"Pax" wrote in message
m...

Somewhere it seems to have come across that I'm under the delusion I have
some revolutionary knowledge concerning light. I'm not. I also think
Einstein was correct... I'm just not so sure others are correct in their
interpretation of him.

You've just demonstrated one reason I feel that way, the swelling army of
Numberheads that have followed Einstein. Einstein was a THEORETICAL
Physicist, who used imagination, observational insight, and visualization
first and numbers last, but those who have come after, insisting they have
Einstein all knowed up, ride almost exclusively on numbers. Further, not
only do they have no imagination or insight themselves, they demonstrate
their insecurity with those who do by deriding them mercilessly. They have
become identical those very ones who almost kept us from ever having
Einstein.

Translation - math hurts my head so I do not want to study it. BTW while
Einstein certainly used 'imagination, observational insight, and
visualization' he combined it with mathematical insight, not numbers last.
In fact it is this (ie the ability to understand what the math is saying and
expressing the physics in mathematical form) that makes a great physicist
see - http://modeling.la.asu.edu/R&E/SecretsGenius.pdf. for what made
Eisnten great:

'His forte was in analyzing the physical meaning of the mathematics. Indeed,
such analysis is generally characteristic of the best work in theoretical
physics. I have heard the Nobel laureate Richard Feynman, himself a true
mathematical virtuoso, express this opinion forcefully, asserting that the
value of a paper on theoretical physics is inversely proportional to the
density of mathematics in it.'

And it is this same characteristic that made Feynman great. As James Gleick
said about Feynman:
http://www-gap.dcs.st-and.ac.uk/~his...s/Feynman.html

'This was Richard Feynman nearing the crest of his powers. At twenty-three
.... there was no physicist on earth who could match his exuberant command
over the native materials of theoretical science. It was not just a facility
at mathematics (though it had become clear ... that the mathematical
machinery emerging from the Wheeler-Feynman collaboration was beyond
Wheeler's own ability). Feynman seemed to possess a frightening ease with
the substance behind the equations, like Einstein at the same age, like the
Soviet physicist Lev Landau - but few others.'

It is this 'ease with the substance behind the equations' that is the true
source of Einstein's, Feynmans, Landaus, Diracs and other great theoretical
physicists 'magic'; not a shying away from math, but an embracing of it.


It's on the fine points concerning the constancy of c and WHY it's
constant
that logic breaks down for me, and "Because that's just the way it is"
isn't
an answer I have ever been able to take easily. It's not logical that the
only part of our universe that steps outside its laws is light.

And who or what determines the laws our universe operates by and what is
outside it or not? You? See the following for a much better discussion of
such matters: http://www.colorado.edu/philosophy/v...r/nothing.html.

Further,
it's illogical to the nth to reshape everything to fit a conundrum rather
than solving that mystery. But you're right, it could very well be that I
really don't understand Einstein, no matter how much I've studied him,
since
the necessary math area is where I'm crippled.

That is easily remedied - all you need is the desire.


Through the years, I've mentioned things on these newsgroups that have
given
those who do have the necessary math skills a new direction to explore.
The
most memorable was when I stated here and elsewhere that a Big Crunch was
not needed, all that was needed was for all the black holes to finally eat
everything. A couple of years after I had stated this... and was summarily
reprimanded for my stupidity... I read an article in Time outlining
exactly
what I'd said, complete with graphs and charts, and impressive full-color
graphics.

That's not the only time one of my "stupid" ideas have wound up being not
that stupid after all to you number-crunchers, it's just an example. No, I
don't have the math, but I do have a 160 IQ

With such an IQ then you should have no trouble in grasping the following::
Science is based on correspondence with experiment not philosophical mumbo
jumbo.

and a good grasp of Einstein's
logic through his copious visual demonstrations, especially since I'm also
a
spatial thinker capable of "seeing" what he's saying.

Get real - read Chapter 2 of Feynman - The Character of Physical Law - The
Relation of Mathematics to Physics. But then again he only had an IQ of 125
so what would he know.

Do I have an eye on
revolutionizing the world of Physics? Nope. I'm just extremely interested
in
the things that field covers, since the realm of Physics encompasses the
greatest mysteries of any age.

Then learn some math and actually study the details. For example, although
I have given the link many times, I think it may be helpful for you to see
an example of proper physical reasoning and what the true basis of SR is
http://groups.google.com/groups?q=To...ent.com&rnum=8.


If you don't want to be bothered with my stupid ideas, don't read me.


If you do not want peoples comments why post?

Bill


Be well - Pax



"Bilge" wrote in message
...
Pax:
In fact, what makes everyone so unrelentingly positive light HAS a
"speed"?
Einstein said: nothing could travel faster than light, not: nothing
can
travel faster than c. That mistatement by the majority of the
scientific
community has resulted in some embarrassment as colliders push ions to
all
but c without the need to use almost all the energy in the universe,

After pulling your head out, pull out your calculator and tell
me how much energy you think it requires to get 100 GeV center-of
momentum energy in a p-pbar collider.

as was stated (with such pompous certainty) would be necessary prior
to that accomplishment.

Not we - you.


Hawking stated (in years prior to the collider
accomplishments) that it would take all the energy in the universe to
push a
particle to c. It's now obvious, as it should have been all along,
that
any
SET velocity has a calcuable energy expenditure determined by the mass
of
the object placed in motion.

After again pulling your head out, try the calculator again.
Doesn't it embarrass you to post things you haven't bothered to
calculate?

[...]

What law states that our human limitations, both physically and
intellectually, are the criteria by which all the elements of the
universe
must operate?

Apparently none, since it appears the lichens have one up on you.

"Bill Hobba" wrote in message
...

Translation - math hurts my head so I do not want to study it.

No, actually quite the opposite, a love of math runs in my family. I did
quite well in the math I was allowed to take in school... which back then,
in that small town, was only as high as Algebra II, because females were not
allowed to study maths higher than that, but all they actually offered there
past Algebra was Trigonometry. However, I scored 100 as my final year grade
in Algebra I and 99 as my final year grade in Algebra II. Being female, I
did as I was expected to do, gave up my interest in math, and became a wife
and mother. I actually didn't even know that physics was a form of math back
then!

Now I'm 55, and a grandmother, but my interest in physics has just grown
over the years. I've noted with great appreciation that higher and higher
maths are being taught much earlier in school now, and NO one would dream of
denying a female the right to study them. My niece just obtained her
doctorate in math and has been offered a position as a math professor at
Texas A&M.

That's it for you as far as I'm concerned, because you are a closed-minded,
mental and emotional deficient, and I really can't afford the time it takes
to endure you.

Be well - Pax

"Pax" wrote in message
.. .

"Bill Hobba" wrote in message
...

Translation - math hurts my head so I do not want to study it.

No, actually quite the opposite, a love of math runs in my family. I did
quite well in the math I was allowed to take in school... which back then,
in that small town, was only as high as Algebra II, because females were
not
allowed to study maths higher than that, but all they actually offered
there
past Algebra was Trigonometry. However, I scored 100 as my final year
grade
in Algebra I and 99 as my final year grade in Algebra II. Being female, I
did as I was expected to do, gave up my interest in math, and became a
wife
and mother. I actually didn't even know that physics was a form of math
back
then!

Now I'm 55, and a grandmother, but my interest in physics has just grown
over the years. I've noted with great appreciation that higher and higher
maths are being taught much earlier in school now, and NO one would dream
of
denying a female the right to study them. My niece just obtained her
doctorate in math and has been offered a position as a math professor at
Texas A&M.

Good on her. Perhaps she can help you correct some of your misconceptions.


That's it for you as far as I'm concerned, because you are a
closed-minded,
mental and emotional deficient, and I really can't afford the time it
takes
to endure you.

I have gone to a lot of trouble to give you quite a few links from reputable
sources to help you understand what is really happening. It is obvious from
your reply who is 'closed-minded, mental and emotional deficient'. Actually
read some of the references I gave and think a bit.

Bill


Be well - Pax

Why should I consider anything from you as beneficial? Primarily because
you're interested in Physics and I am here to learn, I will consider your
links. But I have already learned over the years that people with attitudes
such as yours are usually around just to bully. You're more interested in
obfuscation than clarification, and belittling than benefitting others.
You're not here to actually do any more than blow your own horn.

Once I was extremely openminded about people like you. Past tense.

Be well - Pax

"Pax" wrote in message
. com...
Why should I consider anything from you as beneficial? Primarily because
you're interested in Physics and I am here to learn, I will consider your
links. But I have already learned over the years that people with
attitudes
such as yours are usually around just to bully. You're more interested in
obfuscation than clarification, and belittling than benefitting others.
You're not here to actually do any more than blow your own horn.

Once I was extremely openminded about people like you. Past tense.

Be well - Pax

Actually every fiber of my being tells me I should leave your reply go.
Almost certainly due to some deficiency on my part I find I must say
something - possibly related to the fact my mother has just been diagnosed
with early stage dementia and I feel frustrated. You wrote, regarding those
who you call 'Numberheads'; 'Further, not only do they have no imagination
or insight themselves, they demonstrate their insecurity with those who do
by deriding them mercilessly.' Having a mathematical bent myself I respond,
quite possibly inappropriately, but certainly not without provocation -
'Translation - math hurts my head so I do not want to study it' and proceed
to give reasons why your opinion is not correct. And you complain - 'But I
have already learned over the years that people with attitudes such as yours
are usually around just to bully'. As a person who claims to be 55 I think
you have a lot to learn about attitude and provocation.

Bill

Pax wrote:

Why should I consider anything from you as beneficial? Primarily because
you're interested in Physics and I am here to learn, I will consider your
links. But I have already learned over the years that people with attitudes
such as yours are usually around just to bully. You're more interested in
obfuscation than clarification, and belittling than benefitting others.
You're not here to actually do any more than blow your own horn.

Once I was extremely openminded about people like you. Past tense.

Hehe. Wisdom consists largely of being less openminded about
individual people, and being more openminded about ideas.

Bill is no bully, or at least he's not very good at playing one
on usenet. Far from being someone who blows his own horn, he has
most often downplayed his personal abilities. I completely
disagree with your assessment of him.

Well...

I just now saw Bill's latest response to you, before I finished
composing my thoughts.



I think I'll just leave it at that. Be well yourself, if you can.


---Tim Shuba---

Bill, I apologize. I was seeing you in the light of your first, derogatory
statement and your further incorrect assumptions concerning my present state
of knowledge concerning physics, including assuming I have not even read
Feynman. Personally, I have just been through one of the most devastating
periods of my life, so perhaps I'm not in the correct frame of mind to even
attempt physics again.

I wish you well - Pax



"Bill Hobba" wrote in message
...

"Pax" wrote in message
. com...
Why should I consider anything from you as beneficial? Primarily because
you're interested in Physics and I am here to learn, I will consider
your
links. But I have already learned over the years that people with
attitudes
such as yours are usually around just to bully. You're more interested
in
obfuscation than clarification, and belittling than benefitting others.
You're not here to actually do any more than blow your own horn.

Once I was extremely openminded about people like you. Past tense.

Be well - Pax

Actually every fiber of my being tells me I should leave your reply go.
Almost certainly due to some deficiency on my part I find I must say
something - possibly related to the fact my mother has just been diagnosed
with early stage dementia and I feel frustrated. You wrote, regarding
those
who you call 'Numberheads'; 'Further, not only do they have no
imagination
or insight themselves, they demonstrate their insecurity with those who do
by deriding them mercilessly.' Having a mathematical bent myself I
respond,
quite possibly inappropriately, but certainly not without provocation -
'Translation - math hurts my head so I do not want to study it' and
proceed
to give reasons why your opinion is not correct. And you complain - 'But
I
have already learned over the years that people with attitudes such as
yours
are usually around just to bully'. As a person who claims to be 55 I
think
you have a lot to learn about attitude and provocation.

Bill

Did you also see my response to him?

Be well - Pax


"shuba" wrote in message
news:tim.shuba-9CCF25.20384520092004@cp...
Pax wrote:

Why should I consider anything from you as beneficial? Primarily because
you're interested in Physics and I am here to learn, I will consider
your
links. But I have already learned over the years that people with
attitudes
such as yours are usually around just to bully. You're more interested
in
obfuscation than clarification, and belittling than benefitting others.
You're not here to actually do any more than blow your own horn.

Once I was extremely openminded about people like you. Past tense.

Hehe. Wisdom consists largely of being less openminded about
individual people, and being more openminded about ideas.

Bill is no bully, or at least he's not very good at playing one
on usenet. Far from being someone who blows his own horn, he has
most often downplayed his personal abilities. I completely
disagree with your assessment of him.

Well...

I just now saw Bill's latest response to you, before I finished
composing my thoughts.



I think I'll just leave it at that. Be well yourself, if you can.


---Tim Shuba---

"Pax" wrote in message
news
Bill, I apologize.

Apology not required but of course appreciated. We are here to discuss
physics and if you had a look at the links I gave that is the important
thing.

I was seeing you in the light of your first, derogatory
statement and your further incorrect assumptions concerning my present
state
of knowledge concerning physics, including assuming I have not even read
Feynman.

I was concerned about your opinions regarding mathematics and its relation
to physics. Those that read my posts know I have strong opinions in this
area - basically the same as the links I gave.

Personally, I have just been through one of the most devastating
periods of my life, so perhaps I'm not in the correct frame of mind to
even
attempt physics again.

It is always the right time to learn. Keep at it and knowledge will come.

Thanks
Bill


I wish you well - Pax



"Bill Hobba" wrote in message
...

"Pax" wrote in message
. com...
Why should I consider anything from you as beneficial? Primarily
because
you're interested in Physics and I am here to learn, I will consider
your
links. But I have already learned over the years that people with
attitudes
such as yours are usually around just to bully. You're more interested
in
obfuscation than clarification, and belittling than benefitting
others.
You're not here to actually do any more than blow your own horn.

Once I was extremely openminded about people like you. Past tense.

Be well - Pax

Actually every fiber of my being tells me I should leave your reply go.
Almost certainly due to some deficiency on my part I find I must say
something - possibly related to the fact my mother has just been
diagnosed
with early stage dementia and I feel frustrated. You wrote, regarding
those
who you call 'Numberheads'; 'Further, not only do they have no
imagination
or insight themselves, they demonstrate their insecurity with those who
do
by deriding them mercilessly.' Having a mathematical bent myself I
respond,
quite possibly inappropriately, but certainly not without provocation -
'Translation - math hurts my head so I do not want to study it' and
proceed
to give reasons why your opinion is not correct. And you complain -
'But
I
have already learned over the years that people with attitudes such as
yours
are usually around just to bully'. As a person who claims to be 55 I
think
you have a lot to learn about attitude and provocation.

Bill

"shuba" wrote in message
news:tim.shuba-9CCF25.20384520092004@cp...
Pax wrote:

Why should I consider anything from you as beneficial? Primarily because
you're interested in Physics and I am here to learn, I will consider
your
links. But I have already learned over the years that people with
attitudes
such as yours are usually around just to bully. You're more interested
in
obfuscation than clarification, and belittling than benefitting others.
You're not here to actually do any more than blow your own horn.

Once I was extremely openminded about people like you. Past tense.

Hehe. Wisdom consists largely of being less openminded about
individual people, and being more openminded about ideas.

Bill is no bully, or at least he's not very good at playing one
on usenet.

It is good to know that others do not see me that way.

Far from being someone who blows his own horn, he has
most often downplayed his personal abilities.

With good reason - 1. Tim is being kind. 2. People like Bilge, Tom Roberts
and Steve Carlip just blow me away. They, and others like them, are the
people that should be listened to.

I completely
disagree with your assessment of him.

Well...

I just now saw Bill's latest response to you, before I finished
composing my thoughts.



I think I'll just leave it at that. Be well yourself, if you can.

As Tim knows he is one of my favorite posters and it is always a pleasure to
hear from him. I hope what I said was not too hard- it was not meant to be.

Thanks
Bill



---Tim Shuba---