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| Tags: absolute, effect, measure, sagnac, using, velocity |
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#1
November 29th 06
posted to sci.physics.relativity
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Using the Sagnac Effect to measure Absolute Velocity
If it is possible to measure the Sagnac effect for the closed path of a light beam, then it should also be possible to measure the effect for an arbitrary segment of the path. The paper below describes an experiment to do just that. It says: "We measured the "Sagnac effect" for light beams proceeding along a straight line where the effect is proportional to the linear rotational velocity". But for a laboratory rotating about an earth, rotating about a sun, rotating about a galaxy, rotating about a cluster of galaxies, rotating about ... etc. etc, measurement of the "linear rotation velocity" would seem equivalent to measurement of "absolute velocity". So ultimately that is what they claim. Here is a link to the paper. Measurement of the Laboratory's Absolute Velocity General Relativity and Gravitation, Vol 12, No 1, 1980 http://www.helical-structures.org/se...es_abs_vel.pdf I found it very interesting. Regards, Surfer 
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#2
November 29th 06
posted to sci.physics.relativity
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Using the Sagnac Effect to measure Absolute Velocity
Surfer wrote:
If it is possible to measure the Sagnac effect for the closed path of a light beam, then it should also be possible to measure the effect for an arbitrary segment of the path. The two ends of a closed path are the same point, so you only need one clock. The ends of a segment of the path are different points, so you need two clocks, and have to decide how to synchronize them. This makes it a very different experiment, and it probably shouldn't be called "Sagnac" any more. Measurement of the Laboratory's Absolute Velocity General Relativity and Gravitation, Vol 12, No 1, 1980 http://www.helical-structures.org/se...es_abs_vel.pdf It's hard to know what to say about this. Special relativity clearly predicts a null result for this experiment (i.e. no velocity dependence). The author (Stefan Marinov) claims to obtain a non-null result. Given the lack of supporting evidence, it's hard to take that claim seriously. By 1996 Marinov was claiming to have falsified not only special relativity, but also just about everything else, including many of the pillars of Newtonian physics: http://itis.volta.alessandria.it/epi.../ep6-marin.htm So he appears to be a garden-variety crackpot, albeit an unusually ambitious one. The only part I don't understand is that he managed to get his paper published in _General Relativity and Gravitation_, which I thought was a respectable journal. -- Ben
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#3
November 29th 06
posted to sci.physics.relativity
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Using the Sagnac Effect to measure Absolute Velocity
Ben Rudiak-Gould wrote:
Surfer wrote: If it is possible to measure the Sagnac effect for the closed path of a light beam, then it should also be possible to measure the effect for an arbitrary segment of the path. The two ends of a closed path are the same point, so you only need one clock. The ends of a segment of the path are different points, so you need two clocks, and have to decide how to synchronize them. This makes it a very different experiment, and it probably shouldn't be called "Sagnac" any more. Measurement of the Laboratory's Absolute Velocity General Relativity and Gravitation, Vol 12, No 1, 1980 http://www.helical-structures.org/se...es_abs_vel.pdf It's hard to know what to say about this. Special relativity clearly predicts a null result for this experiment (i.e. no velocity dependence). The author (Stefan Marinov) claims to obtain a non-null result. Given the lack of supporting evidence, it's hard to take that claim seriously. By 1996 Marinov was claiming to have falsified not only special relativity, but also just about everything else, including many of the pillars of Newtonian physics: http://itis.volta.alessandria.it/epi.../ep6-marin.htm So he appears to be a garden-variety crackpot, albeit an unusually ambitious one. The only part I don't understand is that he managed to get his paper published in _General Relativity and Gravitation_, which I thought was a respectable journal. -- Ben Inertial induction of the dielectrics seems to play a large role in Sagnac devices yet Special Relativity is formulated to assume no material structures. I seem to recall reading about some extensive work with vacuum quality at the Christchurch facility. The FOG typically shows a higher resolution than a ring laser gyroscope but also a higher drift and worse scale factor performance. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fiber_Optic_Gyros http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inertial_space Anyway... Where matter is the mechanism, SR gives us nonsense so it is not hard to construct experiments where the definition of "vacuum" is what is actually being tested. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wave_impedance http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Free_space http://www.conformity.com/0102reflections.html The experimentimental results of: http://www.helical-structures.org/se...es_abs_vel.pdf ....seem plausible but I can't agree with the interpretation. Gravity/inertia interacts with mass, not the space between masses so the 'absolute ether' mentioned seems implausible. Sue...
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#4
November 29th 06
posted to sci.physics.relativity
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Using the Sagnac Effect to measure Absolute Velocity
I see all the references are Marinov, none are Sagnac.
"Surfer" wrote in message ... | | If it is possible to measure the Sagnac effect for the closed path of | a light beam, then it should also be possible to measure the effect | for an arbitrary segment of the path. | | The paper below describes an experiment to do just that. | | It says: | | "We measured the "Sagnac effect" for light beams proceeding | along a straight line where the effect is proportional to the | linear rotational velocity". | | But for a laboratory rotating about an earth, rotating about a sun, | rotating about a galaxy, rotating about a cluster of galaxies, | rotating about ... etc. etc, measurement of the "linear rotation | velocity" would seem equivalent to measurement of "absolute velocity". | | So ultimately that is what they claim. | Here is a link to the paper. | | Measurement of the Laboratory's Absolute Velocity | General Relativity and Gravitation, Vol 12, No 1, 1980 | http://www.helical-structures.org/se...es_abs_vel.pdf | | I found it very interesting. | | Regards, | Surfer | | | | |
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#5
November 29th 06
posted to sci.physics.relativity
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Using the Sagnac Effect to measure Absolute Velocity
"Sue..." wrote in message oups.com... | | Inertial induction of the dielectrics seems to play a large role | in Sagnac devices ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ http://www.quackwatch.org/01Quackery...cs/pseudo.html http://www.quackwatch.org/01Quackery...cs/pseudo.html http://www.quackwatch.org/01Quackery...cs/pseudo.html http://www.quackwatch.org/01Quackery...cs/pseudo.html http://www.quackwatch.org/01Quackery...cs/pseudo.html http://www.quackwatch.org/01Quackery...cs/pseudo.html http://www.quackwatch.org/01Quackery...cs/pseudo.html http://www.quackwatch.org/01Quackery...cs/pseudo.html http://www.quackwatch.org/01Quackery...cs/pseudo.html http://www.quackwatch.org/01Quackery...cs/pseudo.html
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#6
November 29th 06
posted to sci.physics.relativity
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Using the Sagnac Effect to measure Absolute Velocity
Sorcerer wrote: "Sue..." wrote in message oups.com... | | Inertial induction of the dielectrics seems to play a large role | in Sagnac devices ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ http://www.quackwatch.org/01Quackery...cs/pseudo.html http://www.quackwatch.org/01Quackery...cs/pseudo.html http://www.quackwatch.org/01Quackery...cs/pseudo.html http://www.quackwatch.org/01Quackery...cs/pseudo.html http://www.quackwatch.org/01Quackery...cs/pseudo.html http://www.quackwatch.org/01Quackery...cs/pseudo.html http://www.quackwatch.org/01Quackery...cs/pseudo.html http://www.quackwatch.org/01Quackery...cs/pseudo.html http://www.quackwatch.org/01Quackery...cs/pseudo.html http://www.quackwatch.org/01Quackery...cs/pseudo.html Manufacturers: Northrop Grumman Honeywell Athena Technologies iXSea., France iMAR Navigation GmbH, Germany Fibersense Inc., USA TAMAM LTD, Israel KVH, USA Retrieved from "http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fibre_optic_gyroscope" Sue...
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#8
November 29th 06
posted to sci.physics.relativity
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Using the Sagnac Effect to measure Absolute Velocity
Sorcerer wrote: [...] Fibre optics were unknown to Georges Marc Marie Sagnac in 1913. http://www.wundersamessammelsurium.d...nac/index.html http://www.wundersamessammelsurium.d...agnac_1412.png What is your point? Germans are better writers or you are a better spammer than Van der Pee Pee ? Sue... P.S. Go take your meds. or stop taking your meds or something different. [..]
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#9
November 29th 06
posted to sci.physics.relativity
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Using the Sagnac Effect to measure Absolute Velocity
"Sue..." wrote in message oups.com... [...] | What is your point? Germans are better writers or you are a | better spammer than Van der Pee Pee ? http://www.quackwatch.org/01Quackery...cs/pseudo.html You cited it, you read it. You are a better spammer than Van der Pee Pee. "Inertial induction of the dielectrics seems to play a large role in Sagnac devices " - snake oil. My point is: "you are an ignorant SNIPPING LIAR!" and I've caught you at it. That's my point.
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#10
November 29th 06
posted to sci.physics.relativity
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Using the Sagnac Effect to measure Absolute Velocity
Sorcerer wrote: "Sue..." wrote in message oups.com... [...] | What is your point? Germans are better writers or you are a | better spammer than Van der Pee Pee ? http://www.quackwatch.org/01Quackery...cs/pseudo.html You cited it, you read it. You are a better spammer than Van der Pee Pee. "Inertial induction of the dielectrics seems to play a large role in Sagnac devices " - snake oil. My point is: "you are an ignorant SNIPPING LIAR!" and I've caught you at it. That's my point. Harumph! I challenge you to flintlocks at twenty paces. I'll couple inertially with projectiles of the same glass used in fiber optic gyros. You can couple inertially with projectiles comprised of vacuum.  )Sue...
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