Y.Porat wrote:
OK Henry
the main point is that we agree on a very important
and not least- revolutionary issue!!

mind you it is more revolutionary than we can imagine at first glance

and again No mass - no real physics !!

If we want to compare the space between a 1cm
charge-pair to the space between a 2cm charge-pair
then we must allow that something is different about
the two spaces. We can measure it with a fish scale.

In an experimental context, we cannot measure
the differnce without access to the material
charges. But, are you willing to say a difference
in the two spaces does not exist, simply because
we cannot measure it? That would be like saying
we should not consider the possibilty that the
sun rises every day if we are confined to a light
proof enclosure.

I understand why you (and many others) favor a
more rigid definition of what is physical and
what is mathmatical. Without question, much of
the freewheeling math used, has driven our discipline
to the edge of never-never land but I don't think
it is for lack of rules.

IMHO, practitioners in both fields are overly
optimistic about what we know, and what we don't
know. The popular media amplifies on concepts that
are barely conjectural and the result is
generation(s) that think they know what they don't
and try to build on it. Sensationalism traveles faster
than the speed of light.


that is going to be one of the basics of physics from now on
and will save tons of vain mumbling!!

That is a noble goal... but I think you will
find most of the misconceptions in our field
are traceable to inadaquate application of the
scientific method of investigation.

One of my favorites:
Predictions (reasoning including *logical*
deduction from hypotheses and theories)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scientific_method

There is nothing *logical* about a clock responding
to motion, yet people who should know better claim
experimental proof of this totally imaginary concept.

Sue...



ATB
Y.Porat
----------------------

A one meter long pendulum CLOCK *period* beats one second ON the EARth's
SURFACE but that period decreases with ANY increase in ALTiTUDE, at all.

Switching to ATOMiC higher frequency counters simply increases accuracy.
Note ATOMiC higher FREQUENCY COUNTERs are NOT exactly PENDuLUM CLOCKs.!!
Note ATOMiC higher FREQUENCY COUNTERs are NOT altered due to ALTiTUDE.!!
Note ATOMiC higher FREQUENCY COUNTERs are altered, by AMBiENT DENSiTY.!!
Note that a PENDuLUM CLOCK is ALSO EQUALLY altered by AMBiENT DENSiTY.!!

Note that a DENSiTY GRADiENT exists between the EARth and a GPS ORBiT.!!
The DENSiTY GRADiENT PRE-set FACTOR between EARth & GPS is 4.5*10^-10.!!
An ATOMiC mega-frequency COUNT simply BETTER CALiBRATEs a *REAL* time.!!

ANY increase in ALTiTUDE is *motion* ..no matter how slow, or how far.!!
HAViNG the *WRONG TiME* has NOTHiNG to do with TWiN AGiNG on GR trips.!!
brian a m stuckless

Sue... wrote: Y.Porat wrote: OK Henry
the main point is that we agree on a very important
and not least- revolutionary issue!!

mind you it is more revolutionary than we can imagine at first glance

and again No mass - no real physics !!

If we want to compare the space between a 1cm
charge-pair to the space between a 2cm charge-pair
then we must allow that something is different about
the two spaces. We can measure it with a fish scale.

In an experimental context, we cannot measure
the differnce without access to the material
charges. But, are you willing to say a difference
in the two spaces does not exist, simply because
we cannot measure it? That would be like saying
we should not consider the possibilty that the
sun rises every day if we are confined to a light
proof enclosure.

I understand why you (and many others) favor a
more rigid definition of what is physical and
what is mathmatical. --

You have ever critized me, on spelling.?!!

-- Without question, much of
the freewheeling math used, has driven our discipline
to the edge of never-never land but I don't think
it is for lack of rules.

IMHO, practitioners in both fields are overly
optimistic about what we know, and what we don't
know. The popular media amplifies on concepts that
are barely conjectural and the result is
generation(s) that think they know what they don't
and try to build on it. Sensationalism traveles --

Sue, have you ever critized me ..on spelling.?!!

-- faster
than the speed of light.


that is going to be one of the basics of physics from now on
and will save tons of vain mumbling!!

That is a noble goal... but I think you will
find most of the misconceptions in our field
are traceable to inadaquate application of the
scientific method of investigation.

One of my favorites:
Predictions (reasoning including *logical*
deduction from hypotheses and theories)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scientific_method

There is nothing *logical* about a clock responding to motion, --

insert ..see top of PAGE.!!

-- yet people who should know better claim
experimental proof of this totally imaginary concept.

Sue...

ATB Y.Porat ----------------------

brian a m stuckless wrote:
A one meter long pendulum CLOCK *period* beats one second ON the EARth's
SURFACE but that period decreases with ANY increase in ALTiTUDE, at all.

Switching to ATOMiC higher frequency counters simply increases accuracy.
Note ATOMiC higher FREQUENCY COUNTERs are NOT exactly PENDuLUM CLOCKs.!!
Note ATOMiC higher FREQUENCY COUNTERs are NOT altered due to ALTiTUDE.!!
Note ATOMiC higher FREQUENCY COUNTERs are altered, by AMBiENT DENSiTY.!!
Note that a PENDuLUM CLOCK is ALSO EQUALLY altered by AMBiENT DENSiTY.!!

Note that a DENSiTY GRADiENT exists between the EARth and a GPS ORBiT.!!
The DENSiTY GRADiENT PRE-set FACTOR between EARth & GPS is 4.5*10^-10.!!
An ATOMiC mega-frequency COUNT simply BETTER CALiBRATEs a *REAL* time.!!

ANY increase in ALTiTUDE is *motion* ..no matter how slow, or how far.!!
HAViNG the *WRONG TiME* has NOTHiNG to do with TWiN AGiNG on GR trips.!!
brian a m stuckless

Sue... wrote: Y.Porat wrote: OK Henry
the main point is that we agree on a very important
and not least- revolutionary issue!!

mind you it is more revolutionary than we can imagine at first glance

and again No mass - no real physics !!

If we want to compare the space between a 1cm
charge-pair to the space between a 2cm charge-pair
then we must allow that something is different about
the two spaces. We can measure it with a fish scale.

In an experimental context, we cannot measure
the differnce without access to the material
charges. But, are you willing to say a difference
in the two spaces does not exist, simply because
we cannot measure it? That would be like saying
we should not consider the possibilty that the
sun rises every day if we are confined to a light
proof enclosure.

I understand why you (and many others) favor a
more rigid definition of what is physical and
what is mathmatical. --

You have ever critized me, on spelling.?!!

-- Without question, much of
the freewheeling math used, has driven our discipline
to the edge of never-never land but I don't think
it is for lack of rules.

IMHO, practitioners in both fields are overly
optimistic about what we know, and what we don't
know. The popular media amplifies on concepts that
are barely conjectural and the result is
generation(s) that think they know what they don't
and try to build on it. Sensationalism traveles --

Sue, have you ever critized me ..on spelling.?!!
You misspelled 'accelerometer'.

Sue...


-- faster
than the speed of light.


that is going to be one of the basics of physics from now on
and will save tons of vain mumbling!!

That is a noble goal... but I think you will
find most of the misconceptions in our field
are traceable to inadaquate application of the
scientific method of investigation.

One of my favorites:
Predictions (reasoning including *logical*
deduction from hypotheses and theories)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scientific_method

There is nothing *logical* about a clock responding to motion, --

insert ..see top of PAGE.!!

-- yet people who should know better claim
experimental proof of this totally imaginary concept.

Sue...

ATB Y.Porat ----------------------

Sue... wrote:
There is nothing *logical* about a clock responding to motion, --

Note SOME edited text, and a new BOTTOM line:..
A one meter-long pendulum's *PERiOD* beats EXACTLY 1 second, ON EARth's
SURFACE, but the PERiOD decreases with ANY increase in ALTiTUDE, at all.
The GPS EARth-clock OUGHT BE in a Very Low Orbit (VLO) ..not *ON* EARth,
since this is WHAT CAUSEs some GPS Systems to REQUiRE a DAiLY re-SET.!!

Switching to ATOMiC higher frequency counters simply increases accuracy.
Note ATOMiC higher FREQUENCY COUNTERs are NOT exactly PENDuLUM CLOCKs.!!
Note ATOMiC higher FREQUENCY COUNTERs are NOT altered due to ALTiTUDE.!!
Note ATOMiC higher FREQUENCY COUNTERs are altered, by AMBiENT DENSiTY.!!
Note that a PENDuLUM CLOCK is ALSO EQUALLY altered by AMBiENT DENSiTY.!!

Note that a DENSiTY GRADiENT exists between the EARth and a GPS ORBiT.!!
The DENSiTY GRADiENT PRE-set FACTOR between EARth & GPS is 4.5*10^-10.!!
An ATOMiC mega-frequency COUNT simply BETTER CALiBRATEs a *REAL* time.!!

ANY increase in ALTiTUDE is *motion* ..no matter how slow, or how far.!!
HAViNG the *WRONG TiME* has NOTHiNG to do with TWiN AGiNG on GR trips.!!
So, how could ANYone ever know WHiCH CLOCK actually HAD a WRONG TiME.?!!
But, you will FORGET ALL THAT GR gtr Tivity NONSENCE, anyway ..Right.?!!

NEEDless to ADD:
jOE FiSCHER's *NEW SYNoNYM* of "PENDuLUM CLOCK" is an "accelerometer".!!
brian a m stuckless


-- yet people who should know better claim
experimental proof of this totally imaginary concept.

Sue...

ATB Y.Porat ----------------------

brian a m stuckless wrote:
Sue... wrote:
There is nothing *logical* about a clock responding to motion, --

Note SOME edited text, and a new BOTTOM line:..
A one meter-long pendulum's *PERiOD* beats EXACTLY 1 second, ON EARth's
SURFACE, but the PERiOD decreases with ANY increase in ALTiTUDE, at all.
The GPS EARth-clock OUGHT BE in a Very Low Orbit (VLO) ..not *ON* EARth,
since this is WHAT CAUSEs some GPS Systems to REQUiRE a DAiLY re-SET.!!

Switching to ATOMiC higher frequency counters simply increases accuracy.
Note ATOMiC higher FREQUENCY COUNTERs are NOT exactly PENDuLUM CLOCKs.!!
Note ATOMiC higher FREQUENCY COUNTERs are NOT altered due to ALTiTUDE.!!
Note ATOMiC higher FREQUENCY COUNTERs are altered, by AMBiENT DENSiTY.!!
Note that a PENDuLUM CLOCK is ALSO EQUALLY altered by AMBiENT DENSiTY.!!

Note that a DENSiTY GRADiENT exists between the EARth and a GPS ORBiT.!!
The DENSiTY GRADiENT PRE-set FACTOR between EARth & GPS is 4.5*10^-10.!!
An ATOMiC mega-frequency COUNT simply BETTER CALiBRATEs a *REAL* time.!!

ANY increase in ALTiTUDE is *motion* ..no matter how slow, or how far.!!
HAViNG the *WRONG TiME* has NOTHiNG to do with TWiN AGiNG on GR trips.!!
So, how could ANYone ever know WHiCH CLOCK actually HAD a WRONG TiME.?!!
But, you will FORGET ALL THAT GR gtr Tivity NONSENCE, anyway ..Right.?!!

NEEDless to ADD:
jOE FiSCHER's *NEW SYNoNYM* of "PENDuLUM CLOCK" is an "accelerometer".!!
brian a m stuckless


You mispelled hyperfine.

Sue...


-- yet people who should know better claim
experimental proof of this totally imaginary concept.

Sue...

ATB Y.Porat ----------------------