A New Definition for "TIME"

**Bilge** · #11 November 9th 04 posted to sci.physics.relativity

kenseto:

You are a ****ing moron. I published my idea on universal time in 1993 in a
book (ISBN 0-9647136-0-8) entitled "Model Mechanics: A New Interpretation of

ISBN, is that ``Incremental Seto Bull**** Number?''

**kenseto** · #12 November 9th 04 posted to sci.physics.relativity

"The Ghost In The Machine" wrote in
message ...
In sci.physics.relativity, kenseto

wrote
on Mon, 08 Nov 2004 19:23:21 GMT
:

"The Ghost In The Machine" wrote in
message ...
In sci.physics.relativity, TomGee

wrote
on 6 Nov 2004 21:08:31 -0800
:
(Ken Seto) wrote in message
. com...
Einstein defined time as follows:
"Time is what the clock says"

This bogus simplestic definition led physicists to a cnetury of wild
goose chase.

A new definition for time is formulated as follows:
1. There is only universal time exists.
2. An interval of a clock second in the rest frame of the clock
(observer) will represent a specfic interval of universal time.
3. The observer can convert his interval of universal time (his
clock
second)into another frame using the the LT or IRT.
4. This means the a clcok second in different frames will have
different universal time content.

A word of caution to posters in science ngs. Ken Seto is looking for
ideas to incorporate into his own ideas. While that may be alright
in
the spirit of research, he is apparently not willing to give credit
where credit is due, so I would caution you to guard your
intellectual
property carefully. We do not need people like that in science, not
even in these discussions in ngs.

He posted at _sci.physics_ with the same title as this post (but
without the quotation marks around "TIME"). If you wish to learn
more
about what I say, please read the other thread to find out.
TomGee 110604

AFAICT, KenSeto's ideas are perfectly consistent; the main problem
is their practicality. For instance, the "standard meter"
would have to be adjustable and compute the meter
by first measuring the velocity relative to the U-clock.

No you misunderstood my ideas completely. The physical length
of a mter stick does not change at all.

Doesn't it? The SR Lorentz transform requires it to change, relative
to a moving observer.

x' = (x-vt) / sqrt(1-v^2/c^2)
t' = (t-vx/c^2) / sqrt(1-v^2/c^2)

The LT of length contraction is a re-statement of light path expansion.

The light path length of a meter istick is
dependent on the state of absolute motion of the stick.

So now we have two concepts: "standard length" and "light path length".
The latter is easy to measure -- two mirrors along the length to
the observer and a few other things, and one can compute it.

No...this procedure is based on the bogus idea that the mirrors are not in a
state of absolute motion. The proposed experiment in my paper will disprove
these erroneous assumptions.

How does one compute the former?

The length of a meter stick is its physical length. There is no need for
computation.

(Since velocity = distance over time, there are some interesting
secondary problems here. One way out is to measure the frequency
of the tickpips, or the U-clock carrier beam frequency, perhaps.)

I have no idea what you are talking about. I suggest that you visit the
thread "A Brief Description of IRT (Improved Relativity Theory"

And how else does one read the tickpips on a U-clock? The
U-clock is broadcasting the ticks.

The time for light to traverse a standard meter stick will represent an
interval of universal time. The atomic clock interval reading for this
interval of universal time is different in different frames. But these
different clock interval readings will represent the same interval off
universal time. Also these different clock interval readings will agree with
the result of the LT computations.

I really think that you need to understand IRT before we can discuss
intelligently. So here's a brief description of IRT:
__________________________________________________ _____
IRT (Improved Relativity Theory) is a New Theory of Motion.
It includes SR and GR as subsets. Its equations are valid in all
environments....including gravity.

The following is a brief description of IRT:
A. The postulates
1) The laws of physics based on a clock second and light path
length of a measuring rod are the same for all observers in
all inertial reference frames.
2) The speed of light in free space based on a clock second
and the light path length of a measuring rod has the same
mathematical ratio c in all directions and all inertial frames.
3) The laws of physics based on a defined absolute second
and the physical length of a rod is different in different frames
of reference.
4) The one-way speed of light in free space based on a defined absolute
second and the physical length of a measuring rod has a different
mathematical ratio for light speed in different inertial frames. The
speed of light based on a defined absolute second and the physical
length of a measuring rod is maximum in the rest frame of the aether.

B. The Consequences of these Postulates:
1.. The speed of light is not a universal constant. It is a constant math
ratio as follows:
Light path length of rod (299,792,458 m)/the absolute time content for a
clock second co-moving with the rod.
2. The physical length of a rod remains the same in all frames of reference.
The light path length of a rod changes with the state of absolute motion of
the rod. The higher is the state of absolute motion the longer is its
light path length.
3. The rate of a clock is dependent on the state of absolute motion of the
clock. The higher is the state of absolute motion the slower is its clock
rate.
4. Absolute time exists. The relationship between clock time and absolute
time is as follows: A clock second will contain a different amount of
absolute time in different state of absolute motion (different frames of
reference). The higher is the state of absolute motion of the clock the
higher is the absolute time content for a clock second.

C. The Math:

1. The time dilation (contraction) or expansion equations:
A and B are in relative motion from observer A's point of view:

Tab=Taa(Faa/Fab) OR Tab=Taa(Fab/Faa)

Taa=A clock time interval in observer A's frame
as measured by A
Tab= A's prediction of B's clock time interval for
an interval of Taa in his frame
Note: Even though Taa and Tab are two different clock time
intervals but in terms of absolute time content Taa=Tab

The light path length contraction or expansion equations for a physical rod:
Lab=Laa(Faa/Fab) OR Lab=Laa(Fab/Faa)

Laa=the light path length of a rod in A's frame as
measured by A.
Lab=the light path length of an identical rod in B's
frame as predicted by A
Note: Even though Laa and Lab are two different light
path lengths but these two light path lengths are
derived from identical rod that have the same
physical rod length. The different light path lengths
are the result of different states of absolute motion
of the rods.

2. The coordinate transform equations:
x'= Faa/Fab[x + t(Faa-Fab)(lambda)]
t'= Faa/Fab[t + x(Faa-Fab)/(Faa^2)(lambda)]
y'=y
z'=z

OR

x'= Fab/Faa[x - t(Faa-Fab)(lambda)]
t'= Fab/Faa[t - x(Faa-Fab)/(Faa^2)(lambda)]
y'=y
z'=z

A is the observer's frame (unprimed) and B is the observed frame (primed).
Faa = frequency of a standard light source in A's frame as measured by A.
Fab = frequency of an identical light source in B's frame as measured by A.
If Fab is not constant the mean value is used.
lambda = wave length of the standard light source in A's frame as measured
by A.

These coordinate transform equations are valid in all
environments ---including gravity. This means that
IRT includes SR/GR as subsets

3. Momentum of an object:
p=Mo(lambda)(Faa-Fab)

4. Kinetic Energy of an object::
K=Mo(Lambda)^2(Faa)^2(Faa/Fab-1)

5. Energy of a single particle:
E=Mo(Lambda)^2(Faa)^2

6. Gravtational Red or Blue Shift:
Delta (Faa) =Faa(1-Fab/Faa)
A positve value represents a red shift from A's location.
A negative value represents a blue shift from A's location

7. Gravitational Time Contraction or Expansion:
Delta(Taa)=Taa(1-Fab/Faa)
A positive value represents gravitational time contraction (dilation)
from A's location.
A negative value represents gravitational time expansion
from A's location.

8. The IRT procedure for determining the perihelion precession of
Mercury without recourse to GRT is:
a) Set up a corrdinate system for the Sun and Mervury.
b) Use the IRT Corrdinate tansformation equations to predict the
future positions of the Sun and Mercury.
c) The perihelion shift of Mercury will be revealed when these
future positions are plotted against time. Also, the value of the
shift can be determined from the plot.

Summarizing:
IRT is a complete theory of motion. It contains SR and GR as subsets.
It's equations are valid in all environments. In addition it resolves the
following observed difficulties of GR:
1. GR predicts that the expansion of the universe should be slowing down.
Actual observations show that the expansion is speeding up. IRT have no
such problem. It predicts what is observed.
2. GR gives the wrong prediction for the path of the space craft Pioneer 10.
IRT has no such problem. It predicts that the space craft is accelerating
toward the Sun because of a concentration of dark matter contained
within the solar system---especially around the Sun.
3. GR gives the wrong rotational curve for galaxies. Again IRT has no
such problem because IRT includes the effects of dark matter in its
calculations.

Ken Seto

**xxein** · #13 November 10th 04 posted to sci.physics.relativity

"kenseto" wrote in message .. .
"The Ghost In The Machine" wrote in
message ...
In sci.physics.relativity, kenseto

wrote
on Mon, 08 Nov 2004 19:23:21 GMT
:

"The Ghost In The Machine" wrote in
message ...
In sci.physics.relativity, TomGee

wrote
on 6 Nov 2004 21:08:31 -0800
:
(Ken Seto) wrote in message
. com...
Einstein defined time as follows:
"Time is what the clock says"

This bogus simplestic definition led physicists to a cnetury of wild
goose chase.

A new definition for time is formulated as follows:
1. There is only universal time exists.
2. An interval of a clock second in the rest frame of the clock
(observer) will represent a specfic interval of universal time.
3. The observer can convert his interval of universal time (his
clock
second)into another frame using the the LT or IRT.
4. This means the a clcok second in different frames will have
different universal time content.

A word of caution to posters in science ngs. Ken Seto is looking for
ideas to incorporate into his own ideas. While that may be alright
in
the spirit of research, he is apparently not willing to give credit
where credit is due, so I would caution you to guard your
intellectual
property carefully. We do not need people like that in science, not
even in these discussions in ngs.

He posted at _sci.physics_ with the same title as this post (but
without the quotation marks around "TIME"). If you wish to learn
more
about what I say, please read the other thread to find out.
TomGee 110604

AFAICT, KenSeto's ideas are perfectly consistent; the main problem
is their practicality. For instance, the "standard meter"
would have to be adjustable and compute the meter
by first measuring the velocity relative to the U-clock.

No you misunderstood my ideas completely. The physical length
of a mter stick does not change at all.

Doesn't it? The SR Lorentz transform requires it to change, relative
to a moving observer.

x' = (x-vt) / sqrt(1-v^2/c^2)
t' = (t-vx/c^2) / sqrt(1-v^2/c^2)

The LT of length contraction is a re-statement of light path expansion.

The light path length of a meter istick is
dependent on the state of absolute motion of the stick.

So now we have two concepts: "standard length" and "light path length".
The latter is easy to measure -- two mirrors along the length to
the observer and a few other things, and one can compute it.

No...this procedure is based on the bogus idea that the mirrors are not in a
state of absolute motion. The proposed experiment in my paper will disprove
these erroneous assumptions.

How does one compute the former?

The length of a meter stick is its physical length. There is no need for
computation.

(Since velocity = distance over time, there are some interesting
secondary problems here. One way out is to measure the frequency
of the tickpips, or the U-clock carrier beam frequency, perhaps.)

I have no idea what you are talking about. I suggest that you visit the
thread "A Brief Description of IRT (Improved Relativity Theory"

And how else does one read the tickpips on a U-clock? The
U-clock is broadcasting the ticks.

The time for light to traverse a standard meter stick will represent an
interval of universal time. The atomic clock interval reading for this
interval of universal time is different in different frames. But these
different clock interval readings will represent the same interval off
universal time. Also these different clock interval readings will agree with
the result of the LT computations.

I really think that you need to understand IRT before we can discuss
intelligently. So here's a brief description of IRT:
__________________________________________________ _____
IRT (Improved Relativity Theory) is a New Theory of Motion.
It includes SR and GR as subsets. Its equations are valid in all
environments....including gravity.

The following is a brief description of IRT:
A. The postulates
1) The laws of physics based on a clock second and light path
length of a measuring rod are the same for all observers in
all inertial reference frames.
2) The speed of light in free space based on a clock second
and the light path length of a measuring rod has the same
mathematical ratio c in all directions and all inertial frames.
3) The laws of physics based on a defined absolute second
and the physical length of a rod is different in different frames
of reference.
4) The one-way speed of light in free space based on a defined absolute
second and the physical length of a measuring rod has a different
mathematical ratio for light speed in different inertial frames. The
speed of light based on a defined absolute second and the physical
length of a measuring rod is maximum in the rest frame of the aether.

B. The Consequences of these Postulates:
1.. The speed of light is not a universal constant. It is a constant math
ratio as follows:
Light path length of rod (299,792,458 m)/the absolute time content for a
clock second co-moving with the rod.
2. The physical length of a rod remains the same in all frames of reference.
The light path length of a rod changes with the state of absolute motion of
the rod. The higher is the state of absolute motion the longer is its
light path length.
3. The rate of a clock is dependent on the state of absolute motion of the
clock. The higher is the state of absolute motion the slower is its clock
rate.
4. Absolute time exists. The relationship between clock time and absolute
time is as follows: A clock second will contain a different amount of
absolute time in different state of absolute motion (different frames of
reference). The higher is the state of absolute motion of the clock the
higher is the absolute time content for a clock second.

C. The Math:

1. The time dilation (contraction) or expansion equations:
A and B are in relative motion from observer A's point of view:

Tab=Taa(Faa/Fab) OR Tab=Taa(Fab/Faa)

Taa=A clock time interval in observer A's frame
as measured by A
Tab= A's prediction of B's clock time interval for
an interval of Taa in his frame
Note: Even though Taa and Tab are two different clock time
intervals but in terms of absolute time content Taa=Tab

The light path length contraction or expansion equations for a physical rod:
Lab=Laa(Faa/Fab) OR Lab=Laa(Fab/Faa)

Laa=the light path length of a rod in A's frame as
measured by A.
Lab=the light path length of an identical rod in B's
frame as predicted by A
Note: Even though Laa and Lab are two different light
path lengths but these two light path lengths are
derived from identical rod that have the same
physical rod length. The different light path lengths
are the result of different states of absolute motion
of the rods.

2. The coordinate transform equations:
x'= Faa/Fab[x + t(Faa-Fab)(lambda)]
t'= Faa/Fab[t + x(Faa-Fab)/(Faa^2)(lambda)]
y'=y
z'=z

OR

x'= Fab/Faa[x - t(Faa-Fab)(lambda)]
t'= Fab/Faa[t - x(Faa-Fab)/(Faa^2)(lambda)]
y'=y
z'=z

A is the observer's frame (unprimed) and B is the observed frame (primed).
Faa = frequency of a standard light source in A's frame as measured by A.
Fab = frequency of an identical light source in B's frame as measured by A.
If Fab is not constant the mean value is used.
lambda = wave length of the standard light source in A's frame as measured
by A.

These coordinate transform equations are valid in all
environments ---including gravity. This means that
IRT includes SR/GR as subsets

3. Momentum of an object:
p=Mo(lambda)(Faa-Fab)

4. Kinetic Energy of an object::
K=Mo(Lambda)^2(Faa)^2(Faa/Fab-1)

5. Energy of a single particle:
E=Mo(Lambda)^2(Faa)^2

6. Gravtational Red or Blue Shift:
Delta (Faa) =Faa(1-Fab/Faa)
A positve value represents a red shift from A's location.
A negative value represents a blue shift from A's location

7. Gravitational Time Contraction or Expansion:
Delta(Taa)=Taa(1-Fab/Faa)
A positive value represents gravitational time contraction (dilation)
from A's location.
A negative value represents gravitational time expansion
from A's location.

8. The IRT procedure for determining the perihelion precession of
Mercury without recourse to GRT is:
a) Set up a corrdinate system for the Sun and Mervury.
b) Use the IRT Corrdinate tansformation equations to predict the
future positions of the Sun and Mercury.
c) The perihelion shift of Mercury will be revealed when these
future positions are plotted against time. Also, the value of the
shift can be determined from the plot.

Summarizing:
IRT is a complete theory of motion. It contains SR and GR as subsets.
It's equations are valid in all environments. In addition it resolves the
following observed difficulties of GR:
1. GR predicts that the expansion of the universe should be slowing down.
Actual observations show that the expansion is speeding up. IRT have no
such problem. It predicts what is observed.
2. GR gives the wrong prediction for the path of the space craft Pioneer 10.
IRT has no such problem. It predicts that the space craft is accelerating
toward the Sun because of a concentration of dark matter contained
within the solar system---especially around the Sun.
3. GR gives the wrong rotational curve for galaxies. Again IRT has no
such problem because IRT includes the effects of dark matter in its
calculations.

Ken Seto

xxein: Ken wrote:
"B. The Consequences of these Postulates:
1.. The speed of light is not a universal constant. It is a constant
math
ratio as follows:
Light path length of rod (299,792,458 m)/the absolute time content for
a
clock second co-moving with the rod.
2. The physical length of a rod remains the same in all frames of
reference.
The light path length of a rod changes with the state of absolute
motion of
the rod. The higher is the state of absolute motion the longer is its
light path length.
3. The rate of a clock is dependent on the state of absolute motion of
the
clock. The higher is the state of absolute motion the slower is its
clock
rate.
4. Absolute time exists. The relationship between clock time and
absolute
time is as follows: A clock second will contain a different amount of
absolute time in different state of absolute motion (different frames
of
reference). The higher is the state of absolute motion of the clock
the
higher is the absolute time content for a clock second."

Sometimes you write with different words that help clarify what you
are portraying. This helps one to more completely understand your
thoughts.

Are you saying that the physical length of a rod is universally
constant (absolute), or are you saying that it is frame dependent and
relies on a frame dependent clockrate and a frame dependent lightspeed
to make it appear the same length?

Yes or no, and don't go overboard except to clarify whether you think
1) the absolute length of a moving rod remains the same, 2) it merely
appears the same in all frames, 3) it differs in the absolute, and
appears the same in all frames of measurement.

I'll warn in advance that logic only supports the third scenario
unless you can show otherwise. The proof is in the electromagnetic
make up of the rod that is as sensitive to the lightspeed that governs
the clock.

Ps: Do you know what a 3-d, omnidirectional lightclock is?

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