[Hammond]
Horse****..... the linear variation of the PFF with
childhood growth, just like IQ, has been common knowlege
known and documented for 75 years.
[Doug, alleged physicist, SPOG critic]
So? It still has nothing to do with a god.


[Hammond]
Stop playing dumb. Obviously the PFF is the Fourier
Cutoff frequency of the human detection of visual motion,
and it WELL KNOWN to vary linearly with Human Growth.
So what?

Ergo, since the Secular Trend in Human Growth shows that
the average person only reaches about 80% of full growth;
20% of REALITY is INVISIBLE to the average person!
No, this is not true. What is true that the rate of motion
where a person starts seeing blurring is a variable with
different people and ages.

Clearly this constitutes an INVISBLE WORLD which is
exactly what Religion has been claiming for thousands of
years.]

This is a completely unsupported assumption. There is no
evidence at all for this other than your fantasy. End
of story, the spog is dead.

Furthermore, it doesn’t take rocket science to figure out
that a fully grown human (of which theire are none) would be
ABLE to see 100% of reality, this person is called "GOD"
historically. QED, a scientific explanation of God has been
discovered.

Nonsense, see above.

AND REMEMBER, the evidence from the PFF is only
ELEMENTARY EVIDENCE which bozo's like you are able to
discuss, the SOPHISTICATED AND DEFINITIVE PROOF comes
from100 years of published Psychometry eigenvector structure
which proves that invisibility is caused by a EINSTEINIAN
CURVATURE of subjective spacetime, of course THAT is BEYOND
your puny scientific capacity.... you can't even understand
how a dog whistle works, never mind the "invisible world".

You have totally degenerated into word salad and dreams here.



=====================================
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=====================================

George Hammond wrote:
On Mon, 05 May 2008 23:27:59 -0400, TMG
wrote:

George Hammond wrote:
On Mon, 5 May 2008 21:36:17 +0000 (UTC),
(Michael Moroney) wrote:

George Hammond writes:

Hey, Phd physicist; tell us how a dog whistle works.....
tell us why half of the audible reality that a dog can hear
is audibally INVISIBLE to a human being?
From that maybe you can figure out why the fact that a
kid has HALF the movie Picture Fusion Frequency of and adult
means that half the world that an adult can see is invisible
to the kid.
[Michael Moroney, heckler]
Actually George has this backwards (no surprise here). Kids can hear
higher frequencies than adults and the ability to hear high frequencies
decreases with age.



[Hammond]
Irrelevant heckler trivia. The next thing he'll do is
start posting about Flickker Fusion Frequency whaich has
NOTHING to do with it.
The following has been well researched and documented:

http://www.v-weiss.de/lehrl-full.html#_edn1
"By a similar method, called ‘picture fusion’ Riedel (1966)
demonstrated that the time shortens as children mature. By
this method, which is explained in the next section, he
investigated children from 7 years (10 frames/s) onward to
15 years (15 frames/s)."

Obviously from this well known data which is common
knowlege in the movie industry since the time of Thomas
Edison, a child cn only see 1/3 of the moving reality that
is visible to an adult. 2/3's OF REALITY IS INVISBLE !
No, no, no. You keep making the mistaken leap, and you ignore the fact
that it's been pointed out MANY times.

The effect you are describing relates to the point that various subjects
perceive flickering static pictures "merge" into the illusion of motion.
You are leaping to the erroneous conclusion that this means that
there is some sort of information lost.

AGAIN, the experiments show ONLY that apparent motion of flashing static
images convert at different rates, NO information is lost, no matter the
apparent conversion rate.

This is stressed AT LENGTH by Siegfried Lehrl and Kristian Gerst Meyer -
they were focused (mostly) on physical science related to the eye
(mostly the lens), but extensively reworked earlier thoughts.

If, as you claim, you know Lehrl "personally" you should keep up.



[Hammond]
NO...... the problem is you're another half baked phony
PhD physicist who has a degree in some lame brain applied
physics field, in your case "ocean physics" whatever the
hell that is.
I suggest you talk to "Doug" who is apparently another
half baked PhD physicist who is also an aggravated SPOG
critic. Sheesh....
Not aggravated, just highly amused at your nonsense.

Point is, you don't even know enough physics to realize
that the "PFF" is the FOURIER SPECTRUM CUTOFF FREQUENCY of
the human visual system's ability to perceive motion.
You don't know what a Fourier Frequency Spectrum of a
time varying function is, and you are not aware of what
happens if you put a high frequency filter in the line and
CUTOFF all the high frequency components. so I’ll TELL YOU
what the effect is, it causes all fast motion in the field
to become a BLUR.... to become INVISIBLE if it's fast
enough. turns out that filter is you're "intelligence" and
intelligence varies DIRECTLY with growth.
Now that's basic physics, and obviously the "PFF" is
simply a direct way to quantitatively MEASURE the CUTOFF
FREQUENCY in any individual.

So what? That has nothing to do with god, any god.

You don't know what you're talking about!
=====================================
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=====================================

George Hammond wrote:
On Wed, 07 May 2008 08:16:34 -0700, none ""doug\"@(none)"
wrote:

George Hammond wrote:
On Mon, 05 May 2008 19:56:00 -0700, none ""doug\"@(none)"
wrote:

Sheesh Mark.So he isnt saying a real God exists, just that our lack of
growth makes us think there is one and creates the false illusion?



[Hammond]
WRONG..... there IS NO ILLUSION.....!!!!
Our lack of growth creates a REAL GOD, the actual God of the
Bible. It has nothing to do with "thinking"it has to do
with actual "SEEING".

[Doug, dubious physics PhD claimant. SPOG heckler]
So man created god through his ignorance?

[Hammond]
Quit flaunting your asinine stupidity! The Secular Trend
Growth Deficit has nothing to do with ignorance. The
Secular Trend is caused by the entire history of the
Standard of Living, mainly neutrition for the past 200,000
years.
2 million years for our direct ancestors, one billion for
our further ancestors.

It's BIOLOGICAL ****head! In the 3rd world in areas
of chronic historic starvation the gowth deficit is near 50%
in some places; 3 year olds the size of infants! Wise up or
get off this thread, phony PhD.
Is "gowth" deficit the same as growth deficit?



[Doug, dubious physics PhD claimant. SPOG heckler]
That kind of insultsthe christian god doesn't it? Why
would it be the christian god and not Odin or Zeus or
Baal or some other god? You see now the leaps of
faith you are using to get to your desiredconclusion.



[Hammond]
Get the f--- outta here ignoramus! Zeus, Baal, Odin are
all 2nd order eigenvectors of the Structural Model in
Psychometry which is UNIVERSAL, the Christian "God" is a
SINGLE 4th Order eigenvector.

In the christian religion, your opinion might be true but
the other religions of the world would dispute that. You
are assuming that the christian god is the real one and
there is certainly no support for that assumption.

You don't know what your
talking about, you sound like an ignorant high school
dropout not a scientist!


[Doug, alleged PhD physicist, SPOG skeptic]
So this means that the christians have slower reflexes than
the hindus and buddhists?


[Hammond]
WRONG.... obviously..... Unicef, WHOI and academic
research has well documented the fact that the SECULAR TREND
GROWTH DEFICIT is much larger in Third World countries than
it is in the Chrisitian West....


[Doug, dubious physics PhD claimant. SPOG heckler]
This is an astonishingly biased statement rooted solely in
your prejudiced world view. So if a third world person becomes
a christian, they automatically become smarter? Or is coming
to our country sufficient to become smarter or are people who
are born here but not christians not as smart as native born
christians?



[Hammond]
Quit spouting high school dropout ignorance, phony PhD!
The smaller Brain Growth Deficit in the West is due to the
HIGHER STANDARD OF LIVING in the West compared to the 3rd
World, any idiot knows that. You're a racist pig and a
bigot, phony PhD claimant, and an asinine provocateur. And
a ****head.
So the japanese are automatically all now malnourished?
You are the ones making racist claims.

[Hammond]
. which literally means that
"God, Heaven and the invisible world" are LARGER in the 3rd
World than they are in the Christian West.

[Doug, dubious physics PhD claimant. SPOG heckler]
Among other things, this statement, by itself, disproves
your spog speculation.


[Hammond]
Get out of here you mentally challenged moron. Even
remote illiterate Mongolian tribesman are aware of this
scientific fact and testify so when they sophisticatedly
query unsuspecting Western academic field researchers as to
"Whether the Moon is large in the united States than it is
in Mongolia"; which is a metaphor far over your puny
pinheaded inetllectual awareness.

It is humorous to watch you squirm when you cannot prove
what you say. You start swearing more and getting more
irrational. You should just take a deep breath and admit
you are wrong. It is not good for your health to get worked
up over this. You should put this behind you and move on
and try to do something worthwhile with your time.
You are out of your level of reasoning on this topic and
it is easy to see why you failed out of graduate school.
I watched many people in my class have the same problems.
However, I made it though just fine.

You can bluster and swear some more or you can think
about trying to do some good in the world. Your choice.




=====================================
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=====================================

George Hammond wrote:
On Wed, 07 May 2008 07:42:27 -0700, none ""doug\"@(none)"
wrote:

[Hammond]
FYI, the leadership of the world (which you don't belong
to) have known for thousands of years that poorly developed
people cannot "see" reality as well as highly developed
people, which is WHY highly developed people are in
leadership positions in the first place.

[Doug, bogus physicist and SPOG heckler]
Therefore blind people are poorly developed?



[Hammond]
Cut the **** heckler, dwarfs, midgets, giants, amputees,
lobotomies and blind people are NOT the result of the
Secular Trend Growth Deficit which is UNIVERSAL in the human
race. Quit posting amateur trivia trolling harrassment.
Amateurs have spent years doing this to no avail, you're
just the latest punk heckler to come down the pike!

I am surprised by your inconsistent reply. Blind people
cannot see any motion, therefore by your definition, they
have a low perception of reality.


[Hammond]
Today, the scientific explanation, measurement and PROOF
of this has been found, and it is most directly demonstrated
by the variation of PFF vs. growth.

This has nothing to do with any god.

You're supposed to be a PhD physicist, then surely you
know what a FOURIER FREQUENCY SPECTRUM is, and if so you
should realize that the PFF is a direct measure of the
FOURIER JSPECTRUM CUTOFF FREQUENCY of the Fourier
Transformed spectrum of VISUAL MOVEMENT in the human visual
field. If that cutoff frequency (PFF) is 50% less for one
person compared to another person, then that person sees
HALF THE MOTION of reality that the other person sees.


[Doug, bogus physicist and SPOG heckler]
This is not true. When you do the fourier transform of the
view of the real world, you get a spectrum of the motion.
With varying cutoff frequencies in this domain, the retransformed
image can be seen to have been affected.


[Hammond]
We're not talking about filtering out high frequencies
that nobody can see anyway, we're tallking about filtering
out 20% or more of the high frequencies they CAN see, in
THAT case the difference is very noticible, MAINLY the
difference in peoples' facial expression and personality
identity... these change drastically. An automoble driving
down the road doesn't look any different, but personality
"identity" is drastically changed if you cut mental
speed...,. this is why it easy to deceive a child... he has
only half the mental speed you have, your true identity is
INVISLBE to him.

[Doug, bogus physicist and SPOG heckler]
However, the
amount of high frequency spectral content in the transform
for our normal world situations is very low. This is why
mpeg video compression works well. Most changes in our
views happen slowly. Thus someone who sees things 50%
slower may still see 99% of the scene contents or more.


[Hammond]
WRONG physics flunky. mpeg compression is NOT THE SAME
as a LO PASS FILTER. mpeg compression is virtually
lossless, and is effected by very sophisticated pixel
velocity prediction algorythms which are used to predict and
then reconstuct redundant motion and eliminate repetiitive
pixel transmission. There is NO COMPARISON between high
frequency filtering and video compression. Filtering is a
DIRECT LOSS of information, modern compression is vitually
lossless!

Sorry but this is wrong as well. Mpeg is a lossy compression.
It has artifacts and the loss of detail is proportional to
the compression rate. You do not understand that what was
said was that you can remove a lot of motion and not change
the basic image very much. Thus a 20% difference in fusion
frequency does not mean you see 20% less. Not that it matters
since this has nothing to do with any god.



[Doug, bogus physicist and SPOG heckler]
The picture of a rock on the ground is the same for
everyone.

[Hammond]
Even that isn't true. Almost every solid object in nature
shows telltale signs of motion, including wear on rocks,
wind and water erosion and movement, the wind swept profile
of trees etc.

Now George, I think that even your fusion frequency is high
enough to see the rate of erosion of a rock.

[Doug, bogus physicist and SPOG heckler]
The fusion frequency has developed through evolution to be
adequate for our world. Attaching any further significance
to it is pure speculation.


[Hammond]
You're full of it too. The Growth Deficit has nothing to
do with "Evolution" and it knocks 20% off the PFF for every
adult in the population, some far more than 20%, you don't
know what the hell you're talking about, and could care
less, and I could care less about you amateur opinions.


When you are losing the argument you snip and swear. This
means you are really losing the discussion and perhaps
are even realizing how wrong you are. Keep it up and
you will be on the road to getting better.



snip ignorant amateur aggravated atheistic trash
=====================================
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=====================================

On Tue, 6 May 2008 23:26:30 -0700 (PDT), "Dr. HotSalt"
wrote:

On May 5, 4:40 pm, "Varekem" wrote:

(brevity snip)

[Varekem]
Sheesh Mark.So he isnt saying a real God exists, just that our lack of
growth makes us think there is one and creates the false illusion?

[Mark L. Fergerson]
No. I am saying that what he says is _partly_ correct, that humans
are capable only of observing that which we are capable of observing.
That would be a simple tautology except for the BGD (Brain Growth
Deficit)* issue; different humans are capable of observing different
amounts of reality due to their state of development in terms of how
accurately their DNA had the opportunity to be expressed as they grew
to adulthood, limited by in-utero and later nutrition and so on.


[Hammond]
YES, this a very commanding synopsis of the SPOG except
for the world "tautology" which has now been superseded in
this context by the term "Anthropic Principle" in modern
Physics, sort of the physics equivalent of WYSIWYG. Anyway,
congratulations, you're probably the only one on Usenet who
knows what the SPOG is about. Not an enviable position if
my experience is any example.


[Mark L. Fergerson]
I am saying that he is partly _incorrect_ not in that the above is
false (for it is obviously not) but in so far failing to analyze the
meaning of "perception" to see that it breaks finally down to physical
photon-driven interactions between fundamental particles.

George built the SPOG on a correspondence between the BGD and
Relativity* in that a fully developed human would "see" a "flat
psychometric* universe" such that nothing would be hidden beyond its
curvature analogous to how we cannot see into the past beyond a
certain point no matter how good a telescope we use; the Universe
simply is so big that some things are too far away for their light to
ever get here.



[Hammond]
Again congratulations in identifying "psychometric
curvature" (aka curvature of subjective spacetime) as the
cause of the "invisible world" (aka Heaven). The similarity
to an "event horizon" is heuristically good but more
accurately it is connected with the "dog whistle effect" in
that the word "curvature" is really physics jargon for a
"time dilation". This time dilation simply LOWERS the
visual spectrum cutoff frequency (aka PFF) to the point
where 20% of normal reality becomes so blurred as to become
TOTALLY INVISIBLE. Of PARTICULAR impact is the loss of
facial/personality recognition in other people, so that
their TRUE IDENTITY becomes invisible to the observer, and
in fact, this is the central phenominology of God,
Religion, and Psychology and the central factor in crime,
conflict, wars and every human conflict known to Man.
By the way, Hammond did not "build" the SPOG, I actually
bit by bit "uncovered" the SPOG. It is a pure by the book
discovery, I had no preconceived notions and no agenda when
I commenced this research 25 years ago.



[Mark L. Fergerson]
Since the causes of what happen around us are observable, and the
more you can observe, the more causes you can correlate with effects,
the more you will attribute to "God" when you cannot perceive but a
little of reality. A fully developed human brain would support a mind
without such limitations; it would "know the mind of 'God'".


[Hammond]
The above paragraph is exactly correct and is in fact a
totally scientifically correct explanation of "God". And
obviously you're one of the few people in the world who is
aware of it! I'm quite astounded at your mild mannered
ability.


[Mark L. Fergerson]
What he has not so far accepted (I think) is that _all_ physically
real entities are subject to similar general rules except that
inorganic entities are not subject to a developmental BGD but rather
to situational limitations in their range of perception. Get down to
the level of electrons and it's obvious that a free electron can
"perceive" much more than can one confined in an orbital; the latter
is completely "blind" to photons that do not correspond to allowed
transitions. Of course electrons can change their situation so there
is no direct analog of "growth" for them, but they are extremely
simple systems- something as complex as a human brain is time-
direction-limited and cannot be "ungrown" from a given point then
"regrown" with more nutrients etc. to improve their functionality.


[Hammond]
All LIVING THINGS (DNA based life) have a GROWTH DEFICIT!
The only exception to this are perhaps viruses, where the
individual atoms can be counted.
But certainly all multicellular animals have a growth
deficit, and any animal with a "brain" has a "brain growth
deficit" and is therefore subject to "God".
The "God" of Man is simply a 100% fully grown man. On
the other had the God of a horse is a fully grown horse,
same for a frog or an alligator. Since the perceptual
effect is SIMILAR in a Man, cat, dog, horse etc., we simply
call this universal perceptual effect of perceiving animals,
"GOD". Your cat or dog is aware that there is a "God".
On the other hand, to say that an "electron" "perceives"
anything is a stretch in my opinion. Certainly an electron
cannot perceive a tree, or anything like reality as we know
it. The 3,500 year old God of the Bible, is an
ANTHROPOMORPHIC GOD, and has the bodily form of a man, and
the MIND OF A MAN. The anthropomorphic God of the Bible has
been the workhorse of religion for thousands of years, still
is, and will be for the duration. HE can never be
disproved, or refuted especially after the advent of a SPOG,
and regardless of future scientific developments.
I know that Einstein himself did not believe in an
anthropomorphic God, however, Einstein was WRONG. And it is
a complete IRONY that the world's first scientific proof
that there IS an anthropomorphic God rests squarely on
Einstein's discovery of the theory of General Relativity.
Just goes to show that what you say and what you do can be
two far different things, especially if you are Einstein
facing the biggest wave of Anti-Semitism in history!


[Mark L. Fergerson]
Hence the SPOG is not only congruent with Relativity but Quantum
Mechanics as well; if George will recognize and develop the latter
congruence fully he will have done what Einstein tried and failed to
do; unite Relativity and Quantum Mechanics. This will make it simply
impossible for an educated person to reject the SPOG in part or in
whole.


[Hammond]
Hold on a minute Mark. Strictly speaking the SPOG is a
"SEMICLASSICAL THEORY". IOW, the SPOG clearly proves that
"God and the invisible world- Heaven" are caused by a
"gravitational curvature of subjective spacetime", but the
ORIGIN of the Gravity cannot be Classical. There is no
classical gravity to speak of in the human brain, and it
can't be terrestrial gravity either because that is a
constant, while the size of God and Heaven decreases
inversely with the Secular Trend. So WHERE IS THE GRAVITY?
The only obvious answer to that, the prime candidate, is
"Quantum Gravity" in the brain, specifically it appears,
Penrose's Quantum Brain Gravity. According to Penrose, it
is quantum Gravity which collapses the wave function in all
processes, including brain function. So, it APPEARS that de
facto, that this quantum gravity QM collapse mechanism is
ultimately what controls brain growth itself, and that is
HOW we end up with a "classical gravitational curvature" in
human subjective spacetime, a.k.a. "God".
NOTE, however, that the proof of the SPOG does NOT depend
on this hypothesis, the proof of the SPOG is an EXPERIMENTAL
FACT, regardless of the mechanism underlying it, therefore
the proof of God is an irrefutable experimental fact
likewise.



[Mark L. Fergerson]
It is my suspicion that George resists my points due to his strong
orthodox Christian upbringing which places Humanity at the apex of
Creation,


[Hammond]
Na, I was born an atheist, and remained an atheist up
until the time that I accidentally stumbled across the
scientific proof of God when I was 55 years of age in 1997.
I had no religious beliefs whatsoever. I was searching
for the Structural Model of Personality when I ACCIDENTALLY
discovered the SPOG, and suddenly realized that there WAS a
"God" and what it was, and what religion was actually
talking about behind all that metaphorical mumbo jumbo!


[Mark L. Fergerson]
and completely discounts the possibility of other
sentiences.


[Hammond]
Na, as I stated above all living things with a brain are
certainly "sentient" to some degree, especially the higher
quadrupeds. However, they do NOT see the same world or
"reality" that Man does. Therefore, they are only vaguely
aware of the God of Man. They are beasts of a "lesser God"
so to speak.



[Mark L. Fergerson]
It is this sort of thinking that informs the "observer
effect" in the infamous Schroedinger's Cat gedankenexperiment- that
only a human can "observe" the outcome of an event. Yet when pressed,
a proponent of that view will admit that an observer isolated in a
laboratory with the apparatus CANNOT "collapse the waveform" for the
universe exterior to the lab until he tells someone outside, WHICH IS
BLATANTLY RIDICULOUS. AN OBSERVER IS AN OBSERVER, BE THEY HUMAN, CAT,
OR A SINGLE ORBITAL ELECTRON IN THE RADIATION DETECTOR APPARATUS.



[Hammond]
I totally disagree with "Pantheism". Classically
speaking God is an MAN. There IS NO such thing as a
non-human "observer" in Physics. This is proven by the fact
that the mere existence of reality can only be confirmed by
a HUMAN observer. If all humans died tomorrow, by physics
definition, nothing would exist! On the other hand, if all
elephants died tomorrow, we'd hardly notice the difference!
Elephants do NOT "create the existence of reality", only Man
does.


[Mark L. Fergerson]
OTOH one could argue that the perceptions of an electron are simply
not relevant to any sort of "God" concept humans would be interested
in,



[Hammond]
I have to agree with that most emphatically.


[Mark L. Fergerson]
but I point out that the SPOG is a PHYSICAL theory which CANNOT
afford to ignore the physics it is rooted in.


[Hammond]
That on the other hand is a valid point.


[Mark L. Fergerson]
It is my contention that
George is IGNORING one of the major roots of the SPOG. Without it the
SPOG is fatally incomplete just as current physics is and for the
exact same reasons; the elaborate developments of Relativity and
Quantum mechanics separately describe beautifully and deeply many,
many aspects of reality; but until they are combined successfully
NEITHER IS ADEQUATE ON ITS OWN for there are many phenomena each
CANNOT ALONE describe or predict. Hence the SPOG is HOBBLED from
explaining and predicting many phenomena of the human brain and mind
until George buckles down to COMPLETING the SPOG by FULLY quantizing
it.


[Hammond]
As I have pointed out above, the "gravity" that is
causing God is believed to be quantum gravity in the brain.
So OBVIOUSLY, when the as yet undiscovered theory of Quantum
Gravity is finally discovered, we will have in addition to
the "classical" explanation of God; a "quantum" explanation
of God.
However, the discovery of the quantum theory of gravity
could be a hundred years away, there isn't even a viable
candidate for such a theory at the time of this writing. No
one knows what it is?
Therefore there is no way that the SPOG can be
"quantized" at the present time. But Science is working on
QG night and day, believe me!


[Mark L. Fergerson]
I will point out that he has started to by realizing that the
ancients had already split the idea into what I called eigengods
except they called them members of a pantheon. Now George must reach
down into the guts of the SPOG and see that it must ALL be similarly
quantized.



[Hammond]
I want to congratulate you for coining a very useful and
historically important term, namely:

"EIGENGODS"
(Mark Fergerson, 5-7- 2008)

I intend to use your new terminology in my book and
writings, and will give you full credit for coining the
term! Boy, that's a duzy! The SPOG after all proves that
all of the Egypto-Greco-Roman gods are in fact "Eigengods",
being 2nd order eigenvectors of Psychometry, cubically
correlated btw. In fact, ALL "demigods" in world religion
anywhere, are either 1st or 2nd order eigenvectors, and
therefore EIGENGODS ! You are assured of leaving your
calling card to history with that piece of linguistic
invention!
Finally of course, the supreme Deity, the anthropomorphic
God most accessibly described in the Christian Bible is a
"Supreme-Eigengod", since there is only ONE EIGENVECTOR at
the top of the factor hierarchy- at the 4th order, which is
where all factor analysis in Psychometry come to a halt.



[Mark L. Fergerson]
(There is also the possibility that George thinks that what I write
may simply be elaborate mockery. However I say let what I write stand
on its own merit. I have no stake one way or the other save this;


[Hammond]
Frankly Mark, at this point I consider you about the only
person on the Usenet who has ever said anything constructive
about the SPOG! I am impressed that your communications are
NOT, in fact, mockery!


[Mark L. Fergerson]
I believe that if the SPOG becomes generally known and accepted, a large
proportion of the population will be relieved of the usual anxiety and
guilt over their intellectual status which gives religions the control
used to manipulate them into becoming tools of "smarter" people
leading to wars and mass deaths.)


[Hammond]
That is of course the hope that is driving me, and
certainly the dream that was driving all of our best
scientists, including Einstein.
Particularly important at the present is the conflict
between jihadist Islam and Christianity. Frankly I'd like
to be a fly on the wall when Osama Bin Ladin hears that a
Christian physicist in the U.S.A. has discovered the world's
first scientific proof of God. That ought to put the fear
of God into him if nothing else does!



[Mark L. Fergerson]
Again I emphasize that this will make the SPOG completely
INDISPUTABLE ON ANY BASIS TO AN EDUCATED PERSON.


[Hammond]
The SPOG is in fact ALREADY indisputable to educated
people. Of course that depends on what you mean by
"educated". It may be that "understanding the SPOG" has
become a new litmus test for being "educated", sort of like
understanding Einstein's theory was in the old days. Poker's
going up in academia I guess!



[Mark L. Fergerson]
At one time I had suggested that George break the SPOG's components
down into a set of "baby steps" that an uneducated person could follow
from one to the next so that any person who could read would be led
inexorably to accept the SPOG but George seems to think this to be
unnecessary. I suggested it as a way to bypass "authoritative"
arguments against the SPOG by educated persons with an agenda to
defend; currently to grok the SPOG one must be at least passingly
familiar with many separate disciplines from General Relativity to
neurophysiology. Most people simply glaze over at detailed
descriptions and accept the pronouncements of "authorities", and
perhaps George is right; most people would simply glaze over at the
prospect of even a single volume version of "baby stepped SPOG".

* These and other terms' relevance to the SPOG are better explained by
George; I spell them out just for clarity in this limited context.

Mark L. Fergerson


[Hammond]
I am preparing a definitive book on the SPOG entitled:
The
Scientific
Proof of God
When I'll get it finished heaven only knows. I've made a
number of false starts already and have virtually all of the
material at my fingertips, but the choice of style, content,
arrangement, illustrations etc. are still plaguing me.
Meanwhile, I want to thank you personally for your bold
and extremely encouraging post. Rational and competent
discussion of this subject on Usenet is extremely rare as
you know.
George Hammond
=====================================
SCIENTIFIC PROOF OF GOD WEBSITE
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mirror site:
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GOD=G_uv (a folk song on mp3)
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=====================================

On Wed, 7 May 2008 14:18:07 -0700 (PDT), Don Stockbauer
wrote:


SCIENTIFIC PROOF OF GOD

God, you people are sure nasty to each other. It's a real turn off,
Hammond.

[Hammond]
Go f--- yourself Stockbaur.


Oh - by the way- the Universe and God are identical.


[Hammond]
Who told you that, your grandmother?
Whaddid she study ancient Greeks Stoicism in her spare time?
Stoic pahtheism has been out of fashion for 2500 years,
moron.
=====================================
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mirror site:
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GOD=G_uv (a folk song on mp3)
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=====================================

On Wed, 07 May 2008 22:46:40 GMT, "John Smith"
wrote:


"George Hammond" wrote in message
.. .
On Wed, 07 May 2008 07:42:27 -0700, none ""doug\"@(none)"
wrote:


[Hammond]
FYI, the leadership of the world (which you don't belong
to) have known for thousands of years that poorly developed
people cannot "see" reality as well as highly developed
people, which is WHY highly developed people are in
leadership positions in the first place.


[Doug, bogus physicist and SPOG heckler]
Therefore blind people are poorly developed?



[Hammond]
Cut the **** heckler, dwarfs, midgets, giants, amputees,
lobotomies and blind people are NOT the result of the
Secular Trend Growth Deficit which is UNIVERSAL in the human
race. Quit posting amateur trivia trolling harrassment.
Amateurs have spent years doing this to no avail, you're
just the latest punk heckler to come down the pike!

[John Smith, heckler]
Couldn't answer the question ......huh?

[Hammond]
The answer is NO.
=====================================
SCIENTIFIC PROOF OF GOD WEBSITE
http://geocities.com/scientific_proof_of_god
mirror site:
http://proof-of-god.freewebsitehosting.com
GOD=G_uv (a folk song on mp3)
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=====================================

On Wed, 07 May 2008 18:42:41 -0700, none ""doug\"@(none)"
wrote:

George Hammond wrote:
On Wed, 07 May 2008 07:42:27 -0700, none ""doug\"@(none)"
wrote:

[Hammond]
FYI, the leadership of the world (which you don't belong
to) have known for thousands of years that poorly developed
people cannot "see" reality as well as highly developed
people, which is WHY highly developed people are in
leadership positions in the first place.

[Doug, bogus physicist and SPOG heckler]
Therefore blind people are poorly developed?



[Hammond]
Cut the **** heckler, dwarfs, midgets, giants, amputees,
lobotomies and blind people are NOT the result of the
Secular Trend Growth Deficit which is UNIVERSAL in the human
race. Quit posting amateur trivia trolling harrassment.
Amateurs have spent years doing this to no avail, you're
just the latest punk heckler to come down the pike!

I am surprised by your inconsistent reply. Blind people
cannot see any motion, therefore by your definition, they
have a low perception of reality.



[Hammond]
Amateur level neocriminal heckling. You're a real piece
of yuppie scum.
The existence of God jfor any person depends ONLY on his
growthcurve deficit. Doesn't matter whether you're
blindfolded with duct tape or not. amateur jheckling piece
of filth.



[Hammond]
Today, the scientific explanation, measurement and PROOF
of this has been found, and it is most directly demonstrated
by the variation of PFF vs. growth.

[Doug, bogus physicist and SPOG heckler]
This has nothing to do with any god.

[Hammond]
UNSUPPORTED ASSERTION

You're supposed to be a PhD physicist, then surely you
know what a FOURIER FREQUENCY SPECTRUM is, and if so you
should realize that the PFF is a direct measure of the
FOURIER JSPECTRUM CUTOFF FREQUENCY of the Fourier
Transformed spectrum of VISUAL MOVEMENT in the human visual
field. If that cutoff frequency (PFF) is 50% less for one
person compared to another person, then that person sees
HALF THE MOTION of reality that the other person sees.


[Doug, bogus physicist and SPOG heckler]
This is not true. When you do the fourier transform of the
view of the real world, you get a spectrum of the motion.
With varying cutoff frequencies in this domain, the retransformed
image can be seen to have been affected.


[Hammond]
We're not talking about filtering out high frequencies
that nobody can see anyway, we're tallking about filtering
out 20% or more of the high frequencies they CAN see, in
THAT case the difference is very noticible, MAINLY the
difference in peoples' facial expression and personality
identity... these change drastically. An automoble driving
down the road doesn't look any different, but personality
"identity" is drastically changed if you cut mental
speed...,. this is why it easy to deceive a child... he has
only half the mental speed you have, your true identity is
INVISLBE to him.

[Doug, bogus physicist and SPOG heckler]
However, the
amount of high frequency spectral content in the transform
for our normal world situations is very low. This is why
mpeg video compression works well. Most changes in our
views happen slowly. Thus someone who sees things 50%
slower may still see 99% of the scene contents or more.


[Hammond]
WRONG physics flunky. mpeg compression is NOT THE SAME
as a LO PASS FILTER. mpeg compression is virtually
lossless, and is effected by very sophisticated pixel
velocity prediction algorythms which are used to predict and
then reconstuct redundant motion and eliminate repetiitive
pixel transmission. There is NO COMPARISON between high
frequency filtering and video compression. Filtering is a
DIRECT LOSS of information, modern compression is vitually
lossless!


[Doug, bogus physicist and SPOG heckler]
Sorry but this is wrong as well. Mpeg is a lossy compression.
It has artifacts and the loss of detail is proportional to
the compression rate.


[Hammond]
So does static in a video signal, that has nothing to do
with high frequency attenuation.


You do not understand that what was
said was that you can remove a lot of motion and not change
the basic image very much.


[Hammond]
Not by cutting off the top 20% of the VISIBLE motion
spectrum which is what a hi frequency filter, or reduction
in PFF will do.


[Doug, bogus physicist and SPOG heckler]
Thus a 20% difference in fusion
frequency does not mean you see 20% less

[Hammond]
Yes it does asshole. IQ in adults is directly
proportioanal to PFF since both are simply a measure of
mental speed in bits/sec. therefore a 20% reduction in PFF
is equivalent to a 20$ reduction in IQ, say from 100 to 80.
Besides mathematically having a 20% reduced information
processing capability, I think growth in children is OBVIOUS
evidence that a 20% reduction in speed is equivfalent to a
20% reduction in visual perception, for instance, people
mature at 18, and 80% of 18 is 14.4, I think its commonly
observed that an 18 year old has 20% better vision
comprehension than a 14.4 year old.

[Doug, bogus physicist and SPOG heckler]
. Not that it matters
since this has nothing to do with any god.


[Hammond]
Quit posting UNSUPPORTED ASSERTIONS



[Doug, bogus physicist and SPOG heckler]
The picture of a rock on the ground is the same for
everyone.

[Hammond]
Even that isn't true. Almost every solid object in nature
shows telltale signs of motion, including wear on rocks,
wind and water erosion and movement, the wind swept profile
of trees etc.

Now George, I think that even your fusion frequency is high
enough to see the rate of erosion of a rock.

[Doug, bogus physicist and SPOG heckler]
The fusion frequency has developed through evolution to be
adequate for our world. Attaching any further significance
to it is pure speculation.


[Hammond]
You're full of it too. The Growth Deficit has nothing to
do with "Evolution" and it knocks 20% off the PFF for every
adult in the population, some far more than 20%, you don't
know what the hell you're talking about, and could care
less, and I could care less about you amateur opinions.


When you are losing the argument you snip and swear. This
means you are really losing the discussion and perhaps
are even realizing how wrong you are. Keep it up and
you will be on the road to getting better.


[hAMMOND]
I can kick kook ass all day long. Particularly enjoyable
is academic yuppie scum like you.

snip ignorant amateur aggravated atheistic trash
=====================================
SCIENTIFIC PROOF OF GOD WEBSITE
http://geocities.com/scientific_proof_of_god
mirror site:
http://proof-of-god.freewebsitehosting.com
GOD=G_uv (a folk song on mp3)
http://interrobang.jwgh.org/songs/hammond.mp3
=====================================

On Wed, 07 May 2008 18:28:21 -0700, none ""doug\"@(none)"
wrote:


[Hammond]
Horse****..... the linear variation of the PFF with
childhood growth, just like IQ, has been common knowlege
known and documented for 75 years.
[Doug, alleged physicist, SPOG critic]
So? It still has nothing to do with a god.


[Hammond]
Stop playing dumb. Obviously the PFF is the Fourier
Cutoff frequency of the human detection of visual motion,
and it WELL KNOWN to vary linearly with Human Growth.

[Doug, bogus physicist and SPOG heckler]
So what?

[Hammond]
So read the rest of the paragraph pinhead.

[Doug, bogus physicist and SPOG heckler]
Ergo, since the Secular Trend in Human Growth shows that
the average person only reaches about 80% of full growth;
20% of REALITY is INVISIBLE to the average person!

[Doug, bogus physicist and SPOG heckler]
No, this is not true. What is true that the rate of motion
where a person starts seeing blurring is a variable with
different people and ages.


[Hammond]
Congratulations, that wasn't too hard for you was it?

[Doug, bogus physicist and SPOG heckler]
Clearly this constitutes an INVISBLE WORLD which is
exactly what Religion has been claiming for thousands of
years.]

This is a completely unsupported assumption. There is no
evidence at all for this other than your fantasy.

[Hammond]
Nonsense, the full body of evidence PROVES THAT since it
explains in quatitative detail all 20 of the fundamental
claims of religion about the "invible world", "God" and
"Heaven". Sorry dip****, you can't argue against a theory
without actually reding it and knowing what it is about.
You're all through punk, go find something else to do
that isn't too challenging for you. you'll get nothing but
your ignorance and aggravated counterproductiveness exposed
on this thread.

snip trash
=====================================
SCIENTIFIC PROOF OF GOD WEBSITE
http://geocities.com/scientific_proof_of_god
mirror site:
http://proof-of-god.freewebsitehosting.com
GOD=G_uv (a folk song on mp3)
http://interrobang.jwgh.org/songs/hammond.mp3
=====================================

On Wed, 07 May 2008 18:29:34 -0700, none ""doug\"@(none)"
wrote:

snip, no on topic content
=====================================
SCIENTIFIC PROOF OF GOD WEBSITE
http://geocities.com/scientific_proof_of_god
mirror site:
http://proof-of-god.freewebsitehosting.com
GOD=G_uv (a folk song on mp3)
http://interrobang.jwgh.org/songs/hammond.mp3
=====================================