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I recently posted an article on sci.physics.research about a simple
physics matter involving the child-like law of falling bodies, as established by Galileo. In my post, I showed that the WTC 7 building, as observed in the referenced video, took the same amount of time to fall to the ground as an apple thrown from the roof of that building. The moderator of sci.physics.research, Igor Khavkine, rejected my post on the grounds that it was "inappropriate" and "overly speculative". Here, why don't you decide: [Rejection notice from Igor Khavkine] ===================================== Unfortunately, the article you posted to sci.physics.research is inappropriate for the newsgroup because it is overly speculative. For more information, see the sci.physics.research charter at http://math.ucr.edu/home/baez/spr.html Please note that, since the article was posted to a moderated group and was not approved, it will not appear in ANY newsgroup. If you want to post it to any unmoderated newsgroup, you must post it again, avoiding any moderated newsgroups. Keep in mind that posts are randomly distributed to one of the ACTIVE co-moderators. At any given time, one or more of these can be inactive. If, rather than resubmitting a post in the normal way, you email a moderator directly, it might arrive while he is inactive, causing an unnecessary delay. Sincerely, Igor Khavkine, sci.physics.research co-moderator ===================================== [My Original Post] ================== TITLE: Freefall collapse of WTC 7 An examination of this video http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...32340306101329 reveals that the collapse of WTC 7 started at second 17 and completed at second 23. That is a total of 6 seconds. It can be easily shown that this building collapsed in the same time it would take an apple to fall from the roof of this building and hit the ground - a freefall. Let's do a simple calculation: distance travelled = initial velocity * total time + 1/2 * acceleration * total time^2 or s = ut + 1/2at^2 Since the apple was stationary before falling (just like building was prior to collapse), u = 0. Since the height of the building was 174 meters, s = 174. Since we are at ground level the gravitational field strength is aconstant, so a = 9.8 m/s^2 Now, 174 = 0 t + 1/2 9.8 t^2 Solving for t t = sqrt( 2 * 174 / 9.8) = 5.9590 Well look at that, an apple would take 6 seconds to fall from the roof of WTC 7, just the same amount of time it took WTC 7 to collapse. The 10 year old intellect can easily deduce then that WTC 7 must've freefallen. ============================== For how much longer must you be told by the physics elite that buildings can freefall into themselves, freefall through concrete, until you see the obvious? For how much longer must you be told by the physics elite that the flat rotation curves of galaxies and missing mass problem mean that fairy dust halos of unobservable dark matter occur at just the right places to make the failed theory of General Relativity fit with observation, until you see the obvious? For how much longer must you be told by the physics elite that all-permeating blobs of unobservable strings composed nothingness flip and flop to create the physical universe, until you see the obvious? For how much longer must you be brainwashed into believing in a sky that is green but with fairy that makes it blue, until you see the obvious? The physics establishment is a historical laughing stock, how many more brainwashings do you need unil you see that? |
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#2
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I hear you pain.
and share it. Schoenfeld wrote: I recently posted an article on sci.physics.research about a simple physics matter involving the child-like law of falling bodies, as established by Galileo. In my post, I showed that the WTC 7 building, as observed in the referenced video, took the same amount of time to fall to the ground as an apple thrown from the roof of that building. The moderator of sci.physics.research, Igor Khavkine, rejected my post on the grounds that it was "inappropriate" and "overly speculative". Here, why don't you decide: [Rejection notice from Igor Khavkine] ===================================== Unfortunately, the article you posted to sci.physics.research is inappropriate for the newsgroup because it is overly speculative. For more information, see the sci.physics.research charter at http://math.ucr.edu/home/baez/spr.html Please note that, since the article was posted to a moderated group and was not approved, it will not appear in ANY newsgroup. If you want to post it to any unmoderated newsgroup, you must post it again, avoiding any moderated newsgroups. Keep in mind that posts are randomly distributed to one of the ACTIVE co-moderators. At any given time, one or more of these can be inactive. If, rather than resubmitting a post in the normal way, you email a moderator directly, it might arrive while he is inactive, causing an unnecessary delay. Sincerely, Igor Khavkine, sci.physics.research co-moderator ===================================== [My Original Post] ================== TITLE: Freefall collapse of WTC 7 An examination of this video http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...32340306101329 reveals that the collapse of WTC 7 started at second 17 and completed at second 23. That is a total of 6 seconds. It can be easily shown that this building collapsed in the same time it would take an apple to fall from the roof of this building and hit the ground - a freefall. Let's do a simple calculation: distance travelled = initial velocity * total time + 1/2 * acceleration * total time^2 or s = ut + 1/2at^2 Since the apple was stationary before falling (just like building was prior to collapse), u = 0. Since the height of the building was 174 meters, s = 174. Since we are at ground level the gravitational field strength is aconstant, so a = 9.8 m/s^2 Now, 174 = 0 t + 1/2 9.8 t^2 Solving for t t = sqrt( 2 * 174 / 9.8) = 5.9590 Well look at that, an apple would take 6 seconds to fall from the roof of WTC 7, just the same amount of time it took WTC 7 to collapse. The 10 year old intellect can easily deduce then that WTC 7 must've freefallen. ============================== For how much longer must you be told by the physics elite that buildings can freefall into themselves, freefall through concrete, until you see the obvious? For how much longer must you be told by the physics elite that the flat rotation curves of galaxies and missing mass problem mean that fairy dust halos of unobservable dark matter occur at just the right places to make the failed theory of General Relativity fit with observation, until you see the obvious? For how much longer must you be told by the physics elite that all-permeating blobs of unobservable strings composed nothingness flip and flop to create the physical universe, until you see the obvious? For how much longer must you be brainwashed into believing in a sky that is green but with fairy that makes it blue, until you see the obvious? The physics establishment is a historical laughing stock, how many more brainwashings do you need unil you see that? |
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#3
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Ok, so "physicists" are ****heads. Engineers know this, what
would you have us do about it? Androcles. "Schoenfeld" wrote in message ps.com... |I recently posted an article on sci.physics.research about a simple | physics matter involving the child-like law of falling bodies, as | established by Galileo. | | In my post, I showed that the WTC 7 building, as observed in the | referenced video, took the same amount of time to fall to the ground as | an apple thrown from the roof of that building. | | The moderator of sci.physics.research, Igor Khavkine, rejected my post | on the grounds that it was "inappropriate" and "overly speculative". | | Here, why don't you decide: | | [Rejection notice from Igor Khavkine] | ===================================== | Unfortunately, the article you posted to sci.physics.research is | inappropriate for the newsgroup because it is overly speculative. | | For more information, see the sci.physics.research charter at | http://math.ucr.edu/home/baez/spr.html | | Please note that, since the article was posted to a moderated group and | was not approved, it will not appear in ANY newsgroup. If you want to | post it to any unmoderated newsgroup, you must post it again, avoiding | any moderated newsgroups. | | Keep in mind that posts are randomly distributed to one of the ACTIVE | co-moderators. At any given time, one or more of these can be | inactive. If, rather than resubmitting a post in the normal way, you | email a moderator directly, it might arrive while he is inactive, | causing an unnecessary delay. | | Sincerely, | Igor Khavkine, sci.physics.research co-moderator | | ===================================== | | | | [My Original Post] | ================== | TITLE: Freefall collapse of WTC 7 | | An examination of this video | | http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...32340306101329 | | reveals that the collapse of WTC 7 started at second 17 and completed | at second 23. That is a total of 6 seconds. | | It can be easily shown that this building collapsed in the same time it | would take an apple to fall from the roof of this building and hit the | ground - a freefall. | Let's do a simple calculation: | | distance travelled = initial velocity * total time + 1/2 * | acceleration * total time^2 | | or | | s = ut + 1/2at^2 | | Since the apple was stationary before falling (just like building was | prior to collapse), u = 0. | | | Since the height of the building was 174 meters, s = 174. | | Since we are at ground level the gravitational field strength is | aconstant, so a = 9.8 m/s^2 | | Now, | 174 = 0 t + 1/2 9.8 t^2 | | | Solving for t | t = sqrt( 2 * 174 / 9.8) | = 5.9590 | | Well look at that, an apple would take 6 seconds to fall from the roof | of WTC 7, just the same amount of time it took WTC 7 to collapse. | | The 10 year old intellect can easily deduce then that WTC 7 must've | freefallen. | | ============================== | | | For how much longer must you be told by the physics elite that | buildings can freefall into themselves, freefall through concrete, | until you see the obvious? | | For how much longer must you be told by the physics elite that the flat | rotation curves of galaxies and missing mass problem mean that fairy | dust halos of unobservable dark matter occur at just the right places | to make the failed theory of General Relativity fit with observation, | until you see the obvious? | | For how much longer must you be told by the physics elite that | all-permeating blobs of unobservable strings composed nothingness flip | and flop to create the physical universe, until you see the obvious? | | For how much longer must you be brainwashed into believing in a sky | that is green but with fairy that makes it blue, until you see the | obvious? | | The physics establishment is a historical laughing stock, how many more | brainwashings do you need unil you see that? | |
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#4
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"Roger Bagula" wrote in message t... |I hear you pain. | and share it. well said. Androcles. | | Schoenfeld wrote: | | I recently posted an article on sci.physics.research about a simple | physics matter involving the child-like law of falling bodies, as | established by Galileo. | | In my post, I showed that the WTC 7 building, as observed in the | referenced video, took the same amount of time to fall to the ground as | an apple thrown from the roof of that building. | | The moderator of sci.physics.research, Igor Khavkine, rejected my post | on the grounds that it was "inappropriate" and "overly speculative". | | Here, why don't you decide: | | [Rejection notice from Igor Khavkine] | ===================================== | Unfortunately, the article you posted to sci.physics.research is | inappropriate for the newsgroup because it is overly speculative. | | For more information, see the sci.physics.research charter at | http://math.ucr.edu/home/baez/spr.html | | Please note that, since the article was posted to a moderated group and | was not approved, it will not appear in ANY newsgroup. If you want to | post it to any unmoderated newsgroup, you must post it again, avoiding | any moderated newsgroups. | | Keep in mind that posts are randomly distributed to one of the ACTIVE | co-moderators. At any given time, one or more of these can be | inactive. If, rather than resubmitting a post in the normal way, you | email a moderator directly, it might arrive while he is inactive, | causing an unnecessary delay. | | Sincerely, | Igor Khavkine, sci.physics.research co-moderator | | ===================================== | | | | [My Original Post] | ================== | TITLE: Freefall collapse of WTC 7 | | An examination of this video | | http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...32340306101329 | | reveals that the collapse of WTC 7 started at second 17 and completed | at second 23. That is a total of 6 seconds. | | It can be easily shown that this building collapsed in the same time it | would take an apple to fall from the roof of this building and hit the | ground - a freefall. | Let's do a simple calculation: | | distance travelled = initial velocity * total time + 1/2 * | acceleration * total time^2 | | or | | s = ut + 1/2at^2 | | Since the apple was stationary before falling (just like building was | prior to collapse), u = 0. | | | Since the height of the building was 174 meters, s = 174. | | Since we are at ground level the gravitational field strength is | aconstant, so a = 9.8 m/s^2 | | Now, | 174 = 0 t + 1/2 9.8 t^2 | | | Solving for t | t = sqrt( 2 * 174 / 9.8) | = 5.9590 | | Well look at that, an apple would take 6 seconds to fall from the roof | of WTC 7, just the same amount of time it took WTC 7 to collapse. | | The 10 year old intellect can easily deduce then that WTC 7 must've | freefallen. | | ============================== | | | For how much longer must you be told by the physics elite that | buildings can freefall into themselves, freefall through concrete, | until you see the obvious? | | For how much longer must you be told by the physics elite that the flat | rotation curves of galaxies and missing mass problem mean that fairy | dust halos of unobservable dark matter occur at just the right places | to make the failed theory of General Relativity fit with observation, | until you see the obvious? | | For how much longer must you be told by the physics elite that | all-permeating blobs of unobservable strings composed nothingness flip | and flop to create the physical universe, until you see the obvious? | | For how much longer must you be brainwashed into believing in a sky | that is green but with fairy that makes it blue, until you see the | obvious? | | The physics establishment is a historical laughing stock, how many more | brainwashings do you need unil you see that? | | | |
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Schoenfeld escreveu: Solving for t t = sqrt( 2 * 174 / 9.8) = 5.9590 Well look at that, an apple would take 6 seconds to fall from the roof of WTC 7, just the same amount of time it took WTC 7 to collapse. Sorry if I am going to say something stupid. I am just a surgeon... not a physicist. As far as I understand you initially supposed that the building should have a slower fall. However, I'll guess the huge mass falling from top had such a high momentum so that teh concrete below would impose a very small delay in fall. And during the fall more conrete falling and higher speed produced more and more momentum so that this delay, if any delay at all, tended to xero comparing to a free fall. The buiding had a very have body in its top related to its equilibrium and as far as I know it was the fall of this body that produced the collapse. Aguiar |
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#7
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What is the point? Apples are not very dense and would probably reach a
terminal velocity relatively quickly. The terminal velocity would be the velocity where the air drag is equal to the acceleration of gravity times the mass. Understanding the rate of collapse of the building is more complicated. If the apple fell at the same rate as the building it's a coincidence. Personally I am not a fan of the law of falling bodies, as established by Galileo. It does not consider wind resistance. The larger cannon ball should fall faster due to differences in the ratio of mass and surface area. A microscopic "cannon ball" may not even fall. Particles of a fine powder do not fall at the same rate as large objects even when they are composed of the same material. www.ILikeIt.Unfranchise.com "Schoenfeld" wrote in message ps.com... I recently posted an article on sci.physics.research about a simple physics matter involving the child-like law of falling bodies, as established by Galileo. In my post, I showed that the WTC 7 building, as observed in the referenced video, took the same amount of time to fall to the ground as an apple thrown from the roof of that building. The moderator of sci.physics.research, Igor Khavkine, rejected my post on the grounds that it was "inappropriate" and "overly speculative". Here, why don't you decide: [Rejection notice from Igor Khavkine] ===================================== Unfortunately, the article you posted to sci.physics.research is inappropriate for the newsgroup because it is overly speculative. For more information, see the sci.physics.research charter at http://math.ucr.edu/home/baez/spr.html Please note that, since the article was posted to a moderated group and was not approved, it will not appear in ANY newsgroup. If you want to post it to any unmoderated newsgroup, you must post it again, avoiding any moderated newsgroups. Keep in mind that posts are randomly distributed to one of the ACTIVE co-moderators. At any given time, one or more of these can be inactive. If, rather than resubmitting a post in the normal way, you email a moderator directly, it might arrive while he is inactive, causing an unnecessary delay. Sincerely, Igor Khavkine, sci.physics.research co-moderator ===================================== [My Original Post] ================== TITLE: Freefall collapse of WTC 7 An examination of this video http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...32340306101329 reveals that the collapse of WTC 7 started at second 17 and completed at second 23. That is a total of 6 seconds. It can be easily shown that this building collapsed in the same time it would take an apple to fall from the roof of this building and hit the ground - a freefall. Let's do a simple calculation: distance travelled = initial velocity * total time + 1/2 * acceleration * total time^2 or s = ut + 1/2at^2 Since the apple was stationary before falling (just like building was prior to collapse), u = 0. Since the height of the building was 174 meters, s = 174. Since we are at ground level the gravitational field strength is aconstant, so a = 9.8 m/s^2 Now, 174 = 0 t + 1/2 9.8 t^2 Solving for t t = sqrt( 2 * 174 / 9.8) = 5.9590 Well look at that, an apple would take 6 seconds to fall from the roof of WTC 7, just the same amount of time it took WTC 7 to collapse. The 10 year old intellect can easily deduce then that WTC 7 must've freefallen. ============================== For how much longer must you be told by the physics elite that buildings can freefall into themselves, freefall through concrete, until you see the obvious? For how much longer must you be told by the physics elite that the flat rotation curves of galaxies and missing mass problem mean that fairy dust halos of unobservable dark matter occur at just the right places to make the failed theory of General Relativity fit with observation, until you see the obvious? For how much longer must you be told by the physics elite that all-permeating blobs of unobservable strings composed nothingness flip and flop to create the physical universe, until you see the obvious? For how much longer must you be brainwashed into believing in a sky that is green but with fairy that makes it blue, until you see the obvious? The physics establishment is a historical laughing stock, how many more brainwashings do you need unil you see that? |
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Ok, ok, so you see that the top of the building was falling at free fall and
you dispute it. The plane hit the building about 2/3 of the way up, clearing out a floor or two. One floor failed, dropping on to the floor below. The columns also buckled outwards about then. At that point the top indeed was falling, and without any signficant support was pretty close to free fall. As the top of the building descended it gathered a great deal of momentum. Any resistance was quickly overcome by the force of the top third plus dropping on it. When the building finally came down to rest, it wasn't at the bottom of the pile. The rubble was a few stories up. Figure that each floor slowed the reaction down by only a few milliseconds, and that the collapse started in the center, some time before you notice the top starting to go down. With the precision you are working at, you must remember that at 6 seconds, things are moving at 180 ft/sec in free fall. At the precision you have indicated, the apple could have been 100 ft ahead of the building, and you would say it landed at the same time. Michael "Schoenfeld" wrote in message ps.com... I recently posted an article on sci.physics.research about a simple physics matter involving the child-like law of falling bodies, as established by Galileo. In my post, I showed that the WTC 7 building, as observed in the referenced video, took the same amount of time to fall to the ground as an apple thrown from the roof of that building. The moderator of sci.physics.research, Igor Khavkine, rejected my post on the grounds that it was "inappropriate" and "overly speculative". Here, why don't you decide: [Rejection notice from Igor Khavkine] ===================================== Unfortunately, the article you posted to sci.physics.research is inappropriate for the newsgroup because it is overly speculative. For more information, see the sci.physics.research charter at http://math.ucr.edu/home/baez/spr.html Please note that, since the article was posted to a moderated group and was not approved, it will not appear in ANY newsgroup. If you want to post it to any unmoderated newsgroup, you must post it again, avoiding any moderated newsgroups. Keep in mind that posts are randomly distributed to one of the ACTIVE co-moderators. At any given time, one or more of these can be inactive. If, rather than resubmitting a post in the normal way, you email a moderator directly, it might arrive while he is inactive, causing an unnecessary delay. Sincerely, Igor Khavkine, sci.physics.research co-moderator ===================================== [My Original Post] ================== TITLE: Freefall collapse of WTC 7 An examination of this video http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...32340306101329 reveals that the collapse of WTC 7 started at second 17 and completed at second 23. That is a total of 6 seconds. It can be easily shown that this building collapsed in the same time it would take an apple to fall from the roof of this building and hit the ground - a freefall. Let's do a simple calculation: distance travelled = initial velocity * total time + 1/2 * acceleration * total time^2 or s = ut + 1/2at^2 Since the apple was stationary before falling (just like building was prior to collapse), u = 0. Since the height of the building was 174 meters, s = 174. Since we are at ground level the gravitational field strength is aconstant, so a = 9.8 m/s^2 Now, 174 = 0 t + 1/2 9.8 t^2 Solving for t t = sqrt( 2 * 174 / 9.8) = 5.9590 Well look at that, an apple would take 6 seconds to fall from the roof of WTC 7, just the same amount of time it took WTC 7 to collapse. The 10 year old intellect can easily deduce then that WTC 7 must've freefallen. ============================== For how much longer must you be told by the physics elite that buildings can freefall into themselves, freefall through concrete, until you see the obvious? For how much longer must you be told by the physics elite that the flat rotation curves of galaxies and missing mass problem mean that fairy dust halos of unobservable dark matter occur at just the right places to make the failed theory of General Relativity fit with observation, until you see the obvious? For how much longer must you be told by the physics elite that all-permeating blobs of unobservable strings composed nothingness flip and flop to create the physical universe, until you see the obvious? For how much longer must you be brainwashed into believing in a sky that is green but with fairy that makes it blue, until you see the obvious? The physics establishment is a historical laughing stock, how many more brainwashings do you need unil you see that? |
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asaguiar wrote: Schoenfeld escreveu: Solving for t t = sqrt( 2 * 174 / 9.8) = 5.9590 Well look at that, an apple would take 6 seconds to fall from the roof of WTC 7, just the same amount of time it took WTC 7 to collapse. Sorry if I am going to say something stupid. I am just a surgeon... not a physicist. As far as I understand you initially supposed that the building should have a slower fall. Yes, it shouldn't of have fallen at all. If it burned for maybe another 2 years, parts of it may have broken off and fallen. The collapse as observed requires simultaneous structure failure and that is the providence of controlled demolition and only controlled demolition. However, I'll guess the huge mass falling from top had such a high momentum so that teh concrete below would impose a very small delay in fall. And during the fall more conrete falling and higher speed produced more and more momentum so that this delay, if any delay at all, tended to xero comparing to a free fall. The concrete would've acted as a major source of kinetic friction during the descent and the structure should not have collapsed at all. But, you need not consider the material or geometric composition of the structure in order to see that how the laws of physics and the NIST pancake theory cannot be reconciled. Let us assume that a floor collapses at the instant the top floor collided with it, having no delay. For a building of 47 floors, we have 47 different freefalls. In other words, the top floor accelerates from rest and collides with it's below floor. Both combined* floors now accelerate from rest and collide with their below floor, etc. The collapse described by this model is a net motion composed of 47 separate freefalls, each spanning the height of 1 floor. The video evidence clearly suggests 1 freefall spanning the height of 47 floors. The NIST 'pancake model' is irreconcilable with the evidence and established, elementary laws of physics. *: If the floors did not combine, then it means the top floor decreases in velocity (due to momentum transfer). This makes no difference since the total time for all floors to fall to the ground is the same if they did combine. The buiding had a very have body in its top related to its equilibrium and as far as I know it was the fall of this body that produced the collapse. It is as likely as a tree simultaneously turning into saw dust and freefalling into the ground. Aguiar |
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#10
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"Schoenfeld" wrote in message oups.com... asaguiar wrote: Schoenfeld escreveu: Solving for t t = sqrt( 2 * 174 / 9.8) = 5.9590 Well look at that, an apple would take 6 seconds to fall from the roof of WTC 7, just the same amount of time it took WTC 7 to collapse. Sorry if I am going to say something stupid. I am just a surgeon... not a physicist. As far as I understand you initially supposed that the building should have a slower fall. Yes, it shouldn't of have fallen at all. If it burned for maybe another 2 years, parts of it may have broken off and fallen. The collapse as observed requires simultaneous structure failure and that is the providence of controlled demolition and only controlled demolition. Or of a weakended and buckled structure due to heat and the force above it. All you really have to do is to get the loads to be non axial and things buckle quickly. An aluminum soda can is able to hold well over 100 pounds until it has the slightest dent in the side. Then the weight will collapse it rather quickly. Much the same happened with the wtc. However, I'll guess the huge mass falling from top had such a high momentum so that teh concrete below would impose a very small delay in fall. And during the fall more conrete falling and higher speed produced more and more momentum so that this delay, if any delay at all, tended to xero comparing to a free fall. The concrete would've acted as a major source of kinetic friction during the descent and the structure should not have collapsed at all. But, you need not consider the material or geometric composition of the structure in order to see that how the laws of physics and the NIST pancake theory cannot be reconciled. Let us assume that a floor collapses at the instant the top floor collided with it, having no delay. For a building of 47 floors, we have 47 different freefalls. In other words, the top floor accelerates from rest and collides with it's below floor. Both combined* floors now accelerate from rest and collide with their below floor, etc. The collapse described by this model is a net motion composed of 47 separate freefalls, each spanning the height of 1 floor. The video evidence clearly suggests 1 freefall spanning the height of 47 floors. The collapse started 2/3 up the building. The top floor did not collapse onto the floor below it until it was very nearly at its final resting point. By then, it had enough momentum that when the supporting columns pushed back a little, the ties failed instantly. The top 47 floors or whatever basically punched through the lower section of the towers with their full mass. The lower section couldn't resist that kind of impact. The NIST 'pancake model' is irreconcilable with the evidence and established, elementary laws of physics. *: If the floors did not combine, then it means the top floor decreases in velocity (due to momentum transfer). This makes no difference since the total time for all floors to fall to the ground is the same if they did combine. The buiding had a very have body in its top related to its equilibrium and as far as I know it was the fall of this body that produced the collapse. It is as likely as a tree simultaneously turning into saw dust and freefalling into the ground. Aguiar Michael |
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