During a seance late last night -- an annual tradition to celebrate
Halloweeen -- we were again able to reach the late, great Dr.
Immanuel Velikovsky.

(Granted, he's still a bit bitter about how the pseudoscientists'
grandpas persecuted his hallowed name, and how today's batch
are following in their disgusting footsteps.)

Well, anyway, Dr. Velikovsky once again agreed to read from his
masterpiece, "Worlds in Collision," written more than a half-century
ago. But he said he probably wouldn't finish it because his schedule
was tight, with places to go and things to do.

So let's get right to it...

Hurry up, Dr. Velikovsky, the floor is your's.

=====================

Hmm! Hmm! Okay!

Worlds in Collision, 'er

WORLDS IN COLLISION

Well, here goes!


In a immense universe a little globe revolves around...

Dr. Velikovsky! Sorry to interrupt! Can you PLEASE speak
a little louder. Some of these pseudos are hard of hearing.

SURE, HOW'S THIS, ED?

Uh, well, I think you're TOO loud now, Immanuel.

How's this?

Good. Real good!

Are you ready?

We can't wait!

Well, here goes...

My name is Immanuel Velikovsky and I died a long time ago,
and back in 1950, when the Phillies won the pennant, my book
was published and ..

Dr. Velikovsky, JUST read from your book, okay?.

Hmmm! Well, okay!

==================

In an immense universe a little globe revolves around a star;
it is the third in the row -- Mercury, Venus, Earth -- of the
planetary family.

It is of a solid core covered over most of its surface with liquid,
and it has a gaseous envelope. Living creatures fill the liquid;
other living creatures fly in the gas; and still others creep and walk
upon the ground on the bottom of the gaseous ocean.

Man, a being of erect stature, thinks himself the prince of creation.
He felt like this long before he, by his own efforts, came to know how
to fly on wings of metal around the globe. He felt godlike long before
he could talk to his fellow-man on the other side of the globe.

Today he can see the microcosm in a drop and the elements in the
stars. He knows the laws governing the living cell with its
chromosomes, and the laws governing the macrocosm of the sun,
moon, planets and stars.

He assumes that gravitation keeps the planetary system together,
man and beast on their planet, the sea within its borders.

For millions and millions of years, he maintains, the planets have
rolled along the same paths, and their moons around them, and man
in these eons has arisen from a one-cell infusorium all the long way
up to the ladder to his status of Homo sapiens.

Is man's knowledge now nearly complete? Are only a few more steps
necessary to conquer the universe: to extract the energy of the atom
-- since these pages were written this has already been done -- to
cure cancer, to control genetics, to communicate with other planets
and learn if they have living creatures, too
.
Here begins Homo ignoramus. He does not know what life is or how it
came to be and whether it originated form inorganic matter.
He does not know whether other planets of this sun or of other suns
have life on them, and if they have, whether the forms of life there
are like those around us, ourselves included.

He does not know how this solar system came into being, although he
has built up a few hypotheses about it. He knows only that the solar
system was constructed billions of years ago.

He does not know what this mysterious force of gravitation is that
holds him and his fellow man on the other side of the planet with
their feet on the ground, although he regards the phenomenon itself
as "the law of laws."

He does not know what the earth looks like five miles under his feet.
He does not know how mountains came into existence or what caused
the emergence of the continents, although he builds hypotheses about
these, nor does he know from where oil came -- again hypotheses.

He does not know why, only a short time ago, a thick glacial sheet
pressed upon most of Europe and North America, as he believes it did;
nor how palms could grow above the polar circle, nor how it came about
that the same fauna fill the inner lakes of the Old and the New
World.

He does not know where the salt in the sea came from.

Although man knows that he has lived on this planet for millions of
years, he finds a recorded history of only a few thousand years. And
even these few thousand years are not sufficiently well known.

Why did the Bronze Age preceed the Iron Age even though iron is more
widely distributed over the world and its manufacture is simpler than
that of the alloy of copper and tin?

By what mechanical means were structures of immense blocks built
on the high mountains of the Andes?

What caused the legend of the Flood to originate in all the countries
of the world? Is there any adequate meaning to the term
"antediluvian"? From what experiences grew the eschatological pictures
of the end of the world?

In this work, of which the present book is the first part, some of
these questions will be answered, but only at the cost of giving up
certain notions now regarded as sacred laws in science -- the millions
of years of the present constitution of the solar system and the
harmonious revolution of the earth -- with all their implications as
regards the theory of evolution ...

=============

Hey, Ed, Sorry! Al Einstein is paging me, so I've got to go. Maybe
I'll be free on the weekend to come back and read some more.
Gee, I hope the pseudos liked it so far.

Oh, I'm sure they didn't, Dr. Velikovsky, although they may dislike
the following photo even more.

================================================== =

INTELLIGENT DESIGNER, IS THIS REALLY, REALLY YOU?

This is the Hubble Telescope's 2004 ultra view photo, one
that was taken of a totally blackened sky as seen through
an EIGHT-FOOT-STRAW. Result: galaxies upon galaxies
upon galaxies, meaning that our universe is far bigger than
we can even begin to fathom.

http://www.spacedaily.com/images/hub...-desk-1024.jpg

=======================================


MAN AS OLD AS COAL
Evolution vs. Intelligent Design

http://www.edconrad.com/canals/edisonnewquote.gif
http://www.edconrad.com/canals/hooton.gif
http://www.edconrad.com/oldascoal/images/krogquote.gif
http://www.edconrad.com/ebay/coalbones/edyournot.gif

WHEN SCIENCE MEETS PSEUDOSCIENCE

http://www.edconrad.com/oldascoal/index.html
http://www.edconrad.com/oldascoal/page2.html
http://www.edconrad.com/oldascoal/page3.html
http://www.edconrad.com/oldascoal/page4.html
http://www.edconrad.com/oldascoal/cmon.html

========================================

THE COVER-UP THAT CAN'T BE COVERED
(Petrified Coal-Age Bones, Teeth and Soft Organs)

(A golden rule of geology is that coal is a minimum of 280
million years old, dating back to the Carboniferous Period.)

(Many Specimens Found After Web Page Constructed)

Photos show a petrified human femur embedded in slate
that was excavated during an open-pit mining operation
in Pennsylvania's anthracite region:

http://www.edconrad.com/ebay/Petrified/z8femur.jpg
http://www.edconrad.com/ebay/D24x/z7femur.jpg

========================================

PETRIFIED HUMAN FINGER AND TOE
http://www.edconrad.com/ebay/FINGER/FINGERSx.jpg

Photo during Power Point presentation in Switzerland)
http://www.edconrad.com/ebay/Newpix2/MVC-006S.JPG

Two Petrified Human Skulls (one embedded in boulder)
http://www.edconrad.com/ebay/Smith/z11calv.jpg
http://www.edconrad.com/ebay/Petrified/skullb.jpg

Handcarved Tool/Weapon Handle (Turned to Anthracite)
http://www.edconrad.com/ebay/Tool/MVC-001S.JPG
http://www.edconrad.com/ebay/Tool/MVC-002S.JPG
http://www.edconrad.com/ebay/Tool/MVC-003S.JPG
http://www.edconrad.com/ebay/Tool/MVC-004S.JPG
http://www.edconrad.com/ebay/Tool/MVC-005S.JPG

Other Petrified Specimens
http://www.edconrad.com/ebay/Petrified/newtibia.jpg
http://www.edconrad.com/ebay/ID\MVC-005S.JPG
http://www.edconrad.com/ebay/Petrified/z5gall.jpg
http://www.edconrad.com/ebay/Petrified/z9lung.jpg
http://www.edconrad.com/ebay/brain/MVC-001S.JPG
http://www.edconrad.com/ebay/Petrified/1tooth.jpg
http://www.edconrad.com/ebay/ID/premolar.jpg
http://www.edconrad.com/ebay/Newpix3/z3dino.jpg
http://www.edconrad.com/ebay/ID/MVC-013F.JPG
http://www.edconrad.com/ebay/Day/MVC-005S.JPG
http://www.edconrad.com/ebay/ID\MVC-017S.JPG
http://www.edconrad.com/ebay/Scorpion/MVC-010S.JPG
http://www.edconrad.com/ebay/Scorpion/MVC-020S.JPG

SOME FAVORABLE SCIENTIFIC TEST RESULTS

Yerkes Regional Primate Research Center
http://www.edconrad.com/ebay/Smith1/MVC-008S.JPG

American Medical Laboratories
http://www.edconrad.com/ebay/ID\MVC-024S.JPG
http://www.edconrad.com/ebay/ID\MVC-002S.JPG

CATscan on petrified premolar
http://www.edconrad.com/oldascoal/images/graph.gif

Scanning Electron Microscopy on petrified tibia
http://www.edconrad.com/canals/sem.jpg

Presence of Haversian canals (Photo of tibia ground section)
http://www.edconrad.com/oldascoal/images/proof1.jpg

Ed Conrad
http://www.edconrad.com

Man as Old as Coal (and probably a whole lot older)

==========================================

Ed says;

During a seance late last night -- an annual tradition to celebrate
Halloweeen -- we were again able to reach the late, great Dr.
Immanuel Velikovsky.
Well, anyway, Dr. Velikovsky once again agreed to read from his
masterpiece, "Worlds in Collision," written more than a half-century
ago. But he said he probably wouldn't finish it because his schedule
was tight, with places to go and things to do.

So let's get right to it...

Hurry up, Dr. Velikovsky, the floor is your's.


Sadly, as usual, only you could hear him I suppose ?
http://redwing.hutman.net/~mreed/war...rouscranus.htm

When I was a graduate student in physics (~1973), I stumbled upon
Velikovsky's _Worlds_in_Collision_ and was struck by the breadth of his
argument. My advisor was amused by the nonsensical physical arguments
presented.

So I decided on a test: I would spend one Saturday in the physics
library to check his references. I started at the front of the book's
reference section and looked up each reference that could be found in
the physics library at UIUC; perhaps 1/3 of the references fit that
condition.

Of the references I looked up, about HALF were nonexistent. That is, I
found the journal/book and page number, but the article he claimed
simply was not there.

Of the ones that did exist, NOT A SINGLE ONE said what he claimed, and
in all cases his claim was either a quote completely out of context or
was a major distortion of the actual article.

I left the library around noon, having found several dozen
inconsistencies and errors in Velikovsky's references, and not a single
valid one.

Some years later, I found _Scientists_Confront_Velikovsky_ by a bunch of
authors; Carl Sagan's article was particularly interesting to me, as he
said he had done essentially the same thing, but in an astronomy library
(his specialty). His result was similar to mine.


So much for Velikovsky's "scholarship". He is a fraud. There is no
sensible reason to study or believe in his writings.


Tom Roberts

So much for Velikovsky's "scholarship". He is a fraud. There is no
sensible reason to study or believe in his writings.

Agreed. With the netloons we have here, corresponding on saa
is often like having a conversation in the hallways of an
insane asylum. It may have started out as a discussion between
two sane visitors, but the loons quickly try to join in.

Clear Skies

Chuck Taylor
Do you observe the moon? If so, try
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/lunar-observing/

If you enjoy optics, try
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ATM_Optics_Software/
*********************************************

"Tom Roberts" wrote in message ...
When I was a graduate student in physics (~1973), I stumbled upon
Velikovsky's _Worlds_in_Collision_ and was struck by the breadth of his
argument. My advisor was amused by the nonsensical physical arguments
presented.

So I decided on a test: I would spend one Saturday in the physics
library to check his references. I started at the front of the book's
reference section and looked up each reference that could be found in
the physics library at UIUC; perhaps 1/3 of the references fit that
condition.

Of the references I looked up, about HALF were nonexistent. That is, I
found the journal/book and page number, but the article he claimed
simply was not there.

Of the ones that did exist, NOT A SINGLE ONE said what he claimed, and
in all cases his claim was either a quote completely out of context or
was a major distortion of the actual article.

I left the library around noon, having found several dozen
inconsistencies and errors in Velikovsky's references, and not a single
valid one.

Some years later, I found _Scientists_Confront_Velikovsky_ by a bunch of
authors; Carl Sagan's article was particularly interesting to me, as he
said he had done essentially the same thing, but in an astronomy library
(his specialty). His result was similar to mine.


So much for Velikovsky's "scholarship". He is a fraud. There is no
sensible reason to study or believe in his writings.

hehe :-)
See also what Fritzius has to say:
http://www.ebicom.net/~rsf1/vel/wtr_mtn.htm
http://www.ebicom.net/~rsf1/vel/rems.htm

| "I first became acquainted with Velikovsky's work in 1968.
| I was cooling my heels in a book store in San Diego CA,
| while the missus finished shopping. A paperback version
| of Worlds in Collision caught my eye. I read the PR stuff
| on the cover and quickly decided that the author was a
| kook. Yet... I read a bit in the book proper and began
| to change my opinion. A little deeper and the bookstore
| was one sale up.
|
| I found Velikovsky mostly believable and entirely
| intriguing. I'm an electrical engineer and didn't
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
| encounter any problems with the physics. There were some
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
| spots that Velikovsky read more into a situation than I
| think I would but his reasoning seemed overall sound."

Dirk Vdm

He is still a nut. No one has been ever able to verify his hypothesis
of Comets being erupted from Jupiter!

He is still a nut. No one has been ever able to verify his hypothesis
of Comets being erupted from Jupiter!

wrote in message ups.com...
He is still a nut. No one has been ever able to verify his hypothesis
of Comets being erupted from Jupiter!

Don't think he was a nut.
Just a clever fraud who sold a lot of books ;-)

Dirk Vdm

In sci.physics.relativity Dirk Van de moortel wrote:

wrote in message ups.com...
He is still a nut. No one has been ever able to verify his hypothesis
of Comets being erupted from Jupiter!

Don't think he was a nut.
Just a clever fraud who sold a lot of books ;-)

Dirk Vdm

Apparently there are recovering Velikovskians out there.
http://abob.libs.uga.edu/bobk/vdtopten.html

Stephen

Ed Conrad wrote:

During a seance late last night -- an annual tradition to celebrate
Halloweeen -- we were again able to reach the late, great Dr.
Immanuel Velikovsky.

Hmmm... Imanginary conversations with dead people. Could it be
that Ed is morphing into George Hammond?

-jc




(Granted, he's still a bit bitter about how the pseudoscientists'
grandpas persecuted his hallowed name, and how today's batch
are following in their disgusting footsteps.)

Well, anyway, Dr. Velikovsky once again agreed to read from his
masterpiece, "Worlds in Collision," written more than a half-century
ago. But he said he probably wouldn't finish it because his schedule
was tight, with places to go and things to do.

So let's get right to it...

Hurry up, Dr. Velikovsky, the floor is your's.

=====================

Hmm! Hmm! Okay!

Worlds in Collision, 'er

WORLDS IN COLLISION

Well, here goes!


In a immense universe a little globe revolves around...

Dr. Velikovsky! Sorry to interrupt! Can you PLEASE speak
a little louder. Some of these pseudos are hard of hearing.

SURE, HOW'S THIS, ED?

Uh, well, I think you're TOO loud now, Immanuel.

How's this?

Good. Real good!

Are you ready?

We can't wait!

Well, here goes...

My name is Immanuel Velikovsky and I died a long time ago,
and back in 1950, when the Phillies won the pennant, my book
was published and ..

Dr. Velikovsky, JUST read from your book, okay?.

Hmmm! Well, okay!

==================

In an immense universe a little globe revolves around a star;
it is the third in the row -- Mercury, Venus, Earth -- of the
planetary family.

It is of a solid core covered over most of its surface with liquid,
and it has a gaseous envelope. Living creatures fill the liquid;
other living creatures fly in the gas; and still others creep and walk
upon the ground on the bottom of the gaseous ocean.

Man, a being of erect stature, thinks himself the prince of creation.
He felt like this long before he, by his own efforts, came to know how
to fly on wings of metal around the globe. He felt godlike long before
he could talk to his fellow-man on the other side of the globe.

Today he can see the microcosm in a drop and the elements in the
stars. He knows the laws governing the living cell with its
chromosomes, and the laws governing the macrocosm of the sun,
moon, planets and stars.

He assumes that gravitation keeps the planetary system together,
man and beast on their planet, the sea within its borders.

For millions and millions of years, he maintains, the planets have
rolled along the same paths, and their moons around them, and man
in these eons has arisen from a one-cell infusorium all the long way
up to the ladder to his status of Homo sapiens.

Is man's knowledge now nearly complete? Are only a few more steps
necessary to conquer the universe: to extract the energy of the atom
-- since these pages were written this has already been done -- to
cure cancer, to control genetics, to communicate with other planets
and learn if they have living creatures, too
.
Here begins Homo ignoramus. He does not know what life is or how it
came to be and whether it originated form inorganic matter.
He does not know whether other planets of this sun or of other suns
have life on them, and if they have, whether the forms of life there
are like those around us, ourselves included.

He does not know how this solar system came into being, although he
has built up a few hypotheses about it. He knows only that the solar
system was constructed billions of years ago.

He does not know what this mysterious force of gravitation is that
holds him and his fellow man on the other side of the planet with
their feet on the ground, although he regards the phenomenon itself
as "the law of laws."

He does not know what the earth looks like five miles under his feet.
He does not know how mountains came into existence or what caused
the emergence of the continents, although he builds hypotheses about
these, nor does he know from where oil came -- again hypotheses.

He does not know why, only a short time ago, a thick glacial sheet
pressed upon most of Europe and North America, as he believes it did;
nor how palms could grow above the polar circle, nor how it came about
that the same fauna fill the inner lakes of the Old and the New
World.

He does not know where the salt in the sea came from.

Although man knows that he has lived on this planet for millions of
years, he finds a recorded history of only a few thousand years. And
even these few thousand years are not sufficiently well known.

Why did the Bronze Age preceed the Iron Age even though iron is more
widely distributed over the world and its manufacture is simpler than
that of the alloy of copper and tin?

By what mechanical means were structures of immense blocks built
on the high mountains of the Andes?

What caused the legend of the Flood to originate in all the countries
of the world? Is there any adequate meaning to the term
"antediluvian"? From what experiences grew the eschatological pictures
of the end of the world?

In this work, of which the present book is the first part, some of
these questions will be answered, but only at the cost of giving up
certain notions now regarded as sacred laws in science -- the millions
of years of the present constitution of the solar system and the
harmonious revolution of the earth -- with all their implications as
regards the theory of evolution ...

=============

Hey, Ed, Sorry! Al Einstein is paging me, so I've got to go. Maybe
I'll be free on the weekend to come back and read some more.
Gee, I hope the pseudos liked it so far.

Oh, I'm sure they didn't, Dr. Velikovsky, although they may dislike
the following photo even more.

================================================== =

INTELLIGENT DESIGNER, IS THIS REALLY, REALLY YOU?

This is the Hubble Telescope's 2004 ultra view photo, one
that was taken of a totally blackened sky as seen through
an EIGHT-FOOT-STRAW. Result: galaxies upon galaxies
upon galaxies, meaning that our universe is far bigger than
we can even begin to fathom.

http://www.spacedaily.com/images/hub...-desk-1024.jpg

=======================================


MAN AS OLD AS COAL
Evolution vs. Intelligent Design

http://www.edconrad.com/canals/edisonnewquote.gif
http://www.edconrad.com/canals/hooton.gif
http://www.edconrad.com/oldascoal/images/krogquote.gif
http://www.edconrad.com/ebay/coalbones/edyournot.gif

WHEN SCIENCE MEETS PSEUDOSCIENCE

http://www.edconrad.com/oldascoal/index.html
http://www.edconrad.com/oldascoal/page2.html
http://www.edconrad.com/oldascoal/page3.html
http://www.edconrad.com/oldascoal/page4.html
http://www.edconrad.com/oldascoal/cmon.html

========================================

THE COVER-UP THAT CAN'T BE COVERED
(Petrified Coal-Age Bones, Teeth and Soft Organs)

(A golden rule of geology is that coal is a minimum of 280
million years old, dating back to the Carboniferous Period.)

(Many Specimens Found After Web Page Constructed)

Photos show a petrified human femur embedded in slate
that was excavated during an open-pit mining operation
in Pennsylvania's anthracite region:

http://www.edconrad.com/ebay/Petrified/z8femur.jpg
http://www.edconrad.com/ebay/D24x/z7femur.jpg

========================================

PETRIFIED HUMAN FINGER AND TOE
http://www.edconrad.com/ebay/FINGER/FINGERSx.jpg

Photo during Power Point presentation in Switzerland)
http://www.edconrad.com/ebay/Newpix2/MVC-006S.JPG

Two Petrified Human Skulls (one embedded in boulder)
http://www.edconrad.com/ebay/Smith/z11calv.jpg
http://www.edconrad.com/ebay/Petrified/skullb.jpg

Handcarved Tool/Weapon Handle (Turned to Anthracite)
http://www.edconrad.com/ebay/Tool/MVC-001S.JPG
http://www.edconrad.com/ebay/Tool/MVC-002S.JPG
http://www.edconrad.com/ebay/Tool/MVC-003S.JPG
http://www.edconrad.com/ebay/Tool/MVC-004S.JPG
http://www.edconrad.com/ebay/Tool/MVC-005S.JPG

Other Petrified Specimens
http://www.edconrad.com/ebay/Petrified/newtibia.jpg
http://www.edconrad.com/ebay/ID\MVC-005S.JPG
http://www.edconrad.com/ebay/Petrified/z5gall.jpg
http://www.edconrad.com/ebay/Petrified/z9lung.jpg
http://www.edconrad.com/ebay/brain/MVC-001S.JPG
http://www.edconrad.com/ebay/Petrified/1tooth.jpg
http://www.edconrad.com/ebay/ID/premolar.jpg
http://www.edconrad.com/ebay/Newpix3/z3dino.jpg
http://www.edconrad.com/ebay/ID/MVC-013F.JPG
http://www.edconrad.com/ebay/Day/MVC-005S.JPG
http://www.edconrad.com/ebay/ID\MVC-017S.JPG
http://www.edconrad.com/ebay/Scorpion/MVC-010S.JPG
http://www.edconrad.com/ebay/Scorpion/MVC-020S.JPG

SOME FAVORABLE SCIENTIFIC TEST RESULTS

Yerkes Regional Primate Research Center
http://www.edconrad.com/ebay/Smith1/MVC-008S.JPG

American Medical Laboratories
http://www.edconrad.com/ebay/ID\MVC-024S.JPG
http://www.edconrad.com/ebay/ID\MVC-002S.JPG

CATscan on petrified premolar
http://www.edconrad.com/oldascoal/images/graph.gif

Scanning Electron Microscopy on petrified tibia
http://www.edconrad.com/canals/sem.jpg

Presence of Haversian canals (Photo of tibia ground section)
http://www.edconrad.com/oldascoal/images/proof1.jpg

Ed Conrad
http://www.edconrad.com

Man as Old as Coal (and probably a whole lot older)

==========================================