"Danny McCarty" wrote in message ...
Subject: Silly Little Oblivious Pion
From: "kenseto"
Date: 8/31/2003 8:43 AM Central Standard Time
Message-id:


"Ron Aikas" wrote in message
. com...
"kenseto" wrote in message
...
"Ron Aikas" wrote in message
om...

How do you get the value of c before you
have synchronized the clocks?

From Maxwell's equation and from TWLS measurements.

Ken Seto

No, no, no, Mr. Seto, I thought that you were talking
about the one-way, two-clock light speed - a value that
_cannot_ be gleaned from any no-clock (Maxwell) or
one-clock (TWLS) experiment.

He assumed that one-way light speed is the same as that in Maxwell's
equation and in TWLS measurements. His e-synch procedure is used to test his
assumption.

FYI, Maxwell did not use any clocks to measure light's
speed. Thus, he certainly did not use two clocks. His
value c is therefore coordinate-system-independent; i.e.,
it has absolutely nothing to do with measurements made
by using two clocks and a ruler to time the one-way
speed of light.

Maxwell certainly did used clocks to determine the speed of light. Look up
the units for permeability and for permitivity.


Look at it like this: If Maxwell had tied down the even
the round-trip light speed as c invariantly/isotropically,
then no one would have ever predicted a positive result
for the Michelson-Morley experiment, and yet, as we know,
just the opposite happened, i.e., no one predicted a null
result.

That's because no one realized that the direction of absolute
motion --motion wrt the light rays that were used to measure the ether
drift-- was in the vertical direction wrt to the horizontal light rays. The
null result of the MMX is due to that the MMX apparatus is moving in the
vertical direction wrt the horizontal light rays.

Also FTI, not even the Michelson-Morley experiment tied
down round-trip invariance; it took the Kennedy-Thorndike
experiment to do that.

The same with the KTX experiment. The direction of absolute motion of the
KTX apparatus was in the vertical direction wrt the horizontal light rays
and thus the null result.

So by some great coincidence, we are moving through the aether on a line
perpendicular to the plane of the Earth's orbit? Unbelievable.

Not for Seto:
http://users.pandora.be/vdmoortel/di...s/IsoVert.html
http://users.pandora.be/vdmoortel/di...Vertical2.html
http://users.pandora.be/vdmoortel/di...XVertical.html

Dirk Vdm

"Dirk Van de moortel" skrev i melding
...

"Danny McCarty" wrote in message ...
Subject: Silly Little Oblivious Pion
From: "kenseto"
Date: 8/31/2003 8:43 AM Central Standard Time
Message-id:

The same with the KTX experiment. The direction of absolute motion of the
KTX apparatus was in the vertical direction wrt the horizontal light rays
and thus the null result.

So by some great coincidence, we are moving through the aether on a line
perpendicular to the plane of the Earth's orbit? Unbelievable.

Not for Seto:
http://users.pandora.be/vdmoortel/di...s/IsoVert.html
http://users.pandora.be/vdmoortel/di...Vertical2.html
http://users.pandora.be/vdmoortel/di...XVertical.html

Where Ken Seto writes:
| Why is it so amazing? At every location on the surface of the earth
| it has one direction of absolute motion and that direction is
| vertical.

Exploding Earth again? :-)

Paul

"Paul B. Andersen" wrote in message
...

"Dirk Van de moortel" skrev
i melding
...

"Danny McCarty" wrote in message
...
Subject: Silly Little Oblivious Pion
From: "kenseto"
Date: 8/31/2003 8:43 AM Central Standard Time
Message-id:

The same with the KTX experiment. The direction of absolute motion of
the
KTX apparatus was in the vertical direction wrt the horizontal light
rays
and thus the null result.

So by some great coincidence, we are moving through the aether on
a line
perpendicular to the plane of the Earth's orbit? Unbelievable.

Not for Seto:
http://users.pandora.be/vdmoortel/di...s/IsoVert.html
http://users.pandora.be/vdmoortel/di...Vertical2.html

http://users.pandora.be/vdmoortel/di...XVertical.html

Where Ken Seto writes:
| Why is it so amazing? At every location on the surface of the earth
| it has one direction of absolute motion and that direction is
| vertical.

Exploding Earth again? :-)

Ah...so your inability to comprehend is my exploding earth theory?? I said
that the apparatus is moving vertical wrt the horizontal light rays. So you
need to ask: why is the light rays are always horizontal even as the earth
is rotating? The answer is that we arbituary define that the direction of
the light rays are horizontal at all time.
This is different than your exploding earth theory. The upper atmosphere
muon's point of view is never that the earth is rushing toward it. It can
feel a continuous acceleration toward the earth. When it arrive on earth the
lab muon will have already decayed and therefore it must conclude that the
reason that it is able to reach the earth before decaying is that its state
of absolute motion is higher than the lab muon's state of absolute motion.

Ken Seto

"kenseto" skrev i melding ...

"Paul B. Andersen" wrote in message
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i melding
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"Danny McCarty" wrote in message
...
Subject: Silly Little Oblivious Pion
From: "kenseto"
Date: 8/31/2003 8:43 AM Central Standard Time
Message-id:

The same with the KTX experiment. The direction of absolute motion of
the
KTX apparatus was in the vertical direction wrt the horizontal light
rays
and thus the null result.

So by some great coincidence, we are moving through the aether on
a line
perpendicular to the plane of the Earth's orbit? Unbelievable.

Not for Seto:
http://users.pandora.be/vdmoortel/di...s/IsoVert.html
http://users.pandora.be/vdmoortel/di...Vertical2.html

http://users.pandora.be/vdmoortel/di...XVertical.html

Where Ken Seto writes:
| Why is it so amazing? At every location on the surface of the earth
| it has one direction of absolute motion and that direction is
| vertical.

Exploding Earth again? :-)

Ah...so your inability to comprehend is my exploding earth theory?? I said
that the apparatus is moving vertical wrt the horizontal light rays.

To me, it seemed like you said:
| At every location on the surface of the earth
| it has one direction of absolute motion and that direction is
| vertical.

Booom!

Paul

"Paul B. Andersen" wrote in message
...

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...

"Paul B. Andersen" wrote in message
...

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skrev
i melding
...

"Danny McCarty" wrote in message
...
Subject: Silly Little Oblivious Pion
From: "kenseto"
Date: 8/31/2003 8:43 AM Central Standard Time
Message-id:

The same with the KTX experiment. The direction of absolute
motion of
the
KTX apparatus was in the vertical direction wrt the horizontal
light
rays
and thus the null result.

So by some great coincidence, we are moving through the aether
on
a line
perpendicular to the plane of the Earth's orbit? Unbelievable.

Not for Seto:

http://users.pandora.be/vdmoortel/di...s/IsoVert.html

http://users.pandora.be/vdmoortel/di...Vertical2.html

http://users.pandora.be/vdmoortel/di...XVertical.html

Where Ken Seto writes:
| Why is it so amazing? At every location on the surface of the earth
| it has one direction of absolute motion and that direction is
| vertical.

Exploding Earth again? :-)

Ah...so your inability to comprehend is my exploding earth theory?? I
said
that the apparatus is moving vertical wrt the horizontal light rays.

To me, it seemed like you said:
| At every location on the surface of the earth
| it has one direction of absolute motion and that direction is
| vertical.

That's why I said your inability to comprehend is my exploding earth
theory. You snip out the part that you don't want to comprehend. Here it is
again:
"So you need to ask: why is the light rays are always horizontal even as the
earth is rotating? The answer is that we arbituary define that the direction
of the light rays are horizontal at all time."

So from that we arbituary define the direction of absolute motion as
Vertical wrt the horizontal light rays. Notice again that the light rays are
alway defined as horizontal.

Ken Seto

"Paul B. Andersen" wrote in message
...

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...

"Paul B. Andersen" wrote in message
...

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skrev
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...

"Danny McCarty" wrote in message
...
Subject: Silly Little Oblivious Pion
From: "kenseto"
Date: 8/31/2003 8:43 AM Central Standard Time
Message-id:

The same with the KTX experiment. The direction of absolute
motion of
the
KTX apparatus was in the vertical direction wrt the horizontal
light
rays
and thus the null result.

So by some great coincidence, we are moving through the aether
on
a line
perpendicular to the plane of the Earth's orbit? Unbelievable.

Not for Seto:

http://users.pandora.be/vdmoortel/di...s/IsoVert.html

http://users.pandora.be/vdmoortel/di...Vertical2.html

http://users.pandora.be/vdmoortel/di...XVertical.html

Where Ken Seto writes:
| Why is it so amazing? At every location on the surface of the earth
| it has one direction of absolute motion and that direction is
| vertical.

Exploding Earth again? :-)

Ah...so your inability to comprehend is my exploding earth theory?? I
said
that the apparatus is moving vertical wrt the horizontal light rays.

To me, it seemed like you said:
| At every location on the surface of the earth
| it has one direction of absolute motion and that direction is
| vertical.

Booom!

Ah...but the vertical direction can be up or down. So there is no booom.
This is unlike your exploding earth theory in which you claimed that the
earth is moving fast in different directions, at the same time, to meet the
upper atmospheric muons. :-)

Ken Seto

kenseto wrote:
Ah...but the vertical direction can be up or down. So there is no booom.

anyway, the "vertical direction" is isotropic....

Even stupid Wilson will never achieve such an idiocy.

"Paul B. Andersen" wrote in message
...

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...

"Paul B. Andersen" wrote in message
...

"kenseto" skrev i melding
...

"Paul B. Andersen" wrote in message
...

"Dirk Van de moortel"

skrev
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"Danny McCarty" wrote in message
...
Subject: Silly Little Oblivious Pion
From: "kenseto"
Date: 8/31/2003 8:43 AM Central Standard Time
Message-id:

The same with the KTX experiment. The direction of absolute
motion of
the
KTX apparatus was in the vertical direction wrt the
horizontal
light
rays
and thus the null result.

So by some great coincidence, we are moving through the
aether
on
a line
perpendicular to the plane of the Earth's orbit?
Unbelievable.

Not for Seto:

http://users.pandora.be/vdmoortel/di...s/IsoVert.html

http://users.pandora.be/vdmoortel/di...Vertical2.html


http://users.pandora.be/vdmoortel/di...XVertical.html

Where Ken Seto writes:
| Why is it so amazing? At every location on the surface of the
earth
| it has one direction of absolute motion and that direction is
| vertical.

Exploding Earth again? :-)

Ah...so your inability to comprehend is my exploding earth theory??
I said
that the apparatus is moving vertical wrt the horizontal light rays.

To me, it seemed like you said:
| At every location on the surface of the earth
| it has one direction of absolute motion and that direction is
| vertical.

That's why I said your inability to comprehend is my exploding earth
theory. You snip out the part that you don't want to comprehend. Here it
is
again:
"So you need to ask: why is the light rays are always horizontal even as
the
earth is rotating? The answer is that we arbituary define that the
direction
of the light rays are horizontal at all time."

So from that we arbituary define the direction of absolute motion as
Vertical wrt the horizontal light rays. Notice again that the light rays
are
alway defined as horizontal.

AH! I don't see it now!

When Ken Seto writes:
| At every location on the surface of the earth
| it has one direction of absolute motion and that direction is
| vertical.

This statement is correct. The reason you think that it is a problem is
because you think that vertical direction is UP only. The vertical
direcxtion can be DOWN too Paul.

it doesn't mean:
| At every location on the surface of the earth
| it has one direction of absolute motion and that direction is
| vertical.

Yes it does mean that at every location on the earth surface is moving in
the vertical direction UP or DOWN.

but:
| At every location on the surface of the earth
| it has one direction of absolute motion and that direction is
| vertical wrt the horizontal light rays in the MMX.
| Notice that the light rays are alway defined as horizontal.

and as everybody without my inability to comprehend can see,
that is an entirely different statement.

Yes Paul....your inability to comprehend shows again.

Since the horizontal light rays in the MMX are arbitrarily _defined_ to
be horizontal, then vertical wrs to the horizontal light rays in the MMX
isn't necessarily vertical, but ..... hmm ... I think I lost it ... but
the rotation of the Earth should be in there somewhere ...

Due to my inability to comprehend I don't comprehend this, though.
So I still hear:

Boooom!

No booom. The vertical direction can be UP or DOWN.

Paul, deafened

Must be hearing you own exploding earth theory :-)

Ken Seto

"kenseto" skrev i melding ...

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"Paul B. Andersen" wrote in message
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"Dirk Van de moortel"

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"Danny McCarty" wrote in message
...
Subject: Silly Little Oblivious Pion
From: "kenseto"
Date: 8/31/2003 8:43 AM Central Standard Time
Message-id:

The same with the KTX experiment. The direction of absolute
motion of
the
KTX apparatus was in the vertical direction wrt the
horizontal
light
rays
and thus the null result.

So by some great coincidence, we are moving through the
aether
on
a line
perpendicular to the plane of the Earth's orbit?
Unbelievable.

Not for Seto:

http://users.pandora.be/vdmoortel/di...s/IsoVert.html

http://users.pandora.be/vdmoortel/di...Vertical2.html


http://users.pandora.be/vdmoortel/di...XVertical.html

Where Ken Seto writes:
| Why is it so amazing? At every location on the surface of the
earth
| it has one direction of absolute motion and that direction is
| vertical.

Exploding Earth again? :-)

Ah...so your inability to comprehend is my exploding earth theory??
I said
that the apparatus is moving vertical wrt the horizontal light rays.

To me, it seemed like you said:
| At every location on the surface of the earth
| it has one direction of absolute motion and that direction is
| vertical.

That's why I said your inability to comprehend is my exploding earth
theory. You snip out the part that you don't want to comprehend. Here it
is
again:
"So you need to ask: why is the light rays are always horizontal even as
the
earth is rotating? The answer is that we arbituary define that the
direction
of the light rays are horizontal at all time."

So from that we arbituary define the direction of absolute motion as
Vertical wrt the horizontal light rays. Notice again that the light rays
are
alway defined as horizontal.

AH! I don't see it now!

When Ken Seto writes:
| At every location on the surface of the earth
| it has one direction of absolute motion and that direction is
| vertical.

This statement is correct. The reason you think that it is a problem is
because you think that vertical direction is UP only. The vertical
direcxtion can be DOWN too Paul.

I see.
So the Earth is not exploding, it is crushed.

So are supernovae.

Boooom!

Paul

"Paul B. Andersen" wrote in message
...

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...

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...

"Paul B. Andersen" wrote in message
...

"kenseto" skrev i melding
...

"Paul B. Andersen" wrote in message
...

"Dirk Van de moortel"

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"Danny McCarty" wrote in message
...
Subject: Silly Little Oblivious Pion
From: "kenseto"
Date: 8/31/2003 8:43 AM Central Standard Time
Message-id:

The same with the KTX experiment. The direction of
absolute
motion of
the
KTX apparatus was in the vertical direction wrt the
horizontal
light
rays
and thus the null result.

So by some great coincidence, we are moving through
the
aether
on
a line
perpendicular to the plane of the Earth's orbit?
Unbelievable.

Not for Seto:

http://users.pandora.be/vdmoortel/di...s/IsoVert.html


http://users.pandora.be/vdmoortel/di...Vertical2.html


http://users.pandora.be/vdmoortel/di...XVertical.html

Where Ken Seto writes:
| Why is it so amazing? At every location on the surface of
the
earth
| it has one direction of absolute motion and that direction
is
| vertical.

Exploding Earth again? :-)

Ah...so your inability to comprehend is my exploding earth
theory??
I said
that the apparatus is moving vertical wrt the horizontal light
rays.

To me, it seemed like you said:
| At every location on the surface of the earth
| it has one direction of absolute motion and that direction is
| vertical.

That's why I said your inability to comprehend is my exploding earth
theory. You snip out the part that you don't want to comprehend.
Here it
is
again:
"So you need to ask: why is the light rays are always horizontal
even as
the
earth is rotating? The answer is that we arbituary define that the
direction
of the light rays are horizontal at all time."

So from that we arbituary define the direction of absolute motion as
Vertical wrt the horizontal light rays. Notice again that the light
rays
are
alway defined as horizontal.

AH! I don't see it now!

When Ken Seto writes:
| At every location on the surface of the earth
| it has one direction of absolute motion and that direction is
| vertical.

This statement is correct. The reason you think that it is a problem is
because you think that vertical direction is UP only. The vertical
direcxtion can be DOWN too Paul.

I see.
So the Earth is not exploding, it is crushed.

No...you don't see. One side of the earth is UP vertically then the other
side of the earth is DOWN vertically.

So are supernovae.

No supernovae. Psrhaps you brain is going supernova. :-)

Boooom!

No Booom.

Ken Seto