Google records of sci.physics.relativity commence on 24 Sept 1996.

From: Philip Gibbs )
Date: 1996/09/24

Welcome! to sci.physics.relativity

This newsgroup is the place to discuss and ask questions on the
theory of relativity. It is an open forum where you can talk
about anything you like so long as it related to relativity and
physics.

Please note that cross-posting from sci.physics.relativity
to other sci. groups (except alt.sci.physics.new-theories)
is strongly discouraged. If you respond to a message which
is cross-posted to irrelevant groups you should consider
removing them from the newsgroup line as you post, or directing
followups to a reduced list of groups.

There is a FAQ for this group which is made up from articles
previously in the Physics FAQ to which it remains attached.
It will be available on the web at these sites.

http://math.ucr.edu/home/baez/physics/relativity.html
http://www.public.iastate.edu/~physi...elativity.html
http://www-hpcc.astro.washington.edu...elativity.html
http://www.phys.unsw.edu.au/physoc/p...elativity.html


CHARTER: sci.physics.relativity

Appropriate postings would include, but not be limited to:

1. Queries regarding special and general relativity
2. How to resolve relativity paradoxes
3. Black holes, wormholes and singularities
4. Big Bang and other cosmological models of space-time
5. Equivalence of mass and energy
6. The speed of light and gravity
7. Time dilation, space contraction, redshifts
8. Causality, and faster than light travel
9. The large and small scale structure of space-time
10. Discussion of the scope and validity of relativity
11. Viability of alternative theories to relativity
12. Experimental tests of Relativity
13. Gravitational waves
14. Theories and concepts which take us beyond relativity

The news group sci.physics.relativity will be open to
discussion on all levels. It will accept talk about
alternative theories and other controversial discussions
about relativity which would be outside the charter of
most other sci newsgroups, as well as more mainstream
discussion on physics as described by Einstein's theory
of relativity and modern research to develop more unified
theories combining relativity and quantum mechanics. This
reflects the kind of threads which are now popular in usenet
on the subject of relativity.

The Physics FAQ will be split and extended to create a new
relativity FAQ for this group. The FAQ introduction will
advise caution against cross-posting to other groups.

END CHARTER.

Actually it accepts anything, it is unmoderated.

My first appearance is on 10 Jan 1999. Prior to that I was debating in other
places.


Dinky the Deranged first shows up in a bizarre reply to "Jake" in the thread
" Imaginary Physics"
Date: 2001-02-10 15:19:43 PST

His first reply to one of my posts is

"Of course light *is* not a wave or a particle :-) "

Subject: Why so Many Engineers Talk about Relativity & Gravitation
Date: 2001-06-25 07:33:34 PST

Heaven alone knows what he imagines light actually IS, he gives no
explanation for

that.

Things were cool on

Subject: Einstein's Dream Realized
View: Complete Thread (14 articles)
Original Format
Newsgroups: sci.physics.relativity
Date: 2001-06-30 11:37:08 PST

Where it is to be noticed that moortel is more interested in attacking Seto
than
the subject of my post.

His sneering at me commences on

Subject: Michelson vs Einstein
Date: 2001-06-30 03:05:25 PST

"... and not a physicist either apparently ;-)
But that's not a problem of course, not being a physicist.
Why would you have to be one, if you're only reshaping the fundamentals
of physics?"
This is attacking the person, not the subject.

Later, we have:

"Dirk Van de moortel" wrote
in message ...

"Androcles" wrote in message
...

"Dirk Van de moortel"
wrote
in message ...
some garbage to propagate his smear campaign.

So you really don't want to discuss relativity, then, Dinky?

Discuss relativity?
With a load of crap like you?
http://users.pandora.be/vdmoortel/di.../LoadCrap.html
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!
You are about as funny as Wilson Rabbidge!

Dirk Vdm

I could go on, but I think it is quite clear to anyone sane that moortel has
nothing serious to offer this group, never has, knows nothing, and is a
troll of the worst kind.
Clearly moortel is in violation of the charter, and continues to be.

One cannot claim the same is true of various other posters I disagree with,
for they
do at least display some slight interest in the subject. Dinky the fumble
mumbler is solely interested in ridiculing others and in doing so displays
the worst mentality imaginable.
Androcles.

"Androcles" wrote in message ...

http://users.pandora.be/vdmoortel/di...ndrorgasm.html
Well, at least I use my real name, while a senile coward
like you has to hide behind a false name :-)

Dirk Vdm

On Sun, 23 May 2004 17:19:04 GMT, "Dirk Van de moortel"
wrote:


"Androcles" wrote in message ...

http://users.pandora.be/vdmoortel/di...ndrorgasm.html
Well, at least I use my real name, while a senile coward
like you has to hide behind a false name :-)

As irrelevant as anything else you post. Both to this topic and
to any topic of physics which is what this newsgroups is
supposedly for, and, the key topic of this thread!

In fact, like the character Scar in Disney's Lion King most of
what you say is both twisted and of malicious intent. IOW you're
a very poor excuse of a person. One that can seem only to get
pleasure out of attempting to demean others that do not hold the
same belief system as yourself.

Paul Stowe

"Paul Stowe" wrote in message ...
On Sun, 23 May 2004 17:19:04 GMT, "Dirk Van de moortel"
wrote:


"Androcles" wrote in message ...

http://users.pandora.be/vdmoortel/di...ndrorgasm.html
Well, at least I use my real name, while a senile coward
like you has to hide behind a false name :-)

As irrelevant as anything else you post. Both to this topic and
to any topic of physics which is what this newsgroups is
supposedly for, and, the key topic of this thread!

Okay, back on topic:
http://users.pandora.be/vdmoortel/di...es/AndArg.html


In fact, like the character Scar in Disney's Lion King most of
what you say is both twisted and of malicious intent. IOW you're
a very poor excuse of a person. One that can seem only to get
pleasure out of attempting to demean others that do not hold the
same belief system as yourself.

Only if they show the combination of ignorance and arrogance.

Dirk Vdm

On Sun, 23 May 2004 18:08:12 GMT, "Dirk Van de moortel"
wrote:


"Paul Stowe" wrote in message ...
On Sun, 23 May 2004 17:19:04 GMT, "Dirk Van de moortel"
wrote:


"Androcles" wrote in message ...

http://users.pandora.be/vdmoortel/di...ndrorgasm.html
Well, at least I use my real name, while a senile coward
like you has to hide behind a false name :-)

As irrelevant as anything else you post. Both to this topic and
to any topic of physics which is what this newsgroups is
supposedly for, and, the key topic of this thread!

Okay, back on topic:
http://users.pandora.be/vdmoortel/di...es/AndArg.html


In fact, like the character Scar in Disney's Lion King most of
what you say is both twisted and of malicious intent. IOW you're
a very poor excuse of a person. One that can seem only to get
pleasure out of attempting to demean others that do not hold the
same belief system as yourself.

Only if they show the combination of ignorance and arrogance.

Go look in the mirror...

Paul Stowe

"Androcles" wrote in message
...
I could go on, but I think it is quite clear to anyone sane that
moortel has nothing serious to offer this group, never has, knows
nothing, and is a troll of the worst kind.

I disagree. Read what he said in "Acceleration at the event horizon?"
... As follows:

\quote
Hm, not necessarily, an object at velocity c can have
any 'additional acceleration' in the direction of the motion.
The velocity will stay at c.
See for instance



But of course in this case the limiting acceleration at the horizon
is zero indeed, except in the special case where the object is
dropped and its acceleration measured at the horizon. In that
special case infinity is measured...

For example, looking at part B. of exercise 9 of chapter 3 of
Taylor and Wheller's EBH:
If an object is dropped at some radius r_0, the shell observer
(using shell coordinates rs and ts) at radius r (Schwarzschild!)
will see it fly by (radially inward) with shell velocity
drs/dts = - ( (2M/r - 2M/r_0) / (1-2M/r_0) )^(1/2)
and thus with acceleration
d^2rs/dts^2 = M/r^2 sqrt(1-2M/r) / (1-2M/r_0)

For any r_0 2M, this has the following limits
- for the shell observer at the horizon (r - 2M) == 0
- for the far away observer at infinity (r - Infinity) == 0

But now put the shell observer at radius r_0 itself, i.o.w.
measure the acceleration of an object that he drops himself:
d^2rs/dts^2 = M/r_0^2 / sqrt(1-2M/r_0)
This has the following limits
- At the horizon (r_0 - 2M) == infinity (!)
- Far away (r_0 large) == M/r_0^2
- At infinity (r_0 - Infinity) == 0

Dirk Vdm
\endquote

I was very appreciative of his taking the time he did, to respond to me.
He was very knowlegeable, sitied references, followed with details. I'm
still thinking about his reply. Some of what he said, I've already
absorbed since. Some I am still pondering. I had previously come across
the reference he mentioned there, but I hadn't extracted the full
meaning he adds here.

The problem isn't that Dirk Vdm "has nothing serious to offer this
group, never has, knows nothing". That's demonstrably incorrect by this
one post alone.

The problem, I believe, is there is so little real physics to comment on
in these discussion. Almost all these discussions become unreasonable
quickly, that is, the first time an error in the argument is sited, and
not responded too rationally. Reasonable people, once errors have been
pointed out to them, stop and consider the error, or dive deeper to find
the root of the misunderstanding to see if the supposed error can be
resolved. If one is not reasonable, there is little else that discussion
can do. So each person must decide how they will proceed in the face of
recalcitrant lack of reason.

For knowledgeable posters, it surely must feel like a waste to spend
time typing on someone who you know don't, can't or won't appreciate
what you have to say.

I'm sure your frustration with Dirk Vdm is no greater than his with you
and others. He deals with it by cataloging obvious errors (obviously
wrong to someone with a reasonably complete math or physics background),
and then offers them up as a directory to others. His hope is that the
unaware, reasonable person who looks can decide for themselves about the
poster they're dealing with, without specifically having to call anyone
a name. He simply points out what they've said themselves.

It is an interesting way of dealing with frustration, as I see it. I see
you've even tried to emulate it, a sincere form of flatery, it would
seem.

--
Randy M. Dumse

Caution: Objects in mirror are more confused than they appear.

"Androcles" wrote in message ...

My first appearance is on 10 Jan 1999.

And you have still learnt nothing.

Martin Hogbin

"Randy M. Dumse" wrote in message ...

[snip]

I'm sure your frustration with Dirk Vdm is no greater than his with you
and others. He deals with it by cataloging obvious errors (obviously
wrong to someone with a reasonably complete math or physics background),
and then offers them up as a directory to others. His hope is that the
unaware, reasonable person who looks can decide for themselves about the
poster they're dealing with, without specifically having to call anyone
a name. He simply points out what they've said themselves.

It is an interesting way of dealing with frustration, as I see it. I see
you've even tried to emulate it, a sincere form of flatery, it would
seem.

hm, as a matter of fact, the name 'fumble' was inspired by Androcles
himself... he had set up a webpage called "Gardner's Fumble" or
something. It showed his complete misunderstanding of a somewhat
poor explanation by Martin Gardner. I tried to put it straight, but it
didn't work out that way.
One thing you have a bit wrong though: frustration does not enter
the picture - well, at least not for me, and not at this stage anymore.
Maybe the first months... now it's more like fun :-)
Thanks for the kind words, Randy.

Cheers,
Dirk Vdm

Dirk Van de moortel wrote:

"Paul Stowe"
wrote in message
...



On Sun, 23 May 2004 17:19:04 GMT, "Dirk Van de
moortel"

wrote:


"Androcles"
wrote in message
...



http://users.pandora.be/vdmoortel/di...ndrorgasm.html
Well, at least I use my real name, while a
senile coward like you has to hide behind a
false name :-)

As irrelevant as anything else you post. Both
to this topic and to any topic of physics which
is what this newsgroups is supposedly for,
and, the key topic of this thread!


Okay, back on topic:
http://users.pandora.be/vdmoortel/di...es/AndArg.html




In fact, like the character Scar in Disney's
Lion King most of what you say is both twisted
and of malicious intent. IOW you're a very
poor excuse of a person. One that can seem
only to get pleasure out of attempting to
demean others that do not hold the same belief
system as yourself.


Only if they show the combination of ignorance
and arrogance.

Add to that total disrespect for other people, and
you have an accurate description of yourself, DVdm.

Today's greatest triumph of science, is considered
ignorance tomorrow.

Ignorance is not absolute, it is relative.

If you think your brain has the size of a black
hole, it regrettably also has infinite inertia.

To understand the last one : what is the size of a
black hole, measured with a local ruler ?

Uwe Hayek.



--
To be controlled in our economic pursuits,
is to be controlled in everything -- F.A.Hayek.

"Androcles" wrote in message
...

Quit whining, you turd.