"César Sirvent" wrote:


"Androcles" escribió en el mensaje
...

"sal" wrote in message
s.com...
| On Thu, 27 May 2004 16:56:45 +0000, César Sirvent wrote:
|
| OFF TOPIC:
|
| A nice riddle for the bright minds here. We have 15 stones, and 2
players.
| Each player can take from 1 to 3 stones at each movement. The players
take
| the stones in movements until there is only 1 stones left in the
table.
| The player who has to take the last stone loses the game.
|
| What is the strategy that must be used to win?
|
| Hint 1: the first player, knowing the strategy, will always win. Hint
2:
| the free-will of the second player, if the first one uses the
strategy,
is
| just apparent.
| Hint 3: it is a variant of tic-tac-toe.
|
| Take 2 stones on the first move. From there on it's down hill.
|
| Second player faces 13 stones, which he can reduce to 12, 11, or 10.
|
| First player reduces that to 9 stones, taking 3, 2, or 1 as needed.
|
| Second player, facing 9 stones, can reduce it to 8, 7, or 6, but he's
| still sunk.
|
| First player takes enough to reduce the number to 5 stones.
|
| Second player, facing 5 stones, can now reduce it to 4, 3, or 2.
|
| First player takes 1, 2, or 3 stones, as needed, to reduce it to 1
stone,
| and the second player loses.
|
| (No, I had not seen it before.)
|
|
| --
| To email me directly, take out nospam and put back foobox.
It's called "NIM". There is a version at
http://www.chlond.demon.co.uk/Nim.html
More info at:
http://www.imageviewer.co.uk/java/nim/
http://www.madras.fife.sch.uk/maths/games/nim.html
http://www.chronosfear.org.uk/nim/
http://www.cenius.net/refer/display....cleID=nim_ency
Lots more if you search.
Androcles.

Nice references, thanks Androcles.
If I understand it correctly, the example I provided is just a [very]
particular case of groups of 4 coins, though I am not sure if all the rules
apply as exactly described there. In any case, a little variation of this
more generally (and computer-like interesting) case.

Cesar


If you like that one...do these...the first is just a warm up.

you have 9 steel balls and one of them is just slightly heaver than
the other 8.
you have the use of a "ballance" scale and can only use it twice.

develope a method whereby you will always be able to Identify the one
slightly heavy ball every time.

no tricks are required.

the second one is a favorite of mine

You have 12 steel balls and one is slightly different in weight either
heavier or lighter.

You have the use of the ballance scale only three times (no tricks).

develope a method that will correctly identify the "different" ball
and tell whether it is heavier or lighter.



"The lack of reason is overcome by the passion of belief"

"C.J. Luke" wrote in message ...

[snip]


If you like that one...do these...the first is just a warm up.

you have 9 steel balls and one of them is just slightly heaver than
the other 8.
you have the use of a "ballance" scale and can only use it twice.

develope a method whereby you will always be able to Identify the one
slightly heavy ball every time.

no tricks are required.

the second one is a favorite of mine

You have 12 steel balls and one is slightly different in weight either
heavier or lighter.

You have the use of the ballance scale only three times (no tricks).

develope a method that will correctly identify the "different" ball
and tell whether it is heavier or lighter.

General solution for W weighings and (3^W - 3)/2 balls:
lenet-ops.be
A tough one :-)

Dirk Vdm

"Dirk Van de moortel" wrote
in message ...
|
| "Androcles" wrote in message
...
|
| [snip]
|
| | Cesar
| You are welcome. These kind of problems are quite popular among
| those with logical minds.
|
| Those who find logic gibberish?
| http://users.pandora.be/vdmoortel/di...Gibberish.html
|
| Dirk Vdm
http://www.androc1es.pwp.blueyonder....rtalFumble.htm
http://www.androc1es.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/Andersen's%20Nemesis.htm

http://www.androc1es.pwp.blueyonder....ivist_ande.htm
http://www.androc1es.pwp.blueyonder....Transforms.htm
http://www.androc1es.pwp.blueyonder....nd%20Faith.htm
http://www.androc1es.pwp.blueyonder....al_rev_2.3.htm
http://www.androc1es.pwp.blueyonder....dio%20Wave.htm
http://www.androc1es.pwp.blueyonder....ekerinTime.htm
http://www.androc1es.pwp.blueyonder....ctual_data.htm
http://www.androc1es.pwp.blueyonder....irus_alert.htm
http://www.androc1es.pwp.blueyonder....Copernicus.htm
http://www.androc1es.pwp.blueyonder....CplusVstar.htm
http://www.androc1es.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/cheating.htm
http://www.androc1es.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/Theorem.htm
http://www.androc1es.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/Pulsar.htm
http://www.androc1es.pwp.blueyonder....with_stars.htm
http://www.androc1es.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/gardner.htm
http://www.androc1es.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/EDoppler.htm
http://www.androc1es.pwp.blueyonder...._revisited.htm

http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=e...r.co.uk&rnum=1
Androcles

|
|

"Dirk Van de moortel"
escribió en el mensaje ...

"C.J. Luke" wrote in message
...

[snip]


If you like that one...do these...the first is just a warm up.

you have 9 steel balls and one of them is just slightly heaver than
the other 8.
you have the use of a "ballance" scale and can only use it twice.

develope a method whereby you will always be able to Identify the one
slightly heavy ball every time.

no tricks are required.

the second one is a favorite of mine

You have 12 steel balls and one is slightly different in weight either
heavier or lighter.

You have the use of the ballance scale only three times (no tricks).

develope a method that will correctly identify the "different" ball
and tell whether it is heavier or lighter.

General solution for W weighings and (3^W - 3)/2 balls:

lenet-ops.be
A tough one :-)

Dirk Vdm

The particular cases are not tough if W is low. But now you have shown the
general formula and ruined the fun... :-(

A similar one:

you have two ropes which burn completely in exactly 1 hour each. But they
are not homogeneous, so one of them may burn 1/3 of its length during the
first half an hour, and the remaining 2/3 in the remaining half hour, etc.

With the two ropes and a box of matches, how can you measure exactly 45
minutes?

Cesar

"César Sirvent" wrote in message . ..

"Dirk Van de moortel"
escribió en el mensaje ...

"C.J. Luke" wrote in message
...

[snip]


If you like that one...do these...the first is just a warm up.

you have 9 steel balls and one of them is just slightly heaver than
the other 8.
you have the use of a "ballance" scale and can only use it twice.

develope a method whereby you will always be able to Identify the one
slightly heavy ball every time.

no tricks are required.

the second one is a favorite of mine

You have 12 steel balls and one is slightly different in weight either
heavier or lighter.

You have the use of the ballance scale only three times (no tricks).

develope a method that will correctly identify the "different" ball
and tell whether it is heavier or lighter.

General solution for W weighings and (3^W - 3)/2 balls:

lenet-ops.be
A tough one :-)

Dirk Vdm

The particular cases are not tough if W is low. But now you have shown the
general formula and ruined the fun... :-(

A similar one:

you have two ropes which burn completely in exactly 1 hour each. But they
are not homogeneous, so one of them may burn 1/3 of its length during the
first half an hour, and the remaining 2/3 in the remaining half hour, etc.

With the two ropes and a box of matches, how can you measure exactly 45
minutes?

When you set fire to a rope at both ends at the same time,
it burns in 30 minutes. If you fold the other rope to half its
length and set fire to the remaining ends, it would probably
not burn in 15 minutes...
but.... set fire to rope 1 at both ends, and to rope 2 at one
end. When rope 1 is gone, set fire to the non burning end
of rope 2. That will take the other 15 minutes.
This way the lengths of the ropes are not used.
Good one for rec.puzzles.

Dirk Vdm

"C.J. Luke" wrote in message
...
| "César Sirvent" wrote:
|
|
| "Androcles" escribió en el mensaje
| ...
|
| "sal" wrote in message
| s.com...
| | On Thu, 27 May 2004 16:56:45 +0000, César Sirvent wrote:
| |
| | OFF TOPIC:
| |
| | A nice riddle for the bright minds here. We have 15 stones, and 2
| players.
| | Each player can take from 1 to 3 stones at each movement. The
players
| take
| | the stones in movements until there is only 1 stones left in the
| table.
| | The player who has to take the last stone loses the game.
| |
| | What is the strategy that must be used to win?
| |
| | Hint 1: the first player, knowing the strategy, will always win.
Hint
| 2:
| | the free-will of the second player, if the first one uses the
| strategy,
| is
| | just apparent.
| | Hint 3: it is a variant of tic-tac-toe.
| |
| | Take 2 stones on the first move. From there on it's down hill.
| |
| | Second player faces 13 stones, which he can reduce to 12, 11, or 10.
| |
| | First player reduces that to 9 stones, taking 3, 2, or 1 as needed.
| |
| | Second player, facing 9 stones, can reduce it to 8, 7, or 6, but he's
| | still sunk.
| |
| | First player takes enough to reduce the number to 5 stones.
| |
| | Second player, facing 5 stones, can now reduce it to 4, 3, or 2.
| |
| | First player takes 1, 2, or 3 stones, as needed, to reduce it to 1
| stone,
| | and the second player loses.
| |
| | (No, I had not seen it before.)
| |
| |
| | --
| | To email me directly, take out nospam and put back foobox.
| It's called "NIM". There is a version at
| http://www.chlond.demon.co.uk/Nim.html
| More info at:
| http://www.imageviewer.co.uk/java/nim/
| http://www.madras.fife.sch.uk/maths/games/nim.html
| http://www.chronosfear.org.uk/nim/
| http://www.cenius.net/refer/display....cleID=nim_ency
| Lots more if you search.
| Androcles.
|
| Nice references, thanks Androcles.
| If I understand it correctly, the example I provided is just a [very]
| particular case of groups of 4 coins, though I am not sure if all the
rules
| apply as exactly described there. In any case, a little variation of this
| more generally (and computer-like interesting) case.
|
| Cesar
|
|
| If you like that one...do these...the first is just a warm up.
|
| you have 9 steel balls and one of them is just slightly heaver than
| the other 8.
| you have the use of a "ballance" scale and can only use it twice.


Weigh 3-set balls against 3-set balls.
If they balance, the heavy ball is among the 3-set not weighed.
Otherwise it is in the lower pan.
Repeat using the 3-set containing the heavy ball.
27 balls requires 3 weighings.
9-9 and 9 outside
3-3 and 3 outside
1-1 and 1 outside.

I was at a school fundraiser last summer where I was a chance to win
a small prize by selecting the red ball from 6 other non-red balls contained
in a box hiding the balls. I watched others chose at random for a while,
until I had a chance to see the red ball. It was made of polyethylene,
very light with holes in it, the size of a standard tennis ball; as were the
others. I then paid my 20p, groped in the box and withdrew the red ball
5 times in a row, to the astonishment of the teacher operating the stall.
I gave the 5 candy pieces I had "won" to the children, athough the cost
of each attempt was greater than the value of the prize. The fundraiser
was for a minibus for disabled children, so I had no intention of making
a profit.
How was I successful?
Hint: I had worked in the plastics industry many years ago.

|
| develope a method whereby you will always be able to Identify the one
| slightly heavy ball every time.
|
| no tricks are required.
|
| the second one is a favorite of mine
|
| You have 12 steel balls and one is slightly different in weight either
| heavier or lighter.
|
| You have the use of the ballance scale only three times (no tricks).
|
| develope a method that will correctly identify the "different" ball
| and tell whether it is heavier or lighter.
|
| "The lack of reason is overcome by the passion of belief"
|
I saw this one in a computer game, but I can't recall the name.
Myst maybe? Riven?
I've played too many :-)
Androcles

"Androcles" wrote in message ...

[snip]

I was at a school fundraiser last summer where I was a chance to win
a small prize by selecting the red ball from 6 other non-red balls contained
in a box hiding the balls. I watched others chose at random for a while,
until I had a chance to see the red ball. It was made of polyethylene,
very light with holes in it, the size of a standard tennis ball; as were the
others. I then paid my 20p, groped in the box and withdrew the red ball
5 times in a row, to the astonishment of the teacher operating the stall.
I gave the 5 candy pieces I had "won" to the children, athough the cost
of each attempt was greater than the value of the prize. The fundraiser
was for a minibus for disabled children, so I had no intention of making
a profit.
How was I successful?
Hint: I had worked in the plastics industry many years ago.

So in real life you see yourself as a nice amiable guy.
How come that, each time you hear the word relativity, you show
us that vile cheating toothless old would-be disgusting asshole?
Are you aware of your condition?
If not, do have a look at the symptoms:
http://www.mentalhealth.com/dis/p20-ps01.html

Dirk Vdm

"Dirk Van de moortel" wrote
in message ...
|
| "Androcles" wrote in message
...
|
| [snip]
|
| I was at a school fundraiser last summer where I was a chance to win
| a small prize by selecting the red ball from 6 other non-red balls
contained
| in a box hiding the balls. I watched others chose at random for a while,
| until I had a chance to see the red ball. It was made of polyethylene,
| very light with holes in it, the size of a standard tennis ball; as were
the
| others. I then paid my 20p, groped in the box and withdrew the red ball
| 5 times in a row, to the astonishment of the teacher operating the
stall.
| I gave the 5 candy pieces I had "won" to the children, athough the cost
| of each attempt was greater than the value of the prize. The fundraiser
| was for a minibus for disabled children, so I had no intention of making
| a profit.
| How was I successful?
| Hint: I had worked in the plastics industry many years ago.
|
| So in real life you see yourself as a nice amiable guy.

As do others.
How do you see yourself?


| How come that, each time you hear the word relativity, you show
| us that vile cheating toothless old would-be disgusting asshole?
| Are you aware of your condition?
| If not, do have a look at the symptoms:
| http://www.mentalhealth.com/dis/p20-ps01.html
|
| Dirk Vdm
Are you aware of your own condition?
I'm sure you see nothing wrong with yourself.

I think this says it all, for others to read:


Google records of sci.physics.relativity commence on 24 Sept 1996.

From: Philip Gibbs )
Date: 1996/09/24

Welcome! to sci.physics.relativity

This newsgroup is the place to discuss and ask questions on the
theory of relativity. It is an open forum where you can talk
about anything you like so long as it related to relativity and
physics.

Please note that cross-posting from sci.physics.relativity
to other sci. groups (except alt.sci.physics.new-theories)
is strongly discouraged. If you respond to a message which
is cross-posted to irrelevant groups you should consider
removing them from the newsgroup line as you post, or directing
followups to a reduced list of groups.

There is a FAQ for this group which is made up from articles
previously in the Physics FAQ to which it remains attached.
It will be available on the web at these sites.

http://math.ucr.edu/home/baez/physics/relativity.html
http://www.public.iastate.edu/~physi...elativity.html
http://www-hpcc.astro.washington.edu...elativity.html
http://www.phys.unsw.edu.au/physoc/p...elativity.html


CHARTER: sci.physics.relativity

Appropriate postings would include, but not be limited to:

1. Queries regarding special and general relativity
2. How to resolve relativity paradoxes
3. Black holes, wormholes and singularities
4. Big Bang and other cosmological models of space-time
5. Equivalence of mass and energy
6. The speed of light and gravity
7. Time dilation, space contraction, redshifts
8. Causality, and faster than light travel
9. The large and small scale structure of space-time
10. Discussion of the scope and validity of relativity
11. Viability of alternative theories to relativity
12. Experimental tests of Relativity
13. Gravitational waves
14. Theories and concepts which take us beyond relativity

The news group sci.physics.relativity will be open to
discussion on all levels. It will accept talk about
alternative theories and other controversial discussions
about relativity which would be outside the charter of
most other sci newsgroups, as well as more mainstream
discussion on physics as described by Einstein's theory
of relativity and modern research to develop more unified
theories combining relativity and quantum mechanics. This
reflects the kind of threads which are now popular in usenet
on the subject of relativity.

The Physics FAQ will be split and extended to create a new
relativity FAQ for this group. The FAQ introduction will
advise caution against cross-posting to other groups.

END CHARTER.

My first appearance is on 10 Jan 1999. Prior to that I was debating in other
places.

Dinky the Deranged first shows up in a bizarre reply to "Jake" in the thread
" Imaginary Physics"
Date: 2001-02-10 15:19:43 PST

His first reply to one of my posts is

"Of course light *is* not a wave or a particle :-) "

Subject: Why so Many Engineers Talk about Relativity & Gravitation
Date: 2001-06-25 07:33:34 PST

Heaven alone knows what he imagines light actually IS, he gives no
explanation for that.

Things were cool on

Subject: Einstein's Dream Realized
View: Complete Thread (14 articles)
Original Format
Newsgroups: sci.physics.relativity
Date: 2001-06-30 11:37:08 PST

Where it is to be noticed that moortel is more interested in attacking Seto
than the subject of my post.

His sneering at me commences on

Subject: Michelson vs Einstein
Date: 2001-06-30 03:05:25 PST

"... and not a physicist either apparently ;-)
But that's not a problem of course, not being a physicist.
Why would you have to be one, if you're only reshaping the fundamentals
of physics?"

This is attacking the person, not the subject.


"Dirk Van de moortel" wrote
in message ...

"Androcles" wrote in message
...

"Dirk Van de moortel"
wrote
in message ...
some garbage to propagate his smear campaign.

So you really don't want to discuss relativity, then, Dinky?

Discuss relativity?
With a load of crap like you?
http://users.pandora.be/vdmoortel/di.../LoadCrap.html
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!
You are about as funny as Wilson Rabbidge!

Dirk Vdm

I could go on, but I think it is quite clear to anyone sane that moortel has
nothing serious to offer this group, never has, knows nothing, and is a
troll of the worst kind.
Clearly moortel is in violation of the charter, and continues to be.

Androcles.

"Androcles" wrote in message ...

"Dirk Van de moortel" wrote
in message ...
|
| "Androcles" wrote in message
...
|
| [snip]
|
| I was at a school fundraiser last summer where I was a chance to win
| a small prize by selecting the red ball from 6 other non-red balls
contained
| in a box hiding the balls. I watched others chose at random for a while,
| until I had a chance to see the red ball. It was made of polyethylene,
| very light with holes in it, the size of a standard tennis ball; as were
the
| others. I then paid my 20p, groped in the box and withdrew the red ball
| 5 times in a row, to the astonishment of the teacher operating the
stall.
| I gave the 5 candy pieces I had "won" to the children, athough the cost
| of each attempt was greater than the value of the prize. The fundraiser
| was for a minibus for disabled children, so I had no intention of making
| a profit.
| How was I successful?
| Hint: I had worked in the plastics industry many years ago.
|
| So in real life you see yourself as a nice amiable guy.

As do others.

That's silly. I'm sure that there are many people who perfectly
know that they are cheating *******s. If you don't believe that,
then you must be utterly stupid.

How do you see yourself?

Not as a dishonest person, like you obviously are, and *know*
that you are.



| How come that, each time you hear the word relativity, you show
| us that vile cheating toothless old would-be disgusting asshole?
| Are you aware of your condition?
| If not, do have a look at the symptoms:
| http://www.mentalhealth.com/dis/p20-ps01.html
|
| Dirk Vdm

Are you aware of your own condition?
I'm sure you see nothing wrong with yourself.

In that respect you are dead wrong as well.
I perfectly know that I have good and bad sides.
So yet again, that was an incredibly stupid comment.



I think this says it all, for others to read:


Google records of sci.physics.relativity commence on 24 Sept 1996.

The funny thing about all these "records" is, that, for me, there is
*nothing* there to be ashamed about. You are nicely exposing
your own stupidity again and again and again.
Don't you *realize* that?

Dirk Vdm

Bored and in danger of getting some work done, I decided to waste time
reading old posts.

Never saw an answer to this one.

On Sat, 29 May 2004 08:54:39 +0000, Androcles wrote:

I was at a school fundraiser last summer where I was a chance to win a
small prize by selecting the red ball from 6 other non-red balls contained
in a box hiding the balls. I watched others chose at random for a while,
until I had a chance to see the red ball. It was made of polyethylene,
very light with holes in it, the size of a standard tennis ball; as were
the others. I then paid my 20p, groped in the box and withdrew the red
ball 5 times in a row, to the astonishment of the teacher operating the
stall. I gave the 5 candy pieces I had "won" to the children, athough the
cost of each attempt was greater than the value of the prize. The
fundraiser was for a minibus for disabled children, so I had no intention
of making a profit.
How was I successful?
Hint: I had worked in the plastics industry many years ago.

I give up. How did you do it?

Greasy feel of red plastic? Material thickness? Tiny weight difference?
Extra flashing due to 2-shot molding on the red ball? Something else?


--
I can be contacted through http://www.physicsinsights.org