EL wrote:
[Bilge wrote]
Henry Haapalainen:

Let's make this simple. My claim was that in free fall all the atomic clocks
run with the same speed. If somebody can find proof that this is not the
case, he will win the promised reward.


Free fall relates to an object moving in a gravitational field (current
physics). Since gravitation affects motion (Classical physics), and
motion affects an object's time rate, a clock in free fall runs slower
as it falls (SR's Twin Paradox), because its rate of fall increases
(Newton).

Now, where do I collect my winnings?

"TomGee" kirjoitti viestissä
oups.com...

EL wrote:
[Bilge wrote]
Henry Haapalainen:

Let's make this simple. My claim was that in free fall all the atomic
clocks
run with the same speed. If somebody can find proof that this is not
the
case, he will win the promised reward.


Free fall relates to an object moving in a gravitational field (current
physics). Since gravitation affects motion (Classical physics), and
motion affects an object's time rate, a clock in free fall runs slower
as it falls (SR's Twin Paradox), because its rate of fall increases
(Newton).

Now, where do I collect my winnings?

Maby you should try a loan from a bank.

Henry Haapalainen
http://www.wakkanet.fi/~fields/

Oh Henry, you didn't like my answer? How bout this: If all clocks are
released into the same gravitational field, they will all run the same,
but otherwise, their time rates will depend on the speed they had when
they entered the gravitational field. Since they will accelerate at
the same speed wrt the pull of gravity, if their speeds were different
when they entered the field, they will free fall at different speeds,
and since time rates depend on speed, the clocks will then run
different.

Better? Okay now, which bank?

"TomGee" wrote in message
oups.com...

Oh Henry, you didn't like my answer? How bout this: If all clocks are
released into the same gravitational field, they will all run the same,
but otherwise, their time rates will depend on the speed they had when
they entered the gravitational field.

Doesn't the strength oif the gravitational field matter to you?

Anyway, I wonder what you mean by "enter" a gravitational field, as an
object that approaches a gravitational field in order to "enter" it has been
in the field all along.

TomGee wrote:
EL wrote:
[Bilge wrote]
Henry Haapalainen:

Let's make this simple. My claim was that in free fall all the atomic clocks
run with the same speed. If somebody can find proof that this is not the
case, he will win the promised reward.


Free fall relates to an object moving in a gravitational field (current
physics). Since gravitation affects motion (Classical physics), and
motion affects an object's time rate, a clock in free fall runs slower
as it falls (SR's Twin Paradox), because its rate of fall increases
(Newton).

Now, where do I collect my winnings?

Your winnings are in a folder at the Smithsonian.

P2723-7-92, Repair S/N P-28 Maser, 07/06/92-01/07/93
P2724-7-92, Investigations of Atomic Physics with a Cryogenic Hydrogen
Maser, 07/06/92-07/14/92
P2725-7-92, Cont'd NAS8-39194 NASA/MSFC, PI-Vessot , Missing Folder
P2726-7-92, A Co-Investigator for the Magellan Mission Radar
Investigation Group (RADIG), 07/08/92-07/15/92

http://siarchives.si.edu/findingaids/fa99-171.html


By dividing the rate of pulses from the rocket clock
(red curve) by the square root of the rate of transponded
pulses (green curve), one gets the blue curve which just
shows the gravitational effect on clock rates. Note that
shaking during launch may change the frequency of the
rocket clock, which will move the blue curve up and down,
but will not change its shape. The clock was in free fall
during the entire time that data was taken.
http://www.astro.ucla.edu/~wright/vessot.htm

http://www.cooldictionary.com/words/...hift.wikipedia
http://arxiv.org/abs/physics/9907017

Sue...

TomGee wrote:
EL wrote:
[Bilge wrote]
Henry Haapalainen:

Let's make this simple. My claim was that in free fall all the atomic clocks
run with the same speed. If somebody can find proof that this is not the
case, he will win the promised reward.


Free fall relates to an object moving in a gravitational field (current
physics). Since gravitation affects motion (Classical physics), and
motion affects an object's time rate,

motion affects the time observed over an
electromagnetic path of changing length.


a clock in free fall runs slower

a clock in free fall is observed *as tho* it is
running at a different rate.

as it falls (SR's Twin Paradox), because its rate of fall increases
(Newton).

Why would anyone offer a Paradox as proof of something?



Now, where do I collect my winnings?

Contact the SIA Reference Staff for further information (call
202-357-1420)
http://siarchives.si.edu/findingaids/fa99-171.html ;-)

Sue...

Fred wrote:
"TomGee" wrote in message
oups.com...

Oh Henry, you didn't like my answer? How bout this: If all clocks are
released into the same gravitational field, they will all run the same,
but otherwise, their time rates will depend on the speed they had when
they entered the gravitational field.

Doesn't the strength oif the gravitational field matter to you?


Yes, of course, but we are assuming that Henry meant all objects are
falling in the same strength gravitational field which BTW gets
stronger the closer they fall toward the source which in turn explains
why the objects speed up as they fall.


Anyway, I wonder what you mean by "enter" a gravitational field, as an
object that approaches a gravitational field in order to "enter" it has been
in the field all along.


Fair question, but valid only if one agrees that gravitation is
everywhere. Otherwise, we can assume the objects moved into the field.
But let's say they are all already in the same field at the same
strength level, but moving at different speeds. They will continue to
accelerate at different speeds.

Now Sue, that seems to refer to a single clock, whereas our discussion
is about several clocks moving in free fall.

TomGee wrote:
Now Sue, that seems to refer to a single clock, whereas our discussion
is about several clocks moving in free fall.

If they are all the same distance from the observer
then they should all look the same.

If the path length varies, they will look different.

Sue...

Pass go, collect $200 stay out of jail
.... but please don't
tell us that clocks measure time. Some
are better accelerometers that others tho.

;-)
Sue...

Yes, Sue, they should all look the same, but no one has mentioned
anything about observers.