Eric Gisse wrote: Randy Poe wrote: [snip]
I am willing to bet that the folks who don't understand
relativity won't be able to understand limits as the way
modern calculus defines them.


I'm certainly willing to accept that if you postulate
photons as behaving as if they have gravitational mass E/c^2,
then you get lensing. But I wouldn't call that Newton's theory.

It is a kludge, and even then the actual photon [REST] mass -
if any - is way less than E/c^2.

[TYPO brackets mine]; E/c^2 = PROPER mass of photon = h*fL/c^2.
```Brian.

By the way, doesn't that make the degree of deflection
wavelength dependent?

Yep. - Randy
Einstein was dumb. ahahaha... AHAHAHA... ahahaha...
E/c^2 = PROPER mass of photon = h*fL/c^2.

and from whom did you stole it ???
dont you think that copyrights should be respected??........


ATB
Y.Porat
---------------------------

O.K. Guys. I guess I am among those who don"t understand
relativity...To me the idea of relativity should be that information is
observed by an observer using some measuring device and transmitted to
someone else by some medium. Now this makes all information relative
to an observer and also makes all information distortable as the
relative velocity of transmitter and receiver approach the velocity of
the information carrying apparatus, wave motion or what-ever be used.
Therefore, to me, Einstein's relativity describes how information is
distorted when it is transmitted with light as the carrier. Seems like
the same equations could be used---with a different constant, of
course, if sound were the carrier, etc. etc. So, of course, I don't
understand relativity at all, as I see it applying to the theory of
information transfer and really don't understand it as a basic
fundamental of physics........Oh, well...
Of course, there is also the mass/energy interconversion formula
which, supposedly comes from relativity.. A way of deriving it would
be to assume that two particles with identical masses and identical
velocities on the same vector come to a dead stop in a totally
inelastic collision so that they are annhialated. The energy released
in this collision would be mass times velocity squared.....
A thought, what if two antielectrons met in such a way in a PARTIALLY
INELASTIC so that some of their energy was converted to mass. Would
they have been transformed into protons?? Do the calculation,
somebody, it's a fun idea, considering a proton as a slowed uo and
fattened anti-electron.....!

"ESKI" wrote in message
oups.com...
O.K. Guys. I guess I am among those who don"t understand
relativity...


It is as easy as understanding how to saw a woman in half and have her
reappear whole.


To me the idea of relativity should be that information is
observed by an observer using some measuring device and transmitted to
someone else by some medium.

Yep. Smoke, mirrors, two girls (one always hidden) and an audience.



Now this makes all information relative
to an observer and also makes all information distortable as the
relative velocity of transmitter and receiver approach the velocity of
the information carrying apparatus, wave motion or what-ever be used.

Oh wait... you have to use a lot of rhetoric and persuasion. And a wooden
box to hide the other girl.



Therefore, to me, Einstein's relativity describes how information is
distorted when it is transmitted with light as the carrier.

Sure. The Cassini clock is 1 hour and 14 minutes "slow", we can "see" it is.
http://www.androcles01.pwp.blueyonde...ynchronize.htm

Seems like
the same equations could be used---with a different constant, of
course, if sound were the carrier, etc. etc.

Yep -- or a turtle.
[quote]
we establish by definition that the "time" required by a crab to travel
from A to B equals the "time" it requires to travel from B to A.
[end quote]
Ref: http://www.fourmilab.ch/etexts/einstein/specrel/www/

Einstein can prove nothing can go faster than a crab.

Oops!... Did I say 'a crab'? Sorry...'light'.


"In agreement with experience we further assume the quantity
2AB/(t'A-tA) = c,
to be a universal constant--the velocity of light in empty space." --
Einstein.

In agreement with experience and without any assumption,
BA = -AB,
2AB = AC,

[AB +BA]/(t'A-tA) = 0
Hence c = 0 in Einstein's math.


So, of course, I don't
understand relativity at all, as I see it applying to the theory of
information transfer and really don't understand it as a basic
fundamental of physics........Oh, well...

You have to believe what you see. If the magician saws the girl in half
on the stage, she REALLY WAS sawn in half. Stick in water REALLY
ARE bent at the water/air interface, we can SEE they are. There is
no such thing as a mirage, there REALLY IS water in the desert.
Harry Houdini could make a man disappear.
David Copperfield can make the Statue of Liberty disappear.
Albert Einstein could make TIME disappear.
Great Magicians all, and all use smoke and mirrors.




Of course, there is also the mass/energy interconversion formula
which, supposedly comes from relativity..
A way of deriving it would
be to assume that two particles with identical masses and identical
velocities on the same vector come to a dead stop in a totally
inelastic collision so that they are annhialated. The energy released
in this collision would be mass times velocity squared.....
A thought, what if two antielectrons met in such a way in a PARTIALLY
INELASTIC so that some of their energy was converted to mass. Would
they have been transformed into protons?? Do the calculation,
somebody, it's a fun idea, considering a proton as a slowed uo and
fattened anti-electron.....!

It has been done.
http://www.androcles01.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/E^2/EnergySquare.htm

Androcles.

proton being an electron??!!forget about it

relativity is right about all that business of

'shortening of length (in movement!!) etc
that is just because Time is
just movement comparison

so just dont look for too mystic aspects
in relativity!!
yet
inflation of mass !! is another story !!!
that was just a silly interpretation of the
relativity equations

IE to associate the Lorentz factor to the mass
not a bit of it !!

th Lorentz factor has to be associated to the energy side of the
equation
and everything is settles with physics logic
and once you understand the above
you dont come to fantastic conclusions like
turning the proton to be the electron
in some mathematical fiddling!

just as a general rul :
people must be careful with mathematical fiddling in physics
not any mathematical jun glaring
is right for the physical reality.

so for another example
all that huge 'industry' of rolling back in time
for people history etc
is another physics stupidity.

ATB
Y.Porat
----------------

Y.Porat wrote: relativity is right about all that business of
'shortening of length (in movement!!) etc

$$ All Gr (GTR) TEST-mass is POiNT-mass, ONLY.
```Brian.

my twin wrote: jpk wrote:
can any one give clear idea about how light propogating
trough space

there is no such of thing you call light the electrons from
your eyes start resonating, therefore your eyes penetrate tha
space becus is nothin between you and tha objects

See, h*fL, iN-TRANSiT-light-STRiNG ..in BETWEEN der, DOPPLE-dimwit:
$$ Whe h*fL = nA*Moo*loo*c^2 / 4*pi*rA
= nA*Moo*lo*c^2 / 2*pi*rA
= nA*Moo*c^2 / 4*pi*rA*Roo
= nA*eH*loo / 4*pi*rA
= nA*eH / 4*pi*rA*Roo
= nA*eR / 2*pi*rA*Roo
= nA*me*wlc*c^2 / 2*pi*rA
= nA*{mph}*ls*c^2 / rA
= nA*me*wls*c^2 / rA
= nA*Mp*lp*c^2 / rA
= nA*hbar*c / rA
= (mol part)*degK*Volt / c^2
= nA*lp^3*c^4 / G.

Go-go Google GROUP SEARCH My BiGGER bang.!! ascii iSS GUESS .

CLOSE: Brian A M Stuckless, over over over & OUT.
$$ ^.
GUESS (RESTmass)*c^4=(iNTRiNSiC energy e)*c^2=(mol part)*K*Volt*meter.
$$ My GUESS iSS STANDARD
$$ The STANDARD set.
$$ /\
$$ __ _\/_ __
$$ \_\/_/\_\/_/
$$ /\_\/_/\ ("`-/")_.-'"``-._
$$ _\/_/\_\/_ \. . `; -._ )-;-, `)
$$ /_/\_\/_/\_\ \ / (v_,) _ )`-.\ ``-'
$$ /\ - O - _ .- _..-_/ / ((.'
$$ \/ / \ ((,.-' ((,/ By: Toe.!
$$ By deeds ye know them.!!
BEHOLD, IAM THAT IAM hath circumcised the FORESKiNs of your hearts.!!
$$ :-.,_,.-:*'``'*:-.,_,.-:*'``'*:-.,_,.-:*'``'*:-.,_,.-:*'`
$$ ____ _ _ _ _
$$ | _ \ | | ___ _ __ | | __ | | | |
$$ | |_) | | | / _ \ | '_ \ | |/ / | | | |
$$ My _ENORMOUS_ | __/ | | | (_) | | | | | | _ |_| |_|
$$ |_| |_| \___/ |_| |_| |_|\_\ (_) (_) (_)
$$
$$ :*'``'*:-.,_,.-:*'``'*:-.,_,.-:*'``'*:-.,_,.-:*'``'*:-.,_
BEHOLD, IAM THAT IAM WHOLLY WHOLLY WHOLLY He ..and NO MORE is MORE.!!

propogation of light.
Dat's light ..in BETWEEN der, too, DOPPLE-dimwit.
ATB Y.Porat ----------------.

If one considers that mass and energy are aspects of one and the same
thing then there should be interconvertibility.... In any case, i did
not say a proton could be a slowed ELECTRON, I said,
"Anti-electron, " If one applied the idea to an ELECTRON the
result would be an an ANTI-PROTON......

Thanks, Androcles. I'm not lion when I say that I tried to check the
reference that you gave above, and the computer says that it's not
there..... Drat! I was looking forward to see if the calculations were
much the same as mine. Ciao. The Old ,,, Whoops, I just translated
ESKI

brian a m stuckless wrote:
Eric Gisse wrote: Randy Poe wrote: [snip]
I am willing to bet that the folks who don't understand
relativity won't be able to understand limits as the way
modern calculus defines them.


I'm certainly willing to accept that if you postulate
photons as behaving as if they have gravitational mass E/c^2,
then you get lensing. But I wouldn't call that Newton's theory.

It is a kludge, and even then the actual photon [REST] mass -
if any - is way less than E/c^2.

[TYPO brackets mine]; E/c^2 = PROPER mass of photon = h*fL/c^2.
```Brian.

By the way, doesn't that make the degree of deflection
wavelength dependent?

is a liquid

speed certainly has an affect on a photon
oh sure, just like driving a car some curves demand you slow down
depending on the automobile

just see the eqoation
E=mC^2

energy is not mass!!
energy is *mass in motion* exact;y as in macrocosm!!

that is exactly what the above eqautions tells you !!

nothing simpler than that !!
and btw
the copyrighter of the equation that Stuckless is using is ..... me
Y.P....

ATB
Y.Porat
---------------------