Please, excuse me, I repost this message the third time with abridged
edition.

================================================== ================
Subject: The Two Weak Links .
Date: 1 Jul 2003 02:11:54 -0700
From: (Aleksandr Timofeev)
Newsgroups: sci.physics.fusion,sci.physics,sci.astro,sci.physi cs.relativity

Craig Markwardt wrote in message
...
(Aleksandr Timofeev) writes:


[ Let's snip on some time ;^) - Please, excuse me, I repost this
message again with abridged edition, since my messages to this
thread ' The Two Weak Links ' has vanished from the GOOGLE's
archive ]

Your values are not the most reliable determinations of the masses in
the solar system. [ ref. A ]

" The more reliable values " a
http://ssd.jpl.nasa.gov/astro_constants.html

Very well, it is possible to use those quoted values. Also those on
page (http://horizons.jpl.nasa.gov/phys_props_planets.html). The
original values I cited were from the JPL DE405 planetary ephemeris.

[ Revised by CM ] Table I
Planetary masses and Ratios of linear combinations of masses

Planet Symbol Mass | Ratio DE405 Astro- Phys.
used for value | considered value Const. Prop
each planet Earth=1 | of the ratio (pg.1) (pg.2)
. |
Jupiter MJU or 1 317.894 |(MJU+MSA)/(MUR+MNE) = 13.036 13.036 13.035
Saturn MSA or 2 95.185 | MJU/(MUR+MNE) = 10.032 10.032 10.032
Neptune MNE or 3 17.151 | MSA/(MUR+MNE) = 3.0038 3.0038 3.0036
Uranus MUR or 4 14.537 | (MJU+MSA)/MNE = 24.084 24.084 24.085
Earth MTE or 5 1.000 | MUR/(MTE+MVE) = 8.0095 8.0095 8.0088
Venus MVE or 6 0.8150| (MNE+MUR)/MVE = 38.882 38.882 38.875
Mars MMA or 7 0.1074| (MTE+MVE)/MME = 32.837 32.837 32.835
Mercury MME or 8 0.05527 MVE/(MMA+MME) = 5.0086 5.0086 5.0085
Table Notes.
Pg. 1. http://ssd.jpl.nasa.gov/astro_constants.html
Yoder, C.F. 1995. in Global Earth Physics, A Handbook of Physical Constants,
AGU Reference Shelf 1, American Geophysical Union, Tables 6,7,10.
Pg. 2. http://horizons.jpl.nasa.gov/phys_props_planets.html
Standish, E.M. (1995) in Highlights of Astronomy (I. Appenzeller, ed.),
Table 1, Kluwer Academic Publishers, Dordrecht.

In other words, my original quoted mass ratios are consistent with the
ratios of the two other sources mentioned, and inconsistent with your
own. And -- of course -- I accounted for the earth-moon mass issue.

Due to your perseverance and carefulness, I have found a logic error
in my evaluations of the ratioes of quantities of masses of planets.

We always should use the total of quantity of a planetary mass
and its satellites at evaluation of the ratioes of the given type.

Thanks you very much Craig Markwardt.

Thus instead of MTE we should use (MTE + MMO).

Thus instead (MTE+MVE)/MME we should use ((MTE + MMO)+ MVE)/MME.
Thus instead MUR/(MTE+MVE)we should use MUR/((MTE + MMO)+ MVE).

Thus for data from http://ssd.jpl.nasa.gov/astro_constants.html :

((MTE + MMO)+ MVE)/MME = 33.05914911086644

and MUR/((MTE + MMO)+ MVE) = 7.955591050769415

In remaining cases this requirement is executed automatically:
" The more reliable values " a
http://ssd.jpl.nasa.gov/astro_constants.html

Mass: Sun / Mercury 6023600. (± 250.)
Mass: Sun / Venus 408523.71 (± 0.06)
Mass: Sun / (Earth+Moon) 328900.56 (± 0.02)
Mass: Sun / (Mars system) 3098708. (± 9.)
Mass: Sun / (Jupiter system) 1047.3486 (± 0.0008)
Mass: Sun / (Saturn system) 3497.898 (± 0.018)
Mass: Sun / (Uranus system 22902.98 (± 0.03)
Mass: Sun / (Neptune sym) 19412.24 (± 0.04)
Mass: Sun / (Pluto system) 1.35 (± 0.07) x 108
Mass: Moon / Earth 0.012300034 (± 3 x 10-9)

***** BASIC PROGRAM **********************************************
OPEN "c:\qb_4_5\qb\temp.bas" FOR OUTPUT AS #1

CLS
PRINT "(Mte# + Mve#) / Mme#
http://horizons.jpl.nasa.gov/phys_props_planets.html"
Mte# = 59.736
Mve# = 48.685
Mme# = 3.302


PRINT (Mte# + Mve#) / Mme# ' 32.83494849523365
PRINT #1, (Mte# + Mve#) / Mme#

PRINT "(MteRatSun# + MveRatSun#) / MmeRatSun#
http://ssd.jpl.nasa.gov/astro_constants.html"

MteSysRatSun# = 1 / 328900.56#
MteRatSun# = 1 / (328900.56# * (1 + .012300034#))
MveRatSun# = 1 / 408523.71#
MmeRatSun# = 1 / 6023600!
MurRatSun# = 1 / 22902.98

PRINT (MteSysRatSun# + MveRatSun#) / MmeRatSun# '33.05914911086644
PRINT (MteRatSun# + MveRatSun#) / MmeRatSun# '32.83661910868818

PRINT MurRatSun# / (MteSysRatSun# + MveRatSun#) '7.955591050769415
PRINT MurRatSun# / (MteRatSun# + MveRatSun#) '8.009505179017433

PRINT #1, (MteSysRatSun# + MveRatSun#) / MmeRatSun#'33.05914911086644
PRINT #1, (MteRatSun# + MveRatSun#) / MmeRatSun#

PRINT #1, MurRatSun# / (MteSysRatSun# + MveRatSun#)
PRINT #1, MurRatSun# / (MteRatSun# + MveRatSun#)

' Sun / (Earth+Moon) = 328900.56
' Moon / Earth = 0.012300034

' Sun / (Earth *(1+Moon/Earth)) = 328900.56
' Sun / (Earth *(1+0.012300034)) = 328900.56
' Sun / Earth = 328900.56*(1+0.012300034)
' Earth / Sun = 1 / (328900.56*(1+0.012300034))

CLOSE #1

***** BASIC PROGRAM **********************************************



[ text has been reordered ]
Magic Ratios of Singular class
linear combinations of planetary system masses


Planet Symbol | Ratio Exact Ratio
Rounded
system each planet | considered value uncertainty ratio
system | of the ratio estimate
|
Jupiter MJU or 1 |(MJU+MSA)/(MUR+MNE) = 13.03557 4.55D-05 13
Saturn MSA or 2 | MJU/(MUR+MNE) = 10.03182 2.49D-05 10
Neptune MNE or 3 | MSA/(MUR+MNE) = 3.00375 2.06D-05 3
Uranus MUR or 4 | (MJU+MSA)/MNE = 24.08434 9.23D-05 24
Earth MTE or 5 | MUR/(MTE+MVE) = 7.95559 1.12D-05 8

Earth MTE or 5 |MUR/((MTE+MMO)+MVE) = 7.95559 1.12D-05 8
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Venus MVE or 6 | (MNE+MUR)/MVE = 38.88179 7.24D-05 39
Mars MMA or 7 | (MTE+MVE)/MME = 33.059 1.38D-03 33

Mars MMA or 7 |((MTE+MMO)+MVE)/MME = 33.059 1.38D-03 33
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Mercury MME or 8 | MVE/(MMA+MME) = 5.00858 8.10D-05 5


================================================== ===============

So below:

MTE = (Earth system) or (MTE+MMO)

http://groups.google.com/groups?selm...g .google.com


Planetary system masses

Ratio Ratio Mass Ratio
considered Sun / (planet system) uncertainty

Sun / (Jupiter system) 1047.3486 ± 0.0008
Sun / (Saturn system) 3497.898 ± 0.018
Sun / (Neptune system) 19412.24 ± 0.04
Sun / (Uranus system) 22902.98 ± 0.03
Sun / (Earth system) 328900.56 ± 0.02
Sun / Venus 408523.71 ± 0.06
Sun / (Mars system) 3098708. ± 9.
Sun / Mercury 6023600. ± 250.
Sun / (Pluto system) 1.35D+8 ± 0.07D+8

Here value G = 6.67259 (± 0.00030) x 10-11 kg-1 m3 s-2 is used
in latent form for evaluation of values of masses.
In the theories of the heavenly mechanics there is no method of
division "constant" G and gravitational mass.

Reference:
http://ssd.jpl.nasa.gov/astro_constants.html


Magic Ratios of Singular class
linear combinations of planetary system masses


Planet Symbol | Ratio Exact Ratio
Rounded
system each planet | considered value uncertainty ratio
system | of the ratio estimate
|
Jupiter MJU or 1 |(MJU+MSA)/(MUR+MNE) = 13.03557 4.55D-05 13
Saturn MSA or 2 | MJU/(MUR+MNE) = 10.03182 2.49D-05 10
Neptune MNE or 3 | MSA/(MUR+MNE) = 3.00375 2.06D-05 3
Uranus MUR or 4 | (MJU+MSA)/MNE = 24.08434 9.23D-05 24
Earth MTE or 5 | MUR/(MTE+MVE) = 7.95559 1.12D-05 8
or
Earth MTE or 5 |MUR/((MTE+MMO)+MVE) = 7.95559 1.12D-05 8
Venus MVE or 6 | (MNE+MUR)/MVE = 38.88179 7.24D-05 39
Mars MMA or 7 | (MTE+MVE)/MME = 33.059 1.38D-03 33
or
Mars MMA or 7 |((MTE+MMO)+MVE)/MME = 33.059 1.38D-03 33

Mercury MME or 8 | MVE/(MMA+MME) = 5.00858 8.10D-05 5

Conclusion:

The explicit and implicit symmetries of the Solar system are
a corollary of a phenomenon of quantization of a gravitational charge.

************************************************** *******************
These empirical relations have not physical interpretation within the
framework of any modern theory of gravitation.
************************************************** *******************

Chiral symmetry of ratios

When organised graphically, the ratios of linear combinations of
the planetary masses considered, reveal a chain of gravitational
correlations between triples of planets possessing chiral symmetry:

10
I-----------|
I 13 |
I==============I
I | I
? 39 I | I
|-----------------I 33 |----------------I 24 | I
| |------------------I |-----------------I
| | I ? | | I 5 | | I 8 | | I 3 | | I
| | I====| | I====| | I====| | I====| | I
| | I | | I | | I | | I | | I
10 9 I 8 7 I 6 5 I 4 3 I 2 1 I
I | | I | | I | | I | | I
I Mercury MarsI Venus EarthI Uran NepI Saturn JupiterI
I I I I I
10+9 8+7 6+5 4+3 2+1
ln(mass)
- - --------------------------------------------------------------

The following symbols here are used in this graphic:

MSA + MJU - 2 + 1; MUR + MNE - 4 + 3;
MVE + MTE - 6 + 5; MME + MMA - 8 + 7;
MJU - 1; MSA - 2; MNE - 3; MUR - 4;
MTE - 5; MVE - 6; MMA - 7; MME - 8;

5
Direct gravitational correlation - ====;
33
Reverse gravitational correlation - ----------

Conclusion:

The explicit and implicit symmetries of the Solar system are
a corollary of a phenomenon of quantization of a gravitational charge.

Illogical conclusion. The uncertainty estimates you quote demonstrate
that the computed ratios are significantly different from a whole
number.

Illogical conclusion.

The uncertainty estimates which one I have computed there is
" a pure delirium ".
These estimates are interior precision of the concrete
CELESTIAL MECHANICAL THEORY and ITS LATENT SUPPOSITIONS.

Please make the answer to a problem:
" Why the different CELESTIAL MECHANICAL THEORIES have
different so-called
' SYSTEMS of Astrodynamic FUNDAMENTAL CONSTANTS and Parameters '? "
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Similar to :
http://ssd.jpl.nasa.gov/astro_constants.html

Astrodynamic Constants and Parameters


Thus, your "rounding" to a whole number is without
justification.

************************************************** ***********
Thus, my "rounding" to a whole number is the indicating
on latent errors in the modern CELESTIAL MECHANICAL THEORIES.
************************************************** ***********

[ Let's snip on some time part of message below ;^) -
Please, excuse me, I do abridged edition of this message ]