In article .com,
"Pentcho Valev" wrote:

Critics are usually trying to give some account of relativity as if it
were a normal theory where some inferences may be valid, others not,
some results may be confirmed by experiment, others not etc. That is
not the case. We have an equivalent of "The greenness of the crocodile
exceeds its length" which infects with its idiocy everybody, even
critics. The moment the Juggler managed to convince the world that "I
measure your clock to be slower than mine whereas you measure mine to
be slower than yours" and "I measure your stick to be shorter than mine
whereas you measure mine to be shorter than yours" are meaningful
statements, the collective madness supplanted science. The infection is
incurable, like HIV. The only (small) hope lies in the fact that the
initiated are gradually removing relativity from their public
performances. So it may imperceptibly disappear one day.

Pentcho Valev

***{It is Einstein's mathematics, not his interpretive metaphysics, that
is supported by experimental evidence. Most of his critics, however,
have not grasped that distinction. When they do, the "collective
madness" will begin to rapidly recede. --MJ}***

On 27 Jun 2005 23:02:37 EDT, Mitchell Jones wrote:

In article .com,
"Pentcho Valev" wrote:

Critics are usually trying to give some account of relativity as if it
were a normal theory where some inferences may be valid, others not,
some results may be confirmed by experiment, others not etc. That is
not the case. We have an equivalent of "The greenness of the crocodile
exceeds its length" which infects with its idiocy everybody, even
critics. The moment the Juggler managed to convince the world that "I
measure your clock to be slower than mine whereas you measure mine to
be slower than yours" and "I measure your stick to be shorter than mine
whereas you measure mine to be shorter than yours" are meaningful
statements, the collective madness supplanted science. The infection is
incurable, like HIV. The only (small) hope lies in the fact that the
initiated are gradually removing relativity from their public
performances. So it may imperceptibly disappear one day.

Pentcho Valev

***{It is Einstein's mathematics, not his interpretive metaphysics, that
is supported by experimental evidence. Most of his critics, however,
have not grasped that distinction. When they do, the "collective
madness" will begin to rapidly recede. --MJ}***

Can you point out Einstein's SR's mathematics that was/were unique
and first proposed by him?

Paul Stowe

Paul Stowe wrote:
On 27 Jun 2005 23:02:37 EDT, Mitchell Jones wrote:


In article .com,
"Pentcho Valev" wrote:


Critics are usually trying to give some account of relativity as if it
were a normal theory where some inferences may be valid, others not,
some results may be confirmed by experiment, others not etc. That is
not the case. We have an equivalent of "The greenness of the crocodile
exceeds its length" which infects with its idiocy everybody, even
critics. The moment the Juggler managed to convince the world that "I
measure your clock to be slower than mine whereas you measure mine to
be slower than yours" and "I measure your stick to be shorter than mine
whereas you measure mine to be shorter than yours" are meaningful
statements, the collective madness supplanted science. The infection is
incurable, like HIV. The only (small) hope lies in the fact that the
initiated are gradually removing relativity from their public
performances. So it may imperceptibly disappear one day.

Pentcho Valev

***{It is Einstein's mathematics, not his interpretive metaphysics, that
is supported by experimental evidence. Most of his critics, however,
have not grasped that distinction. When they do, the "collective
madness" will begin to rapidly recede. --MJ}***


Can you point out Einstein's SR's mathematics that was/were unique
and first proposed by him?

Paul Stowe

E = mc^2

On Tue, 28 Jun 2005 03:15:54 GMT, Sam Wormley wrote:

Paul Stowe wrote:
On 27 Jun 2005 23:02:37 EDT, Mitchell Jones wrote:


In article .com,
"Pentcho Valev" wrote:


Critics are usually trying to give some account of relativity as if it
were a normal theory where some inferences may be valid, others not,
some results may be confirmed by experiment, others not etc. That is
not the case. We have an equivalent of "The greenness of the crocodile
exceeds its length" which infects with its idiocy everybody, even
critics. The moment the Juggler managed to convince the world that "I
measure your clock to be slower than mine whereas you measure mine to
be slower than yours" and "I measure your stick to be shorter than mine
whereas you measure mine to be shorter than yours" are meaningful
statements, the collective madness supplanted science. The infection is
incurable, like HIV. The only (small) hope lies in the fact that the
initiated are gradually removing relativity from their public
performances. So it may imperceptibly disappear one day.

Pentcho Valev

***{It is Einstein's mathematics, not his interpretive metaphysics, that
is supported by experimental evidence. Most of his critics, however,
have not grasped that distinction. When they do, the "collective
madness" will begin to rapidly recede. --MJ}***


Can you point out Einstein's SR's mathematics that was/were unique
and first proposed by him?

E = mc^2

http://www.wbabin.net/ajay/sharma3.htm

Paul Stowe

In article ,
Paul Stowe wrote:

On 27 Jun 2005 23:02:37 EDT, Mitchell Jones wrote:

In article .com,
"Pentcho Valev" wrote:

Critics are usually trying to give some account of relativity as if it
were a normal theory where some inferences may be valid, others not,
some results may be confirmed by experiment, others not etc. That is
not the case. We have an equivalent of "The greenness of the crocodile
exceeds its length" which infects with its idiocy everybody, even
critics. The moment the Juggler managed to convince the world that "I
measure your clock to be slower than mine whereas you measure mine to
be slower than yours" and "I measure your stick to be shorter than mine
whereas you measure mine to be shorter than yours" are meaningful
statements, the collective madness supplanted science. The infection is
incurable, like HIV. The only (small) hope lies in the fact that the
initiated are gradually removing relativity from their public
performances. So it may imperceptibly disappear one day.

Pentcho Valev

***{It is Einstein's mathematics, not his interpretive metaphysics, that
is supported by experimental evidence. Most of his critics, however,
have not grasped that distinction. When they do, the "collective
madness" will begin to rapidly recede. --MJ}***

Can you point out Einstein's SR's mathematics that was/were unique
and first proposed by him?

***{Of course not. It is an eclectic stew of borrowings from others. :-)
--MJ}***

Paul Stowe

Yes...
That is the original poster's point. When well meaning "spoonbenders"
cobble up an experiment like H&K or GPS Doppler, it is doomed to
failure... so they try end up trying to apply metaphysics to the
experimental data... which in some circles is called fraud.

AFAIK we don't know how to build a clock that *goes* as it is
*judged*
http://www.bartleby.com/173/12.html
so it is pure folly when some experimentalist claims to have
demonstrated one.

Sue...

On 28 Jun 2005 00:54:08 EDT, Mitchell Jones wrote:

In article ,
Paul Stowe wrote:

On 27 Jun 2005 23:02:37 EDT, Mitchell Jones wrote:

[Snip...]

***{It is Einstein's mathematics, not his interpretive metaphysics, that
is supported by experimental evidence. Most of his critics, however,
have not grasped that distinction. When they do, the "collective
madness" will begin to rapidly recede. --MJ}***

Can you point out Einstein's SR's mathematics that was/were unique
and first proposed by him?

***{Of course not. It is an eclectic stew of borrowings from others. :-)
--MJ}***

In fact, there is nothing new, unique to, nor any previously
undiscovered empirical mathematical relationships or expressions in
Einstein's 1905 paper. The only thing that is unique, a metaphysical
philosophy.

This fact is what probably sealed the fate on any possibility of the
Nobel for him on these particular topics. While most popularly famous
for these, the fact is, Hilbert, Poincare', Lorentz, and others
contributed significantly to the mathematical framework of these and
the Nobel judges were well aware of this. IOW Einstein did not work
in a vacuum and single handedly develop these theories from scratch.

The fact is, had Einstein delayed publication of his GR paper by just
a month, Hilbert would have been first to publish.

http://www-groups.dcs.st-and.ac.uk/~.../Einstein.html

Paul Stowe

Paul Stowe wrote:
The fact is, had Einstein delayed publication of his GR paper by just
a month, Hilbert would have been first to publish.

http://www-groups.dcs.st-and.ac.uk/~.../Einstein.html

Minus the field equations.

--
Rich

On 29 Jun 2005 15:46:23 -0700, "RichD" wrote:

Paul Stowe wrote:

The fact is, had Einstein delayed publication of his GR paper by just
a month, Hilbert would have been first to publish.

http://www-groups.dcs.st-and.ac.uk/~.../Einstein.html

Minus the field equations.

"The final steps to the theory of general relativity were taken
by Einstein and Hilbert at almost the same time. BOTH had
recognised flaws in Einstein's October 1914 work and a
correspondence between the two men took place in November 1915.
How much they learnt from each other is hard to measure but the
FACT that they both discovered the same final form of the
gravitational FIELD EQUATIONS within days of each other must
indicate that their exchange of ideas was helpful. {...}
Five days before Einstein submitted his 25 November paper
Hilbert had submitted a paper The foundations of physics which
also contained the CORRECT FIELD EQUATIONS for gravitation.
Hilbert's paper contains some important contributions to
relativity not found in Einstein's work. "

See:
http://www-groups.dcs.st-and.ac.uk/~...elativity.html

Paul Stowe

Paul Stowe wrote:
The fact is, had Einstein delayed publication of his GR paper by just
a month, Hilbert would have been first to publish.

http://www-groups.dcs.st-and.ac.uk/~.../Einstein.html

Minus the field equations.

"The final steps to the theory of general relativity were taken
by Einstein and Hilbert at almost the same time. BOTH had
recognised flaws in Einstein's October 1914 work and a
correspondence between the two men took place in November 1915.
How much they learnt from each other is hard to measure but the
FACT that they both discovered the same final form of the
gravitational FIELD EQUATIONS within days of each other must
indicate that their exchange of ideas was helpful. {...}
Five days before Einstein submitted his 25 November paper
Hilbert had submitted a paper The foundations of physics which
also contained the CORRECT FIELD EQUATIONS for gravitation.
Hilbert's paper contains some important contributions to
relativity not found in Einstein's work. "

See:
http://www-groups.dcs.st-and.ac.uk/~...elativity.html


"Many have claimed that in 1915 Hilbert discovered the correct field
equations for general relativity before Einstein... The article [11]
however, shows that this view is in error. In this paper the authors
show convincingly that Hilbert submitted his article on 20 November
1915... the proofs of Hilbert's paper (dated 6 December 1915) do not
contain the field equations."

http://www-groups.dcs.st-and.ac.uk/~...s/Hilbert.html


--
Rich