Existence is relative. If you cant observe time, it "appears" to go
away. I think that it cant be observed on extreme scales, hence, the
Oreo Cookie Universe Theory. A sweet creamy filling of pure
unadulterated existence, sandwiched in between two crispy wafers of
nonexistence on extreme scales because time cant be observed there.

"Sue..." wrote in message
oups.com...

LEFTY wrote:
Not at all. The Chevy may observe the Ford to have no motion.
The Ford may observe the Chevy to have no motion.
But at end of 1/4 mile, the fuel remaining in the
tanks will indicate the race car with less mass.

Metaphysical musings don't get us any closer to
the notion of time than a couple of kids can
measure with a fuel can on a Sunday afternoon.


Sue...


But neither the Ford nor the Chevy can make an observation in less
than
Planck time.

You have 3 things going on here.
1) Observability of time
2) Observability of length
3) Observability of motion, which is a composition of (1) and (2).

Ford observes Chevy, and Chevy observes Ford. But this requires t
PlanckTime, otherwise they cannot make an observation at all.

The reason I specified a Ford and Chevy is because
everyone knows they come with special brackets for
suspending a physics laboratory between a pair. :-)
Nobel 1998 Robert B. Laughlin, Horst L. Störmer, Daniel C. Tsui
http://www.warwick.ac.uk/~phsbm/fqhe.htm


(The fractional quantum Hall effect (FQHE) is concerned centrally with
filling factor. This is usually writen as the greek letter nu, or v due
to the limitations of HTML.)

When it gets writ right it'll be ok.
"People get their worms wrong"... Ronnie Barker.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/comedy/profiles...e_barker.shtml


http://physics.nist.gov/cuu/Constants/alpha.html

\epsilon0 = 1/(\mu0 * c^2) is the electric constant (permitivity of
vacuum)
"People get their worms wrong"... Ronnie Barker.

\alpha = 1/(\mu0 * c^2 * 2*h)

I suppose it was too much to ask for you to realize how this
piece of nonsense came into existence, but the permittivity of vacuum
is an eansy weansy tiny bit different to the permittivity of aether.
tan(89.999999 degrees) isn't quite the same as tan(90 degrees) either.
57,295,779.51 isn't quite infinity.
If you want a Nobel prize, use someone else's divide-by-zero.

"You can fool all the people some of the time, and some of the people
all the time, but you cannot fool all the people all the time." --
Abraham Lincoln

Try as you like, Sue, I'm not fooled. You may be successful with Lefty.
Make sure you have sound turned on, listen carefully as you check out
this
page:
http://www.trollshop.net/trolls/tusselader/
It is my response to your \alpha.
Androcles.

LEFTY wrote:
Existence is relative. If you cant observe time, it "appears" to go
away.

Indeed. If the loosing driver isn't observing, then his
remaining fuel will go away through a siphon hose so the winner can
make it home. :-)



I think that it cant be observed on extreme scales, hence, the
Oreo Cookie Universe Theory. A sweet creamy filling of pure
unadulterated existence, sandwiched in between two crispy wafers of
nonexistence on extreme scales because time cant be observed there.

Sorry, painting white strips on the traction wheels has no
effect here.
The rusty lamp appears to be getting dimmer.

INVENTORY
You are carrying a rusty lamp (providing light), an elvish sword, a
guidebook, a jar, a pile of cheese and a pepperoni. It seems that the
jar is half-full of tomato sauce. You are wearing a magic shawl.

Your lamp is getting dimmer...

Sue...

On Sun, 9 Oct 2005, Androcles wrote:

"LEFTY" wrote:
[cut]
| Is that so cranky ?

As you can see, normal people believe any rubbish. To be a crank,
you have to abnormal like me. I can't possibly support normal
people aspiring to crankdom.
Here is an example of how to fish.
The needle is the hook, the plate is the sinker, the line is the one
I spin. Then you spot a normal fish with a Ph.D. swimming and
cast your bait, which is swallowed hook, line and sinker.
Reel it in slowly if it's a big fish, or land it fast and throw it back
if it's a minnow.

You're a lousy troll, too, Androcles. A real troll wouldn't need to
persistently reply to my posts, or repeatedly request me to reply.

Androcles casts his line:
Ok, Now reduce the area to a point, say one atom at the end of a
needle.
Apply some large voltage (say 1,000,000V) between the needle and a
plate (any area).
Start with d large, say 1 kilometre. Gradually reduce d. What happens?
[cut]
Nieminen:
Anyway, I'd say that about the same thing would happen if you brought
them together in empty space as if you brought them together in air,
until
the fields became large enough to get fun stuff like arcing, ion wind
etc.

Androcles cranks his reel:
You would, huh?
That ends the discussion, then, my TV needs a vacuum to operate.

You have a megavolt TV?

Anyway, I'm sure your family is glad that you post anonymously. If people
knew you were related to them, they might think it might be genetic ...

--
Timo

"My Clock Works, Therefore I Am"

Rene' Descartes rotating in his grave with an angular velocity of pi^4
radians per second.

"Timo Nieminen" wrote in message
...
| On Sun, 9 Oct 2005, Androcles wrote:
|
| "LEFTY" wrote:
| [cut]
| | Is that so cranky ?
|
| As you can see, normal people believe any rubbish. To be a crank,
| you have to abnormal like me. I can't possibly support normal
| people aspiring to crankdom.
| Here is an example of how to fish.
| The needle is the hook, the plate is the sinker, the line is the one
| I spin. Then you spot a normal fish with a Ph.D. swimming and
| cast your bait, which is swallowed hook, line and sinker.
| Reel it in slowly if it's a big fish, or land it fast and throw it
back
| if it's a minnow.
|
| You're a lousy troll, too, Androcles

**** off, Nieminen.
A **** like you isn't a physicist, you don't even know how a TV works.
I baited the hook, reeled you in and threw you back.
I can outsmart you anyday. Game over, minnow.
Now **** off.
Androcles.

In article , David Kastrup
wrote:

"Sue..." writes:

LEFTY wrote:
OMG that is funny.

I saw a documentary about Richard Feynman, and also remember his
investigations into Challenger disaster. I think that he's pretty much
the consummate 20th centiry scientist.

And I think that if he were here, posting on this thread, he'd
probably give a pretty good argument against what I'm saying simply
because it seems ridiculous to treat nonexistence as a physical
phenomena. I think that even Einstein felt that way if I'm not
mistaken.

Feynman's math seems to make a tenuous dance around the idea of
nonexistence, always careful not to step on it.

If the universe doesn't exist, then we don't need to study it.

Neither do we need to study it if it exists. But in either case, it
is fun doing so.

It would be much easier to study if it did exist that if it didn't,
since if it didn't we wouldn't!

On Sun, 9 Oct 2005, Androcles wrote:

"Timo Nieminen" wrote:
|
| You're a lousy troll, too, Androcles

[cut Androclean potty-mouth]
, you don't even know how a TV works.

You think you have a megavolt TV?

You think there is room-pressure air inside a CRT?

Why do you think a vacuum tube is called a VACUUM tube?

And while we're at it, here's another simple question you keep cutting and
running from:

When is 5 hours earlier than 5 hours later than now?

--
Timo

[ Flipping right index finger up and down repeatedly over the lips,
humming / vocalizing ]

bbbbbbrrrrrrrrrreeeeeeeeeeeaahhhhhh ableaaaaaaaaaaab
blaeeeeeeeaahhhhhbbbbb, bbbbb bbbbbb bbbbbbbb


For any two points A, B, in spacetime, there is a path of zero distance
from A to B.

Determinism died on Sept 15, 2005.


ableaaaaaaaaaaab, bbbbb bbbbbb bbbbbbbb


\

Determinism died on Sept 15, 2005.

**************

Nope.

Determinism is possible for simple systems, like billiard ball motion.

Complex systems develop free will, such as humans. A good example is
the fact that I straightened you out on this, and you came back
swinging, but I, like the American Military, shoot from a safe haven
and don't risk myself.

Toodle-Lewd-Wench-Sky