Rudolf Drabek wrote:
Bill Hobba schrieb:

"Rudolf Drabek" wrote in message
ups.com...
c with the value of +-300000 km/s is the physically infinite value for
speed.

That is not what SR says. It says it is the maximum speed information can
be sent. Learn what something actually says before criticizing it.
I do not see where I have criticized anything.
One thing I've learned, namely to be very sensible and careful with the
wording.
With the same meaning I say therfo
c with the value of +-300000 km/s *behaves* like an infinite value for
light.
Surprisingly for me, a not infinite value can behave as an infinite
one.
That's the essence of my finding.
Sorry for any inconv., it's not my native language.
Rudi

Rest snipped.

Bill

this is very simple, it falls out from the relativistic speed addition:

u'=(u+v)/(1+(uv/c^2))

If u=c then u'=c. Very simple.

schrieb:

Rudolf Drabek wrote:
Bill Hobba schrieb:

"Rudolf Drabek" wrote in message
ups.com...
c with the value of +-300000 km/s is the physically infinite value for
speed.

That is not what SR says. It says it is the maximum speed information can
be sent. Learn what something actually says before criticizing it.
I do not see where I have criticized anything.
One thing I've learned, namely to be very sensible and careful with the
wording.
With the same meaning I say therfo
c with the value of +-300000 km/s *behaves* like an infinite value for
light.
Surprisingly for me, a not infinite value can behave as an infinite
one.
That's the essence of my finding.
Sorry for any inconv., it's not my native language.
Rudi

Rest snipped.

Bill

| this is very simple, it falls out from the relativistic speed
addition:
|
| u'=(u+v)/(1+(uv/c^2))
|
| If u=c then u'=c. Very simple.

You have not catched the point.
That what I discovered -may be only acceptable for me- is an
explanation *why* c is the barrier.
c behaves as an infinite value not beeing an infinite value in math.
sense.
For sure the formula gives the same result, but is not an explanation
of the weird behaviour of light
that independent of rel. motion between two locations incoming light is
received always with c at both.
De Sitter has shown this first, but in this group we have a lot of
contributors that do not accept this.
Thank's Rudi

"Rudolf Drabek" wrote in message ups.com...

Tom Roberts schrieb:

Rudolf Drabek wrote:
c with the value of +-300000 km/s is the physically infinite value for
speed.

The very bad PUN you use on the word "infinite" is neither helpful nor
useful. Use words with their normal meanings or you risk serious
misunderstandings (as evidenced around here daily).

I said and mean "physically infinite".
What I want to express is, that adding a velocity to the "physically
infinite value of c" the sum remains the same, as in math .

But velocities are not added at all.
They are sort of *combined* in the following sense
A measures B to have velocity u.
B measures C to have velocity v
So A will measure C to have velocity
( u + v ) / ( 1 + u v/c^2 )
This is not addition.
Only in the limit for very small u and v it looks like
addition, and in Galilean relativity we deal with small
velocities, so ...

This helped me to understand the weird behaviour of light to be emitted
and received with c even if the receiver is moving with respect to the
emitter.
So the value of 300000 km/s which is not an infinite one, behaves like
an infinite value for light.
Therefore I said that, some lines above.
My surprise of my finding is, that c behaves like an infinite value. I
never heard/read this to date.

I heard it quite a few times.
Even Einstein said it in the very beginning:
http://www.fourmilab.ch/etexts/einstein/specrel/www/
| For velocities greater than that of light our deliberations
| become meaningless; we shall, however, find in what follows,
| that the velocity of light in our theory plays the part,
| physically, of an infinitely great velocity.

Cheers,
Dirk Vdm

"Rudolf Drabek" schrieb im Newsbeitrag
ups.com...

......
......
So the value of 300000 km/s which is not an infinite one, behaves like
an infinite value for light.
Therefore I said that, some lines above.
My surprise of my finding is, that c behaves like an infinite value. I
never heard/read this to date.

You find it in Einsteins famous paper of 1905 (§4, Seite 903):

http://www.pro-physik.de/Phy/pdfs/ger_890_921.pdf


Homo Lykos

"Dirk Van de moortel" wrote
in message ...
|
| "Rudolf Drabek" wrote in message
ups.com...
|
| Tom Roberts schrieb:
|
| Rudolf Drabek wrote:
| c with the value of +-300000 km/s is the physically infinite value
for
| speed.
|
| The very bad PUN you use on the word "infinite" is neither helpful nor
| useful. Use words with their normal meanings or you risk serious
| misunderstandings (as evidenced around here daily).
|
| I said and mean "physically infinite".
| What I want to express is, that adding a velocity to the "physically
| infinite value of c" the sum remains the same, as in math .
|
| But velocities are not added at all.

HAHAHAHA!
"But the ray moves relatively to the initial point of k, when measured in
the stationary system, with the velocity c-v" - The Lord Einstein.
You spoke blasphemy, Dork. Say three Hail Aethers.

Hail Aether,
Full of Light,
Einstein is with thee.
Blessed art thou among absolute frames of reference,
and blessed is the fruit of thy tomb, Lorentz Transform.
Holy Aether,
Daughter of Lunacy,
prey on us morons now,
and at the dilated hour of death.

Sorcerer wrote:
"Dirk Van de moortel" wrote
in message ...
|
| "Rudolf Drabek" wrote in message
ups.com...
|
| Tom Roberts schrieb:
|
| Rudolf Drabek wrote:
| c with the value of +-300000 km/s is the physically infinite value
for
| speed.
|
| The very bad PUN you use on the word "infinite" is neither helpful nor
| useful. Use words with their normal meanings or you risk serious
| misunderstandings (as evidenced around here daily).
|
| I said and mean "physically infinite".
| What I want to express is, that adding a velocity to the "physically
| infinite value of c" the sum remains the same, as in math .
|
| But velocities are not added at all.

HAHAHAHA!
"But the ray moves relatively to the initial point of k, when measured in
the stationary system, with the velocity c-v" - The Lord Einstein.
You spoke blasphemy, Dork. Say three Hail Aethers.

Hail Aether,
Full of Light,
Einstein is with thee.
Blessed art thou among absolute frames of reference,
and blessed is the fruit of thy tomb, Lorentz Transform.
Holy Aether,
Daughter of Lunacy,
prey on us morons now,
and at the dilated hour of death.

no

"Bluewin" wrote in message
...
| "Rudolf Drabek" schrieb im Newsbeitrag
| ups.com...
|
| .....
| .....
| So the value of 300000 km/s which is not an infinite one, behaves like
| an infinite value for light.
| Therefore I said that, some lines above.
| My surprise of my finding is, that c behaves like an infinite value. I
| never heard/read this to date.
|
| You find it in Einsteins famous paper of 1905 (§4, Seite 903):
|
| http://www.pro-physik.de/Phy/pdfs/ger_890_921.pdf

That sucks, this is the English version.
http://www.fourmilab.ch/etexts/einstein/specrel/www/

"we shall, however, find in what follows, that the velocity of light in our
theory plays the part, physically, of an infinitely great velocity."

In kraut:
http://www.physics.utoledo.edu/~ljc/speciaal.html

"wir werden übrigens in den folgenden Betrachtungen finden, daß die
Lichtgeschwindigkeit in unserer Theorie physiaklisch die Rolle der unendlich
großen Geschwindigkeit spielt. "


" der unendlich großen Geschwindigkeit " --- HAHAHA

(English translation --- HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA! )

Androcles

"Rudolf Drabek" wrote in message
ps.com...
Bill Hobba schrieb:

"Rudolf Drabek" wrote in message
ups.com...
c with the value of +-300000 km/s is the physically infinite value for
speed.

That is not what SR says. It says it is the maximum speed information
can
be sent. Learn what something actually says before criticizing it.
I do not see where I have criticized anything.

Fair enough - change that to reformulate it.

One thing I've learned, namely to be very sensible and careful with the
wording.

That seems to be your problem - what is careful to you is either wrong or
nonsense to those that have studied the subject.

Bill

With the same meaning I say therfo
c with the value of +-300000 km/s *behaves* like an infinite value for
light.
Surprisingly for me, a not infinite value can behave as an infinite
one.
That's the essence of my finding.
Sorry for any inconv., it's not my native language.
Rudi

Rest snipped.

Bill

Rudolf Drabek wrote:
Tom Roberts schrieb:
Rudolf Drabek wrote:
c with the value of +-300000 km/s is the physically infinite value for
speed.
The very bad PUN you use on the word "infinite" is neither helpful nor
useful. Use words with their normal meanings or you risk serious
misunderstandings (as evidenced around here daily).
I said and mean "physically infinite".

Not really. After all, there are things which _physically_ propagate
faster than c, such as the group velocity of light in an anomalously
dispersive medium, the phase velocity of light in a normally dispersive
medium, the crossing point of a (gedanken) pair of scissors, or the
image of a searchlight. While these cannot be used to send information
faster than c, they can all be measured so "physical" certainly applies.


What I want to express is, that adding a velocity to the "physically
infinite value of c" the sum remains the same, as in math .

I think you need to review what "addition" means in math. And what
"infinity" means in math. NOTE: you will find the meanings of both
depend on context, and there are many different applicable contexts
including several related to this discussion; if you have any
intellectual curiosity at all you will start LEARNING why your
statements make little or no sense here. For instance, a+x=a for all x
does not necessarily imply a is "infinite" (hint: I did not say a and x
are reals -- look to other contexts).... Another hint: Georg Cantor
first proved there are infinitely many levels of infinity....


Tom Roberts

"Tom Roberts" wrote in message
m...
Rudolf Drabek wrote:
Tom Roberts schrieb:
Rudolf Drabek wrote:
c with the value of +-300000 km/s is the physically infinite value for
speed.
The very bad PUN you use on the word "infinite" is neither helpful nor
useful. Use words with their normal meanings or you risk serious
misunderstandings (as evidenced around here daily).
I said and mean "physically infinite".

Not really. After all, there are things which _physically_ propagate
faster than c, such as the group velocity of light in an anomalously
dispersive medium, the phase velocity of light in a normally dispersive
medium, the crossing point of a (gedanken) pair of scissors, or the
image of a searchlight. While these cannot be used to send information
faster than c, they can all be measured so "physical" certainly applies.

I don't think the crossing point of the scissors can exceed the speed of
light. Wouldn't this would require the speed of sound (in the material of
the scissors) exceeding light speed? And even if it could happen, isn't the
crossing point sending the information that the handles are being squeezed?

Phil