Bill Hobba wrote:
"p6" wrote in message
oups.com...
Your reasoning for such a statement would be greatly
appreciated.

Rest snipped

Bill

It's not my reasoning. The idea came from Brian Greene
in his "The Elegant Universe".

Others have posted the relevant section from The Elegant Universe
and
that
is not what he is saying at all.

One time I thought time
can slow down because matter is passing thru a very
dense aether where everything slows down.. but then
in the principle of relativity... each party can see
the other party slowing down.. so it's not just a
regional phenomena. Time is likely part of some energy
continuum where in the case of matter. Quantized
space/time function may be in effect such that matter can
only travel at c much like in Ultraviolet Catastrophe
where there is a limit to the energy produced.

Your word salad of physical concepts may have some meaning to you
but to
me
and I suggest others reading what you write it is meaningless. That
is
one
reason physics demands quantitative predictions that can be tested -
such
can not be misunderstood. Got any of those?

Bill

The next paragraph gives the relevant passage from Brian Greene.
Notice he is simply discussing how time can be seen as a
dimension in a conceptual sense and for the sake of illustration.

Sure - no problemo.

I add the comment of what possible deeper mechanisms may be
involved. Do not assume that there is no mystery of how time can
be affected by motion, etc.

SR does not say time is affected by motion. Proper time always remains
the
same. It is exactly the same as rotating a rod. Lay the rod on the x
axis
and the x axis indicates its full length. Rotate it and the length as
indicated by the length of the x axis changes - but its length has not.
Exactly what deeper mechanism is at work is changing the length of the x
axis? The answer is none. It is simply geometry at work and a logical
consequence of the fact the length is unchanged by the rotation. The
same
for SR - the proper time remains unchanged but you have rotated it via
hyperbolic rotation when you measure if from a frame moving at constant
velocity.

Without knowing the causal mechanisms,

What is the casual mechanism that causes the length indicated by the x
axis
to change when a rod is rotated?

It's perspective.

Wrong - perceptive is an optical illusion that causes parallel lines to
appear to meet at a vanishing point. The changing length of the x axis is
geometry - just like the phenomena of time dilation is geometry.

I'm using the word perspective in a generic sense.


But there is a whole world of difference between
your example and time. If we are both 50 yrs old and I travel near
the speed of light in the cosmos and come back after years (what
I thought years), your age will be like 75 while I'm only 50+.

The principle of maximal ageing (a geometric principle) at work.

What is the causal mechanisms of this time relativity.

You follow different world lines.

That is what I'm talking about. You can't give an example like the rod
length thing since time is a lot different.

Yes it is different because it involves hyperbolic rotation - but otherwise
it is exactly the same.

You can slip it under
the rug by saying time is just a coordinate and like the rod. But
it's not explaining the causal mechanisms but just covering it up.

You can not hide you do not understand relativity or even elementary stuff
like what perspective is yet claim that you do. You are a victim of
'Unskilled and Unaware of It: How Difficulties in Recognizing One's Own
Incompetence Lead to Inflated Self-Assessments'
http://www.phule.net/mirrors/unskilled-and-unaware.html

Bill



p6


What the hell is the matter with you. I'm just asking how time
can slow down and what is the deeper mechanism. You can't treat
time as just some geometry. Time is obviously time. And if it
involves geometry. Why does spacetime do that. If you want to
hide the real explanation by flaming. Then **** off!!

p6

"p6" wrote in message
ups.com...


Bill Hobba wrote:
"p6" wrote in message
oups.com...
Your reasoning for such a statement would be greatly
appreciated.

Rest snipped

Bill

It's not my reasoning. The idea came from Brian Greene
in his "The Elegant Universe".

Others have posted the relevant section from The Elegant
Universe
and
that
is not what he is saying at all.

One time I thought time
can slow down because matter is passing thru a very
dense aether where everything slows down.. but then
in the principle of relativity... each party can see
the other party slowing down.. so it's not just a
regional phenomena. Time is likely part of some energy
continuum where in the case of matter. Quantized
space/time function may be in effect such that matter can
only travel at c much like in Ultraviolet Catastrophe
where there is a limit to the energy produced.

Your word salad of physical concepts may have some meaning to
you
but to
me
and I suggest others reading what you write it is meaningless.
That
is
one
reason physics demands quantitative predictions that can be
tested -
such
can not be misunderstood. Got any of those?

Bill

The next paragraph gives the relevant passage from Brian Greene.
Notice he is simply discussing how time can be seen as a
dimension in a conceptual sense and for the sake of illustration.

Sure - no problemo.

I add the comment of what possible deeper mechanisms may be
involved. Do not assume that there is no mystery of how time can
be affected by motion, etc.

SR does not say time is affected by motion. Proper time always
remains
the
same. It is exactly the same as rotating a rod. Lay the rod on the
x
axis
and the x axis indicates its full length. Rotate it and the length
as
indicated by the length of the x axis changes - but its length has
not.
Exactly what deeper mechanism is at work is changing the length of
the x
axis? The answer is none. It is simply geometry at work and a
logical
consequence of the fact the length is unchanged by the rotation.
The
same
for SR - the proper time remains unchanged but you have rotated it
via
hyperbolic rotation when you measure if from a frame moving at
constant
velocity.

Without knowing the causal mechanisms,

What is the casual mechanism that causes the length indicated by the
x
axis
to change when a rod is rotated?

It's perspective.

Wrong - perceptive is an optical illusion that causes parallel lines to
appear to meet at a vanishing point. The changing length of the x axis
is
geometry - just like the phenomena of time dilation is geometry.

I'm using the word perspective in a generic sense.

Ok. But regardless of how you use it geometry is still the cause.



But there is a whole world of difference between
your example and time. If we are both 50 yrs old and I travel near
the speed of light in the cosmos and come back after years (what
I thought years), your age will be like 75 while I'm only 50+.

The principle of maximal ageing (a geometric principle) at work.

What is the causal mechanisms of this time relativity.

You follow different world lines.

That is what I'm talking about. You can't give an example like the rod
length thing since time is a lot different.

Yes it is different because it involves hyperbolic rotation - but
otherwise
it is exactly the same.

You can slip it under
the rug by saying time is just a coordinate and like the rod. But
it's not explaining the causal mechanisms but just covering it up.

You can not hide you do not understand relativity or even elementary
stuff
like what perspective is yet claim that you do. You are a victim of
'Unskilled and Unaware of It: How Difficulties in Recognizing One's Own
Incompetence Lead to Inflated Self-Assessments'
http://www.phule.net/mirrors/unskilled-and-unaware.html

Bill



p6


What the hell is the matter with you. I'm just asking how time
can slow down and what is the deeper mechanism.

What the hell is the matter with you. It has been explained the reason
different observers measure time differently is geometry. That is the
reason. You for some reason fail to even consider the possibility.

You can't treat time as just some geometry.

You are confusing concepts in a most atrocious manner. No one claims time
is geometry (indeed the concept of time and geometry are incompatible
concepts like saying a length is geometry - geometries contain lengths - but
lengths are not geometry) - what is claimed is space-time events forms a
geometry (namely that of Minkowski space). And boosts (changes in
velocity ) correspond to hyperbolic rotations in such a space - see the
following http://nedwww.ipac.caltech.edu/level...l3/frames.html
under the heading of special relativity and flat space time.

Time is obviously time. And if it involves geometry.
Why does spacetime do that.

Space-time is the space of all space-time events. By the definition of
geometry is forms a geometry - that of Minnows space. You obviously have
grave difficulty with very fundamental concepts.

If you want to hide the real explanation by flaming. Then **** off!!

If you do not what to learn basic concepts than you **** off.

Bill


p6

Bill Hobba wrote:
"p6" wrote in message
ups.com...


Bill Hobba wrote:
"p6" wrote in message
oups.com...
Your reasoning for such a statement would be greatly
appreciated.

Rest snipped

Bill

It's not my reasoning. The idea came from Brian Greene
in his "The Elegant Universe".

Others have posted the relevant section from The Elegant
Universe
and
that
is not what he is saying at all.

One time I thought time
can slow down because matter is passing thru a very
dense aether where everything slows down.. but then
in the principle of relativity... each party can see
the other party slowing down.. so it's not just a
regional phenomena. Time is likely part of some energy
continuum where in the case of matter. Quantized
space/time function may be in effect such that matter can
only travel at c much like in Ultraviolet Catastrophe
where there is a limit to the energy produced.

Your word salad of physical concepts may have some meaning to
you
but to
me
and I suggest others reading what you write it is meaningless.
That
is
one
reason physics demands quantitative predictions that can be
tested -
such
can not be misunderstood. Got any of those?

Bill

The next paragraph gives the relevant passage from Brian Greene.
Notice he is simply discussing how time can be seen as a
dimension in a conceptual sense and for the sake of illustration.

Sure - no problemo.

I add the comment of what possible deeper mechanisms may be
involved. Do not assume that there is no mystery of how time can
be affected by motion, etc.

SR does not say time is affected by motion. Proper time always
remains
the
same. It is exactly the same as rotating a rod. Lay the rod on the
x
axis
and the x axis indicates its full length. Rotate it and the length
as
indicated by the length of the x axis changes - but its length has
not.
Exactly what deeper mechanism is at work is changing the length of
the x
axis? The answer is none. It is simply geometry at work and a
logical
consequence of the fact the length is unchanged by the rotation.
The
same
for SR - the proper time remains unchanged but you have rotated it
via
hyperbolic rotation when you measure if from a frame moving at
constant
velocity.

Without knowing the causal mechanisms,

What is the casual mechanism that causes the length indicated by the
x
axis
to change when a rod is rotated?

It's perspective.

Wrong - perceptive is an optical illusion that causes parallel lines to
appear to meet at a vanishing point. The changing length of the x axis
is
geometry - just like the phenomena of time dilation is geometry.

I'm using the word perspective in a generic sense.

Ok. But regardless of how you use it geometry is still the cause.



But there is a whole world of difference between
your example and time. If we are both 50 yrs old and I travel near
the speed of light in the cosmos and come back after years (what
I thought years), your age will be like 75 while I'm only 50+.

The principle of maximal ageing (a geometric principle) at work.

What is the causal mechanisms of this time relativity.

You follow different world lines.

That is what I'm talking about. You can't give an example like the rod
length thing since time is a lot different.

Yes it is different because it involves hyperbolic rotation - but
otherwise
it is exactly the same.

You can slip it under
the rug by saying time is just a coordinate and like the rod. But
it's not explaining the causal mechanisms but just covering it up.

You can not hide you do not understand relativity or even elementary
stuff
like what perspective is yet claim that you do. You are a victim of
'Unskilled and Unaware of It: How Difficulties in Recognizing One's Own
Incompetence Lead to Inflated Self-Assessments'
http://www.phule.net/mirrors/unskilled-and-unaware.html

Bill



p6


What the hell is the matter with you. I'm just asking how time
can slow down and what is the deeper mechanism.

What the hell is the matter with you. It has been explained the reason
different observers measure time differently is geometry. That is the
reason. You for some reason fail to even consider the possibility.

You can't treat time as just some geometry.

You are confusing concepts in a most atrocious manner. No one claims time
is geometry (indeed the concept of time and geometry are incompatible
concepts like saying a length is geometry - geometries contain lengths - but
lengths are not geometry) - what is claimed is space-time events forms a
geometry (namely that of Minkowski space). And boosts (changes in
velocity ) correspond to hyperbolic rotations in such a space - see the
following http://nedwww.ipac.caltech.edu/level...l3/frames.html
under the heading of special relativity and flat space time.

Time is obviously time. And if it involves geometry.
Why does spacetime do that.

Space-time is the space of all space-time events. By the definition of
geometry is forms a geometry - that of Minnows space. You obviously have
grave difficulty with very fundamental concepts.

If you want to hide the real explanation by flaming. Then **** off!!

If you do not what to learn basic concepts than you **** off.

Bill


p6


What I'm seeking to know is what is behind or the construtions of
the geometry of the Minkowsi space. M-theory says how there may
be as many as 11 dimensions and multi brane universes and our world
may be justa brane floating in a higher brane. As long as there
is no definite answer. You can't say the concept of Minkowski Space
is the final answer. Who knows, the Minkowski Space may be just
a programming from higher dimensions. When investigating abductees
many years back. Many reported encountering Nordics who can stop
time. This is what I mean that there is a hidden mechanism behind
the geometry where one can take advantage of without relativistic
time effect. It's like one can control time directly. Of course,
if you believe all UFOs are 100% hoaxes. Then Einstein Minkowsi
space is your final word. I ignore UFO stuff nowadays. But let's
be open minded about the many brane worlds being explored by
M-theorists.

p6

"p6" wrote in message
oups.com...


Bill Hobba wrote:
"p6" wrote in message
ups.com...


Bill Hobba wrote:
"p6" wrote in message
oups.com...
Your reasoning for such a statement would be greatly
appreciated.

Rest snipped

Bill

It's not my reasoning. The idea came from Brian Greene
in his "The Elegant Universe".

Others have posted the relevant section from The Elegant
Universe
and
that
is not what he is saying at all.

One time I thought time
can slow down because matter is passing thru a very
dense aether where everything slows down.. but then
in the principle of relativity... each party can see
the other party slowing down.. so it's not just a
regional phenomena. Time is likely part of some energy
continuum where in the case of matter. Quantized
space/time function may be in effect such that matter can
only travel at c much like in Ultraviolet Catastrophe
where there is a limit to the energy produced.

Your word salad of physical concepts may have some meaning
to
you
but to
me
and I suggest others reading what you write it is
meaningless.
That
is
one
reason physics demands quantitative predictions that can be
tested -
such
can not be misunderstood. Got any of those?

Bill

The next paragraph gives the relevant passage from Brian
Greene.
Notice he is simply discussing how time can be seen as a
dimension in a conceptual sense and for the sake of
illustration.

Sure - no problemo.

I add the comment of what possible deeper mechanisms may be
involved. Do not assume that there is no mystery of how time
can
be affected by motion, etc.

SR does not say time is affected by motion. Proper time always
remains
the
same. It is exactly the same as rotating a rod. Lay the rod on
the
x
axis
and the x axis indicates its full length. Rotate it and the
length
as
indicated by the length of the x axis changes - but its length
has
not.
Exactly what deeper mechanism is at work is changing the length
of
the x
axis? The answer is none. It is simply geometry at work and a
logical
consequence of the fact the length is unchanged by the rotation.
The
same
for SR - the proper time remains unchanged but you have rotated
it
via
hyperbolic rotation when you measure if from a frame moving at
constant
velocity.

Without knowing the causal mechanisms,

What is the casual mechanism that causes the length indicated by
the
x
axis
to change when a rod is rotated?

It's perspective.

Wrong - perceptive is an optical illusion that causes parallel lines
to
appear to meet at a vanishing point. The changing length of the x
axis
is
geometry - just like the phenomena of time dilation is geometry.

I'm using the word perspective in a generic sense.

Ok. But regardless of how you use it geometry is still the cause.



But there is a whole world of difference between
your example and time. If we are both 50 yrs old and I travel near
the speed of light in the cosmos and come back after years (what
I thought years), your age will be like 75 while I'm only 50+.

The principle of maximal ageing (a geometric principle) at work.

What is the causal mechanisms of this time relativity.

You follow different world lines.

That is what I'm talking about. You can't give an example like the
rod
length thing since time is a lot different.

Yes it is different because it involves hyperbolic rotation - but
otherwise
it is exactly the same.

You can slip it under
the rug by saying time is just a coordinate and like the rod. But
it's not explaining the causal mechanisms but just covering it up.

You can not hide you do not understand relativity or even elementary
stuff
like what perspective is yet claim that you do. You are a victim of
'Unskilled and Unaware of It: How Difficulties in Recognizing One's
Own
Incompetence Lead to Inflated Self-Assessments'
http://www.phule.net/mirrors/unskilled-and-unaware.html

Bill



p6


What the hell is the matter with you. I'm just asking how time
can slow down and what is the deeper mechanism.

What the hell is the matter with you. It has been explained the reason
different observers measure time differently is geometry. That is the
reason. You for some reason fail to even consider the possibility.

You can't treat time as just some geometry.

You are confusing concepts in a most atrocious manner. No one claims
time
is geometry (indeed the concept of time and geometry are incompatible
concepts like saying a length is geometry - geometries contain lengths -
but
lengths are not geometry) - what is claimed is space-time events forms a
geometry (namely that of Minkowski space). And boosts (changes in
velocity ) correspond to hyperbolic rotations in such a space - see the
following
http://nedwww.ipac.caltech.edu/level...l3/frames.html
under the heading of special relativity and flat space time.

Time is obviously time. And if it involves geometry.
Why does spacetime do that.

Space-time is the space of all space-time events. By the definition of
geometry is forms a geometry - that of Minnows space. You obviously
have
grave difficulty with very fundamental concepts.

If you want to hide the real explanation by flaming. Then **** off!!

If you do not what to learn basic concepts than you **** off.

Bill


p6


What I'm seeking to know is what is behind or the construtions of
the geometry of the Minkowsi space.

Since it is deduceable from the POR the answer is obvious - the POR.
Specifically it is the symmetries implied by the POR that is the reason.

M-theory says how there may
be as many as 11 dimensions and multi brane universes and our world
may be justa brane floating in a higher brane.

So?

As long as there is no definite answer. You can't say the concept of
Minkowski Space
is the final answer.

The concept of Minkowski space is contained in and not contradicted by M
theory.

Who knows, the Minkowski Space may be just
a programming from higher dimensions.

It may be the result of stew colors cars as well.

When investigating abductees
many years back. Many reported encountering Nordics who can stop
time.

It is well known the abductee phenomena is a modern variant of the ancient
phenomena of seeing angels and such.

This is what I mean that there is a hidden mechanism behind
the geometry where one can take advantage of without relativistic
time effect. It's like one can control time directly. Of course,
if you believe all UFOs are 100% hoaxes. Then Einstein Minkowsi
space is your final word.

I never said it was the final word - I said its geometric properties
explained time dilation and the twin paradox.

Bill

I ignore UFO stuff nowadays. But let's
be open minded about the many brane worlds being explored by
M-theorists.

p6