On Sat, 14 Oct 2006 16:25:42 GMT, "Sorcerer"
wrote:


"THE_ONE" wrote in message
oups.com...
|
| Sorcerer wrote:
| "Joe Jakarta" wrote in message
| oups.com...
| | but when are we going to discover something new?
|
| "We"?
| YOU are not going to discover anything, YOU are a dumb****.
|
| Androcles
|
| Is Sorcerer saying he is a " Smart**** " ?
|
| It's all relative, isn't it ?

Your ignorant one-line trite comments are why you'll
never discover anything either.

*Two* lines. Learn to count.

Tom Roberts wrote:
most approaches to quantum
gravity imply that the Planck scale is somehow "special", and as that is
a length it follows that in relativity the phenomena at this scale are
coordinate dependent.

There's no violation of Lorentz invariance at the Planck scale in either
string theory or loop quantum gravity, even though the Planck scale is in
some sense special in both.

-- Ben

Ben Newsam wrote:

"Sorcerer" wrote:

"THE_ONE" wrote:

| Is Sorcerer saying he is a " Smart**** " ?

| It's all relative, isn't it ?

Your ignorant one-line trite comments are why you'll
never discover anything either.


*Two* lines. Learn to count.


He was referring to two one-line trite comments. Note the Plural there.

There wasn't any two-line trite comment.

Barry

Joe Jakarta wrote:
but when are we going to discover something new?

Well, let's see:
Bose-Einstein condensates
Massive neutrinos
CP violation
Accelerating expansion of the universe
Dark matter
Cosmic inflation
Supersymmetry (on the cusp)
Sonoluminescence
Quantum entanglement and quantum computing
Three fermion families
Quark-gluon plasma
Why bicycles are stable
Gamma ray bursts

What did you have in mind?

PD

"Eric Gisse" wrote in message
oups.com...

Tom Roberts wrote:
Tom Roberts wrote:
Joe Jakarta wrote:
but when are we going to discover something new?

When experiments discover something that is inconsistent with
relativity. Or when theorists develop a context that is both
interesting
and inconsistent with relativity.

Interestingly, the latter has happened: [...]

I forgot to mention that the former may also be happening: The anomalous
acceleration of the Pioneer (and other) spacecraft, and the observations
of dark energy and dark matter might someday be solid enough to be
considered refutations of GR.

Dark matter seems to be actual matter judging from recent observations.
That being said, there is new physics hiding in there one way or
another.

If it is actual matter, there is something way cool coming down the
tubes for particle physics. If it isn't actual matter, then somehow we
were led majorly astray by lensing, which will show us some new physics
and will majorly break GR.

However, I don't like what is currently happening with the Pioneer
probes - as far as I know, nobody has actually ruled out a slight
asymmetry in the way waste heat is being radiated.

Certainly that is one possible explanation - last I heard gas leaks was the
favored one.

I think a new probe
needs to be sent out just for this, or carefully design the next outer
solar system probe so that a study of the supposed phenomenon can
happen.

Sure- if we had unlimited money for scientific investigation. But since we
must prioritize are you sure that is the best way to get bang for your buck?
Actually on second thought there is no real way to tell so I guess it is as
good a way to spend money as any other.

Thanks
Bill


Mabey instead, we can simply watch the mission that is currently flying
out to Pluto. It will be in Jupiter space in about 5 months and Pluto
space in about 8 years. I would be extremely surprised if mission
scientists haven't made studying the Pioneer anomaly a side mission for
the New Horizons [Why the **** did they call it THAT?] probe.



Tom Roberts

"Ben Newsam" wrote in message
...
| On Sat, 14 Oct 2006 16:25:42 GMT, "Sorcerer"
| wrote:
|
|
| "THE_ONE" wrote in message
| oups.com...
| |
| | Sorcerer wrote:
| | "Joe Jakarta" wrote in message
| | oups.com...
| | | but when are we going to discover something new?
| |
| | "We"?
| | YOU are not going to discover anything, YOU are a dumb****.
| |
| | Androcles
| |
| | Is Sorcerer saying he is a " Smart**** " ?
| |
| | It's all relative, isn't it ?
|
| Your ignorant one-line trite comments are why you'll
| never discover anything either.
|
| *Two*
|
| lines.
|
| Learn
|
| to
|
| count.

Ok, nine lines. :-)

Bill Hobba wrote:
"Eric Gisse" wrote in message
oups.com...
However, I don't like what is currently happening with the Pioneer
probes - as far as I know, nobody has actually ruled out a slight
asymmetry in the way waste heat is being radiated.

Certainly that is one possible explanation - last I heard gas leaks was the
favored one.

As I understand it, there are basically two camps: one says "yes there
are mundane forces on the spacecraft, but we have enumerated them all
and they do not explain the anomaly"; the other says "your enumeration
may not be complete, and the errorbars on the effects you have
identified are large enough to include the anomaly".

In addition to gas leaks, one must include asymmetric EM radiation,
especially heat. I believe that other effects, such as solar radiation
and gas drag, are far too small to be important. But I have not studied
this in detail....


I think a new probe
needs to be sent out just for this, or carefully design the next outer
solar system probe so that a study of the supposed phenomenon can
happen.

Sure- if we had unlimited money for scientific investigation. But since we
must prioritize are you sure that is the best way to get bang for your buck?
Actually on second thought there is no real way to tell so I guess it is as
good a way to spend money as any other.

IMHO compared to dark energy and dark matter, this anomaly currently has
the largest chance of refuting GR. So I would really like to see a good,
solid test.


Tom Roberts

Tom Roberts wrote:
Bill Hobba wrote:
"Eric Gisse" wrote in message
oups.com...
However, I don't like what is currently happening with the Pioneer
probes - as far as I know, nobody has actually ruled out a slight
asymmetry in the way waste heat is being radiated.

Certainly that is one possible explanation - last I heard gas leaks was the
favored one.

As I understand it, there are basically two camps: one says "yes there
are mundane forces on the spacecraft, but we have enumerated them all
and they do not explain the anomaly"; the other says "your enumeration
may not be complete, and the errorbars on the effects you have
identified are large enough to include the anomaly".

In addition to gas leaks, one must include asymmetric EM radiation,
especially heat. I believe that other effects, such as solar radiation
and gas drag, are far too small to be important. But I have not studied
this in detail....


I think a new probe
needs to be sent out just for this, or carefully design the next outer
solar system probe so that a study of the supposed phenomenon can
happen.

Sure- if we had unlimited money for scientific investigation. But since we
must prioritize are you sure that is the best way to get bang for your buck?
Actually on second thought there is no real way to tell so I guess it is as
good a way to spend money as any other.

IMHO compared to dark energy and dark matter, this anomaly currently has
the largest chance of refuting GR. So I would really like to see a good,
solid test.

johnreed writes Howdy Tom. I have a minute here and want to ask a
question. Can we determine precisely the direction pioneer is taking,
with respect to the sun? If it is engaged in a direction change
ultimately to return to SS orbit, what would the first indication be to
our measurement devices? Thanks. Have a good time. johnreed

Tom Roberts

johnlawrencereedjr wrote:
johnreed writes Howdy Tom. I have a minute here and want to ask a
question. Can we determine precisely the direction pioneer is taking,
with respect to the sun? If it is engaged in a direction change
ultimately to return to SS orbit, what would the first indication be to
our measurement devices?

I don't know enough about this to answer. Try asking in sci.astro.research.


Tom Roberts

Tom Roberts wrote:
johnlawrencereedjr wrote:
johnreed writes Howdy Tom. I have a minute here and want to ask a
question. Can we determine precisely the direction pioneer is taking,
with respect to the sun? If it is engaged in a direction change
ultimately to return to SS orbit, what would the first indication be to
our measurement devices?

I don't know enough about this to answer. Try asking in sci.astro.research.


Tom Roberts

Hello Tom
I like that answer. Its about the way I feel most all the time. Thanks
Tom. Have a good time.
johnreed