"T Wake" wrote in message ...

wrote in message
oups.com...
Dynamic dimensions sue

That's my Aether.


Still not correct though.
Rubber rulers, creative accounting, faith based military strategy,
the bell hop problem, mission creep...
call it what you will
http://www.buzzflash.com/contributor...7/22_lies.html

Sue...

wrote in message
oups.com...
Dynamic dimensions sue

That's my Aether.


Still not correct though.

"Tom Roberts" wrote in message ...
The Ghost In The Machine wrote:
A variant of the Twin Paradox is extremely easy to
demonstrate if one has the following:
[1] A muon source.
[2] A storage ring.
[3] Appropriate detection equipment.
Briefly put, muons at rest don't last as long as muons
in motion (as observed by the guy in the long white coat,
anyway).

Yes. See the reference in the FAQ to Bailey et al, who actually
performed this experiment. But I doubt they wore long white coats (at
CERN such garb is used only in clean rooms; jeans and T-shirts are much
more common (:-)).


Admittedly, this experiment isn't quite the Twin Paradox,

Sure it is: the muons traveling around the ring and back to their
starting point experience less elapsed proper time than a (hypothetical)
muon remaining at rest at their starting point. While the experimenters
did not actually measure the at-rest muon, other experimenters have done so.

The clocks inside muons are different from human-built clocks,
and the only way to observe their elapsed proper time is by
measuring their decay rate. But in SR that's a mere technical
complication unrelated to the twin paradox.


The only other thing I can think of is a
SLAC-like affair which has two accelerators connected
end-to-end. The muons enter the one accelerator, exit
it, then enter the other accelerator which functions as
a *decelerator*, then an accelerator again, firing the
muons back at the first accelerator, which decelerates
them again.

Look up "muon collider". But the design and physics goals of such a
machine are VERY different from what you describe. And it's not clear at
all how your description relates to a twin scenario.

Bottom line: the twin "paradox" is quite real. And the resolution
offered by SR is completely adequate and consistent with actual
experimental measurements. The many people around here that do not
accept the SR description simply do not understand SR. shrug

Indeed...
A pardox results from an error in mathematics or logic. In this
case the error is quite real.

Sue...


Remember the meaning of "paradox" here is a _SEEMING_
contradiction, not an actual one.


Tom Roberts

The Ghost In The Machine wrote:
A variant of the Twin Paradox is extremely easy to
demonstrate if one has the following:
[1] A muon source.
[2] A storage ring.
[3] Appropriate detection equipment.
Briefly put, muons at rest don't last as long as muons
in motion (as observed by the guy in the long white coat,
anyway).

Yes. See the reference in the FAQ to Bailey et al, who actually
performed this experiment. But I doubt they wore long white coats (at
CERN such garb is used only in clean rooms; jeans and T-shirts are much
more common (:-)).


Admittedly, this experiment isn't quite the Twin Paradox,

Sure it is: the muons traveling around the ring and back to their
starting point experience less elapsed proper time than a (hypothetical)
muon remaining at rest at their starting point. While the experimenters
did not actually measure the at-rest muon, other experimenters have done so.

The clocks inside muons are different from human-built clocks,
and the only way to observe their elapsed proper time is by
measuring their decay rate. But in SR that's a mere technical
complication unrelated to the twin paradox.


The only other thing I can think of is a
SLAC-like affair which has two accelerators connected
end-to-end. The muons enter the one accelerator, exit
it, then enter the other accelerator which functions as
a *decelerator*, then an accelerator again, firing the
muons back at the first accelerator, which decelerates
them again.

Look up "muon collider". But the design and physics goals of such a
machine are VERY different from what you describe. And it's not clear at
all how your description relates to a twin scenario.

Bottom line: the twin "paradox" is quite real. And the resolution
offered by SR is completely adequate and consistent with actual
experimental measurements. The many people around here that do not
accept the SR description simply do not understand SR. shrug

Remember the meaning of "paradox" here is a _SEEMING_
contradiction, not an actual one.


Tom Roberts

TERRORIST ALERT!!
This poster sends followups to "alt.idiots". He seems to have recently
started to get involved in politics as he also posts to
"alt.politics.immigration", where he stated: "Heh. Give the suicide
one last thing to hate about the world.. that's
sorta funny, a pretty good cartoon could come of that."

He seems to have undergone a recent change in behaviour, which could
indicate he should be watched closelv. He is from immigrant roots but
seems to have little if any tolerance for other's roots.

Let us hope that he stops his Nazi-like behaviour he has begun here.

JohnM, I was just using the vernacular of UA, et al, to ensure they
understood my meaning. It worked for you, no? And whether you think
so or not, they really do deserve it as they started, just like you
started this little game here. You're not so nice yourself, so I'm
responding to your terrorist acts.

Rules of engagement he React in kind!

Now, for the sensitive part of your soul: Everyone does it and no one
should be ashamed of doing it, nor deny they do it. It's just that no
one talks about it. When you can't get it up anymore, even with some
help, why go on? Do you still feel like going on, JohnM?

JohnM wrote:
TomGee wrote:
Way to go, Mike. Stick it in his face and shove it deep! No one
(except mebbe Bilge) deserves it more.


Way to go, tom, "shove it in deep" eh? You're getting excited and
letting more of yourself show than you realize, calm down and wipe your
screen off..

I disagree, Sue, that it is not a physical effect. It affects the rate
of aging and aging is physical so it the effect is a physical one. Not
in s-t, of course, since that place is fictional, but in our real
universe.

Even if the TP is a math construct of SR, there is another example of
time dilation which I posted awhile back and no one was ever able to
say it does not physically happen. I will get back to you on that
one shortly.

Sue writes:
A pardox results from an error in mathematics or logic. In this
case the error is quite real.

No, that's incorrect. The word "paradox" is used in different
ways. In the case of the twin paradox, it means a result
that is strongly counter-intuitive, not an actual inconsistency.

"TERRORIST ALERT"

This poster cross posts to various, unrelated newsgroups.

His constant production of spurious, off topic nonsense is coupled with his
beliefs that he is the only person on Usenet who should have any rights. He
thinks he is the final arbiter in who can post what, where and how they can
set up their message headers.

He will trample on your rights while claiming that his are more important.
This is a classic behaviour pattern for him. He will whine on about everyone
who disagrees with him being a Nazi.

For those whose groups shouldn't get his messages I am sorry. Follow ups are
edited to a more appropriate group.

"TomGee" wrote in message
oups.com...
TERRORIST ALERT!!
This poster sends followups to "alt.idiots". He seems to have recently
started to get involved in politics as he also posts to
"alt.politics.immigration", where he stated: "Heh. Give the suicide
one last thing to hate about the world.. that's
sorta funny, a pretty good cartoon could come of that."

He seems to have undergone a recent change in behaviour, which could
indicate he should be watched closelv. He is from immigrant roots but
seems to have little if any tolerance for other's roots.

Let us hope that he stops his Nazi-like behaviour he has begun here.

JohnM, I was just using the vernacular of UA, et al, to ensure they
understood my meaning. It worked for you, no? And whether you think
so or not, they really do deserve it as they started, just like you
started this little game here. You're not so nice yourself, so I'm
responding to your terrorist acts.

Rules of engagement he React in kind!

Now, for the sensitive part of your soul: Everyone does it and no one
should be ashamed of doing it, nor deny they do it. It's just that no
one talks about it. When you can't get it up anymore, even with some
help, why go on? Do you still feel like going on, JohnM?

JohnM wrote:
TomGee wrote:
Way to go, Mike. Stick it in his face and shove it deep! No one
(except mebbe Bilge) deserves it more.


Way to go, tom, "shove it in deep" eh? You're getting excited and
letting more of yourself show than you realize, calm down and wipe your
screen off..

"SDaryl" wrote in message oups.com...
Sue writes:
A pardox results from an error in mathematics or logic. In this
case the error is quite real.

No, that's incorrect. The word "paradox" is used in different
ways. In the case of the twin paradox, it means a result
that is strongly counter-intuitive, not an actual inconsistency.


This is science and science costs money.
The taxpayer decides how it is used.
No balanced equations = No money. ;-)

Sue...

TERRORISt ALERT!! T. Wake sends your replies to alt.morons. Reviewing
his recent posts show that he offers no ideas of his own nor any
constructive posits, but only attacks posters with whom he disagrees by
using vile and false accusations plus personal attacks. His posting
history is filled with such attacks in these science ngs. Look it up
for proof of what I'm saying.


T Wake wrote:
"TERRORIST ALERT"

This poster cross posts to various, unrelated newsgroups.


Oh, mama, if that was true it would be a serious crime even bigger than
the terrorist tactics of sending replies to groups like "alt.morons",
and I would deserve to be spat upon and my posts sent to other than
where intended.


His constant production of spurious, off topic nonsense is coupled with his
beliefs that he is the only person on Usenet who should have any rights.


False, on both counts. None of what I post is off-topic nor do I
believe I should have more rights than anyone else. That is what is in
T asleep's head, and he is trying to transfer it to me. He thinks he
has the right to send posts not to where they may better go, as he
claims, but to a ng set up precisely for terrorists to send them. It's
all a big joke to them, him and Bilge et al, which shows their fears at
being found inadequate as persons.


He
thinks he is the final arbiter in who can post what, where and how they can
set up their message headers.


That is another lie which can be shown by reviewing my posts which show
nothing of the kind. OTOH, 'asleep's vile attacks on everyone (even
Bilge hisself) show that what he ascribes to me is actually what he
himself does.


He will trample on your rights while claiming that his are more important.


Another lie brought up by him and Bilge to try to justify their vile
acts of terrorism in these ngs.


This is a classic behaviour pattern for him. He will whine on about everyone
who disagrees with him being a Nazi.


Another attempt at transference. His classic behavior pattern is eaily
seen in his posts which are easily available for all to see. He is the
one whose posts are nothing but whining about almost every person who
ever posts here. He is trying his old Nazi trick to accuse me of what
he does.


For those whose groups shouldn't get his messages I am sorry.


Review his posts and I think you will see he cannot possibly feel sorry
for anyone but himself.


Follow ups are
edited to a more appropriate group.


He thinks you're so stupid as to believe that he does that. What he
does is send your post to a group which HE deems appropriate, but which
of course is not, ever, but he thinks you're too stupid to believe
otherwise.


"TomGee" wrote in message
oups.com...
TERRORIST ALERT!!
This poster sends followups to "alt.idiots". He seems to have recently
started to get involved in politics as he also posts to
"alt.politics.immigration", where he stated: "Heh. Give the suicide
one last thing to hate about the world.. that's
sorta funny, a pretty good cartoon could come of that."

He seems to have undergone a recent change in behaviour, which could
indicate he should be watched closelv. He is from immigrant roots but
seems to have little if any tolerance for other's roots.

Let us hope that he stops his Nazi-like behaviour he has begun here.

JohnM, I was just using the vernacular of UA, et al, to ensure they
understood my meaning. It worked for you, no? And whether you think
so or not, they really do deserve it as they started, just like you
started this little game here. You're not so nice yourself, so I'm
responding to your terrorist acts.

Rules of engagement he React in kind!

Now, for the sensitive part of your soul: Everyone does it and no one
should be ashamed of doing it, nor deny they do it. It's just that no
one talks about it. When you can't get it up anymore, even with some
help, why go on? Do you still feel like going on, JohnM?

JohnM wrote:
TomGee wrote:
Way to go, Mike. Stick it in his face and shove it deep! No one
(except mebbe Bilge) deserves it more.


Way to go, tom, "shove it in deep" eh? You're getting excited and
letting more of yourself show than you realize, calm down and wipe your
screen off..