For over a decade now, theorists have been attempting to formulate a "Grand
Unification Theory" which if successful, will be able to unify Quantum
Mechanics and Relativity, show equations relating reality to space, time
and gravity. It should even be able to provide an explanation for where all
your missing socks went off to. But, this is never going to hapen. Modern
GUT theorists are basing their work on a false premise, and with such an
unstable foundation, all work from then on will be invalid. I believe this
has been going on for so long now, that there is no way for recovery to
occure - the dream of grand unification must be disgarded as a badly
orchestrated pipe dream. Modern unification efforts are based on Topos
theory - a methodology of exclusion. There is never thinking 'outside the
box' because 'outside' doesn't exist. This false logic presupposes that
something must be right if more than one observer arrives at the same
conclusion by means other than what you yourself have used. I have arrived
at the conclusion that all lawers are liars because of what happened in my
divorce. My neighbor down the block has also arrived at the same conclusion,
because of what he has observed in his murder trial. So, it must be true,
that 'all lawers are liars'.... this is absurd. All it takes to invalidate
this conclusion is one observer 'outside the box, er, neighborhood to arrive
at the conclusion that all lawers are noble creatures because of what he has
observed during a court battle for abortion rights to negate all the
thinking my neighbor and I have done for the past several years.

Although a 'GUT theorist' may never publicly admit it, the cannot believe in
anything they can't observe. The can't believe in Many Worlds, or Quantum
Computing (both for the same reason). They can't believe their wives are
cheating on them because they haven't observed it. Uh Huh.... Grand
Unification will never be disovered, not because it doesn't exist. No, it
will never be discovered because the people who are trying to find the
answers are so damn boring, and utterly lacking completely in imagination.

Greysky

www.allocations.cc
Learn how to build a FTL radio.

Greysky wrote:

Learn how to build a FTL radio.

Crank Information
http://www.google.com/search?q=ftl+site%3Awww.crank.net

Greysky:
For over a decade now, theorists have been attempting to formulate a "Grand
Unification Theory" which if successful, will be able to unify Quantum
Mechanics and Relativity, show equations relating reality to space, time
and gravity. It should even be able to provide an explanation for where all
your missing socks went off to. But, this is never going to hapen.

Based upon a lack of success in a decade? It took a few millenia before
newtonian gravity gravity was proposed by newton, despite the fact that
people surely realized that objects universally fell down, never up.
It took about 50-60 years to explain two forces that weren't even
discovered until the twentieth century and create a theory that included
electromagnetism, which wasn't explained until 150 years ago.

Modern GUT theorists are basing their work on a false premise,

Which is what, exactly?

and with such an
unstable foundation, all work from then on will be invalid. I believe this
has been going on for so long now, that there is no way for recovery to
occure - the dream of grand unification must be disgarded as a badly
orchestrated pipe dream. Modern unification efforts are based on Topos
theory - a methodology of exclusion.

Meaning what, exactly?

There is never thinking 'outside the box' because 'outside' doesn't
exist.

From what I know of topos theory, topos theory _is_ thinking outside
the box, about as far outside as you can get, so in a sense, your statement
might be considered a tautology.

This false logic presupposes that
something must be right if more than one observer arrives at the same
conclusion by means other than what you yourself have used.

Huh?

I have arrived at the conclusion that all lawers are liars because
of what happened in my divorce.

As if the parties in a divorce were completely objective. Puhleeeze.
If you and your ex were objective, your attornys would have had nothing
to argue about.

My neighbor down the block has also arrived at the same conclusion,
because of what he has observed in his murder trial.

Crooked attorneys exist. So do crooked physicians, dishonest bankers
and kooks on usenet.

So, it must be true, that 'all lawers are liars'.... this is absurd.

Given the huge sample space of 2 in your survey, I'm completely
sold. After all, ``data'' is the plural of ``anecdote''.

All it takes to invalidate
this conclusion is one observer 'outside the box, er, neighborhood to arrive
at the conclusion that all lawers are noble creatures because of what he has
observed during a court battle for abortion rights to negate all the
thinking my neighbor and I have done for the past several years.

Another possibility is that your neighborhood is the problem.

Although a 'GUT theorist' may never publicly admit it, the cannot believe in
anything they can't observe. The can't believe in Many Worlds, or Quantum
Computing (both for the same reason). They can't believe their wives are
cheating on them because they haven't observed it. Uh Huh.... Grand
Unification will never be disovered, not because it doesn't exist. No, it
will never be discovered because the people who are trying to find the
answers are so damn boring, and utterly lacking completely in imagination.

Well, I have to admit that doing science involves a lot of less-than-
exciting activities like having to support one's claims with something
other than its value for a potential star trek episode or performing
experiements for which hunting down sources of error takes 10 times as
long and requires 10 times the effort than the actual experiment. For some
reason, you just can't sit around pontificating how great it would be if
something were true and then expect someone else to do all the work while
you chastise them for lack of imagination when they tell you it isn't
true and experiments prove it isn't true.

Expressed in a single sentence:
One cannot unify different _methods_ .
BTW, that is also not necessary, because the geometric theory
predicts particles too.

Ulrich

(Bilge) wrote in message ...
Greysky:
For over a decade now, theorists have been attempting to formulate a "Grand
Unification Theory" which if successful, will be able to unify Quantum
Mechanics and Relativity, show equations relating reality to space, time
and gravity. It should even be able to provide an explanation for where all
your missing socks went off to. But, this is never going to hapen.

Based upon a lack of success in a decade? It took a few millenia before
newtonian gravity gravity was proposed by newton, despite the fact that
people surely realized that objects universally fell down, never up.
It took about 50-60 years to explain two forces that weren't even
discovered until the twentieth century and create a theory that included
electromagnetism, which wasn't explained until 150 years ago.


All Newton did was mathematically discern a link between the behavior
of objects within human experience with its cosmological cyclical
equivalent namely Kepler's planetary laws,originally in the Principia
he stated it accurately but ran away with himself a couple of decades
later in the Optics treatise.

"I likewise call attractions and impulses, in the same sense,
accelerative, and motive; and use the words attraction, impulse or
propensity of any sort towards a centre, promiscuously, and
indifferently, one for another; considering those forces not
physically, but mathematically: wherefore, the reader is not to
imagine, that by those words, I anywhere take upon me to define the
kind, or the manner of any action, the causes or the physical reason
thereof, or that I attribute forces, in a true and physical sense, to
certain centres (which are only mathematical points); when at any time
I happen to speak of centres as attracting, or as endued with
attractive powers."

http://members.tripod.com/~gravitee/...tions.htm#time

Surprising that so many willing to oppose relativity give Newton's
original manuscripts a wide berth as he handles Kepler's work meekly
rather than the dominant figure he is portrayed in contemporary
culture.



Modern GUT theorists are basing their work on a false premise,

Which is what, exactly?


This is all wrong -

"PHÆNOMENON IV.
That the fixed stars being at rest, the periodic times of the five
primary planets, and (whether of the sun about the earth, or) of the
earth about the sun, are in the sesquiplicate proportion of their mean
distances from the sun.

This proportion, first observed by Kepler, is now received by all
astronomers; for the periodic times are the same, and the dimensions
of the orbits are the same, whether the sun revolves about the earth,
or the earth about the sun. And as to the measures of the periodic
times, all astronomers are agreed about them. But for the dimensions
of the orbits, Kepler and Bullialdus, above all others, have
determined them from observations with the greatest accuracy; and the
mean distances corresponding to the periodic times differ but
insensibly from those which they have assigned, and for the most part
fall in between them; as we may see from the following table."

http://members.tripod.com/~gravitee/phaenomena.htm

Taking Newton at his word is not such a great thing insofar as by
introducing the sidereal parameter which is the only means to justify
the equivalency between heliocentric and geocentric
longitudes,planetary motion dissolves back into circular orbits and
constant orbital displacement.

http://www.absolutebeginnersastronomy.com/sidereal.gif

http://ircamera.as.arizona.edu/NatSc...res/kepler.htm





and with such an
unstable foundation, all work from then on will be invalid. I believe this
has been going on for so long now, that there is no way for recovery to
occure - the dream of grand unification must be disgarded as a badly
orchestrated pipe dream. Modern unification efforts are based on Topos
theory - a methodology of exclusion.

Meaning what, exactly?

There is never thinking 'outside the box' because 'outside' doesn't
exist.

From what I know of topos theory, topos theory _is_ thinking outside
the box, about as far outside as you can get, so in a sense, your statement
might be considered a tautology.

This false logic presupposes that
something must be right if more than one observer arrives at the same
conclusion by means other than what you yourself have used.

Huh?

I have arrived at the conclusion that all lawers are liars because
of what happened in my divorce.

As if the parties in a divorce were completely objective. Puhleeeze.
If you and your ex were objective, your attornys would have had nothing
to argue about.

My neighbor down the block has also arrived at the same conclusion,
because of what he has observed in his murder trial.

Crooked attorneys exist. So do crooked physicians, dishonest bankers
and kooks on usenet.

So, it must be true, that 'all lawers are liars'.... this is absurd.

Given the huge sample space of 2 in your survey, I'm completely
sold. After all, ``data'' is the plural of ``anecdote''.

All it takes to invalidate
this conclusion is one observer 'outside the box, er, neighborhood to arrive
at the conclusion that all lawers are noble creatures because of what he has
observed during a court battle for abortion rights to negate all the
thinking my neighbor and I have done for the past several years.

Another possibility is that your neighborhood is the problem.

Although a 'GUT theorist' may never publicly admit it, the cannot believe in
anything they can't observe. The can't believe in Many Worlds, or Quantum
Computing (both for the same reason). They can't believe their wives are
cheating on them because they haven't observed it. Uh Huh.... Grand
Unification will never be disovered, not because it doesn't exist. No, it
will never be discovered because the people who are trying to find the
answers are so damn boring, and utterly lacking completely in imagination.

Well, I have to admit that doing science involves a lot of less-than-
exciting activities like having to support one's claims with something
other than its value for a potential star trek episode or performing
experiements for which hunting down sources of error takes 10 times as
long and requires 10 times the effort than the actual experiment. For some
reason, you just can't sit around pontificating how great it would be if
something were true and then expect someone else to do all the work while
you chastise them for lack of imagination when they tell you it isn't
true and experiments prove it isn't true.

Your historical timeline of scientific advancement does not recognise
the split at Newton,he goes one way and astronomers go another but
unfortunately astronomy faded after Roemer except as a supplier of
astronomical data for mathematicians,glorified photographers and
cataloguers in other words who could'nt model cosmological motion to
save their lives and so it remains to this day.

"Greysky" wrote in message
om...

For over a decade now, theorists have been attempting to formulate a
"Grand
Unification Theory" which if successful, will be able to unify Quantum
Mechanics and Relativity, show equations relating reality to space, time
and gravity.

"Grand unification, grand unified theory, or GUT (a misnomer, really) refers
to a theory in physics that unifies the strong interaction and electroweak
interaction. Several such theories have been proposed, but none is currently
universally accepted. The (future) theory that will also include gravity is
termed theory of everything."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grand_unified_theories

Greysky wrote:
For over a decade now, theorists have been attempting to formulate a
"Grand Unification Theory" which if successful, will be able to unify
Quantum Mechanics and Relativity, show equations relating reality
to space, time and gravity.

Before you start to critisize GUTs, perhaps you should read up a bit more
about what they ACTUALLY are as opposed to what YOU believe they are. GUTs
do NOT attempt to unify QM and gravity, in fact they don't attempt to
include gravity at all.
They do however, attempt to unify the electomagnetic, weak (elctroweak) and
strong forces

(Bilge) wrote in message
From what I know of topos theory, topos theory _is_ thinking outside
the box, about as far outside as you can get, so in a sense, your statement
might be considered a tautology.

Topos theory is a befuddled attempt to rework mathematics with a more
abstract and broad foundation than the current foundation of set
theory. The thinking goes that it may provide insights into the
unification of existing theories by grouping the mathematics behind
these theories into categories which would be better understood using
topos theory (as topoi).

It is literally befuddled because it is just a brute force approach to
making mutually inconsistent theories work together.

It's like saying x + x = 2x and x + x + x + x = 3x and then reworking
the foundations of mathematics to allow both propositions to be true
by classing x as some abstract object not invalidated by the
propositions.

It's a worthwhile pure mathematical endeavour, but a waste of time for
physics.

LOL!

Don't you just love a reply that starts out "All Newton did was ..."?

-ralph

Greysky wrote:

For over a decade now, theorists have been attempting to formulate a "Grand
Unification Theory" which if successful, will be able to unify Quantum
Mechanics and Relativity, show equations relating reality to space, time
and gravity. It should even be able to provide an explanation for where all
your missing socks went off to. But, this is never going to hapen.

Bull****. Any self-consistent theory in which c=c, h=h, and G=G each
explicitly is a candidate. We haven't evolved such a theory to date,
not even Ed Witten. It won't be discovered until it is discovered.
As with all things of fundamental value, it will be discovered by
someone wholly "undeserving" who is looking for something else. One
can only find the blue rose where it is not. Hallowed professors fail
where ink-stained patent clerks succeed. A guy driving along thinking
about a corned beef sandwich thinks about PCR and wins a Noble Prize
and fantastic wealth.

One reasonably posits that at least one given in contemporary theory
is an approximation that must be altered (e.g., lightspeed in Newton),
is flat out wrong in a broader context (e.g., Euclid's Fifth
Postulate), or has not yet been stated.

Modern
GUT theorists are basing their work on a false premise, and with such an
unstable foundation, all work from then on will be invalid.

We'r waiting, jackass. Are you going to disclose the "false premise"
up front like a scentist, or waffle on for untold paragraphs like a
Liberal Arts puke?

[snip aimless bull****]

Although a 'GUT theorist' may never publicly admit it, the cannot believe in
anything they can't observe. The can't believe in Many Worlds, or Quantum
Computing (both for the same reason). They can't believe their wives are
cheating on them because they haven't observed it. Uh Huh.... Grand
Unification will never be disovered, not because it doesn't exist. No, it
will never be discovered because the people who are trying to find the
answers are so damn boring, and utterly lacking completely in imagination.

Hey stooopid, learn the difference between science (empiricism) and
religion (faith). Only one of the two will get you a flush toilet.
Read the literature, you hopeless whining boor. You don't even know
what you don't know.

M-theory is wholly untestable and has infinite solutions - most of
them non-physical. Which of the things they cannot observe are they
not believing in, fool?

--
Uncle Al
http://www.mazepath.com/uncleal/qz.pdf
http://www.mazepath.com/uncleal/eotvos.htm
(Do something naughty to physics)