If position and time is uncertain (Uncertainty Principle) then how do
they know that two electron or two photons can occupy the same place
and time simultaneously?

wrote:
If position and time is uncertain (Uncertainty Principle) then how do
they know that two electron or two photons can occupy the same place
and time simultaneously?

Photons do not occupy places around the atoms nucleus.

But the atom accepts and emits photons, but only at very determined
frequencies or energies which in photon terms is exactly the same.

By studying these energies, one can see that the positions of the two
lower electrons, are about the same.

One can not really talk about "positions" of electrons around atoms, as
they are present in a "probability cloud" or "orbital", the only thing
that one can say, is that by hitting the atom with a photon of a certain
frequency, one can kick an electron to a "higher" orbital, the photon
gets absorbed by this process, which lasts only a very short time, and
the electron returns to its lower orbital, hereby emitting a photon of
the same frequency as the absorbed original. There are many higher
orbitals, each with a corresponding energy and even an "ionization"
energy, which totally removes the electron from the atom. This part of
physics is also called spectroscopy, as for photons, frequencies and
energies are equivalent.

Uwe Hayek.

On Jun 29, 10:59 am, Hayek wrote:
wrote:
If position and time is uncertain (Uncertainty Principle) then how do
they know that two electron or two photons can occupy the same place
and time simultaneously?

Photons do not occupy places around the atoms nucleus.

But the atom accepts and emits photons, but only at very determined
frequencies or energies which in photon terms is exactly the same.

By studying these energies, one can see that the positions of the two
lower electrons, are about the same.


About the same is not the same as occupying the same position at the
same time therefore doesn't answer the question asked above.

One can not really talk about "positions" of electrons around atoms, as
they are present in a "probability cloud" or "orbital", the only thing
that one can say, is that by hitting the atom with a photon of a certain
frequency, one can kick an electron to a "higher" orbital, the photon
gets absorbed by this process, which lasts only a very short time, and
the electron returns to its lower orbital, hereby emitting a photon of
the same frequency as the absorbed original. There are many higher
orbitals, each with a corresponding energy and even an "ionization"
energy, which totally removes the electron from the atom. This part of
physics is also called spectroscopy, as for photons, frequencies and
energies are equivalent.

Uwe Hayek.

wrote:
On Jun 29, 10:59 am, Hayek wrote:
wrote:
If position and time is uncertain (Uncertainty Principle) then how do
they know that two electron or two photons can occupy the same place
and time simultaneously?
Photons do not occupy places around the atoms nucleus.

But the atom accepts and emits photons, but only at very determined
frequencies or energies which in photon terms is exactly the same.

By studying these energies, one can see that the positions of the two
lower electrons, are about the same.


About the same is not the same as occupying the same position at the
same time therefore doesn't answer the question asked above.

Let us take a practical example : a helium atom : separating the first
electron is not the same as separating the second electron.

But if we consider a third electron in Lithium, it definitely is at
another energy band as the two "lower" ones.

The whole point of building the theory then was matching the
spectroscopic observations, the measuring of the different energy
levels, to a model that explained them.

Uwe Hayek.


One can not really talk about "positions" of electrons around atoms, as
they are present in a "probability cloud" or "orbital", the only thing
that one can say, is that by hitting the atom with a photon of a certain
frequency, one can kick an electron to a "higher" orbital, the photon
gets absorbed by this process, which lasts only a very short time, and
the electron returns to its lower orbital, hereby emitting a photon of
the same frequency as the absorbed original. There are many higher
orbitals, each with a corresponding energy and even an "ionization"
energy, which totally removes the electron from the atom. This part of
physics is also called spectroscopy, as for photons, frequencies and
energies are equivalent.

Uwe Hayek.

On Jun 29, 12:34 pm, Hayek wrote:
wrote:
On Jun 29, 10:59 am, Hayek wrote:
wrote:
If position and time is uncertain (Uncertainty Principle) then how do
they know that two electron or two photons can occupy the same place
and time simultaneously?
Photons do not occupy places around the atoms nucleus.

But the atom accepts and emits photons, but only at very determined
frequencies or energies which in photon terms is exactly the same.

By studying these energies, one can see that the positions of the two
lower electrons, are about the same.

About the same is not the same as occupying the same position at the
same time therefore doesn't answer the question asked above.

Let us take a practical example : a helium atom : separating the first
electron is not the same as separating the second electron.

But if we consider a third electron in Lithium, it definitely is at
another energy band as the two "lower" ones.

The whole point of building the theory then was matching the
spectroscopic observations, the measuring of the different energy
levels, to a model that explained them.



Spectroscopy and energy levels, I believe means same orbit and not
same space at the same time.


Uwe Hayek.





One can not really talk about "positions" of electrons around atoms, as
they are present in a "probability cloud" or "orbital", the only thing
that one can say, is that by hitting the atom with a photon of a certain
frequency, one can kick an electron to a "higher" orbital, the photon
gets absorbed by this process, which lasts only a very short time, and
the electron returns to its lower orbital, hereby emitting a photon of
the same frequency as the absorbed original. There are many higher
orbitals, each with a corresponding energy and even an "ionization"
energy, which totally removes the electron from the atom. This part of
physics is also called spectroscopy, as for photons, frequencies and
energies are equivalent.

Uwe Hayek.- Hide quoted text -

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