"Benj" wrote in message
oups.com...

Ian Parker wrote:

There is a conspiracy theory calculus. Basically the more people who
conspire the greater the possibility of a leak. With the large number
of people who participated in Apollo a leak would be virually certain.

Conspiracies are posible iff (2 fs deliberate) you have a very small
tightly knit group of people.

Yes, there is a "conspiracy theory" but clearly you have no idea what
it is. Instead you have cleverly (or perhaps stupidly) substituted the
old "The more people who know a secret the greater the probability of
a leak" saw, which is perhaps OK since it tends to be true. It's why
secrets are usually limited to as few as possible who "need to know".

But then comes the "bait and switch". It's like the trick currently
being used on global warming, where first you say global warming is
real (true) and temperature and CO2 levels are both rising (also true)
and then pull the fast move of "CO2 CAUSES global warming" (NOT
true). Same thing here. You jump from leak theory to a conclusion
that given a reasonably large number of people involved, a secret
COULD NOT be kept. This is clearly nonsense. The Manhattan project
was IMMENSE! The people, the money, the materials, the bureaucracy,
etc. should have guaranteed exposure. Yet the only leak was from the
inside to the Russians by one of the scientists and of course that
wasn't even known until the Russian bomb exposed it.

And let me point out that even if there is a leak, that doesn't mean
exposure. The fact that there are people agitating about an Apollo
hoax, COULD mean that there was a leak. But a carefully contained leak
insures a leak never leads to any kind of proof.

Anyone who says the government (or those in power) can't keep a secret
is either lying or ignorant. I point you to the UFO secret. Yes, there
are MANY people who can know a secret, but the catch is those in power
have almost limitless resources. And as an additional factor have
absolutely zero moral scruples. This means that should someone
actually leak information, massive efforts can and will be made to
cover it up. And that is not only paid journalists and authors to
throw chaff in the wind and cleverly use disinformation to lead any
serious investigators away, but also includes the gathering of any
physical evidence and its disappearance as well as the actual murder
of the leakers should that become necessary when simple intimidation
won't work.

The point is that in conspiracy theory, you don't have a free wheeling
system going along on its own. You have an active, tightly controlled,
system of oppression and disinformation designed to immediately
squelch even a SUGGESTION that anyone investigate a given area.

So when someone says on the Internet, hey, look at this! Instantly,
posters arise spouting all manner of "debunking" theories ridiculing
and "proving" the given suggestion is unreasonable. Only they aren't
real discussions at all. These are only "plausible" explanations that
really can't stand up to real investigations. But those involved with
secrets have discovered long ago that for the public a "possible"
explanation isn't required. The public is more than satisfied with
merely a "plausible" one. Hence even with the possibility of leaks,
most people are fooled and even the ones who still have suspicions
will not have any evidence available with which to prove anything.

Yes, children. With enough money, control and effort conspiracy can
work. If you doubt that simply ask any REAL historian! Where do you
think the statement "History is bunk" came from? The history most of
us were taught and most people accept is FILLED with "plausible"
events, none of which were really true.

Case in point, look at all the people who work for the government at Area
51. If the idea that you will have leaks is true, why don't we have
thousands of people writing to the papers as to what went and goes on there?
Heck, OUR GOVERNMENT REFUSES TO ADMIT THAT IT EXISTS, but there are still
those here that say that they can't keep secrets? That is the BEST HOAX
ever!

wrote in message
oups.com...
On Jul 5, 8:40 pm, Ian Parker wrote:
On 5 Jul, 01:38, wrote:


Actually, the correct law is "the greater the lie the more they'll
believe". That's an Adolf Hitler quote. Take 5 mins from your idealism
and take a look around.


If this statement is factual then those who believe in the hoax are
correct....... I knew I was right!

"The_Man" wrote in message
ups.com...
On Jul 4, 8:38 pm, wrote:
http://www.iamthewitness.com/NASA-exposes-Apollo.html

Those who were deceived by the Apollo Hoax will be remembered, for
eternity, as the greatest fools ever to have walked the surface of
this planet.

The idea that man (or woman) has actually walked on this planet
(Earth) is a hoax perpertrated by NASA to perpetuate funding. America
was never disovered by Columbus -

Columbus was not the first to discover America . I guess this fact makes
your entire post mute then, doesn't it.

"Geoman" wrote in message
...

I thought this place dealt with facts. There is a portion of mathematical
probability that there were a FEW who really knew about the hoax, to say
otherwise is to deny the science of math itself.

You presume there was a hoax. The probability that you are right is less
than the probability of a hoax. Let's work on that one first.

"Geoman" wrote in message
...

Amen, I agree. Just goes to show that some of these 'experts' here who
refuse to look at presented material and then try to discuss with anyone
the 'facts' are showing they are the ones lacking all mature reason. Just
like Nazi's, believe without questions, follow without rationalism!

You claim to be rational and that anyone who disagrees with you is a Nazi.

Case closed.

"Geoman" wrote in message
...

Hey, Plonk me too!! I was taught to hang around leaders,

Add to what we know of you that you are a natural born follower.

"Geoman" wrote in message
...

Case in point, look at all the people who work for the government at Area
51. If the idea that you will have leaks is true, why don't we have
thousands of people writing to the papers as to what went and goes on
there?

Because its mission is a secret, and the employees are trustworthy and honor
the confidentiality of their work. Besides, it's probably downright boring
work.

Heck, OUR GOVERNMENT REFUSES TO ADMIT THAT IT EXISTS,

NO THEY DO NOT! Heck, when it was particularly busy you could watch the
employee flights to and from the base. You can look at it via sattelite
images. It is on a map.

On Aug 7, 12:20 pm, "jjs" wrote:
"Geoman" wrote in message

...

Case in point, look at all the people who work for the government at Area
51. If the idea that you will have leaks is true, why don't we have
thousands of people writing to the papers as to what went and goes on
there?

Because its mission is a secret, and the employees are trustworthy and honor
the confidentiality of their work. Besides, it's probably downright boring
work.

Because the people who pay money for secrets are in foreign
intelligence agencies, not newspapers.

Heck, OUR GOVERNMENT REFUSES TO ADMIT THAT IT EXISTS,

NO THEY DO NOT! Heck, when it was particularly busy you could watch the
employee flights to and from the base. You can look at it via sattelite
images. It is on a map.

There are lots of such open secrets. I used to live near NSA,
and there were lots of things about that place which were
not openly publicized but were nevertheless common knowledge.
For instance, it's a little hard to hide when a new building
is going up, and when that new building has interesting
construction features.

Similarly, people who worked there didn't say openly where
they worked to casual acquaintances. Instead, there was
a vauge stock answer which always screamed "NSA" because
those were the only people who gave that answer.


- Randy

"Randy Poe" wrote in message
ups.com...
On Aug 7, 12:20 pm, "jjs" wrote:

Because its mission is a secret, and the employees are trustworthy and
honor
the confidentiality of their work. Besides, it's probably downright
boring
work.

Because the people who pay money for secrets are in foreign
intelligence agencies, not newspapers.

Excellent point.

as pointed-out by the Tits On Mars guy,
who was a commentator for one of the TV networks
at the time, these simulations were labeled
as such for the broadcasts ... Dick Hoagland,
whose own face may be on Mars, two!

in Gore's "global" warming propoganda,
he actually refers to the "dark side of the moon,"
when the astronauts lost radio contact, or
some thing, followed by the paradigmatic "rise
of Earth" during orbit; another victim of pinkfloydism,
"the wall" of the Harry Potter PS
that he attended in DC?... anyway,
there are many other inaccuracies in his movie, but
I didn't take notes when I saw it at the pier.

Unfortunately NASA did not acknowledge right away that
the TV news pix were reenacted and enhanced...

You mean they acknowledged this? Do you have a link?

--n~nerfman~n!