
but some other guys before him

And yet these other guys can't prove it for themselves?

There were at least two other people who were significanlty involved. One
was a mathematician named David Hilbert who also worked on General
Relativity. In fact he worked with Einstein during November 1915. The
final
steps to the theory of general relativity were taken by Einstein and
Hilbert
at almost the same time. They both discovered the same final form of the
gravitational field equations within days of each other must indicate
that
their exchange of ideas was helpful.

The other his friend was his friend Marcel Grossman. I'm not sure how
much
they worked together but I do know that they published a paper together
called "Outline of a Generalized Theory of Relativity and of a Theory of
Gravitation." The first part was called "Physical Part" and was written
by
Einstein while the second part was called "Mathematical Part" and was
written by Grossman.

exactly what was einsteins contributon to relativity,

To hard to quantify but he contributed to most of it. Ask an historian
that
question.

.. did he stole his tensors?

You can steal a tensor as much as you can steal the number 4.

Pete

what about his wife,

What about her? They discussed physics at times, because they were both
physicists. I'm sure he bounced ideas of her. But that doesn't mean she
helped him create relativity.

did he stole his tensors from his wife?

Since I had indicated that its meaningless to steal a tensor you're either
not reading what I'm posting or unble to understand it. Which is it?

then he diden liked her anymore, becus he
discovered that she had darker skin color
than he had

Oh he *discovered* that huh? So you're saying that they he didn't notice the
color of here skin before they got married? Where do you get this stuff
from??

then he did his cousin in stead of

He *married* his second cousin. "did" her is rather crude language for a
discussion group on relativity.

Pete

On Oct 6, 10:49 pm, "Pmb" wrote:
"nill" wrote in message

oups.com...



On Oct 6, 10:21 pm, "Pmb" wrote:
"nill" wrote in message

roups.com...

i hear a lot of people around me telling
that it wasnt einstein inventing relativity,
but some other guys before him

And yet these other guys can't prove it for themselves?

There were at least two other people who were significanlty involved. One
was a mathematician named David Hilbert who also worked on General
Relativity. In fact he worked with Einstein during November 1915. The
final
steps to the theory of general relativity were taken by Einstein and
Hilbert
at almost the same time. They both discovered the same final form of the
gravitational field equations within days of each other must indicate
that
their exchange of ideas was helpful.

The other his friend was his friend Marcel Grossman. I'm not sure how
much
they worked together but I do know that they published a paper together
called "Outline of a Generalized Theory of Relativity and of a Theory of
Gravitation." The first part was called "Physical Part" and was written
by
Einstein while the second part was called "Mathematical Part" and was
written by Grossman.

exactly what was einsteins contributon to relativity,

To hard to quantify but he contributed to most of it. Ask an historian
that
question.

.. did he stole his tensors?

You can steal a tensor as much as you can steal the number 4.

Pete

what about his wife,

What about her? They discussed physics at times, because they were both
physicists. I'm sure he bounced ideas of her. But that doesn't mean she
helped him create relativity.

did he stole his tensors from his wife?

Since I had indicated that its meaningless to steal a tensor you're either
not reading what I'm posting or unble to understand it. Which is it?

then he diden liked her anymore, becus he
discovered that she had darker skin color
than he had

Oh he *discovered* that huh? So you're saying that they he didn't notice the
color of here skin before they got married? Where do you get this stuff
from??

he said not me, he wondered how he got
married with her, with the mother of his children,

what kind of relativity is that


then he did his cousin in stead of

He *married* his second cousin. "did" her is rather crude language for a
discussion group on relativity.

Pete

married to cousins!?

what relativity is that?

"nill" wrote in message
ps.com...
On Oct 6, 10:49 pm, "Pmb" wrote:
"nill" wrote in message

oups.com...



On Oct 6, 10:21 pm, "Pmb" wrote:
"nill" wrote in message

roups.com...

i hear a lot of people around me telling
that it wasnt einstein inventing relativity,
but some other guys before him

And yet these other guys can't prove it for themselves?

There were at least two other people who were significanlty involved.
One
was a mathematician named David Hilbert who also worked on General
Relativity. In fact he worked with Einstein during November 1915. The
final
steps to the theory of general relativity were taken by Einstein and
Hilbert
at almost the same time. They both discovered the same final form of
the
gravitational field equations within days of each other must indicate
that
their exchange of ideas was helpful.

The other his friend was his friend Marcel Grossman. I'm not sure how
much
they worked together but I do know that they published a paper
together
called "Outline of a Generalized Theory of Relativity and of a Theory
of
Gravitation." The first part was called "Physical Part" and was
written
by
Einstein while the second part was called "Mathematical Part" and was
written by Grossman.

exactly what was einsteins contributon to relativity,

To hard to quantify but he contributed to most of it. Ask an historian
that
question.

.. did he stole his tensors?

You can steal a tensor as much as you can steal the number 4.

Pete

what about his wife,

What about her? They discussed physics at times, because they were both
physicists. I'm sure he bounced ideas of her. But that doesn't mean she
helped him create relativity.

did he stole his tensors from his wife?

Since I had indicated that its meaningless to steal a tensor you're
either
not reading what I'm posting or unble to understand it. Which is it?

then he diden liked her anymore, becus he
discovered that she had darker skin color
than he had

Oh he *discovered* that huh? So you're saying that they he didn't notice
the
color of here skin before they got married? Where do you get this stuff
from??

he said not me, he wondered how he got
married with her, with the mother of his children,

what kind of relativity is that


then he did his cousin in stead of

He *married* his second cousin. "did" her is rather crude language for a
discussion group on relativity.

Pete

married to cousins!?

For a person to marry a second cousin is not illegal or all that uncommon.

I see you've left the domain of physics and are delving into Einstein's
personal life of which I have no interest. I will therefore igore this
thead.

Pete

On Oct 6, 10:45 pm, Eric Gisse
wrote:
On Sat, 6 Oct 2007 16:21:58 -0400, "Pmb"
wrote:
[snip junk]

Goddamnit Pete, all you do is give him a reason to continue his
dyslexic trolling. Learn some pattern recognition.

a man wiser than my self once said,
patterns recogn is for amateurs,

real physicists are looking at error-bars

On Oct 7, 12:24 am, "Pmb" wrote:
"nill" wrote in message

ps.com...



On Oct 6, 10:49 pm, "Pmb" wrote:
"nill" wrote in message

groups.com...

On Oct 6, 10:21 pm, "Pmb" wrote:
"nill" wrote in message

roups.com...

i hear a lot of people around me telling
that it wasnt einstein inventing relativity,
but some other guys before him

And yet these other guys can't prove it for themselves?

There were at least two other people who were significanlty involved.
One
was a mathematician named David Hilbert who also worked on General
Relativity. In fact he worked with Einstein during November 1915. The
final
steps to the theory of general relativity were taken by Einstein and
Hilbert
at almost the same time. They both discovered the same final form of
the
gravitational field equations within days of each other must indicate
that
their exchange of ideas was helpful.

The other his friend was his friend Marcel Grossman. I'm not sure how
much
they worked together but I do know that they published a paper
together
called "Outline of a Generalized Theory of Relativity and of a Theory
of
Gravitation." The first part was called "Physical Part" and was
written
by
Einstein while the second part was called "Mathematical Part" and was
written by Grossman.

exactly what was einsteins contributon to relativity,

To hard to quantify but he contributed to most of it. Ask an historian
that
question.

.. did he stole his tensors?

You can steal a tensor as much as you can steal the number 4.

Pete

what about his wife,

What about her? They discussed physics at times, because they were both
physicists. I'm sure he bounced ideas of her. But that doesn't mean she
helped him create relativity.

did he stole his tensors from his wife?

Since I had indicated that its meaningless to steal a tensor you're
either
not reading what I'm posting or unble to understand it. Which is it?

then he diden liked her anymore, becus he
discovered that she had darker skin color
than he had

Oh he *discovered* that huh? So you're saying that they he didn't notice
the
color of here skin before they got married? Where do you get this stuff
from??

he said not me, he wondered how he got
married with her, with the mother of his children,

what kind of relativity is that

then he did his cousin in stead of

He *married* his second cousin. "did" her is rather crude language for a
discussion group on relativity.

Pete

married to cousins!?

For a person to marry a second cousin is not illegal or all that uncommon.

maybe not illegal for your people,

and is not that healthy to do such
a thing


I see you've left the domain of physics and are delving into Einstein's
personal life of which I have no interest. I will therefore igore this
thead.

Pete

maybe already too late for you to
ignore this thread

On Oct 6, 12:15 pm, nill wrote:
i hear a lot of people around me telling
that it wasnt einstein inventing relativity,
but some other guys before him

exactly what was einsteins contributon
to relativity, did he stole his tensors?

If you are new to this group, you are probably owed an explanation. It
so happens that most of the posters to this group are an odd
collection of what could be charitably described as "armchair
critics". Because of that anyone interested in finding out the truth
about relativity must bring with him a Brobdingnagian-size BS filter.

Rules of thumb to separate junk from correct information - not
foolproof but they tend to work:

1. for all practical purposes all claims that relativity has an error
in it or that Einstein didn't create relativity can be safely ignored
for reasons which are too long to mention here but a relativity FAQ
will do nicely (search the web for it),

2. most of the "armchair critics" use pseudonyms,

3. they almost never refer to scientific literature,

4. they tend to use only original expositions of relativity, very
rarely referring to technical works other than the original 1905 paper
by Einstein,

5. as a corollary, they tend to use somewhat antiquated terminology
(admittedly, a trait hard to pick on unless you are au courant
technically),

6. you can safely ignore posts containing invective (with one notable
exception: "Uncle Al" uses invective as a stylistic device but he does
know his stuff cold),

7. use common sense and ignore obvious nonsense along the lines of "I
don't know calculus but Einstein made a calculus error on page such-
and-such" or "Nobody over the last 90 years except me has noticed the
following mistake in Einstein's paper...", followed by an explanation
of an absolutely trivial point,

8. "armchair critics" never discuss any complicated mathematics, even
standard calculus strains them, and this strain should be visible even
to a bystander. Other standard mathematics, not really considered
advanced by professionals (like real and complex analysis,
differential geometry, foundations of topology, etc.) are almost never
brought up. Caveat: exceptions do exist, there are a couple of
"critics" who regularly post reams of mathematics - almost entirely
worthless but again, it's probably hard to see it unless you know the
stuff well.

You'll probably see the above items in action immediately appearing as
followups to my post.

The astonishingly high amount of noise on this newsgroup (I'd say
close to 95%) is a consequence of two accidents of history:

1. this newsgroup was in fact originally created (around 1997) as a
means to divert the then-annoyingly high amount of noise from the
newsgroup _sci.physics_. As you can see, it succeeded admirably in
doing just that.

2. certain foundational aspects of _special_ relativity can be
expressed in terms of very few prerequisites: high school mathematics.
This makes special relativity "available" to people who cannot
distinguish (through hard work and years of practice, and healthy self-
criticism) between superficial "understanding" of an equation or two
and true understanding of the entire chain of reasoning which does not
consist of mathematics only but includes the knowledge of what went on
before (which is mathematically much more complicated).

Your mileage may vary.

--
Jan Bielawski