On Wed, 07 May 2008 18:36:57 -0700, none ""doug\"@(none)"
wrote:

George Hammond wrote:
On Wed, 07 May 2008 08:16:34 -0700, none ""doug\"@(none)"
wrote:

George Hammond wrote:
On Mon, 05 May 2008 19:56:00 -0700, none ""doug\"@(none)"
wrote:

Sheesh Mark.So he isnt saying a real God exists, just that our lack of
growth makes us think there is one and creates the false illusion?



[Hammond]
WRONG..... there IS NO ILLUSION.....!!!!
Our lack of growth creates a REAL GOD, the actual God of the
Bible. It has nothing to do with "thinking"it has to do
with actual "SEEING".

[Doug, dubious physics PhD claimant. SPOG heckler]
So man created god through his ignorance?

[Hammond]
Quit flaunting your asinine stupidity! The Secular Trend
Growth Deficit has nothing to do with ignorance. The
Secular Trend is caused by the entire history of the
Standard of Living, mainly neutrition for the past 200,000
years.

[Doug, bogus physicist and SPOG heckler]
2 million years for our direct ancestors, one billion for
our further ancestors.


[Hammond]
You're full of ****, the figure of 200,000 years is
universally accepted as he age of Homo Sapiens sapiens, our
species.


It's BIOLOGICAL ****head! In the 3rd world in areas
of chronic historic starvation the gowth deficit is near 50%
in some places; 3 year olds the size of infants! Wise up or
get off this thread, phony PhD.
Is "gowth" deficit the same as growth deficit?



[Doug, dubious physics PhD claimant. SPOG heckler]
That kind of insultsthe christian god doesn't it? Why
would it be the christian god and not Odin or Zeus or
Baal or some other god? You see now the leaps of
faith you are using to get to your desiredconclusion.



[Hammond]
Get the f--- outta here ignoramus! Zeus, Baal, Odin are
all 2nd order eigenvectors of the Structural Model in
Psychometry which is UNIVERSAL, the Christian "God" is a
SINGLE 4th Order eigenvector.


[Doug, bogus physicist and SPOG heckler]
In the christian religion, your opinion might be true but
the other religions of the world would dispute that. You
are assuming that the christian god is the real one and
there is certainly no support for that assumption.


[Hammond]
Heckling LIAR, I never said any such thing. All of the
major faiths worchip a supreme deity. The SPOG proves that
this deity is one and the same since it is SCIENTIFICALLY
measured and theoretically explained. the "God" of EVERY
religion is thus proved to be REAL.
Get off this thread heckler.


You don't know what your
talking about, you sound like an ignorant high school
dropout not a scientist!


[Doug, alleged PhD physicist, SPOG skeptic]
So this means that the christians have slower reflexes than
the hindus and buddhists?


[Hammond]
WRONG.... obviously..... Unicef, WHOI and academic
research has well documented the fact that the SECULAR TREND
GROWTH DEFICIT is much larger in Third World countries than
it is in the Chrisitian West....


[Doug, dubious physics PhD claimant. SPOG heckler]
This is an astonishingly biased statement rooted solely in
your prejudiced world view. So if a third world person becomes
a christian, they automatically become smarter? Or is coming
to our country sufficient to become smarter or are people who
are born here but not christians not as smart as native born
christians?



[Hammond]
Quit spouting high school dropout ignorance, phony PhD!
The smaller Brain Growth Deficit in the West is due to the
HIGHER STANDARD OF LIVING in the West compared to the 3rd
World, any idiot knows that. You're a racist pig and a
bigot, phony PhD claimant, and an asinine provocateur. And
a ****head.
So the japanese are automatically all now malnourished?
You are the ones making racist claims.

[Hammond]
. which literally means that
"God, Heaven and the invisible world" are LARGER in the 3rd
World than they are in the Christian West.

[Doug, dubious physics PhD claimant. SPOG heckler]
Among other things, this statement, by itself, disproves
your spog speculation.


[Hammond]
Get out of here you mentally challenged moron. Even
remote illiterate Mongolian tribesman are aware of this
scientific fact and testify so when they sophisticatedly
query unsuspecting Western academic field researchers as to
"Whether the Moon is large in the united States than it is
in Mongolia"; which is a metaphor far over your puny
pinheaded inetllectual awareness.


[Doug, bogus physicist and SPOG heckler]
It is humorous to watch you squirm when you cannot prove
what you say. You start swearing more and getting more
irrational. You should just take a deep breath and admit
you are wrong.


[Hammond]
Don't make me laugh you pathetic piece of snivelling scum.
I enjoy kicking your ass and could do it all day. You're
particularly enjoyable because you're so wannabee vicious.
Go jump off a bridge fascist psychotic piece of scum. You're
worthless. You haven't got a decent bone in your body.
Screw.
=====================================
SCIENTIFIC PROOF OF GOD WEBSITE
http://geocities.com/scientific_proof_of_god
mirror site:
http://proof-of-god.freewebsitehosting.com
GOD=G_uv (a folk song on mp3)
http://interrobang.jwgh.org/songs/hammond.mp3
=====================================

On Wed, 7 May 2008 13:33:52 -0700 (PDT), "
wrote:

On May 7, 12:21 am, George Hammond wrote:
On Tue, 6 May 2008 23:26:30 -0700 (PDT), "Dr. HotSalt"

(bandwidth-conservation snip)

[Hammond]
Mark,...... whew..... I'm glad to find out that "Dr.
Hotsalt" is actually you!

[ Mark L. Fergerson]
Sorry about that. I have two nyms; my real name and the good (most
of the time) Dr., who is intended only to post in ARK. For some reason
my browser (the latest Firefox) does not permit me to choose when
crossposting and instead decides at random which nym to use. There's
probably a plugin to handle it but I haven't found one yet.


[Hammond]
I rely on several newsreaders. I won't mention which, as
you know I have scores of stalkers, hecklers and psycho's
following me around so I don't mention personal information
any longer. this thread for instance is at the top of the
Google charts and is fast approaching 600 posts.

[ Mark L. Fergerson]
I read through the first few paragraphs of
your post and thought I was listening to an all time record
breaking genius, whom I thought must be some internationally
known polymath posting under a phony name and was absolutely
floored by the guy's understanding of the SPOG.
Frankly, from what I remember of talking to you back in
2000, I didn't recall that you had so much of a handle on
the SPOG... but I guess we're all 8 years older and wiser
now!

That's because I didn't even though according to some I do qualify
as both genius and polymath. Can't get it all in one gulp you know.


[Hammond]
I like your sense of humor.


[ Mark L. Fergerson]
Even though Google's absorption of DejaNews caused much of the
newsgroup archives from The Old Days to evaporate I can trace much of
how my understanding of a lot of subjects has changed in that time.

(One of my mind's quirks is I think tied into my ADD/ADHD/borderline
Asperger's Syndrome. It will back-burner things I find interesting and
make connections for me; my conscious attention will refocus on a
subject after a while and all these connections will flood in at once,
making it appear as if I'd consciously made them all at once. Not the
case of course. OTOH I don't get to concentrate on any one thing for
very long.


[Hammond]
Your analysis and comprehension of the SPOG is brilliant.
Unasurpassed I would even say. Your disability doesn't seem
too serious, I for instance have severe diabetes and have to
take half a dozen shots of insulin a day... it's all I can
do to rided my bike 5 mies a day to stay in shape. A
disabilty can be a key to great achievement you know, look
at FDR or Stephen Hawking for instance. I think your
contribution to the advancement of the SPOG has been
outstanding, I hope you take a further interest in it. You
could very well contribute to a historic scientific
achievement.


[ Mark L. Fergerson]
It's also why I seem to come up with so many of what you've
called "trivial" extensions and applications of the SPOG into
psychology and so on; they are to me obvious practical applications
far superior to the current state of stone-knives-and-bearskins
clinical psychology-


[Hammond]
there is no doubt whatsoever that the SPOG will transform
Psychology... probably in the direction of Virtual Reality
therapy. Showing is better than telling as any one will
tell you.... so eventually, the SPOG will be used to model
Virtual Reality environments in which you will be shown,
rather than told, what your new reality objectives in
therapy are.
All that of course is secondary to the principle
application of the SPOG which is to engender world peace by
modernizing and empowering world religion.


for instance I'm right now wondering how the SPOG
models my quirks- how do you feel about tachyons?)


[Hammond]
Frankly I have little interest in "woo woo physics", I'm
more impressed with the realistic goal of altering world
society.


[ Mark L. Fergerson]
Unfortunately you didn't post until 2:30 in the morning
and it's now after 3 am. So, I'm going to print out your
post and will study it tomorrow morning over breakfast at
the local town coffee shop. It is a long and penetrating
post and I want to study it thoroughly, and will post a full
reply tomorrow afternoon.

Please do. I am hopeful that it will help advance the general
acceptance of the SPOG.

[Hammond]
I've posted tonight a lengthy and detailed reply to your
post. I hope to hear more from you. given your
understanding of the SPOG, you're a pretty important guy
actually.


BTW I'm on the West Coast and posted my time 11:20 p.m. just before
going to work.

Meanwhile, thank Christ for people like you who can still
think on their feet and who have the savvy to notice a
discussion like this and know what it is about.
Thanks for making my day.

Quite welcome. Hope it helps.


Mark L. Fergerson
=====================================
SCIENTIFIC PROOF OF GOD WEBSITE
http://geocities.com/scientific_proof_of_god
mirror site:
http://proof-of-god.freewebsitehosting.com
GOD=G_uv (a folk song on mp3)
http://interrobang.jwgh.org/songs/hammond.mp3
=====================================

George Hammond wrote:

On Mon, 05 May 2008 21:21:07 -0700, "Paul Hovnanian P.E."
wrote:

George Hammond wrote:

[snip]

1) The "existence", of anything, depends entirely on the
sensory perception of Man. There IS NO definition
of the word "existence" that is independent of the
action of a HUMAN observer.


[Paul Hovnanian P.E.]
That's an idea that a child ceases to believe at around 1 year of age.


[Hammond]
unsupported assertion, irrelevant.

[Paul Hovnanian P.E.]
After that age, they seem to be able to comprehend the idea that objects
persist even when they leave their field of view.


[Hammond]
We're NOT talking about THAT dummy..... we're concerned
here about what would happen is ALL PEOPLE WERE DEAD, and
we are concerned about what happened when ALL PEOPLE
SUDDENLY APPEARED 200,000 YEARS AGO.
Get real, pay attention, wake up.
If all people ceased to exist, reality would cease to exist
with them, since reality, BY DEFINITON, does not exist
without MAN to observe it into "reality".

Prove that man exists. Without relying on the need for man to observe
himself, as that would be circular logic.


--
Paul Hovnanian
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Procrastinators: The leaders for tomorrow.

On Thu, 08 May 2008 10:46:13 -0700, "Paul Hovnanian P.E."
wrote:

George Hammond wrote:

On Mon, 05 May 2008 21:21:07 -0700, "Paul Hovnanian P.E."
wrote:

George Hammond wrote:

[snip]

1) The "existence", of anything, depends entirely on the
sensory perception of Man. There IS NO definition
of the word "existence" that is independent of the
action of a HUMAN observer.


[Paul Hovnanian P.E.]
That's an idea that a child ceases to believe at around 1 year of age.


[Hammond]
unsupported assertion, irrelevant.

[Paul Hovnanian P.E.]
After that age, they seem to be able to comprehend the idea that objects
persist even when they leave their field of view.


[Hammond]
We're NOT talking about THAT dummy..... we're concerned
here about what would happen is ALL PEOPLE WERE DEAD, and
we are concerned about what happened when ALL PEOPLE
SUDDENLY APPEARED 200,000 YEARS AGO.
Get real, pay attention, wake up.
If all people ceased to exist, reality would cease to exist
with them, since reality, BY DEFINITON, does not exist
without MAN to observe it into "reality".

[Paul Hovnanian P.E]
Prove that man exists. Without relying on the need for man to observe
himself, as that would be circular logic.


[Hammond]
It can't be done, that is EXACTLY MY POINT.
Thanks for making my day.

=====================================
SCIENTIFIC PROOF OF GOD WEBSITE
http://geocities.com/scientific_proof_of_god
mirror site:
http://proof-of-god.freewebsitehosting.com
GOD=G_uv (a folk song on mp3)
http://interrobang.jwgh.org/songs/hammond.mp3
=====================================

"George Hammond" wrote in message
news
On Thu, 08 May 2008 02:09:57 GMT, George Hammond
wrote:

On Tue, 6 May 2008 23:26:30 -0700 (PDT), "Dr. HotSalt"
wrote:

On May 5, 4:40 pm, "Varekem" wrote:

(brevity snip)

[Varekem]
Sheesh Mark.So he isnt saying a real God exists, just that our lack of
growth makes us think there is one and creates the false illusion?

[Mark L. Fergerson]
No. I am saying that what he says is _partly_ correct, that humans
are capable only of observing that which we are capable of observing.
That would be a simple tautology except for the BGD (Brain Growth
Deficit)* issue; different humans are capable of observing different
amounts of reality due to their state of development in terms of how
accurately their DNA had the opportunity to be expressed as they grew
to adulthood, limited by in-utero and later nutrition and so on.


[Hammond]
YES, this a very commanding synopsis of the SPOG except
for the world "tautology" which has now been superseded in
this context by the term "Anthropic Principle" in modern
Physics, sort of the physics equivalent of WYSIWYG. Anyway,
congratulations, you're probably the only one on Usenet who
knows what the SPOG is about. Not an enviable position if
my experience is any example.


[Mark L. Fergerson]
I am saying that he is partly _incorrect_ not in that the above is
false (for it is obviously not) but in so far failing to analyze the
meaning of "perception" to see that it breaks finally down to physical
photon-driven interactions between fundamental particles.

George built the SPOG on a correspondence between the BGD and
Relativity* in that a fully developed human would "see" a "flat
psychometric* universe" such that nothing would be hidden beyond its
curvature analogous to how we cannot see into the past beyond a
certain point no matter how good a telescope we use; the Universe
simply is so big that some things are too far away for their light to
ever get here.



[Hammond]
Again congratulations in identifying "psychometric
curvature" (aka curvature of subjective spacetime) as the
cause of the "invisible world" (aka Heaven). The similarity
to an "event horizon" is heuristically good but more
accurately it is connected with the "dog whistle effect" in
that the word "curvature" is really physics jargon for a
"time dilation". This time dilation simply LOWERS the
visual spectrum cutoff frequency (aka PFF) to the point
where 20% of normal reality becomes so blurred as to become
TOTALLY INVISIBLE. Of PARTICULAR impact is the loss of
facial/personality recognition in other people, so that
their TRUE IDENTITY becomes invisible to the observer, and
in fact, this is the central phenominology of God,
Religion, and Psychology and the central factor in crime,
conflict, wars and every human conflict known to Man.
By the way, Hammond did not "build" the SPOG, I actually
bit by bit "uncovered" the SPOG. It is a pure by the book
discovery, I had no preconceived notions and no agenda when
I commenced this research 25 years ago.



[Mark L. Fergerson]
Since the causes of what happen around us are observable, and the
more you can observe, the more causes you can correlate with effects,
the more you will attribute to "God" when you cannot perceive but a
little of reality. A fully developed human brain would support a mind
without such limitations; it would "know the mind of 'God'".


[Hammond]
The above paragraph is exactly correct and is in fact a
totally scientifically correct explanation of "God". And
obviously you're one of the few people in the world who is
aware of it! I'm quite astounded at your mild mannered
ability.


[Mark L. Fergerson]
What he has not so far accepted (I think) is that _all_ physically
real entities are subject to similar general rules except that
inorganic entities are not subject to a developmental BGD but rather
to situational limitations in their range of perception. Get down to
the level of electrons and it's obvious that a free electron can
"perceive" much more than can one confined in an orbital; the latter
is completely "blind" to photons that do not correspond to allowed
transitions. Of course electrons can change their situation so there
is no direct analog of "growth" for them, but they are extremely
simple systems- something as complex as a human brain is time-
direction-limited and cannot be "ungrown" from a given point then
"regrown" with more nutrients etc. to improve their functionality.


[Hammond]
All LIVING THINGS (DNA based life) have a GROWTH DEFICIT!

Unsupported (crap, insane, unscientific) assertion.

Also - up to this point you have SELECTIVELY been "reading wht isn't
there" - and coming to the deranged conclusion that this person's comments
agree with the totality of your crap!

"none" ""doug\"@(none)" wrote in message
news:aeOdnWeoSfm6yr_VnZ2dnUVZ_rDinZ2d@docknet...

[Hammond]
Horse****..... the linear variation of the PFF with
childhood growth, just like IQ, has been common knowlege
known and documented for 75 years.
[Doug, alleged physicist, SPOG critic]
So? It still has nothing to do with a god.


[Hammond]
Stop playing dumb. Obviously the PFF is the Fourier
Cutoff frequency of the human detection of visual motion,
and it WELL KNOWN to vary linearly with Human Growth.
So what?

Ergo, since the Secular Trend in Human Growth shows that
the average person only reaches about 80% of full growth;
20% of REALITY is INVISIBLE to the average person!
No, this is not true. What is true that the rate of motion
where a person starts seeing blurring is a variable with
different people and ages.

Clearly this constitutes an INVISBLE WORLD which is
exactly what Religion has been claiming for thousands of
years.]

This is a completely unsupported assumption. There is no
evidence at all for this other than your fantasy. End
of story, the spog is dead.


"spo crap" was never alive in the first place.

On Thu, 08 May 2008 19:14:02 GMT, "John Smith"
wrote:


"George Hammond" wrote in message
news
On Thu, 08 May 2008 02:09:57 GMT, George Hammond
wrote:

On Tue, 6 May 2008 23:26:30 -0700 (PDT), "Dr. HotSalt"
wrote:

On May 5, 4:40 pm, "Varekem" wrote:

(brevity snip)

[Varekem]
Sheesh Mark.So he isnt saying a real God exists, just that our lack of
growth makes us think there is one and creates the false illusion?

[Mark L. Fergerson]
No. I am saying that what he says is _partly_ correct, that humans
are capable only of observing that which we are capable of observing.
That would be a simple tautology except for the BGD (Brain Growth
Deficit)* issue; different humans are capable of observing different
amounts of reality due to their state of development in terms of how
accurately their DNA had the opportunity to be expressed as they grew
to adulthood, limited by in-utero and later nutrition and so on.


[Hammond]
YES, this a very commanding synopsis of the SPOG except
for the world "tautology" which has now been superseded in
this context by the term "Anthropic Principle" in modern
Physics, sort of the physics equivalent of WYSIWYG. Anyway,
congratulations, you're probably the only one on Usenet who
knows what the SPOG is about. Not an enviable position if
my experience is any example.


[Mark L. Fergerson]
I am saying that he is partly _incorrect_ not in that the above is
false (for it is obviously not) but in so far failing to analyze the
meaning of "perception" to see that it breaks finally down to physical
photon-driven interactions between fundamental particles.

George built the SPOG on a correspondence between the BGD and
Relativity* in that a fully developed human would "see" a "flat
psychometric* universe" such that nothing would be hidden beyond its
curvature analogous to how we cannot see into the past beyond a
certain point no matter how good a telescope we use; the Universe
simply is so big that some things are too far away for their light to
ever get here.



[Hammond]
Again congratulations in identifying "psychometric
curvature" (aka curvature of subjective spacetime) as the
cause of the "invisible world" (aka Heaven). The similarity
to an "event horizon" is heuristically good but more
accurately it is connected with the "dog whistle effect" in
that the word "curvature" is really physics jargon for a
"time dilation". This time dilation simply LOWERS the
visual spectrum cutoff frequency (aka PFF) to the point
where 20% of normal reality becomes so blurred as to become
TOTALLY INVISIBLE. Of PARTICULAR impact is the loss of
facial/personality recognition in other people, so that
their TRUE IDENTITY becomes invisible to the observer, and
in fact, this is the central phenominology of God,
Religion, and Psychology and the central factor in crime,
conflict, wars and every human conflict known to Man.
By the way, Hammond did not "build" the SPOG, I actually
bit by bit "uncovered" the SPOG. It is a pure by the book
discovery, I had no preconceived notions and no agenda when
I commenced this research 25 years ago.



[Mark L. Fergerson]
Since the causes of what happen around us are observable, and the
more you can observe, the more causes you can correlate with effects,
the more you will attribute to "God" when you cannot perceive but a
little of reality. A fully developed human brain would support a mind
without such limitations; it would "know the mind of 'God'".


[Hammond]
The above paragraph is exactly correct and is in fact a
totally scientifically correct explanation of "God". And
obviously you're one of the few people in the world who is
aware of it! I'm quite astounded at your mild mannered
ability.


[Mark L. Fergerson]
What he has not so far accepted (I think) is that _all_ physically
real entities are subject to similar general rules except that
inorganic entities are not subject to a developmental BGD but rather
to situational limitations in their range of perception. Get down to
the level of electrons and it's obvious that a free electron can
"perceive" much more than can one confined in an orbital; the latter
is completely "blind" to photons that do not correspond to allowed
transitions. Of course electrons can change their situation so there
is no direct analog of "growth" for them, but they are extremely
simple systems- something as complex as a human brain is time-
direction-limited and cannot be "ungrown" from a given point then
"regrown" with more nutrients etc. to improve their functionality.


[Hammond]
All LIVING THINGS (DNA based life) have a GROWTH DEFICIT!



[John Smith, sham rage heckler]
Unsupported (crap, insane, unscientific) assertion.

Also - up to this point you have SELECTIVELY been "reading wht isn't
there" - and coming to the deranged conclusion that this person's comments
agree with the totality of your crap!


[Hammond]
This person has been a regular commenter on the SPOG for
more than 8 years. He is well known to me and I am familiar
with his views.
Get off this thread Smith, take your heckling somewhere
else.
=====================================
SCIENTIFIC PROOF OF GOD WEBSITE
http://geocities.com/scientific_proof_of_god
mirror site:
http://proof-of-god.freewebsitehosting.com
GOD=G_uv (a folk song on mp3)
http://interrobang.jwgh.org/songs/hammond.mp3
=====================================

On Thu, 08 May 2008 19:17:21 GMT, "John Smith"
wrote:

snip no content

On May 8, 12:04*pm, George Hammond wrote: the
usual BS

George Hammond wrote:
Get real, pay attention, wake up.
If all people ceased to exist, reality would cease to exist
with them, since reality, BY DEFINITON, does not exist
without MAN to observe it into "reality".

[Paul Hovnanian P.E]
Prove that man exists. Without relying on the need for man to observe
himself, as that would be circular logic.


[Hammond]
It can't be done, that is EXACTLY MY POINT.
Thanks for making my day.

but the SPOG is entirely predicated on man existing! without a
(scientifically) provable man, there IS no SPOG! oh noes! I was
about to commit all my earnings to seeing the SPOG given the full
attention it deserves!!!

ah well. I'll just buy more junk food instead.


butting

--
http://homepages.ihug.co.nz/~butting
VADE FLERE, EMO-CAPRICULE