Entropy.
1.
Henry Poincare named the conception of "entropy "
as a " surprising abstract ".
2.
L. Landau (Dau) wrote:
" A question about the physical basis of the
entropy monotonous increasing law remains open ".
3.
The famous mathematician John von Neumann said to
"the father of information theory" Claude Shannon:
" Name it "entropy" then in discussions
you will receive solid advantage, because
nobody knows, what "entropy" basically is ".
=============..
1.
Between 1850 - 1865 Rudolf Clausius published a paper
in which he called " The energy conservation law" as
" The first law of thermodynamics". But in our nature the
heat always flows from the higher temperature to the
lower one and never back. In our everyday life we don't see
the heat itself rises from cold to hot. So, it seemed that
in thermodynamics " The energy conservation law"
wasn't kept, this law was broken. But Clausius had another
opinion. He thought: I know people believe that this process is
irreversible, but I am sure that " The energy conservation law"
is universal law and it must be correct also for thermodynamic
process. So, how can I save this law ?
Probably, in the thermodynamic process there is something
that we don't know. Maybe, there is some degradation
of the total energy in the system which never disappears .
Perhaps, there is some non-useful heat, some unseen process ,
some unknown dark energy , some another form of potential
energy/heat itself which can transform heat from the cold
body to the warm one. I will call this conception as " entropy"
and as it is not a law I take it as " The second principle
of thermodynamics " which says that " the entropy of an isolated
system always increases ". Another version: " No process is possible
in which the only result is the transfer of heat from a hotter to
a
colder body. It is possible some reversible process which is
unknown now ."
2.
Between 1870 - 1880 Ludwig Boltzmann said:
" Clausius is right. But I can add more to his entropy conception.
First.
According to Classic physics when an isolated thermodynamic
system comes to a thermal equilibrium all particles stop their
moving. From one hand it is correct. But the system cannot be
at thermal equilibrium (in the state of death) all the time.
The situation in the system must change.
Therefore I say that at the thermal equilibrium the entropy
(some unknown dark/potential energy ) of the system will
reach maximum and as a result , the thermal equilibrium
of the system will change.
Second.
I don't know how exactly the thermal equilibrium of the system
changes. But I can give probabilistic / statistical interpretation
of this changing process. I can write " The second principle of
thermodynamics" by a formula: S= k log W and this formula
says:" the entropy of the system is the collective result of
mechanical motions of all the particles (k)."
I will call it as " The second law of Thermodynamics."
3
In 1900 Max Planck said:
Clausius and Boltzmann are both right.
But all my life I worked almost exclusively on problems
related to thermodynamics. And I am sure that the " The second
law of Thermodynamics" , concerning entropy, is deeper and it
says more than is generally accepted. I am sure the Boltzmann's
probabilistic /statistical version of "The second law of
Thermodynamics " is not completed, is not final.
Please, look at the graph of the radiation curves of the " black
body".
They are very similar to those curves which are calculated
by Maxwell for the velocity (i.e. energy) distribution of gas
molecules in a closed container. Could this black body radiation
problem be studied in the same way as Maxwell's ideal gas....
....electromagnetic waves ? This problem of connection between
radiation of black body and Maxwell's Electrodynamics theory
doesn't give me peace. Maxwell's theory can tell everything
about the emission, absorption and propagation of the radiation,
but nothing about the energy distribution at thermal
equilibrium. What to do? How to be ?
After trying every possible approach using traditional
classical applications of the laws of thermodynamics
I was desperated. And I was forced to consider that the
relation between entropy, Boltzmann's probability version
and Maxwell's theory is possible to solve by suggestion ,
that energy is radiated and absorbed with discrete
individual quanta particle (E= hv). So, now I must write
" The second law of Thermodynamics " by formula:
hv = k log W.
But I was so surprised and sceptical of such interpretation the
entropy that I spent years trying to explain this result
in another , less revolutionary way. It was difficult for me
to accept this formula and to understand it essence .
It was hard for me to believe in my own discovery.
==================..
My conclusion.
How to understand this formula?
Which process does formula (hv = k logW ) describe ?
1.
In 1877 Boltzmann suggested that the energy/mass state
of a physical system (of ideal gas ) could be discreted.
This idea was written with formula: R/N=k. It means:
there are particles with energy/mass state (k) in physical
system of ideal gas . They dont move, they are in the
state of rest.
2.
In 1900 Planck followed Boltzmann's method of dividing.
Planck suggested that energy was radiated and absorbed
with discrete "energy elements" - " quantum of energy"-
- " Planck's action constant"- (h) . Its energy is: E=hv.
3.
In which reference frame does this process take place?
In thermodynamical reference frame of ideal gas and
black body (Laue called this model as Kirchhoff,s vacuum).
Now it is considered that these models are abstract ones which
do not exist in nature. On my opinion these models explain
the situation in the real Vacuum (T=0K) very well.
4.
For my opinion the formula (hv = k logW ) says:
a)
The reason of " entropy" , the source of thermal equilibrium's
fluctuation , the source of Vacuum fluctuation is an action of
the particle /electron, which has energy: E = hv.
b)
The process of Vacuum fluctuation depends on collective
motions of all particles (k) and will be successful if enough
statistical quantity of Boltzmann's particles ( k logW)
surround the electron.
c)
Which process does the formula (hv = k logW ) say about ?
This formula explains the beginning conditions of gravitation,
the beginning conditions of star formation.
( The article of star formation is posted on this site.)
d)
One physicist said :" The entropy is only a shadow of energy".
Maybe now somebody can understand why entropy is a shadow.
And maybe now somebody will understand why
" The Law of conservation and transformation of energy"
is also correct for thermodynamic system.
===========..
P.S.
It took me only two month to write this brief article.
Plus about three years searching for the key of entropy problem.
Plus about twenty-three years trying to understand the essence
of physical laws and formulas.
==============..
Best wishes.

"socratus" wrote in message
...
| Entropy.
| 1.
| Henry Poincare named the conception of "entropy "
| as a " surprising abstract ".
| 2.
| L. Landau (Dau) wrote:
| " A question about the physical basis of the
| entropy monotonous increasing law remains open ".
| 3.
| The famous mathematician John von Neumann said to
| "the father of information theory" Claude Shannon:
| " Name it "entropy" then in discussions
| you will receive solid advantage, because
| nobody knows, what "entropy" basically is ".
| =============..

Since nobody knows what "entropy" basically is, nobody can sensibly
agree or disagree with your opinion of what it is. You are merely ranting.

I have received an email ( comment on my article
Entropy / My opinion / ) from " HFAL"

" about entropia mail "

hi israsad.
I saw your email and thought very good and important.
In the formula that s = klogW, you put entropy like energy..
But if you look to the Clausius inequality you see that entropy is
energy
divided per temperature.
So the formula hv = klogW is hv = kT logW I think.
............................................
..........................................
HFAL
===========..
My answer:
The formula hv = klogW -- hv = kT logW
describes the possibility of realization of macro state from
micro state. This formula explains the beginning conditions
of gravitation, the beginning conditions of star formation.
1.
hv = klogW.
hv kT logW.
hv kT.
2.
hv -- He II -- He I --
( P. Kapitza , L. Landau , E.L. Andronikashvili theories).
3.
Plasma reaction... --
4.
Thermonuclear reactions ...--......etc.
============..
Best wishes.

Two different opinions about Entropy.
===============================
I have received two emails.
1.
Dear Socratus,
I realize that you sent a brief attempt to describe your search
for understanding of a difficult subject.

I am knowledgeable about Nonequilibrium Superconductivity
from my work in the 1970's. There was a thirty year gap
between my studying Statistical Mechanics in graduate school
and teaching it to upper-level undergraduates. I am teaching
thermodynamics right now as three chapters of an introductory
sequence.
.........................................
...................................
With the development of quantum mechanics, we have both theory
and experiments that show that E=hf is the energy delivered in
packets by wavelike particles of frequency f.
(The frequency is often written as "nu" which I take to be your "v".)
This energy is a different kind of quantity than Boltzmann's
expression for the entropy S = k_B log(*Omega*).
You should NOT set them equal.
E has units of Joules and S has units of Joules/Kelvin.
(Note the 1/T in the thermodynamic definition of S.)
Don't try to understand a relationship that is not correct!

B. S.
Professor of Physics
Boston University
2.
Dear Israel Sadovnik,
...............................................
.................................................. ...
I am, at this moment, working on a statistical mechanics section of a
text.
At the core of this is, of course, the second law.
I learn more about the second law almost my the day.
I find it particularly distasteful when people try to reduce this
to a statement about the number of quantum states,
as American advocates of "Thermal Physics" try to.
......................................
............................
C. H.
Professor of Physics
Goshen College
=================....
I want to explain these two classic opinions.


1.
So, B. S. says to me:
The solution of entropy (its reversion: when heat can go from
cold to hot ) is only probabilistic/statistical: S= k log W.
Don't try to understand it in another way.
You should NOT set E=hv (E=hf) equal to the klogW.
Don't try to understand a relationship that is not correct!
In another words B. S. says:
We shall never know what was befo an egg or a hen.
It is only probabilistic/statistical solution.
I don't agree with this opinion. Why?
Take, for example, the " big bang " theory.
According to this theory our Universe exists for 13 ( +)
billion years. But to create a child from a cell (zigota)
in only 280 days according to probabilistic/statistical
theory is not possible. This process will take, maybe,
more then 13 ( +) billion years. So, we can understand
what the pregnant woman was before the " big bang ". And
to answer on the question:" what was befo an egg or a hen ?"
we must only look at the beginning, in the Vacuum.
2.
C. H. hopes that there is a dipper explanation of the Entropy.
My opinion.
In 1915 Einstein has finished his GRT.
In 1916 K. Schwarzschild described gravitational field,
creating with static sphere having constant mass.
In 1963 P. P. Kerr described gravitational field, creating
with static rotating sphere having constant mass.
In 1965 P.P. Kerr and E.T. Newman described gravitational
field, creating with static rotating sphere having constant
mass and electrical charge.
So, when I put E=hv (hf) in the Boltzmann's expression for
the entropy S = k logW (*Omega*) it is not heretical idea.
So, the relationship between hv (hf) and k logW is possible
and correct.
================...
Questions:
1.
What is heat?
Heat is the collective result of mechanical motion
and friction of all the particles .
This process is described with Boltzmann's
probabilistic /statistical formula: S= k log W.
2.
What produces heat?
The energy E=hv (hf) produces heat, setting in mechanical
motion and friction of all particles. This fact is described with
Planck formula: hv = klogW.
3.
Thanks to Entropy the homogeneous Vacuum is broken.
Thanks to Entropy the micro process changes into
macro process.
Thanks to Entropy the stars formation takes place.
Thanks to Entropy the process of creating elements is take place.
Thanks to Entropy the process of evolution is going.
4.
Why is " The second law of Thermodynamics"
so universal? Because it is based on
" The Law of conservation and transformation of energy"
And this law is not the simple accounting solution of debit and
credit.
The sense of this law is dipper and it says more than is usually
accepted.
========================..
============..
Best wishes.

Thanks to: " HFAL", " Bored chemist", Bill Skocpol and Jim
Whitescarver
I corrected and wrote this article.

Entropy. / My opinion /.
=======...
1.
Henry Poincare named the conception of "entropy "
as a " surprising abstract ".
2.
Lev Landau (Dau) wrote:
" A question about the physical basis of the
entropy monotonous increasing law remains open ".
3.
The famous mathematician John von Neumann said to
"the father of information theory" Claude Shannon:
" Name it "entropy" then in discussions
you will receive solid advantage, because
nobody knows, what "entropy" basically is ".
=============..
1.
Between 1850 - 1865 Rudolf Clausius published a paper
in which he called " The energy conservation law" as
" The first law of thermodynamics". But in our nature the
heat always flows from the higher temperature to the
lower one and never back. In our everyday life we don't see
the heat itself rises from cold to hot. So, it seemed that
in thermodynamics " The energy conservation law"
wasn’t kept, this law was broken. But Clausius had another
opinion. He thought: I know people believe that this process is
irreversible, but I am sure that " The energy conservation law"
is universal law and it must be correct also for thermodynamic
process. So, how can I save this law ?
Probably, in the thermodynamic process there is something
that we don't know. Maybe, there is some degradation
of the total energy in the system which never disappears .
Perhaps, there is some non-useful heat, some unseen process ,
some unknown dark energy , some another form of potential
energy/heat itself which can transform heat from the cold
body to the warm one. I will call this conception as " entropy"
and as it is not a law I take it as " The second principle
of thermodynamics " which says that " the entropy of an isolated
system always increases ". Another version: " No process is possible
in which the only result is the transfer of heat from a hotter to
a
colder body. It is possible some reversible process which is
unknown now ."
2.
Between 1870 - 1880 Ludwig Boltzmann said:
" Clausius is right. But I can add more to his entropy conception.
First.
According to Classic physics when an isolated thermodynamic
system comes to a thermal equilibrium all particles stop their
moving. From one hand it is correct. But the system cannot be
at thermal equilibrium (in the state of thermo death) all the time.
The situation in the system must change.
Therefore I say that at the thermal equilibrium the entropy
(some unknown dark/potential energy ) of the system will
reach maximum and as a result , the thermal equilibrium
of the system will change.
Second.
I don't know how exactly the thermal equilibrium of the system
changes. But I can give probabilistic / statistical interpretation
of this changing process. I can write " The second principle of
thermodynamics" by a formula: S= k log W and this formula
says:" the entropy ( heat) of the system is the collective result of
mechanical motion and friction of all the particles (k)."
I will call it as " The second law of Thermodynamics."
3
In 1900 Max Planck said:
Clausius and Boltzmann are both right.
But all my life I worked almost exclusively on problems
related to thermodynamics. And I am sure that the " The second
law of Thermodynamics" , concerning entropy, is deeper and it
says more than is generally accepted. I am sure the Boltzmann's
probabilistic /statistical version of "The second law of
Thermodynamics " is not completed, is not final.
Please, look at the graph of the radiation curves of the " black
body".
They are very similar to those curves which are calculated
by Maxwell for the velocity (i.e. energy) distribution of gas
molecules in a closed container. Could this black body radiation
problem be studied in the same way as Maxwell's ideal gas....
...electromagnetic waves ? This problem of connection between
radiation of black body and Maxwell's Electrodynamics theory
doesn't give me peace. Maxwell's theory can tell everything
about the emission, absorption and propagation of the radiation,
but nothing about the energy distribution at thermal
equilibrium. What to do? How to be ?
After trying every possible approach using traditional
classical applications of the laws of thermodynamics
I was desperated. And I was forced to consider that the
relation between entropy, Boltzmann's probability version
and Maxwell's theory is possible to solve by suggestion ,
that energy is radiated and absorbed with discrete
individual quanta particle (E= hv). So, now I must write
" The second law of Thermodynamics " by formula:
hv = k log W.
But if I look to the Clausius inequality I see that entropy
is energy divided per temperature.
So the formula hv = klogW is hv = kT logW I think.

I was so surprised and sceptical of such interpretation the
entropy that I spent years trying to explain this result
in another , less revolutionary way. It was difficult for me
to accept this formula and to understand it essence .
It was hard for me to believe in my own discovery.
==================..
My conclusion.
How to understand this formula?
Which process does formula (hv = kT logW ) describe ?
1.
In 1877 Boltzmann suggested that the energy/mass state
of a physical system (of ideal gas ) could be discreted.
This idea was written with formula: R/N=k. It means:
there are particles with energy/mass state (k) in physical
system of ideal gas . They dont move, they are in the
state of rest.
2.
In 1900 Planck followed Boltzmann's method of dividing.
Planck suggested that energy was radiated and absorbed
with discrete "energy elements" - " quantum of energy"-
- " Planck's action constant"- (h) . This fact means:
electron produces heat, setting in mechanical motion and
friction all particles. This fact is described with Planck's
formula: hv = kTlogW.
3.
In which reference frame does this process take place?
In thermodynamical reference frame of ideal gas and
black body (M. Laue called this model as Kirchhoff,s vacuum).
Now it is considered that these models are abstract ones which
do not exist in nature. On my opinion these models explain
the situation in the real Vacuum (T=0K) very well.
4.
For my opinion the formula (hv = kT logW ) says:
a)
The reason of " entropy" , the source of thermal equilibrium's
fluctuation , the source of Vacuum fluctuation is an action of
the particle /electron, which has energy: E = hv (hf).
b)
The process of Vacuum fluctuation depends on collective
motions of all particles (k) and will be successful if enough
statistical quantity of Boltzmann's particles ( kT logW)
surround the electron.
c)
Which process does the formula (hv = kT logW ) say about ?
This formula describes the possibility of realization of
macro state from micro state. This formula explains
the beginning conditions of gravitation,
the beginning conditions of star formation.
1.
hv = kT logW.
hv kT logW.
hv kT.
2.
hv -- He II -- He I --
( P. Kapitza , L. Landau , E.L. Andronikashvili theories).
(Superconductivity, superfluidity.)
3.
Plasma reaction... --
4.
Thermonuclear reactions ...--......etc.

d)
Thanks to Entropy the homogeneous Vacuum is broken.
Thanks to Entropy the micro process changes into
macro process.
Thanks to Entropy the stars formation takes place.
Thanks to Entropy " the ultraviolet catastrophe" is absent.
Thanks to Entropy our Milky Way doesn't change into radiation.
Thanks to Entropy the process of creating elements takes place.
Thanks to Entropy the process of evolution is going.
e)
One physicist said :" The entropy is only a shadow of energy“.
Maybe now somebody can understand why entropy is a shadow.
And maybe now somebody will understand why
" The Law of conservation and transformation of energy"
is also correct for thermodynamic system.
f)
Why is " The second law of Thermodynamics"
so universal? Because it is based on
" The Law of conservation and transformation of energy"
And this law is not the simple accounting solution of debit and
credit.
The sense of this law is dipper and it says more than is usually
accepted.
===========..
P.S.
It took me about three months to write this brief article.
Plus about three years searching for the key of entropy problem.
Plus about twenty-three years trying to understand the essence
of physical laws and formulas.
==============..
Best wishes.
Israel Socratus.
===============================
# [A law] is more impressive the greater the simplicity of its
premises, the more different are the kinds of things it relates, and
the more extended its range of applicability. Therefore, the deep
impression which classical thermodynamics made on me. It is the only
physical theory of universal content, which I am convinced, that
within the framework of applicability of its basic concepts will never
be overthrown.
/ Albert Einstein/

# The law that entropy always increases -- the second law of
thermodynamics -- holds I think, the supreme position among the laws
of Nature. If someone points out to you that your pet theory of the
universe is in disagreement with Maxwell's equations - then so much
worse for Maxwell equations. If it is found to be contradicted by
observation - well these experimentalists do bungle things sometimes.
But if your theory is found to be against the second law of
Thermodynamics, I can give you no hope; there is nothing for it but to
collapse in deepest humiliation.
/ Sir Arthur Stanley Eddington /
============================...