In 1964 Einsteinians discovered that Einstein's inconsistency, like any
other inconsistency, is based on two incompatible principles: the
principle of invariability of the speed of light and the principle of
variability of the speed of light. They called the discovery "a
previously forgotten facet of general relativity theory" and made use
of it in the sense of extracting money from it:

http://www.blazelabs.com/f-g-gcont.asp :
"The first confirmation of a long range variation in the speed of light
travelling in space came in 1964. Irwin Shapiro, it seems, was the
first to make use of a previously forgotten facet of general relativity
theory -- that the speed of light is reduced when it passes through a
gravitational field. He had proposed an observational test to check his
prediction: bounce radar beams off the surface of Venus and Mercury,
and measure the round trip travel time. When the Earth, Sun, and Venus
are most favorably aligned, Shapiro showed that the expected time
delay, due to the presence of the Sun, of a radar signal traveling from
the Earth to Venus and back, would be about 200 microseconds more than
it would if the sun was not present. Later on, using the MIT Haystack
radar antenna, the experiment was repeated, matching Shapiro's
predicted amount of time delay. The experiments have been repeated many
times since, with increasing accuracy. This experiment had for the
first time shown that the constants like c and G, assumed constants in
Einstein's SR theory suffered local (or regional) in the proximity of
massive bodies like the sun. Faced with this evidence, Einstein stated:
"In the second place our result shows that, according to the general
theory of relativity, the law of the constancy of the velocity of light
in vacuo, which constitutes one of the two fundamental assumptions in
the special theory of relativity and to which we have already
frequently referred, cannot claim any unlimited validity. A curvature
of rays of light can only take place when the velocity of propagation
of light varies with position..."

Pentcho Valev

Pentcho Valev wrote:
In 1964 Einsteinians discovered that Einstein's inconsistency, like any
other inconsistency, is based on two incompatible principles: the
principle of invariability of the speed of light and the principle of
variability of the speed of light. They called the discovery "a
previously forgotten facet of general relativity theory" and made use
of it in the sense of extracting money from it:

http://www.blazelabs.com/f-g-gcont.asp :
"The first confirmation of a long range variation in the speed of light
travelling in space came in 1964. Irwin Shapiro, it seems, was the
first to make use of a previously forgotten facet of general relativity
theory -- that the speed of light is reduced when it passes through a
gravitational field. He had proposed an observational test to check his
prediction: bounce radar beams off the surface of Venus and Mercury,
and measure the round trip travel time. When the Earth, Sun, and Venus
are most favorably aligned, Shapiro showed that the expected time
delay, due to the presence of the Sun, of a radar signal traveling from
the Earth to Venus and back, would be about 200 microseconds more than
it would if the sun was not present. Later on, using the MIT Haystack
radar antenna, the experiment was repeated, matching Shapiro's
predicted amount of time delay. The experiments have been repeated many
times since, with increasing accuracy. This experiment had for the
first time shown that the constants like c and G, assumed constants in
Einstein's SR theory suffered local (or regional) in the proximity of
massive bodies like the sun. Faced with this evidence, Einstein stated:
"In the second place our result shows that, according to the general
theory of relativity, the law of the constancy of the velocity of light
in vacuo, which constitutes one of the two fundamental assumptions in
the special theory of relativity and to which we have already
frequently referred, cannot claim any unlimited validity. A curvature
of rays of light can only take place when the velocity of propagation
of light varies with position..."

Pentcho Valev

It seems you are confusing speed with velocity. Velocity is both speed
AND direction. According to my understanding, when light is refracted,
whether by matter or gravity, it's velocity changes due to a change of
direction and not a change of speed. In other words, the "photons" are
increasingly accelerated as refractive index increases.

wrote:
Pentcho Valev wrote:
In 1964 Einsteinians discovered that Einstein's inconsistency, like any
other inconsistency, is based on two incompatible principles: the
principle of invariability of the speed of light and the principle of
variability of the speed of light. They called the discovery "a
previously forgotten facet of general relativity theory" and made use
of it in the sense of extracting money from it:

http://www.blazelabs.com/f-g-gcont.asp :
"The first confirmation of a long range variation in the speed of light
travelling in space came in 1964. Irwin Shapiro, it seems, was the
first to make use of a previously forgotten facet of general relativity
theory -- that the speed of light is reduced when it passes through a
gravitational field. He had proposed an observational test to check his
prediction: bounce radar beams off the surface of Venus and Mercury,
and measure the round trip travel time. When the Earth, Sun, and Venus
are most favorably aligned, Shapiro showed that the expected time
delay, due to the presence of the Sun, of a radar signal traveling from
the Earth to Venus and back, would be about 200 microseconds more than
it would if the sun was not present. Later on, using the MIT Haystack
radar antenna, the experiment was repeated, matching Shapiro's
predicted amount of time delay. The experiments have been repeated many
times since, with increasing accuracy. This experiment had for the
first time shown that the constants like c and G, assumed constants in
Einstein's SR theory suffered local (or regional) in the proximity of
massive bodies like the sun. Faced with this evidence, Einstein stated:
"In the second place our result shows that, according to the general
theory of relativity, the law of the constancy of the velocity of light
in vacuo, which constitutes one of the two fundamental assumptions in
the special theory of relativity and to which we have already
frequently referred, cannot claim any unlimited validity. A curvature
of rays of light can only take place when the velocity of propagation
of light varies with position..."

Pentcho Valev

It seems you are confusing speed with velocity. Velocity is both speed
AND direction.
According to my understanding,

http://farside.ph.utexas.edu/teaching.html
http://web.mit.edu/8.02t/www/802TEAL...ight/index.htm
http://nobelprize.org/physics/articl...ong/index.html

Sue...

when light is refracted,
whether by matter or gravity, it's velocity changes due to a change of
direction and not a change of speed. In other words, the "photons" are
increasingly accelerated as refractive index increases.

Pentcho Valev wrote:

In 1964 Einsteinians discovered that Einstein's inconsistency, like any
other inconsistency, is based on two incompatible principles: the
principle of invariability of the speed of light and the principle of
variability of the speed of light. They called the discovery "a
previously forgotten facet of general relativity theory" and made use
of it in the sense of extracting money from it:

http://www.blazelabs.com/f-g-gcont.asp :
"The first confirmation of a long range variation in the speed of light
travelling in space came in 1964. Irwin Shapiro, it seems, was the
first to make use of a previously forgotten facet of general relativity
theory -- that the speed of light is reduced when it passes through a
gravitational field. He had proposed an observational test to check his
prediction: bounce radar beams off the surface of Venus and Mercury,
and measure the round trip travel time. When the Earth, Sun, and Venus
are most favorably aligned, Shapiro showed that the expected time
delay, due to the presence of the Sun, of a radar signal traveling from
the Earth to Venus and back, would be about 200 microseconds more than
it would if the sun was not present. Later on, using the MIT Haystack
radar antenna, the experiment was repeated, matching Shapiro's
predicted amount of time delay. The experiments have been repeated many
times since, with increasing accuracy. This experiment had for the
first time shown that the constants like c and G, assumed constants in
Einstein's SR theory suffered local (or regional) in the proximity of
massive bodies like the sun. Faced with this evidence, Einstein stated:
"In the second place our result shows that, according to the general
theory of relativity, the law of the constancy of the velocity of light
in vacuo, which constitutes one of the two fundamental assumptions in
the special theory of relativity and to which we have already
frequently referred, cannot claim any unlimited validity. A curvature
of rays of light can only take place when the velocity of propagation
of light varies with position..."

Pentcho Valev

Pentcho Valev wrote:
In 1964 Einsteinians discovered that Einstein's inconsistency, like any
other inconsistency, is based on two incompatible principles: the
principle of invariability of the speed of light and the principle of
variability of the speed of light. They called the discovery "a
previously forgotten facet of general relativity theory" and made use
of it in the sense of extracting money from it:

The speed of light was always constant in the special theory. The
coordinate speed of light at a distance was never required to be
constant by the general theory.

Your post is pointless.

--
Jan Bielawski

On Dec 27, 7:02 am, wrote:
Pentcho Valev wrote:

http://www.blazelabs.com/f-g-gcont.asp:
"The first confirmation of a long range variation in the speed of light
travelling in space came in 1964. Irwin Shapiro, it seems, was the
first to make use of a previously forgotten facet of general relativity
theory -- that the speed of light is reduced when it passes through a
gravitational field. He had proposed an observational test to check his
prediction: bounce radar beams off the surface of Venus and Mercury,
and measure the round trip travel time. When the Earth, Sun, and Venus
are most favorably aligned, Shapiro showed that the expected time
delay, due to the presence of the Sun, of a radar signal traveling from
the Earth to Venus and back, would be about 200 microseconds more than
it would if the sun was not present. Later on, using the MIT Haystack
radar antenna, the experiment was repeated, matching Shapiro's
predicted amount of time delay. The experiments have been repeated many
times since, with increasing accuracy. This experiment had for the
first time shown that the constants like c and G, assumed constants in
Einstein's SR theory suffered local (or regional) in the proximity of
massive bodies like the sun. Faced with this evidence, Einstein stated:
"In the second place our result shows that, according to the general
theory of relativity, the law of the constancy of the velocity of light
in vacuo, which constitutes one of the two fundamental assumptions in
the special theory of relativity and to which we have already
frequently referred, cannot claim any unlimited validity. A curvature
of rays of light can only take place when the velocity of propagation
of light varies with position..."

Shapiro's measurement implies the very distance from his detector to
the surface of Venus must be accurately measured to within a fraction
of the (200uSec / 2) of the distance light travels (under 30km). I
would like to know how this accuracy is achieved.

It seems you are confusing speed with velocity. Velocity is both speed
AND direction. According to my understanding, when light is refracted,
whether by matter or gravity, it's velocity changes due to a change of
direction and not a change of speed. In other words, the "photons" are
increasingly accelerated as refractive index increases.

It is irrelevant if velocity of speed in this case. With the way GR is
formulated from the metric in general, Christoffel symbols of the 2nd
kind, Riemann curvature tensor, Ricci curvature tensor, the
Einstein-Hilbert action, the Einstein-Hilbert Lagrangian, and the
Einstein field equations to the Schwarzschild metric, speed of light
must be constant or observer independent at every single step of
evolvement. Bending of photon is not an effect of refraction or the
effect of gravitational time dilation. It is strictly a curvature in
space.

Shapiro's experiment does not support bending of photons. If valid,
it only proves a gravitational time dilation and not lower speed of
light under stronger gravitation.

wrote:
Pentcho Valev wrote:
In 1964 Einsteinians discovered that Einstein's inconsistency, like any
other inconsistency, is based on two incompatible principles: the
principle of invariability of the speed of light and the principle of
variability of the speed of light. They called the discovery "a
previously forgotten facet of general relativity theory" and made use
of it in the sense of extracting money from it:

http://www.blazelabs.com/f-g-gcont.asp :
"The first confirmation of a long range variation in the speed of light
travelling in space came in 1964. Irwin Shapiro, it seems, was the
first to make use of a previously forgotten facet of general relativity
theory -- that the speed of light is reduced when it passes through a
gravitational field. He had proposed an observational test to check his
prediction: bounce radar beams off the surface of Venus and Mercury,
and measure the round trip travel time. When the Earth, Sun, and Venus
are most favorably aligned, Shapiro showed that the expected time
delay, due to the presence of the Sun, of a radar signal traveling from
the Earth to Venus and back, would be about 200 microseconds more than
it would if the sun was not present. Later on, using the MIT Haystack
radar antenna, the experiment was repeated, matching Shapiro's
predicted amount of time delay. The experiments have been repeated many
times since, with increasing accuracy. This experiment had for the
first time shown that the constants like c and G, assumed constants in
Einstein's SR theory suffered local (or regional) in the proximity of
massive bodies like the sun. Faced with this evidence, Einstein stated:
"In the second place our result shows that, according to the general
theory of relativity, the law of the constancy of the velocity of light
in vacuo, which constitutes one of the two fundamental assumptions in
the special theory of relativity and to which we have already
frequently referred, cannot claim any unlimited validity. A curvature
of rays of light can only take place when the velocity of propagation
of light varies with position..."

Pentcho Valev

It seems you are confusing speed with velocity. Velocity is both speed
AND direction. According to my understanding, when light is refracted,
whether by matter or gravity, it's velocity changes due to a change of
direction and not a change of speed. In other words, the "photons" are
increasingly accelerated as refractive index increases.

In general relativity even _speed_ measured at a distance can differ
from c. This is standard, it happens even in special relativity if one
uses curvilinear coordinates. In GR in the presence of nonzero
curvature one cannot construct non-curvilinear coordinates, hence the
non-c speed.

Why Pentcho makes such a big deal of this trivial observation I'll let
his psychiatrist guess.

--
Jan Bielawski

"Sue..." wrote in message ups.com...
| According to my understanding,
[...]

HAHAHAHA!!

[...]

I've never seen an aether, Dennis. Have you?

http://tinyurl.com/yndvwx

http://www.quackwatch.org/01Quackery...cs/pseudo.html


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pf3z935R37E

On 27 Dec 2006 15:20:37 -0800, "JanPB" wrote:

wrote:
Pentcho Valev wrote:
In 1964 Einsteinians discovered that Einstein's inconsistency, like any
other inconsistency, is based on two incompatible principles: the
principle of invariability of the speed of light and the principle of
variability of the speed of light. They called the discovery "a
previously forgotten facet of general relativity theory" and made use
of it in the sense of extracting money from it:

http://www.blazelabs.com/f-g-gcont.asp :
"The first confirmation of a long range variation in the speed of light
travelling in space came in 1964. Irwin Shapiro, it seems, was the
first to make use of a previously forgotten facet of general relativity
theory -- that the speed of light is reduced when it passes through a
gravitational field. He had proposed an observational test to check his
prediction: bounce radar beams off the surface of Venus and Mercury,
and measure the round trip travel time. When the Earth, Sun, and Venus
are most favorably aligned, Shapiro showed that the expected time
delay, due to the presence of the Sun, of a radar signal traveling from
the Earth to Venus and back, would be about 200 microseconds more than
it would if the sun was not present. Later on, using the MIT Haystack
radar antenna, the experiment was repeated, matching Shapiro's
predicted amount of time delay. The experiments have been repeated many
times since, with increasing accuracy. This experiment had for the
first time shown that the constants like c and G, assumed constants in
Einstein's SR theory suffered local (or regional) in the proximity of
massive bodies like the sun. Faced with this evidence, Einstein stated:
"In the second place our result shows that, according to the general
theory of relativity, the law of the constancy of the velocity of light
in vacuo, which constitutes one of the two fundamental assumptions in
the special theory of relativity and to which we have already
frequently referred, cannot claim any unlimited validity. A curvature
of rays of light can only take place when the velocity of propagation
of light varies with position..."

Pentcho Valev

It seems you are confusing speed with velocity. Velocity is both speed
AND direction. According to my understanding, when light is refracted,
whether by matter or gravity, it's velocity changes due to a change of
direction and not a change of speed. In other words, the "photons" are
increasingly accelerated as refractive index increases.

In general relativity even _speed_ measured at a distance can differ
from c. This is standard, it happens even in special relativity if one
uses curvilinear coordinates. In GR in the presence of nonzero
curvature one cannot construct non-curvilinear coordinates, hence the
non-c speed.

Why Pentcho makes such a big deal of this trivial observation I'll let
his psychiatrist guess.

It's not at all trivial. Change in the speed of light is not standard
fare in GR. You never hear it mentioned. At Shapiro's time they tried
to prove it by the light-bending mechanism which would only have a
vanishing efficiency in slowing down the light.

Even in the case of Brault's redshift test, he measured the increase
in velocity of light from the Sun as 635 m/s, and the GR justification
was the usual time dilation equation, multiplied by c.

This was lamely supported in MTL's Gravitation as "This is just the
redshift to be expected if the local Lorentz frames, at each point
along the photon trajectory, fall in step with free-falling test
bodies.....".

This is one of the finest example of overt casuistry, clearly
indicating that they don't know what was happening-whether a
frequency change, a wavelength change or perhaps they were too shy to
state that the speed of light increases out of a gravity well.

John Polasek

John C. Polasek wrote:
On 27 Dec 2006 15:20:37 -0800, "JanPB" wrote:

wrote:
Pentcho Valev wrote:
In 1964 Einsteinians discovered that Einstein's inconsistency, like any
other inconsistency, is based on two incompatible principles: the
principle of invariability of the speed of light and the principle of
variability of the speed of light. They called the discovery "a
previously forgotten facet of general relativity theory" and made use
of it in the sense of extracting money from it:

http://www.blazelabs.com/f-g-gcont.asp :
"The first confirmation of a long range variation in the speed of light
travelling in space came in 1964. Irwin Shapiro, it seems, was the
first to make use of a previously forgotten facet of general relativity
theory -- that the speed of light is reduced when it passes through a
gravitational field. He had proposed an observational test to check his
prediction: bounce radar beams off the surface of Venus and Mercury,
and measure the round trip travel time. When the Earth, Sun, and Venus
are most favorably aligned, Shapiro showed that the expected time
delay, due to the presence of the Sun, of a radar signal traveling from
the Earth to Venus and back, would be about 200 microseconds more than
it would if the sun was not present. Later on, using the MIT Haystack
radar antenna, the experiment was repeated, matching Shapiro's
predicted amount of time delay. The experiments have been repeated many
times since, with increasing accuracy. This experiment had for the
first time shown that the constants like c and G, assumed constants in
Einstein's SR theory suffered local (or regional) in the proximity of
massive bodies like the sun. Faced with this evidence, Einstein stated:
"In the second place our result shows that, according to the general
theory of relativity, the law of the constancy of the velocity of light
in vacuo, which constitutes one of the two fundamental assumptions in
the special theory of relativity and to which we have already
frequently referred, cannot claim any unlimited validity. A curvature
of rays of light can only take place when the velocity of propagation
of light varies with position..."

Pentcho Valev

It seems you are confusing speed with velocity. Velocity is both speed
AND direction. According to my understanding, when light is refracted,
whether by matter or gravity, it's velocity changes due to a change of
direction and not a change of speed. In other words, the "photons" are
increasingly accelerated as refractive index increases.

In general relativity even _speed_ measured at a distance can differ
from c. This is standard, it happens even in special relativity if one
uses curvilinear coordinates. In GR in the presence of nonzero
curvature one cannot construct non-curvilinear coordinates, hence the
non-c speed.

Why Pentcho makes such a big deal of this trivial observation I'll let
his psychiatrist guess.

It's not at all trivial. Change in the speed of light is not standard
fare in GR. You never hear it mentioned.

Maybe I'm missing something obvious but if the curvature is nonzero
then one cannot have a Lorentz-orthogonal coordinate system of finite
extent. One can only do it infinitesimally (at a point). So at areas
away from that point the speed of light won't necessarily be c
according to that coordinate system. Far from being "never mentioned",
it's basic differential geometry.

--
Jan Bielawski