yuan wrote:

"Double Blind Method" was used in at least one of the Qi experiments.

It is mentioned on Page 391, the second paragraph - "A double blind
method was adopted for the experiment....."

Page 391 *OF WHAT*???

Lots of references where given - which one are you talking about?


Bye,
Bjoern

[snip lots of stuff]

Bill Hobba wrote:

cinquirer wrote:
I have extensive experiences with Qi numbering over a decade with
thousands of subjects and Qi healers from all over the world.
After months looking in physics group and internet for the atomic
model that can explain the physics of Qi and non_local effects.
I have encountered numerous models that attempt to describe it.
But it always falls short of the complete answer. Maybe the
truth is a combination of them. Maybe someone among you can make
sense what it is by the following short description of what
Qi can do (in the next paragraph). There are many physics wizards
here and one may figure out whether we are dealing with a Fifth
Force or a Qi Boson, etc. Note Qi is not biology or physics but
Bio-particle-physics that may even use substructure of the
Superstrings and beyond. Whatever Qi ultimately is. It is not a
misunderstanding of ordinary phenomenon (as explained below).

World renowned Tai Ch and Qi expert Earle Montague (who is the teacher of my
Tai Chi teacher) believes there is noting at all mysterious about Qi - it is
fully explainable in terms of standard ideas - nothing new is required. In
fact he has yet to find any Qi effects that are not simply explained. Also
after undergoing 5 years of accounted by a highly trained and very
experienced Chinese acupuncturist, and having discussed Qi at length with
her, the idea of Qi is simply 'breath' which is just a simple model for
complex things going on in the body. It is now well known, for example,
(and the person who discovered this received a Nobel Prize), that
acupuncture works by blocking and opening gates in the body.

Interesting. When did this happen (the Nobel Prize)? And what is meant
by "gates" here?


Bye,
Bjoern

cinquirer wrote:

Of course there are many ignorant people in the mountains in
the Philippines who don't know science and attributing some basic
functions to Qi when they are just for example metabolic process
or even breathing. About the chinese Tai Chi and Acupuncture
expert where she attribute Qi or Chi to normal functions like breath.
Well. When one breath in air, vitality globules that store this
energy Qi

What are "vitality globules"?


is clairvoyantly observed

This doesn't sound like a scientific observation to me...


to go inside the lungs as well
as the chakra vortex in the hands, spleen and other parts of the
body. This is what makes them think Qi has to do with Breath.
Let them come here and I'll emit very dense Qi to their head area
and they would immediately experience headache or migrane.

You claimed that you can do this at vast distances, right? Well, then
try it with me. Emit your "very dense Qi" to me at some time in the next
24 hours, let's say for 5 minutes, and I will look if I'll get any
headaches which last for 5 minutes in the next 24 hours. If yes, we can
afterwards compare the times at which I got the headache and at which
you emitted your "very dense Qi". (a small problem with this is that I
already have a bit of a headache right now - working too much at the
computer! ;-) )


And let them explain how it is merely breath. Gee. Well. Some
patients have very dense or gross Qi in their head area

What does "dense Qi" mean? How does one measure/quantify the density of
Qi?
How does one even measure/quantify the amount of Qi?


and the
origin of their migrane (although of course this has other causes
and we can know if its Qi related by "looking" if there is dense Qi
in the head area) and removing them by flicking to a basin of
salt water, can bring the nerves to normal and removing the migrane.

What has this to do with salt water?


[snip]

Bye,
Bjoern

Bjoern Feuerbacher wrote in message ...
cinquirer wrote:

To discuss fully about Qi. We need to take into account another
equally strange idea, that of bioetheric body or bioplasmic
body.

Why?

Because it's the one where chakra or energy vortex is located that
absorbs the Qi.



What is a bioplasmic or bioetheric body?? It's related to
Qi because it is the part of our body where it interacts with Qi.

That's not a definition, that's New Age gibberish.

With no standard definition. It should stand for the moment.


I've once asked whether the bioetheric body is just the mapping
of the biological body ATP cell fuel process, etc.

What is "mapping" supposed to mean here?

An energy mapping of the cell atp fuel status?



So I and other Qi
healers investigate those with amputated legs. We found out that
their missing legs bioetheric matter slowly dissipate and after
a year, it is no longer there.

How did you find this out? Why don't you give references to the articles
in which all these astonishing things were published?

Gee. I did the experiments with seers (see the thread "Seeing
Holographically" in alt.sci.physics.new.theories about the details
which I posted more than a month ago)


Upon amputation, the bioetheric
foot outline is still there, then it slowly disintegrate.

How do you know?

We can scan it with our hands (or see it). Just like this.

http://www.aiis.com.au/AIIS%20Subweb/techniques.htm



With
this observation, we can say that it is not the body cell fuel mapping,
because with the absence of flesh, it is still connected to the
entire bioetheric body like some kind of hologram.

What has this to do with holograms?

Just wondering how the missing foot bioetheric matter is still
connected. Perhaps the rest of the bioetheric body has a copy of
the foot energy pattern?



Now in my other investigations. I looked into inanimate matter with
a group of seers.

How?

Thru clairvoyant observation. See the message "Seeing Holographically
(hmm.. i might post this here later if you can't find the article)"



Inanimate matter doesn't have a bioetheric body
but just some kind of energy.

How did you determine this, and what do you mean by "some kind of
energy"? Do you know what "energy" means in physics?

The inanimate object has microscopic moving particles... don't know
if they are electrons or electromagnetic fields... perhaps more like
etheric field (excuse this term) as etheric vision can only detect
etheric matter (at this point, go search the long line of thread and
inquires and answers about this in the thread "Seeing Holographically"
discussed in the new.physics newsgroup more than a month ago. I
don't want to type them all over again. I'm here to understand the
physics of qi using the standard or enhanced model and not to convince
people about qi (even though I'm categorical about it).


With living matter, the energy is so dynamic.

What is this supposed to mean?

The etheric matter in living matter is so free flowing compared
to inanimate matter. For example. In humans, there are those chakras
or energy vortex that we qi healers deal on a daily basis and is
as common as keyboards in computers.



As if Qi is related to consciousness... as if Qi is
some kind of "conscious energy".

Err, is Qi connected to life or to consciousness? Could you please make
up your mind?

Life has consciousness.



When a person doesn't sleep for days, the bioetheric body can't
absorb Qi.

How do you know?

Because it's observe clairvoyantly that their Qi energy level is
so low. See the following for some diagram.
http://www.aiis.com.au/AIIS%20Subweb/etheric%20body.htm


And where does this "Qi" which the body can absorb (or can't) come from?


I guess the primary function of sleep is for
the bioetheric body to re-structure its energy web.

The functions of sleep are very well understood, you don't need to
invent another function and then claim, without the slightest hint of
evidence, that this is the *primary* function.

It's not well understood. It has not so much with do anabolism as
awakeness can do it too. See the latest Sci. American mag.



If consciousness
or awareness or being alive constantly uses the bioetheric body,

Which of these three? Make up your mind!

Hmm... when one talks of consciousness, one immediately think of
human's. But you can extend the word "consciousness" to think being
alive, so does a rat has consciousness. Better yet, call it awareness
or just being alive.. that's why I wrote those different terms above
for peoples different way to sematically use it.



it can't re-structure itself

Huh? Why?

Because our consciousness or awareness field is overlapping that of
the bioetheric body so sleeping can disengage it for a while and
it restructuring itself energetically.



and has difficulting absorbing Qi.

Huh? Why?

Because it's not structured to receive the qi energy matrix.



This resulting in weaknesses in the body with decreased immune
function so the main purpose of sleep may be related to this
bioetheric and Qi thing. In the latest Scientific American Nov.
Edition. It discusses at length about sleeping and it can't find
the reason why we sleep even though it investigates so many
facts, like our unconscious function or cellular function dependent
on it. At the end, it is quoted as saying, "As we further study
the mechanisms and evolution of sleep, we will probably gain
insights into exactly what is repaired and rested, why these
processes are best done in sleep".

Well, that tells to me that we already know a lot about sleep, only the
fine details are missing.

Not so. But let's not debate about sleeping just the basic about Qi
and biotheric body (as I have said, my theory about the primary
purpose of sleeping being qi and bioetherically related it just theory).




and it
may be wrong, and it no way remove the existence of the bioetheric
body.

How can one show that this "body" exists?

Develope the sensitivity to touch or see it. Are you related to
James Randi. Wow. I love to debate those people and its a challenge
how to show them the proof of what I've observed.




So what is the bioetheric body. Maybe some kind of informational
field

What is this supposed to mean?

That's what I want to know. Some kind of field where some information
is contained.



that informs living system,

Informs them about what?

About the overall status of the organism??




and Qi being some kind of
power that maintain the energy matrix of the information field??

New Age gibberish. What's an "energy matrix"? Why does it need to be
"maintained"? What is this supposed to mean?

Without Qi, the bioetheric body breaks down. That's it. Don't sleep
for 10 days and your Qi would be so low and your immune system
can't function optimally even if you eat all the food in the world.




What is the function of this information field.

Better question: What *is* an information field? Why do you always
ignore this question? Why do you refuse to define your terms?

information field. A field that holds information. What
I intend to find out is if it holds information about the
integrity of the biology or just to anchor conscousness.




This was what
I've asked myself. Does morphogenesis or the growth of the body
shape of an embryo depend on genetic or cellular signaling or
does it needs the field.

According to current research, it works quite nice without any
"information field".

Yes, that's what I'm studying too. We need to make eliminations of
what it doesn't do.



Suppose it doesn't need the field, then
the purpose of the bioetheric field is to conduct consciousness,

How do you know this?

If morphogenesis and ordinary morpho (shape) maintainance doesn't
depend on the bioetheric field. Then what is the purpose of the
boetheric field?? If there is gross Qi in a body, how come the
person feels pain??



so the mystery lies in what is consciousness. Is it merely the
firing of neurons that create consciousness.

Probably, yes. Is there any reason to think otherwise?

Consciousness may be some field.


c





In part, one can
say yes. When you decrease some neurotransmitters, the person
can get depressed, so it can act on consciousness, but does the
entire brain creates consciousness itself.

Again, probably yes.


Or does conciousness
or being biologically alive (be it rats or humans) depend on some
kind of fields.

Again: make up your mind!

And please read up what "field" means in physics! You seem to use it as
a typical New Age buzz word, instead of with its physical meaning!


This is the clue where the determination of what
is the bioetheric body and its qi requirement lies. The
investigation goes on. I'm also studying the real nature of matter
(thru particle physics) like how does the bioetheric body get
interfaced to the atoms of the body.

You don't need particle physics to understand how the body works.
Studying biophysics would be much more helpful.




I notice that instead of answering Mark's requests, you totally ignored
them and simply delivered another sermon. Interesting.


And, BTW, top posting isn't good - it destroys the structure of the
debate. Quote what the one who answer to said, and then respond to it
*below*. This makes it much easier to follow the debate.


c

Mark Fergerson wrote in message ...
cinquirer wrote:
Mark, Tadchem, Bjoern,


I don't know how to explain Qi in physics.. as its physics
is not yet discovered. It's like explaining blood in the
16th century. People know it existed but only 20th century
science can explain it. Likewise with Qi. Only 22th century
physics may explain it (although many scientists have tried.

It may also be like explaining Phlogiston, which was
poorly understood until it was shown to be nonexistent. That
didn't happen until effects attributed to it were properly
identified as being due to other specifiable causes. You say
you've observed effects which you attribute to Qi; how do
you _know_ they're not attributable to other, more mundane,
causes? Until you answer that, you'll elicit little positive
interest. If you say that you don't know how, you'll get
grief as being lazy, since double-blind technique is not
complex, just tedious. Until you positively eliminate known
physics in explaining your observations, why should we (or
you, for that matter) not believe you're merely fooling
yourself?

large snip; apocryphal until the above is done

Right now. I want to focus in understanding the physics of
Qi... . I just want to have a
rough idea of what Qi is.

Then reproducibly determine its properties, and
rigorously separate them from known physics. Make hypotheses
based on what properties you see (derive sets of rules) that
explain those properties _and_ predict other evidence you
haven't looked for yet (frinst time of propagation, untested
subjects/materials etc.), then _test_ those new predictions,
and repeat until you eliminate all hypotheses but one.
That's how theories come to be.

BTW I insist that you show rigorously how Qi is outside
the Standard Model because you insist that "living matter"
(which you haven't defined) shows Qi effects in a way the SM
doesn't account for. So, show me the border.

(Oh, and don't go directly to exotic supersymmetry stuff
when I say "Standard Model"; first eliminate mundane
mechanics, electromagnetism, thermodynamics, and chemistry.)

If you think the border will be fuzzy (that Qi can affect
"dead" matter too), then you need to predict how fuzzy it
is, and exactly where the overlap is, which will integrate
your eventual theory of Qi and the SM.

If you do find some unaccounted-for facts, at some point
you'll need to construct a mathematical framework for your
(proven) rules, and if some correlation is seen between that
and the math underlying the SM, there's hope of
incorporating both into a larger whole. But don't put your
faith in math exclusively; the "beauty" of a mathematical
structure is no clear indicator of its relationship to reality.

Mark L. Fergerson

Bjoern Feuerbacher wrote in message ...
cinquirer wrote:

Of course there are many ignorant people in the mountains in
the Philippines who don't know science and attributing some basic
functions to Qi when they are just for example metabolic process
or even breathing. About the chinese Tai Chi and Acupuncture
expert where she attribute Qi or Chi to normal functions like breath.
Well. When one breath in air, vitality globules that store this
energy Qi

What are "vitality globules"?


I'll write this in a separate message.


is clairvoyantly observed

This doesn't sound like a scientific observation to me...


to go inside the lungs as well
as the chakra vortex in the hands, spleen and other parts of the
body. This is what makes them think Qi has to do with Breath.
Let them come here and I'll emit very dense Qi to their head area
and they would immediately experience headache or migrane.

You claimed that you can do this at vast distances, right? Well, then
try it with me. Emit your "very dense Qi" to me at some time in the next
24 hours, let's say for 5 minutes, and I will look if I'll get any
headaches which last for 5 minutes in the next 24 hours. If yes, we can
afterwards compare the times at which I got the headache and at which
you emitted your "very dense Qi". (a small problem with this is that I
already have a bit of a headache right now - working too much at the
computer! ;-) )

I have to lock into your energy signature. It's best if you get
into one of those pranic healing centers so that they can monitor
the status of your bioetheric body. If I emit those very dense
Qi and it stays in your head. It may rotate into other parts of
your body and don't want to be the cause of your health problem.
So by being in a pranic healing center. At least they can detect
what happen to it and clean it. How about this. See if your country
has one of those pranic healing branches (remember my country is
the headquarter of it and we have branches in many countries).

http://www.pranichealing.org/directory/usa.htm

I'd enroll and pay you there for the lessons for free (so you can
learn all that I and many qi healers do). And if you can
debunk it, you will get additional $10,000 or you like $1 million?
But if you can't debunk it. Well. Just pay me the fees I paid for
you. I can't ask you for the $1 million challenge because you can't
debunk it as it is based on reality (I investigated it for 10 years).



And let them explain how it is merely breath. Gee. Well. Some
patients have very dense or gross Qi in their head area

What does "dense Qi" mean? How does one measure/quantify the density of
Qi?
How does one even measure/quantify the amount of Qi?

Thru qi scanning as shared in the other thread or by looking at it.
I think I'd repost the message "Seeing Holographically" as once
posted in the new.theories group.



and the
origin of their migrane (although of course this has other causes
and we can know if its Qi related by "looking" if there is dense Qi
in the head area) and removing them by flicking to a basin of
salt water, can bring the nerves to normal and removing the migrane.

What has this to do with salt water?

For example, someone has a very bioetheric body. We can flick off
the dirty bioetheric matter into the salt water and it will dissolve
there. If we just put it in air, it can go back to the patient body
like connected to a rubber band.



[snip]

Bye,
Bjoern

"Bill Hobba" wrote in message ...
cinquirer wrote:
I have extensive experiences with Qi numbering over a decade with
thousands of subjects and Qi healers from all over the world.
After months looking in physics group and internet for the atomic
model that can explain the physics of Qi and non_local effects.
I have encountered numerous models that attempt to describe it.
But it always falls short of the complete answer. Maybe the
truth is a combination of them. Maybe someone among you can make
sense what it is by the following short description of what
Qi can do (in the next paragraph). There are many physics wizards
here and one may figure out whether we are dealing with a Fifth
Force or a Qi Boson, etc. Note Qi is not biology or physics but
Bio-particle-physics that may even use substructure of the
Superstrings and beyond. Whatever Qi ultimately is. It is not a
misunderstanding of ordinary phenomenon (as explained below).

World renowned Tai Ch and Qi expert Earle Montague (who is the teacher of my
Tai Chi teacher) believes there is noting at all mysterious about Qi - it is
fully explainable in terms of standard ideas - nothing new is required. In
fact he has yet to find any Qi effects that are not simply explained. Also
after undergoing 5 years of accounted by a highly trained and very
experienced Chinese acupuncturist, and having discussed Qi at length with
her, the idea of Qi is simply 'breath' which is just a simple model for
complex things going on in the body. It is now well known, for example,
(and the person who discovered this received a Nobel Prize), that
acupuncture works by blocking and opening gates in the body.


see
http://www.quackwatch.org/01Quackery...opics/acu.html

Bjoern Feuerbacher wrote in message ...
Bill Hobba wrote:

cinquirer wrote:
I have extensive experiences with Qi numbering over a decade with
thousands of subjects and Qi healers from all over the world.
After months looking in physics group and internet for the atomic
model that can explain the physics of Qi and non_local effects.
I have encountered numerous models that attempt to describe it.
But it always falls short of the complete answer. Maybe the
truth is a combination of them. Maybe someone among you can make
sense what it is by the following short description of what
Qi can do (in the next paragraph). There are many physics wizards
here and one may figure out whether we are dealing with a Fifth
Force or a Qi Boson, etc. Note Qi is not biology or physics but
Bio-particle-physics that may even use substructure of the
Superstrings and beyond. Whatever Qi ultimately is. It is not a
misunderstanding of ordinary phenomenon (as explained below).

World renowned Tai Ch and Qi expert Earle Montague (who is the teacher of my
Tai Chi teacher) believes there is noting at all mysterious about Qi - it is
fully explainable in terms of standard ideas - nothing new is required. In
fact he has yet to find any Qi effects that are not simply explained. Also
after undergoing 5 years of accounted by a highly trained and very
experienced Chinese acupuncturist, and having discussed Qi at length with
her, the idea of Qi is simply 'breath' which is just a simple model for
complex things going on in the body. It is now well known, for example,
(and the person who discovered this received a Nobel Prize), that
acupuncture works by blocking and opening gates in the body.

Interesting. When did this happen (the Nobel Prize)? And what is meant
by "gates" here?


Bye,
Bjoern


The following discusses the way Western scientists look at Acupuncture
and what it may really truly be. The first three paragraph is kinda
funny. Skip in half the text in this message if you don't want all the
technical details of what acupuncture may be as shared by Dr. Richard
Gerber in Vibration Medicine (For Scrutiny by Biophysicists or other
sci wizards. I don't have any background in acupuncture so can't
comment anything)

Quoting Gerber:

"The acupuncturists see meridian dysfunction as a precursor of organ
pathology. The meridian circuit abnormality reflects an imbalance in
the polar energies of the forces of yin and yang. Neither force exists
alone, but is in relation to the total energetic needs of the
organism. Acupuncture's restoration of energy balance in the body's
meridian circuitry will result in an improvemerit in disease states by
correcting the energetic patterns which precede cellular dysfunction
and disorganization.

Utilizing this type of energetic philosophy, Chinese acupuncturists
have been able to successfully impact upon many different organ
disease besides simple pain syndromes. Unfortunately, the Western mind
has chosen to focus on that particular dimension of therapy because,
until recently, only acupuncture analgesia seemed to make rational
scientific sense. This view is the result of identifying the meridian
channels with the nervous system instead of seeing them as a unique
energetic system. The metaphorical philosophy of organ energy circuits
behaving like earthly elements, yin and yang, is too much for most
Western physicians to tolerate.

To the majority of Western scientists, acupuncture meridians seem like
irnaginary structures because there are no published anatomical
studies of the meridians in orthodox medical journals to substantiate
their existence. They prefer to believe that nerve pathways constitute
the true mechanisrn of acupuncture therapy. The way for Western
scientists to conceptualize acupuncture meridians will probably come\0
from new physics instead of medicine, because new physics
conceptualizes energy in a similar way.

The acupuncture meridian and nervous systems operate in complimentary
fashion. Each system works in harmony to translate higher energetic
events into cellular patterns of physiology. The work of Kim Bong Han
suggests that there are actual tubular meridian structures which run
throughout the framework of the physical body. Kim's extensive studies
have demonstrated the existence of a separate division of this
ductule-like meridian system which is specifically involved with
providing energy to the neuronal net work of the body. By severing the
nutrient meridians supplying the nerves, Kim found that nerve
conduction times were significantly prolonged.

One might ask at this point if there is any other experimental
evidence besides the work of Kim Bong Han that adds further testimony
to the existence of the acupuncture meridian network? Is there further
research which substantiates the correspondence of the Chinese system
of meridian Pathways to the organs of the body? The answer to this
question is yes. Research confirming the meridian-organ link has been
conducted utilizing systematic measurement of the electrical
characteristics of the meridian system. Through the measurement of
these electrical parameters, it may be possible to demonstrate not
only the existence of the meridians but also the diagnostic potential
of the acupuncture system in pinpointing diseased organ systems.

The Acupuncture Meridian System as A Diagnostic Interface

Acupuncture points have unique electrical characteristics which
distinguish them from surrounding skin. The drop in electrical skin
resistance at the acupoints (a reflection of increased conductivity)
can be used to electronically locate these points along the
superficial meridians. A number of experimental studies by various
Eastern researchers have suggested that the acupuncture points may be
useful not only in treatment but also in diagnosis of disease states.

Dr. Hiroshi Motoyama, a researcher in Japan (mentioned earlier as the
developer of the chakra machine), has also devised a system which
measures the electrical characteristics of the various acupuncture
meridians in order to obtain physiological information. The device,
called by Motoyama the AMI Machine, short for Apparatus for Measuring
the Functions Of the Meridians and Corresponding Internal Organ, is a
computerized system which can diagnose physiological imbalances within
an individual in a matter of m inutes. The AMI Machine has 28
electrodes which attach to the terminal acupuncture points of each of
the meridians, characteristically located at the ends of the fingers
and toes. Acupuncture needles or specialized clips are attached to
these acupoints in order to obtain electrical information. The
electrical data from the acupuncture points is relayed to a special
computer which then analyzes and interprets the information.

The points which are measured by the AMI Machine are the termination
points of the paired meridians. The lung meridian, which brings ch'i
energy to the lungs, actually exists as a paired set. One of the
meridians travels along the right side of the body and the other along
the left. The rationale behind measuring electrical data from the
paired meridians stems from the Chinese theory of yin and yang. The
modern adaptation of this theory suggests that internal organs which
are in a state of energetic balance (i.e., health) will have paired
acupuncture meridians which are electrically similar in value. Organs
which have underlying disease that may be already present or about to
manifest will demonstrate a marked electrical difference between the
two associated meridian pairs. The AMI Machine is able to register
localized skin currents coming from the acupoints at the ends of the
meridians.'

Motoyama studied over five thousand subjects utilizing the AMI Machine
in order to derive statistical reference values for physiological and
electrical normality and abnormality Electrical differences between
the right and left meridians of an order greater than two standard
deviations from the norm were printed out by the AMI unit in red in
order to highlight the organ systems that are out of balance. Meridian
pair values that are electrically similar (by computer reference
standards) were printed out in b lack.

Motoyama and others working with the AMI Machine have found strong
correlations between meridians that are electrically out of balance
and the presence of underlying disease in the associated organ
systerns. The Bob Hope Parkinson Research Institute in Florida has
been working with the AMI Machine in order to study energetic
abnormalities and physiologic imbalances in individuals with
Parkinson's Disease (a degenerative neurological disorder which
affects motor coordination). Early data obtained from the AM I Machine
suggests that many Parkinsonian patients have abnormalities (as
predicted by meridian imbalances) in the large and small intestines as
well as the heart. It is possible that this gastrointestinal imbalance
reflects a functional problem with the bowel's absorption of key
nutrients involved in neurotransmitter synthesis. Parkinson patients
are known to have deficits of dopamine in certain nuclei of the brain
known as the basal ganglia. Re searchers at the institute hope to use
the AMI to distinguish different stages and types of Parkinsonism and
perhaps gain information that could help patients and physicians
attain greater control over the primary disease process.

One local government in Japan is using the AMI Machine to screen all
employees during their annual required medical examination. Only those
individuals with abnormal meridian readouts are required to undergo
further medical diagnostic testing. A number of other medical
practitioners in the United States are also utilizing the AMI with
positive results.

The early success of the AMI technology does more than affirm the
usefulness of acupuncture- based technologies. The fact that AMI
information correlates with the status of deep internal organs
confirms the ancient Chinese theory associating particular meridians
with specific organ systems. Also, we are now examining acupuncture
theory from a diagnostic perspective. The acupuncture meridians are
being used not just for therapy but for diagnosis as well.

Western theories on acupuncture mechanisms have tended to focus on
neurological pathways of action such as spinal gate mechanisms and on
endorphin release in the brain. Although nerve stimulation may be
acceptable to scientists attempting to explain acupuncture analgesia,
it is less clear how a peripheral nerve in the finger or toe would be
able to give valuable information about the status of a patient's
liver or lung.

Data from the AMI Machine adds further evidence to support the
existence of the meridian system and its predicted organ associations.
Through instrumentation like the AMI Machine, the acupuncture meridian
system is beginning to find technologic confirmation and value as a
model of Physiological functioning. In addition, the ability to
noninvasively diagnose early disease states or tendencies toward
illness via external electrical monitoring of the acupoints has
obvious significance for public health screeni ng.

Another system of instrumentation which has brought credence to
Chinese acupuncture theory has been Kirlian photography and its
technologic offshoots. Initial reports on Kirlian work from the Soviet
Union suggested that acupuncture points could be photographed
utilizing high. frequency discharge devices. Some replication of this
claim has also been carried out by a number of American Kirlian
investigators, including Pizzo and others. Perhaps the most
sophisticated approach to electrographic imaging of acupu ncture
points has been researched by Dr. Ion Dumitrescu, a Rumanian physician
who has developed a body-scanning process known as electronography.

Dumitrescu's work with electronography is a reflection of his search
to develop the Kirlian process beyond the level of the primitive
fingerprint devices presently in use by most researchers. Utilizing
computers and special scanning electrodes, electronography has allowed
electrographic scanning of large body surfaces such as the chest and
abdomen. In his early work, Dumitrescu noted particular areas on the
body where electrically radiant points appeared. Many of these points,
which he referred to as electr odermal points, were found to correlate
with the classical acupuncture points along the body. After studying
literally thousands of individuals with the electronographic process,
Durnitreseu came to a number of conclusions about these electrodermal
(or acupuncture) points.

It was found that the points only appeared in electrographic scans of
individuals where pathology was present (or imminent) in a particular
organ system. The points which were found to glow brightly coincided
with acupuncture points along the meridian associated with the
diseased organ. The size and brightness of the acupuncture points was
later found to correlate with their electrical activity and the
acuteness of the disease process The larger the electrodermal points,
the more acute the pathology. The el ectrodermal points did not appear
in electrographic scans if there were no underlying or active diseases
within the body. In other words, acupuncture points would only be
electrically visible when there was a meridian imbalance reflecting
underlying organ dysfunction. Although the rneri, dians themselves
were not photographed by this process, the electrodermal points were
often found to occur along linear paths mirroring classical
acupuncture meridians.

Dumitrescu has concluded that the electrodermal points are "electrical
pores" concerned with energy exchange between the body and the
surrounding electrical medium. They are a point of communication
between the organism and its surrounding energetic fields.
Durnitrescu's discoveries on the behavior of electrodermal points
complement the electrical meridian data from Motoyama's AMI Machine.
Both researchers independently established the link between energetic
meridian imbalance and underlying organ patholog y. Dumitrescu's
research demonstrates in a more graphic fashion the nature of energy
exchange between the electromagnetic environment and the meridians via
the acupuncture points. Motoyama monitored specific acupuncture points
for illness, while in Durnitrescu's electronographic scans of the body
the acupoints reflecting energetic imbalance appeared spontaneously as
sites of energy disturbance.

The acupuncture meridian system is an interface of energetic exch ange
between our physical body and the energy fie lds which surround us.
These electromagnetic energies include not only local and cosmic
environmental factors but also other types of energetic input from our
higher frequency bodies such as the etheric.

The phenomena which are measured by these new technologies, such as
the AMI Machine and the electrographic scanner, are electrical
reflections of higher frequency energetic processes. As we saw in our
earlier chapter discussing positive and negative space/ time energies,
these higher frequency energies are of a primarily magnetic nature.
Research suggests that the etheric body forms a type of holographic
magnetic grid which communicates with the electrically based matter
and cells of the physical body Via t he acupuncture meridian system.

The electrical potentials measured at the acupuncture points reflect
subtle internal currents which move throughout the meridian system.
These internal currents flow through a specialized meridian circuitry
which distributes these vital, organizing, subtle magnetic energies to
the organs of the body. The acupuncture meridian system interacts with
the nervous system through a series of energy transduction steps which
ultimately allow these higher energetic phenomena to influence
cellular electrophysiology.

The Meridian-Glial Network: An Electrical Interface with the Human
Nervous System

The reason that Western theorists have discovered neural and
neuro-hormonal links with the acupuncture system is not because the
meridians are nerves. it is because a division of the meridian system
works closely with and influences the central and peripheral nervous
system. The nervous system communicates by way of electrical action
potentials which transmit messages via a special digital frequency
language. Information is conveyed by changes in the frequency of
action-potential bursts. The brain is able to interpret this frequency
information by rapidly decoding t he changes in f iring rates of
incoming action potentials (electrical nerve signals). In other words,
the nervous system transmits and receives information through messages
that are digitally encoded in the number of electrical nerve firings
per second. The same numerical code of nerve firing rates will carry
different meanings, depending upon whether a particular nerve is
communicating with the area of the brain that processes touch, smell,
taste, or another sensory center .

It has been recently discovered that the Shwann and glial cell
systems, formerly felt to have only nutritive function to the nerves
they surround, also carry out an additional function of an electrical
nature. Research has indicated that the glial cell network is able to
transmit information via slow shifts in DC-current potentials. This
type of information transmission is referred to as analog-based, as
opposed to the digital pulse code of neural action potentials. The
analog system of data transmission op erates by varying the voltage of
the cell membrane (the DC-current membrane potential), where an upward
or downward shift in cell voltage translates into a particular
character and type of information that is relayed along the glial
circuit. Analog transmission is known to be considerably slower than
digital transmission but is communication.

The DC-current system of the glial cells appears to be involved in
self healing electrical feedback loops and relates to such phenomena
as the current of injury. This was discussed with the work of Dr.
Becker in Chapter 3. It is likely that the acupuncture system as some
type of input into the nervous system as evidenced by acupuncture
analgesia's ability to cause endorphin release in the brain. At one
level, this might be accomplished by influencing the DC potentials of
the glial cell network which follow the athways of the nerves.
Electrical currents conducted through the acupuncture meridian system
may reflect the meridians' role in for ming a unique type of energy
circulatory system that exists in relation to other established
phyysiologic pathways. It is possible that the DC-currents associated
ivith meridian and glial network may influence the production and
transmission of action potentials by the nerves. Certain source
tends to support this hypothesis:

"The direct current potentials, measurable on the intact surfaces of
all living beings, demonstrate a complex field pattern that is
spatially related to the anatomical arrangement of the nervous system.
The surface potentials are directly associated with elements of the
various circlatory systems. The "fifth circulatory system" is one
which is connected with an internal energetic current working through
the acupuncture lines. It is continually at work and available to
shape the action potential system, which is used by the network of
nerves. This action potential system, therefore, exists upon a
substratum of direct current potentials which actually precede the
action -potential mechanism of data transmission. The preexisting
direct current potentials have original functions which govern
biological processes, thereby controlling the basic properties of
living organisms.

The human form is a grid of magnetic domains which move between the
primary blueprint of the Overself (etheric and higher light bodies),
and the pattern angles of the human organs, (i.e., the axial
relationship). The lines which tie together these magnetic domains are
known as "axiatonal lines. " Axiatonal grids (formed by intersecting
axiatonal lines) interface with the biological activities of the
organism. The grids allow interaction of the physical cellular struc-
ture with higher or lower vibratory frequencies.

Man's biological interconnection with the higher frequency energies
takes place through the Acupuncture Meridian System, which is
interfaced with the Axiatonal Une and Grid System. The acupuncture and
axiatonal lines are part of a fifth dimensional circulatory system,
which are used to draw from the Overself body, the basic energy used
for renewing the physical- cellular form."

This paraphysical data puts into perspective the neural link between
the acupuncture meridian system, the electrical currents measured at
the Acupoints, and the meridian interface to the higher energetic
domains (collectively referred to here as the overself). It is
suggested that meridian energetic inputs influence the
action-potential output of the nervous system by varying the
DC-currents which are part of the electrical environment in which the
neurons function. This indirect energetic link with the nervous
system' explains why one can measure neurological phenomena in
response to acupuncture stimulation.

Dr. Bruce Pomeranz has done studies on the transmission of action
Potentials through neuronal pain pathways in the spinal cord as they
are influenced by acupuncture analgesia." Pomeranz found that painful
stimuli to a mouse's tail were accompanied by a significant increase
in the firing rate of neurons along the pain pathway in the spinal
cord. Acupuncture analgesia, directed toward desensitizing the tail to
pain, resulted in an inability to increase the neuronal firing rate
beyond the resting level in res ponse to painful stimuli, but only
after a 30-minute interval. Mice whose pituitary glands were
surgically removed were unable to demonstrate the same
acupuncture-mediated suppression of nerve response to pain. Naloxone,
an endorphin blocking agent, also prevented this acupuncture- mediated
phenomenon. Pomeranz's conclusion from the study was that endorphins
were the mediators of acupuncture analgesia.

Endorphin release is a measureable event in the acupuncture pathway,
but Pomeranz's experimental data does not explain how a stimulus to
the acupoint travels to the pituitary gland over this delay period.
The 30-minute delay suggests some type of slow signal transmission.
The mechanism of transmission is likely to involve slow analog DC
changes in the glial cell network, as discovered by Dr. Robert Becker
in his research on the current of injury. These DC-current changes in
the glial cell network are probab ly influenced by energetic changes
in the meridians after the acupoints have been stimulated. The glial
DC-current changes subsequently affect activity in the neurons leading
to the central nervous system. Therefore, the glial cell network may
function as an interface between the meridians and the nervous system.
Exactly how changes in DC potentials affect nerve firing rates is a
rather complex issue. In order to understand how this may take place,
we must first understand some of the basic aspects of neuro
physiology.

Recent neurochemical research has led scientists to a more complete
model of nerve cell functioning. It is now known that neurons do not
turf, on and off when they transmit signals. The nerve cells exist in
a constant state of readiness and activity which allows them to
respond to stimuli in milliseconds. The nerve cells are constantly
releasing minute quanta of neurotransmitters into the synaptic gaps
between themselves and the neurons they contact. At these synaptic
sites, the continuous release If micro amounts of transmitters keeps
the system quietly active, yet poised for action, in a fashion similar
to a car's engine on slow idle. One need O'lls, step on the
accelerator to speed up an engine which is already in a state of
readiness to respond.

When an action potential is initiated in a nerve cell, such as when
the peripheral nerve relays sensory information from pressure
receptors in the skin, the electrical impulse initiates a sequence of
events that ultimately sends a message to the brain. A stimulus to the
receptor in the skin initiates this chain of events by starting a
volley of action -potential bursts that travel down the axis of the
sensory nerve fiber until they reach its synaptic ends. At these
synapse relay stations, nerve endings exist side by side, with
microscopic gaps between them. The electrical impulse undergoes an
energetic translation at the synaptic gap through its conversion into
a neurotransmitter release. Each action potential stimulates the
presynaptic nerve to release, into the synaptic cleft, tiny packets of
neurotransmitter which induce electrical ch anges in the cell membrane
of the adjacent nerv e. These electrical changes, in turn, are
reconverted into the digital pulse code of action -potential bursts
which are rapidly transmitted to the end of that nerve and another
synaptic gap. The final synapses occur after spinal cord neurons relay
the digitized sensory message to the brain.

The process of neurotransmitter release is affected by the number and
rapidity of action potentials reaching the presynaptic membrane in
addition to local membrane factors. These local factors have their
effects upon the electrical potential of the neuronal membrane. The
cell membrane's electrical potential determines the responsiveness of
each neuron to releasing neurotransmitter packets on cue. The
electrical status of the neuronal membrane is affected by many
factors. The most significant of these factors, only recently
understood, is the effect of other neurochemicals which are in contact
with the individual nerve cell. Each nerve cell exists, not in
isolation, but in contact with many other nerves in a network. The
synaptic foot-processes of many different nerves impinge upon any
single neuron. These foot-processes contain many different types of
neurochemicals, which have varying effects upo n the nerve membranes
they synapti cally contact.

Although there appear to be many types of neurochemicals, it is now
clear that most neurotransmitters function in two general ways. One
group is known as the excitatory neurotransmitters. These chemicals
increase the responsiveness of the individual neuron to electrical
stimulation. The other group is the inhibitory transmitters. They
decrease the responsiveless of the neuron they contact by causing
opposing shifts in neuronal cell membrane potential. What happens at
the individual neuronal membrane is that the many neurochemical
influences summate in a particular electrical direction. The
electrical status of the neuronal membrane changes frorn moment to
moment. The electrical responsiveness of each neuron is proportional
to the balance of inhibitory and excitatory transmitters impinging
upon the cell membrane near the synapse at any one moment in time.

Of the newer transmitters discovered, the endorphins are considered a
hot area of research in conventional medicine. They are one of a
growing number of newly discovered brain chemicals which are currently
under study in the developing field of neuroendocrinology. Of the many
neurochemicals under investigation, it is the endorphins which figure
most prominently in conventional theories of acupuncture analgesia.
The endorphins belong to a class of neurochemicals which have been
referred to as "neuromodulator s "or "neuroregulators. These
chemicals modulate the effects of other transmitter systems through
their ability to influence neuronal membranes. The endorphins belong
to a subclass of transmitters known as peptidergic hormones" (or
neuropeptides). Other neurochemical divisions of the nervous system
include the adrenergic, cholinergic, and dopaminergic systems. In
addition, there are many other neurochemical transmitters whose
functions are poorly understood at this time. Alth ough there are many
different n eurochemical substances which may impinge upon nerve
cells, there appear to be additional membrane factors, aside from
neurochemicals, which modulate the transmission of neural impulses.
Specifically, changes in the electrical field microenvironment of the
synapse may influence neurotransmission. In order to understand how
these energetic membrane factors relate to the neurological effects of
acupuncture, let us return to Dr. Pomeranz's groundbreaking study

Dr. Pomeranz discovered that acupuncture analgesia caused the release
of endorphins from the pituitary gland. Endorphin release was found to
coincide with the inhibition of pain impulse transmission to the
brain. Pomeranz found that acupuncture analgesia prevented painful
stimuli from increasing the firing rate of spinal cord neurons above
basal resting levels, but only after a 30-minute period. Endorphin
blocking agents were able to prevent this this acupuncture-induced
neuronal change. There was found to be a 30- minute delay period from
initial acupoint stimulation to eventual endorphin release. The delay
appears to be due to slow transmission of the initial signal from the
acupoint to the pituitary gland before endorpin release can occur. It
is suggested by this author that the release of endorPhi"' is not the
final endpoint, but only an intermediary event along a complex
transmission pathway.

The ultimate pathway of action in acupuncture from acupoint
stimulation to final physiologic result must be viewed from the
perspective of sequential stages of energy transduction. This
principle of stepping down energies from one level to another in a
type of cascade effect is seen in many organizational levels of
biological function. There are, however, technological limitations in
the ability of Western scientists to trace the pathways of expression
when causes originate at the subtle energetic level. One's ability to
define true cause and effect (as in the case of the neurohormonal
effects of acupuncture) may be limited by the sensitivity of the
measuring devices chosen to monitor the biological systems in
question.

At the physical level, we can easily measure neurohormonal changes,
such as increases in spinal-fluid endorphin levels, that are a result
of acupuncture stimulation. These neurochemical changes are secondary
by-products of energy signal transduction through the meridian
-nervous system link. An energetic signal becomes converted into a
hormonal signal. The path between stimulus and response follows a more
circuitous route than the nervous system alone. The nerves form a link
in a chain of events. The neurological model of acupuncture is, at
present, only partially adequate to fully explain the 30-minute delay
in signal transmission. If nerves were the primary mechanism in
acupuncture, one would expect a faster response time from needle
insertion to analgesic effect. Nerve response time is ordinarily in
the range of milliseconds, not minutes. Some theorists have suggested
that the time delay between needle stimulation and pain relief is due
to the slow release of the endorphins from the pituitary, and their
gradual effect upon the pain-relaying nerve fibers in the spinal cord.
However, an alternate theory proposed by this author may give greater
understanding to both the 30-minute delay in pain relief as well as
the complex nature of the acupuncture- nervous system link.

It is likely that part of the delay noted in signal transmission is
due to participation of the glial-cell network in meridian energy
transduction. The glial cells demonstrate a slower method of analog
data transmission via gradual shifts in DC potentials. This perineural
transmission system is composed of Schwann, glia, and satellite cells
which form an electrointeractive interface with the nervous system.
The perineural network participates in one intermediate step in a
series of progressive signal transductions whereby primary meridian
energies ultimately influence the nervous system.

From initial acupoint stimulation, there occurs a stepwise
transformation of the natural energetic currents which flow form the
meridians to the nerves. The Primary energetic currents flowing
through the meridians are of a negatively-entropic magnetic nature
(negative space/time energy). These magnetic currents, flowing through
the acupuncture meridians, induce secondary electrical fields at the
physical tissue level. It is these secondary electrical field effects,
associated with the acupuncture points arid meridian system, which are
measured by such instruments as Motoyama AMI Machine and
Durnitrescu's electrographic scanner.

These induced electrical fields are translated into DC-current
interactions between the meridian and glial-cell network. The meridian
network interfaces with the axiatonal grid system, an etheric-
energetic structure which focuses higher frequency energies into the
physical body One entry point for these higher energies thus occurs at
the acupoint- meridian network via its connection to the
etheric-axiatonal grid. The grid provides an access route for the
organizing life-energies which provide and maintain coherence within
the physical -cellular structure. These subtle magnetic currents
create measureable changes in the physical -cellular matrix, in part
through the induction of secondary electrical fields. These electrical
fields go on to affect primary bioelectronic processes which occur at
the cellular level.

The glial-cell network is part of a DC-current / analog- based system
of information transmission which participates in bioelectrical
processes of cellular repair typified by the current-of -injury
phenomenon. By modifying the energy-field environment of the glial
cells, the meridian system is able to directly affect bioelectronic
systems of growth and repair. In addition, the meridian -glial network
also utilizes DC-current effects to create an electromagnetic
microenvironment around the nerves of the body The otentials carried
over the glial and Schwann cells energetically affect the nerves they
surround by creating specialized microenergetic influences at the
presynaptic sites. These electrical-fieldphenomena modulate neural
responsiveness to stimulation and conduction by varying changes in
neuronal membrane Potentials. The DC field effects summate with the
chemical neuromodulators and act in concert at the presynaptic nerve
membrane. The total effects of chem ical neuromodulators, combined
with DC-current influences, act to fine tune the digital transmission
of the action potential code. Thus, both chemical and energetic
factors may influence the ability of nerves to transmit pain impulses
to the brain.

Through the acupuncture meridian network, ch'i energies are
transformed into DC-current changes, which are then slowly transmitted
along perineural pathways throughout the glial network. At the level
of the brain, these changes in DC potentials are also associated with
neurochemical mechanisms (i.e. endorphin release) that may precede or
coincide with the action -potential changes in individual neurons. The
neurochemical release of endorphins, which are known to be widely
active throughout the body, suggest s a multitude of possible hormonal
effects of acupuncture on the entire body, beyond simple changes in
neuronal firing rates. Pituitary hormones, such as endorphins and
similar peptides, are normally distributed throughOut the body via the
route of the bloodstream. From there, these potent hormones have their
effect on multiple cellular systems.

Thus endorphins are not an endpoint, but are instead intermediate
actors in this complex energetic system of the body. They provide one
step which can be monitored with conventional drug assays, just as the
firing rate of spinal cord neurons may be empirically studied with
microelectrodes to measure the indirect effects of acupuncture
stimulation. The neurochemical and electrical changes which occur in
the nervous system are secondary effects and not primary events. They
are an objective confirmation of an Unseen energetic process taking
place, but they are not the final answer to explaining acupuncture's
effects. Acupuncture is mediated by a primary, subtle energetic system
that influences the network of physical nerves. In addition, to
acupuncture's influence on nerves, it has multiple therapeutic effects
on other cellular components of physiology which are less easily
measured by present medical technologies."

Gregory L. Hansen wrote:
My brother's instructor Rick _____, who teaches mainly JKD, and Filipino
and Indonesian style fighting, has schools in the U.S. and Japan, has
trained Canadian Mounties [snip exhaustive resume], has been searching all
his life for special chi powers and secret techniques. He traveled to the
Phillipines once to find out a secret technique was something like a
high-low-low combination instead of a high-low-high combination -- not
much of a shocker there. He's met a lot of people that claimed to know
the mystical death touch, although they haven't killed anyone with it.
And he's met a lot of people that have claimed chi powers, but it didn't
help them do a pullup, didn't put anything special behind a punch that
body mechanics doesn't put into it, etc. He hasn't given up on it yet.


The death touch exists and is real. The blood pressure acupuncture point
near the temple in well known as a knockout point - striking that point
causes a persons blood pressure to go hay wire and they pass out. Strike
that point hard enough and a person dies. There are other similar points
throughout the whole body. This is the art of Dim Mac. However internal
martial artists practice what they call internal strikes (sometimes called
Far Jing - Bruce Lee's one inch punch was a Far Jing technique). This is a
special type of hitting that takes a long time to develop - but basically it
causes something like a shock wave to travel through the body. When
pressure points are hit by these types of strikes the effects can be delayed
so that you can for example strike a blow at the temple and not cause a
problem immediately - but internal damage is done and the person will have
effects (even death) sometime later.

Thanks
Bill

Bill Hobba wrote:
: It is now well known, for example,
: (and the person who discovered this received a Nobel Prize),


Richard Schultz wrote
Does this person have a name?

I think it was the psychiatrist Eric Kandel who jointly won the 2000 Nobel
Prize in Medicine. However this was explained to me by a psychiatrist I
see for depression associated with psoriatic arthritis so do not take that
name as gospel.

Bill Hobba wrote:
: that acupuncture works by blocking and opening gates in the body.


Richard Schultz wrote
What is actually now well known about acupuncture is that it does not
work.

No, what is known is that the results are variable and quirky. One simply
has to view acupuncture anesthesia to know something is going on. However
this procedure is done infrequently even in China because it only works some
of the time. It is reserved for cases that cant take normal anesthetics for
some reason. As my acupuncturist told me it is a wonderful procedure when
it works - but when a patient wakes up during the operation - it is a mess.

Before undertaking acupuncture for psoriatic arthritis I did not have any
faith in it and I spoke to 3 MD's including the psychiatrist mentioned
above. All confirmed that there was increasing evidence of it benefits -
and from my own experience and others who see my acupuncturist I can say for
sure something is going on. My acupuncturist was trained at Shanghai
medical university and still gets their journal which contains results of
research work combing acupuncture with western medicine There was for
example statistical improvement in survival rates of various operations such
as bypass surgery. However I freely admit that acupuncture is so ingrained
in Chinese culture all we may be seeing are placebo effects since it would
be impossible to do double blind studies - you either got acupuncture or you
didn't.

Thanks
Bill