wrote:

On Feb 27, 10:33 am, Roy Jose Lorr wrote:

Mary Hogan wrote:


"Roy Jose Lorr" wrote in message
om...

It is regrettable how much of Written Torah you are prepared to ignore
in pursuit of rabbinical enlightenment.

I don't make a decision without Torah. You don't understand the sense
of hunger that I have. You don't understand the Talmud. I followed
blindly after a deadgod, and halfbaked lying teachers with an agenda the
size of the universe. What I found in the Talmud are people also in
love with Ha Kodesh Baruch Hu, but people who have refined their
character to the point where there baser instinct has been put in its
rightful place.

What you find in talmud is the abandonment of Written Torah. Sadly,
talmud is an appeal to baser desires and is part of the reason why Jews
remain in exile.


The only reason, the only honest reason you don't like Talmud, yeshiva
is because you would have to "give something up." In truth you are
imprisoned in a cookie world who thinks it is "all that," but in truth
is just one lemming after another wasting his time.

Take time to think on why you accuse others of your own crimes.


I presume she means cookie-cutter world, and with that change, her
statement shows great insight. Indeed, the process ontology of
progressive actual entities of nature could be negatively
characterized in the way that she does. Indeed, however, it is the
clue to the answer of your query, Roy. You see, the Standard Model is
still very Einsteinian insofar as it suppresses the actual human
experience which necessarily involves the passage of time and the
present moment of time. It posits an actually existeing objective
world, indepenedent of human experience. Alfred North Whitehead
denies the existence of such a world. He declares the Reformed
Subjectivist Principle: Apart from the experience of subjects there
is nothing, nothing, nothing, bare nothingness! Whitehead's claim is
that there is something about the logic of human experience that
precludes the positing of an objectively existing world. Such an
imagined something does not and cannot exist and is therefore
nothing. Whitehead's philosophy is in fact fully consistent with the
Creatio ex Nihilo affirmed by the Jewish sages. So, again, Mary's
refusal is in fact just her ignorance of the very HaShem she
hypocritically professes.

In terms of physics, the upshot is that the world of protons,
neutrons, and electrons is quite unreal. It will be found to cancel
itself out. It will turn out that what does exist is a much more
subtle process involving the third family in an essential way that
provides the basis for subjective experience. This is concealed in
additive unification, but fully present in the scheme of radical
unification proposed by Heisenberg and Duerr.

The rabbis say the world was made for man. I believe man was made for
the world. Meaning the world is a physical entity with or without man.

Artful wrote:

wrote in message
...

On Feb 27, 10:33 am, Roy Jose Lorr wrote:

Mary Hogan wrote:

"Roy Jose Lorr" wrote in message
...

It is regrettable how much of Written Torah you are prepared to
ignore
in pursuit of rabbinical enlightenment.

I don't make a decision without Torah. You don't understand the sense
of hunger that I have. You don't understand the Talmud. I followed
blindly after a deadgod, and halfbaked lying teachers with an
agenda the
size of the universe. What I found in the Talmud are people also in
love with Ha Kodesh Baruch Hu, but people who have refined their
character to the point where there baser instinct has been put in its
rightful place.

What you find in talmud is the abandonment of Written Torah. Sadly,
talmud is an appeal to baser desires and is part of the reason why Jews
remain in exile.


The only reason, the only honest reason you don't like Talmud, yeshiva
is because you would have to "give something up." In truth you are
imprisoned in a cookie world who thinks it is "all that," but in truth
is just one lemming after another wasting his time.

Take time to think on why you accuse others of your own crimes.


I presume she means cookie-cutter world, and with that change, her
statement shows great insight. Indeed, the process ontology of
progressive actual entities of nature could be negatively
characterized in the way that she does. Indeed, however, it is the
clue to the answer of your query, Roy. You see, the Standard Model is
still very Einsteinian insofar as it suppresses the actual human
experience which necessarily involves the passage of time and the
present moment of time. It posits an actually existeing objective
world, indepenedent of human experience. Alfred North Whitehead
denies the existence of such a world. He declares the Reformed
Subjectivist Principle: Apart from the experience of subjects there
is nothing, nothing, nothing, bare nothingness! Whitehead's claim is
that there is something about the logic of human experience that
precludes the positing of an objectively existing world. Such an
imagined something does not and cannot exist and is therefore
nothing. Whitehead's philosophy is in fact fully consistent with the
Creatio ex Nihilo affirmed by the Jewish sages. So, again, Mary's
refusal is in fact just her ignorance of the very HaShem she
hypocritically professes.


Its amazing what sort of crap people can come up with when they start
playing with philosophy. It must be so much fun not having to deal with
the real world and play games of make-believe instead.

That's what humans do.

On Feb 27, 4:50*pm, Roy Jose Lorr wrote:
Artful wrote:
wrote in message
...

On Feb 27, 10:33 am, Roy Jose Lorr wrote:

Mary Hogan wrote:

"Roy Jose Lorr" wrote in message
...

It is regrettable how much of Written Torah you are prepared to
ignore
in pursuit of rabbinical enlightenment.

I don't make a decision without Torah. You don't understand the sense
of hunger that I have. You don't understand the Talmud. I followed
blindly after a deadgod, and halfbaked lying teachers with an
agenda the
size of the universe. What I found in the Talmud are people also in
love with Ha Kodesh Baruch Hu, but people who have refined their
character to the point where there baser instinct has been put in its
rightful place.

What you find in talmud is the abandonment of Written Torah. Sadly,
talmud is an appeal to baser desires and is part of the reason why Jews
remain in exile.

The only reason, the only honest reason you don't like Talmud, yeshiva
is because you would have to "give something up." In truth you are
imprisoned in a cookie world who thinks it is "all that," but in truth
is just one lemming after another wasting his time.

Take time to think on why you accuse others of your own crimes.

I presume she means cookie-cutter world, and with that change, her
statement shows great insight. *Indeed, the process ontology of
progressive actual entities of nature could be negatively
characterized in the way that she does. *Indeed, however, it is the
clue to the answer of your query, Roy. *You see, the Standard Model is
still very Einsteinian insofar as it suppresses the actual human
experience which necessarily involves the passage of time and the
present moment of time. *It posits an actually existeing objective
world, indepenedent of human experience. *Alfred North Whitehead
denies the existence of such a world. *He declares the Reformed
Subjectivist Principle: *Apart from the experience of subjects there
is nothing, nothing, nothing, bare nothingness! *Whitehead's claim is
that there is something about the logic of human experience that
precludes the positing of an objectively existing world. *Such an
imagined something does not and cannot exist and is therefore
nothing. *Whitehead's philosophy is in fact fully consistent with the
Creatio ex Nihilo affirmed by the Jewish sages. *So, again, Mary's
refusal is in fact just her ignorance of the very HaShem she
hypocritically professes.

Its amazing what sort of crap people can come up with when they start
playing with philosophy. *It must be so much fun not having to deal with
the real world and play games of make-believe instead.

That's what humans do.

And insofar as they do, they are Godlike.

On Feb 27, 3:13*pm, "Artful" wrote:
wrote in message

...





On Feb 27, 2:37 pm, "Artful" wrote:
wrote in message

...

On Feb 27, 10:33 am, Roy Jose Lorr wrote:
Mary Hogan wrote:

"Roy Jose Lorr" wrote in message
...

It is regrettable how much of Written Torah you are prepared to
ignore
in pursuit of rabbinical enlightenment.

I don't make a decision without Torah. You don't understand the
sense
of hunger that I have. You don't understand the Talmud. I followed
blindly after a deadgod, and halfbaked lying teachers with an agenda
the
size of the universe. What I found in the Talmud are people also in
love with Ha Kodesh Baruch Hu, but people who have refined their
character to the point where there baser instinct has been put in
its
rightful place.

What you find in talmud is the abandonment of Written Torah. Sadly,
talmud is an appeal to baser desires and is part of the reason why
Jews
remain in exile.

The only reason, the only honest reason you don't like Talmud,
yeshiva
is because you would have to "give something up." In truth you are
imprisoned in a cookie world who thinks it is "all that," but in
truth
is just one lemming after another wasting his time.

Take time to think on why you accuse others of your own crimes.

I presume she means cookie-cutter world, and with that change, her
statement shows great insight. Indeed, the process ontology of
progressive actual entities of nature could be negatively
characterized in the way that she does. Indeed, however, it is the
clue to the answer of your query, Roy. You see, the Standard Model is
still very Einsteinian insofar as it suppresses the actual human
experience which necessarily involves the passage of time and the
present moment of time. It posits an actually existeing objective
world, indepenedent of human experience. Alfred North Whitehead
denies the existence of such a world. He declares the Reformed
Subjectivist Principle: Apart from the experience of subjects there
is nothing, nothing, nothing, bare nothingness! Whitehead's claim is
that there is something about the logic of human experience that
precludes the positing of an objectively existing world. Such an
imagined something does not and cannot exist and is therefore
nothing. Whitehead's philosophy is in fact fully consistent with the
Creatio ex Nihilo affirmed by the Jewish sages. So, again, Mary's
refusal is in fact just her ignorance of the very HaShem she
hypocritically professes.

Its amazing what sort of crap people can come up with when they start
playing with philosophy. It must be so much fun not having to deal with
the
real world and play games of make-believe instead.

Not at all. *Speaking for my own speculations, these are the real
fruits of dealing with the real issues. *You cats in your ivory towers
are the ones with too much time on your hands. *You are so divided in
your thinking and commpartmentalization that you cannot even begin to
think clearly about anything.

Oh yeah .. speculating that the world doesn't exists and is just an illusion
is really worthwhile ... not.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

You dense, Art. It is a question of whether an entirely objective
world is illusory or whether the subjective world of human experience
is illusory. That is the real and meaningful choice now facing all
serious thinkers.

wrote in message
...
On Feb 27, 3:13 pm, "Artful" wrote:
wrote in message

...





On Feb 27, 2:37 pm, "Artful" wrote:
wrote in message

...

On Feb 27, 10:33 am, Roy Jose Lorr wrote:
Mary Hogan wrote:

"Roy Jose Lorr" wrote in message
...

It is regrettable how much of Written Torah you are prepared to
ignore
in pursuit of rabbinical enlightenment.

I don't make a decision without Torah. You don't understand the
sense
of hunger that I have. You don't understand the Talmud. I
followed
blindly after a deadgod, and halfbaked lying teachers with an
agenda
the
size of the universe. What I found in the Talmud are people also
in
love with Ha Kodesh Baruch Hu, but people who have refined their
character to the point where there baser instinct has been put in
its
rightful place.

What you find in talmud is the abandonment of Written Torah. Sadly,
talmud is an appeal to baser desires and is part of the reason why
Jews
remain in exile.

The only reason, the only honest reason you don't like Talmud,
yeshiva
is because you would have to "give something up." In truth you
are
imprisoned in a cookie world who thinks it is "all that," but in
truth
is just one lemming after another wasting his time.

Take time to think on why you accuse others of your own crimes.

I presume she means cookie-cutter world, and with that change, her
statement shows great insight. Indeed, the process ontology of
progressive actual entities of nature could be negatively
characterized in the way that she does. Indeed, however, it is the
clue to the answer of your query, Roy. You see, the Standard Model
is
still very Einsteinian insofar as it suppresses the actual human
experience which necessarily involves the passage of time and the
present moment of time. It posits an actually existeing objective
world, indepenedent of human experience. Alfred North Whitehead
denies the existence of such a world. He declares the Reformed
Subjectivist Principle: Apart from the experience of subjects there
is nothing, nothing, nothing, bare nothingness! Whitehead's claim is
that there is something about the logic of human experience that
precludes the positing of an objectively existing world. Such an
imagined something does not and cannot exist and is therefore
nothing. Whitehead's philosophy is in fact fully consistent with the
Creatio ex Nihilo affirmed by the Jewish sages. So, again, Mary's
refusal is in fact just her ignorance of the very HaShem she
hypocritically professes.

Its amazing what sort of crap people can come up with when they start
playing with philosophy. It must be so much fun not having to deal
with
the
real world and play games of make-believe instead.

Not at all. Speaking for my own speculations, these are the real
fruits of dealing with the real issues. You cats in your ivory towers
are the ones with too much time on your hands. You are so divided in
your thinking and commpartmentalization that you cannot even begin to
think clearly about anything.

Oh yeah .. speculating that the world doesn't exists and is just an
illusion
is really worthwhile ... not.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

You dense, Art.

Well .. if I wasn't I wouldn't be made of matter. But then, the objective
world doesn't exist, so maybe I'm not dense. maybe I don't exist. Maybe
none of us exists.

It is a question of whether an entirely objective
world is illusory

If it is objective it is not (by definition) illusory.

or whether the subjective world of human experience
is illusory.

If it is subjective it is (by definition) illusory.

That is the real and meaningful choice now facing all
serious thinkers.

No .. it's the preoccupation of ******s with nothing better to do.

On Feb 27, 6:58*pm, "Artful" wrote:
wrote in message

...

On Feb 27, 3:13 pm, "Artful" wrote:
wrote in message

....

On Feb 27, 2:37 pm, "Artful" wrote:
wrote in message

....

On Feb 27, 10:33 am, Roy Jose Lorr wrote:
Mary Hogan wrote:

"Roy Jose Lorr" wrote in message
...

It is regrettable how much of Written Torah you are prepared to
ignore
in pursuit of rabbinical enlightenment.

I don't make a decision without Torah. You don't understand the
sense
of hunger that I have. You don't understand the Talmud. I
followed
blindly after a deadgod, and halfbaked lying teachers with an
agenda
the
size of the universe. What I found in the Talmud are people also
in
love with Ha Kodesh Baruch Hu, but people who have refined their
character to the point where there baser instinct has been put in
its
rightful place.

What you find in talmud is the abandonment of Written Torah. Sadly,
talmud is an appeal to baser desires and is part of the reason why
Jews
remain in exile.

The only reason, the only honest reason you don't like Talmud,
yeshiva
is because you would have to "give something up." In truth you
are
imprisoned in a cookie world who thinks it is "all that," but in
truth
is just one lemming after another wasting his time.

Take time to think on why you accuse others of your own crimes.

I presume she means cookie-cutter world, and with that change, her
statement shows great insight. Indeed, the process ontology of
progressive actual entities of nature could be negatively
characterized in the way that she does. Indeed, however, it is the
clue to the answer of your query, Roy. You see, the Standard Model
is
still very Einsteinian insofar as it suppresses the actual human
experience which necessarily involves the passage of time and the
present moment of time. It posits an actually existeing objective
world, indepenedent of human experience. Alfred North Whitehead
denies the existence of such a world. He declares the Reformed
Subjectivist Principle: Apart from the experience of subjects there
is nothing, nothing, nothing, bare nothingness! Whitehead's claim is
that there is something about the logic of human experience that
precludes the positing of an objectively existing world. Such an
imagined something does not and cannot exist and is therefore
nothing. Whitehead's philosophy is in fact fully consistent with the
Creatio ex Nihilo affirmed by the Jewish sages. So, again, Mary's
refusal is in fact just her ignorance of the very HaShem she
hypocritically professes.

Its amazing what sort of crap people can come up with when they start
playing with philosophy. It must be so much fun not having to deal
with
the
real world and play games of make-believe instead.

Not at all. Speaking for my own speculations, these are the real
fruits of dealing with the real issues. You cats in your ivory towers
are the ones with too much time on your hands. You are so divided in
your thinking and commpartmentalization that you cannot even begin to
think clearly about anything.

Oh yeah .. speculating that the world doesn't exists and is just an
illusion
is really worthwhile ... not.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

You dense, Art.

Well .. if I wasn't I wouldn't be made of matter. *But then, the objective
world doesn't exist, so maybe I'm not dense. *maybe I don't exist. *Maybe
none of us exists.

It is a question of whether an entirely objective
world is illusory

If it is objective it is not (by definition) illusory.

or whether the subjective world of human experience
is illusory.

If it is subjective it is (by definition) illusory.

That is the real and meaningful choice now facing all
serious thinkers.

No .. it's the preoccupation of ******s with nothing better to do.

Your definitions are idiosyncratic and idiotic. Don't mind me. It's
your own eye you're pokin' out, not mine.

wrote in message
...
On Feb 27, 6:58 pm, "Artful" wrote:
wrote in message

...

On Feb 27, 3:13 pm, "Artful" wrote:
wrote in message

...

On Feb 27, 2:37 pm, "Artful" wrote:
wrote in message

...

On Feb 27, 10:33 am, Roy Jose Lorr wrote:
Mary Hogan wrote:

"Roy Jose Lorr" wrote in message
...

It is regrettable how much of Written Torah you are prepared
to
ignore
in pursuit of rabbinical enlightenment.

I don't make a decision without Torah. You don't understand
the
sense
of hunger that I have. You don't understand the Talmud. I
followed
blindly after a deadgod, and halfbaked lying teachers with an
agenda
the
size of the universe. What I found in the Talmud are people
also
in
love with Ha Kodesh Baruch Hu, but people who have refined
their
character to the point where there baser instinct has been put
in
its
rightful place.

What you find in talmud is the abandonment of Written Torah.
Sadly,
talmud is an appeal to baser desires and is part of the reason
why
Jews
remain in exile.

The only reason, the only honest reason you don't like Talmud,
yeshiva
is because you would have to "give something up." In truth you
are
imprisoned in a cookie world who thinks it is "all that," but
in
truth
is just one lemming after another wasting his time.

Take time to think on why you accuse others of your own crimes.

I presume she means cookie-cutter world, and with that change,
her
statement shows great insight. Indeed, the process ontology of
progressive actual entities of nature could be negatively
characterized in the way that she does. Indeed, however, it is
the
clue to the answer of your query, Roy. You see, the Standard
Model
is
still very Einsteinian insofar as it suppresses the actual human
experience which necessarily involves the passage of time and the
present moment of time. It posits an actually existeing objective
world, indepenedent of human experience. Alfred North Whitehead
denies the existence of such a world. He declares the Reformed
Subjectivist Principle: Apart from the experience of subjects
there
is nothing, nothing, nothing, bare nothingness! Whitehead's claim
is
that there is something about the logic of human experience that
precludes the positing of an objectively existing world. Such an
imagined something does not and cannot exist and is therefore
nothing. Whitehead's philosophy is in fact fully consistent with
the
Creatio ex Nihilo affirmed by the Jewish sages. So, again, Mary's
refusal is in fact just her ignorance of the very HaShem she
hypocritically professes.

Its amazing what sort of crap people can come up with when they
start
playing with philosophy. It must be so much fun not having to deal
with
the
real world and play games of make-believe instead.

Not at all. Speaking for my own speculations, these are the real
fruits of dealing with the real issues. You cats in your ivory
towers
are the ones with too much time on your hands. You are so divided in
your thinking and commpartmentalization that you cannot even begin
to
think clearly about anything.

Oh yeah .. speculating that the world doesn't exists and is just an
illusion
is really worthwhile ... not.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

You dense, Art.

Well .. if I wasn't I wouldn't be made of matter. But then, the objective
world doesn't exist, so maybe I'm not dense. maybe I don't exist. Maybe
none of us exists.

It is a question of whether an entirely objective
world is illusory

If it is objective it is not (by definition) illusory.

or whether the subjective world of human experience
is illusory.

If it is subjective it is (by definition) illusory.

That is the real and meaningful choice now facing all
serious thinkers.

No .. it's the preoccupation of ******s with nothing better to do.

Your definitions are idiosyncratic and idiotic.

That you think the usual meaning of the terms you are using is idiotic, then
that says more about you than me. You are simply playing silly word games.

Don't mind me. It's
your own eye you're pokin' out, not mine.

I'm not poking anything .. other than fun at so-called philosophers who
philosophize that reality doesn't exist. No matter how philosophically you
wrap up a load of rot .. it is still a load of rot. If this is how you
spend your time.. you're wasting it. But then .. its all just an illusion,
isn't it, so it doesn't really matter.

wrote:

On Feb 27, 4:50 pm, Roy Jose Lorr wrote:

Artful wrote:

wrote in message
...

On Feb 27, 10:33 am, Roy Jose Lorr wrote:

Mary Hogan wrote:

"Roy Jose Lorr" wrote in message
news:4e2dnbWC9NYnAljanZ2dnUVZ_vKunZ2d@comcas t.com...

It is regrettable how much of Written Torah you are prepared to

ignore

in pursuit of rabbinical enlightenment.

I don't make a decision without Torah. You don't understand the sense
of hunger that I have. You don't understand the Talmud. I followed
blindly after a deadgod, and halfbaked lying teachers with an

agenda the

size of the universe. What I found in the Talmud are people also in
love with Ha Kodesh Baruch Hu, but people who have refined their
character to the point where there baser instinct has been put in its
rightful place.

What you find in talmud is the abandonment of Written Torah. Sadly,
talmud is an appeal to baser desires and is part of the reason why Jews
remain in exile.

The only reason, the only honest reason you don't like Talmud, yeshiva
is because you would have to "give something up." In truth you are
imprisoned in a cookie world who thinks it is "all that," but in truth
is just one lemming after another wasting his time.

Take time to think on why you accuse others of your own crimes.

I presume she means cookie-cutter world, and with that change, her
statement shows great insight. Indeed, the process ontology of
progressive actual entities of nature could be negatively
characterized in the way that she does. Indeed, however, it is the
clue to the answer of your query, Roy. You see, the Standard Model is
still very Einsteinian insofar as it suppresses the actual human
experience which necessarily involves the passage of time and the
present moment of time. It posits an actually existeing objective
world, indepenedent of human experience. Alfred North Whitehead
denies the existence of such a world. He declares the Reformed
Subjectivist Principle: Apart from the experience of subjects there
is nothing, nothing, nothing, bare nothingness! Whitehead's claim is
that there is something about the logic of human experience that
precludes the positing of an objectively existing world. Such an
imagined something does not and cannot exist and is therefore
nothing. Whitehead's philosophy is in fact fully consistent with the
Creatio ex Nihilo affirmed by the Jewish sages. So, again, Mary's
refusal is in fact just her ignorance of the very HaShem she
hypocritically professes.

Its amazing what sort of crap people can come up with when they start
playing with philosophy. It must be so much fun not having to deal with
the real world and play games of make-believe instead.

That's what humans do.


And insofar as they do, they are Godlike.

So they pray.

On Feb 27, 7:20*pm, "Artful" wrote:
wrote in message

...

On Feb 27, 6:58 pm, "Artful" wrote:
wrote in message

....

On Feb 27, 3:13 pm, "Artful" wrote:
wrote in message

...

On Feb 27, 2:37 pm, "Artful" wrote:
wrote in message

...

On Feb 27, 10:33 am, Roy Jose Lorr wrote:
Mary Hogan wrote:

"Roy Jose Lorr" wrote in message
...

It is regrettable how much of Written Torah you are prepared
to
ignore
in pursuit of rabbinical enlightenment.

I don't make a decision without Torah. You don't understand
the
sense
of hunger that I have. You don't understand the Talmud. I
followed
blindly after a deadgod, and halfbaked lying teachers with an
agenda
the
size of the universe. What I found in the Talmud are people
also
in
love with Ha Kodesh Baruch Hu, but people who have refined
their
character to the point where there baser instinct has been put
in
its
rightful place.

What you find in talmud is the abandonment of Written Torah.
Sadly,
talmud is an appeal to baser desires and is part of the reason
why
Jews
remain in exile.

The only reason, the only honest reason you don't like Talmud,
yeshiva
is because you would have to "give something up." In truth you
are
imprisoned in a cookie world who thinks it is "all that," but
in
truth
is just one lemming after another wasting his time.

Take time to think on why you accuse others of your own crimes..

I presume she means cookie-cutter world, and with that change,
her
statement shows great insight. Indeed, the process ontology of
progressive actual entities of nature could be negatively
characterized in the way that she does. Indeed, however, it is
the
clue to the answer of your query, Roy. You see, the Standard
Model
is
still very Einsteinian insofar as it suppresses the actual human
experience which necessarily involves the passage of time and the
present moment of time. It posits an actually existeing objective
world, indepenedent of human experience. Alfred North Whitehead
denies the existence of such a world. He declares the Reformed
Subjectivist Principle: Apart from the experience of subjects
there
is nothing, nothing, nothing, bare nothingness! Whitehead's claim
is
that there is something about the logic of human experience that
precludes the positing of an objectively existing world. Such an
imagined something does not and cannot exist and is therefore
nothing. Whitehead's philosophy is in fact fully consistent with
the
Creatio ex Nihilo affirmed by the Jewish sages. So, again, Mary's
refusal is in fact just her ignorance of the very HaShem she
hypocritically professes.

Its amazing what sort of crap people can come up with when they
start
playing with philosophy. It must be so much fun not having to deal
with
the
real world and play games of make-believe instead.

Not at all. Speaking for my own speculations, these are the real
fruits of dealing with the real issues. You cats in your ivory
towers
are the ones with too much time on your hands. You are so divided in
your thinking and commpartmentalization that you cannot even begin
to
think clearly about anything.

Oh yeah .. speculating that the world doesn't exists and is just an
illusion
is really worthwhile ... not.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

You dense, Art.

Well .. if I wasn't I wouldn't be made of matter. But then, the objective
world doesn't exist, so maybe I'm not dense. maybe I don't exist. Maybe
none of us exists.

It is a question of whether an entirely objective
world is illusory

If it is objective it is not (by definition) illusory.

or whether the subjective world of human experience
is illusory.

If it is subjective it is (by definition) illusory.

That is the real and meaningful choice now facing all
serious thinkers.

No .. it's the preoccupation of ******s with nothing better to do.

Your definitions are idiosyncratic and idiotic.

That you think the usual meaning of the terms you are using is idiotic, then
that says more about you than me. *You are simply playing silly word games.

Don't mind me. *It's
your own eye you're pokin' out, not mine.

I'm not poking anything .. other than fun at so-called philosophers who
philosophize that reality doesn't exist. *No matter how philosophically you
wrap up a load of rot .. it is still a load of rot. *If this is how you
spend your time.. you're wasting it. *But then .. its all just an illusion,
isn't it, so it doesn't really matter.

No, it is all that matters. If you don't exist subjectively any more,
all of your experiences are invalidated to say the least, including
your imagining of an objective world. To be, to exist, is the whole
purpose of true religion. What does it accomplish if G-D exists and
you do not exist, Roy? As far as you are concerned, nothing at all
exists any more.

Moreover, the radical proposition that science itself has now suggests
is that there is no objective world, independent of man's existence
and experience. Such a world simply cancels itself out for a reason
that we do not yet understand. The discovery of the Higgs boson may
hold the key here to a deeper understanding. All particles gain mass
and become matter only through interaction with the Higgs boson,
according to the Standard Model. The Higgs boson is like water, ala
Thales. Water has always represented the subjective element, and so
the subjective underpinnings of the universe will be found in the
Higgs boson.

wrote in message
...
On Feb 27, 7:20 pm, "Artful" wrote:
wrote in message

...

On Feb 27, 6:58 pm, "Artful" wrote:
wrote in message

...

On Feb 27, 3:13 pm, "Artful" wrote:
wrote in message

...

On Feb 27, 2:37 pm, "Artful" wrote:
wrote in message

...

On Feb 27, 10:33 am, Roy Jose Lorr wrote:
Mary Hogan wrote:

"Roy Jose Lorr" wrote in message
...

It is regrettable how much of Written Torah you are
prepared
to
ignore
in pursuit of rabbinical enlightenment.

I don't make a decision without Torah. You don't understand
the
sense
of hunger that I have. You don't understand the Talmud. I
followed
blindly after a deadgod, and halfbaked lying teachers with
an
agenda
the
size of the universe. What I found in the Talmud are people
also
in
love with Ha Kodesh Baruch Hu, but people who have refined
their
character to the point where there baser instinct has been
put
in
its
rightful place.

What you find in talmud is the abandonment of Written Torah.
Sadly,
talmud is an appeal to baser desires and is part of the
reason
why
Jews
remain in exile.

The only reason, the only honest reason you don't like
Talmud,
yeshiva
is because you would have to "give something up." In truth
you
are
imprisoned in a cookie world who thinks it is "all that,"
but
in
truth
is just one lemming after another wasting his time.

Take time to think on why you accuse others of your own
crimes.

I presume she means cookie-cutter world, and with that change,
her
statement shows great insight. Indeed, the process ontology of
progressive actual entities of nature could be negatively
characterized in the way that she does. Indeed, however, it is
the
clue to the answer of your query, Roy. You see, the Standard
Model
is
still very Einsteinian insofar as it suppresses the actual
human
experience which necessarily involves the passage of time and
the
present moment of time. It posits an actually existeing
objective
world, indepenedent of human experience. Alfred North
Whitehead
denies the existence of such a world. He declares the Reformed
Subjectivist Principle: Apart from the experience of subjects
there
is nothing, nothing, nothing, bare nothingness! Whitehead's
claim
is
that there is something about the logic of human experience
that
precludes the positing of an objectively existing world. Such
an
imagined something does not and cannot exist and is therefore
nothing. Whitehead's philosophy is in fact fully consistent
with
the
Creatio ex Nihilo affirmed by the Jewish sages. So, again,
Mary's
refusal is in fact just her ignorance of the very HaShem she
hypocritically professes.

Its amazing what sort of crap people can come up with when they
start
playing with philosophy. It must be so much fun not having to
deal
with
the
real world and play games of make-believe instead.

Not at all. Speaking for my own speculations, these are the real
fruits of dealing with the real issues. You cats in your ivory
towers
are the ones with too much time on your hands. You are so divided
in
your thinking and commpartmentalization that you cannot even
begin
to
think clearly about anything.

Oh yeah .. speculating that the world doesn't exists and is just an
illusion
is really worthwhile ... not.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

You dense, Art.

Well .. if I wasn't I wouldn't be made of matter. But then, the
objective
world doesn't exist, so maybe I'm not dense. maybe I don't exist.
Maybe
none of us exists.

It is a question of whether an entirely objective
world is illusory

If it is objective it is not (by definition) illusory.

or whether the subjective world of human experience
is illusory.

If it is subjective it is (by definition) illusory.

That is the real and meaningful choice now facing all
serious thinkers.

No .. it's the preoccupation of ******s with nothing better to do.

Your definitions are idiosyncratic and idiotic.

That you think the usual meaning of the terms you are using is idiotic,
then
that says more about you than me. You are simply playing silly word
games.

Don't mind me. It's
your own eye you're pokin' out, not mine.

I'm not poking anything .. other than fun at so-called philosophers who
philosophize that reality doesn't exist. No matter how philosophically
you
wrap up a load of rot .. it is still a load of rot. If this is how you
spend your time.. you're wasting it. But then .. its all just an
illusion,
isn't it, so it doesn't really matter.

No, it is all that matters. If you don't exist subjectively any more,

Exist subjectively .. in what sense .. as part of my experience of myself,
or as part of someone else's experience of me?

all of your experiences are invalidated

Well .. if you are talking about my mind no longer existing no longer being
able to experience, or to recall experiences .. then yes .. they are gone.
I don't think that makes them invalid .. just no longer accessible.

to say the least, including
your imagining of an objective world.

So .. if I am unconscious or dead, I no longer experience myself, or the
objective world, and so no longer exist subjectively in my own mind (because
my mind no longer functions). But then, I wouldn't care, would I, in that
case.

To be, to exist, is the whole purpose of true religion.

So the purpose of a religion is to exist .. that seems a rather circular
definition.

What does it accomplish if G-D exists

What G-d is that?

and you do not exist, Roy?

But I do. And G-d doesn't. So there we go.

As far as you are concerned, nothing at all exists any more.

If I am dead on unconscious, the objective world doesn't matter to me any
more. Is this supposed to be some significant thinking on your part? I
hope you haven't taken too much time coming up with this.

Moreover, the radical proposition that science itself has now suggests
is that there is no objective world, independent of man's existence
and experience.

And what scientific proposal is that? Science is all about the objective ..
so a proposal that there is no objective renders science useless.

Such a world simply cancels itself out for a reason
that we do not yet understand.

You're talking philosophical bull**** now

The discovery of the Higgs boson may
hold the key here to a deeper understanding. All particles gain mass
and become matter only through interaction with the Higgs boson,
according to the Standard Model. The Higgs boson is like water, ala
Thales. Water has always represented the subjective element, and so
the subjective underpinnings of the universe will be found in the
Higgs boson.

Utter crap and nonsense. Is this how you spend you time? What a waste,