Dear saint7peter:

wrote in message
...
On Feb 26, 3:48 pm, Roy Jose Lorr wrote:
dlzc wrote:
....
Otherwise a perfectly meaningless use of the English
language. Are you considering running for the US
Presidential nomination?

English is my third language, what's your excuse?

He is an asshole.

Aren't you just the cutest little ray of sunshine?

And then you proceed on with your own personal line of "Shinola",
to further confuse.

David A. Smith

Mary Hogan wrote:


"Roy Jose Lorr" wrote in message
. ..

Mary Hogan wrote:


"Roy Jose Lorr" wrote in message
...

"Matter exists on the motion created by Nothingness drawing Matter
back into the Nothingness from whence it came."

Constructive comments in simple terms, pro and con will be appreciated.


I am not qualified for any debate about physics, and so I'm just
thinking out loud.

Time is missing from this.

Time is a human construct.



How?


Nothingness is void of time. It is a void.

Above.


Creation, is time so nothingness, which is void of time can't create.
Nothing cannot change definition in mid stream unless it is a rock band.

Above.



Light and darkness are missing.


It's like a rainy night, although your destination may be near you can't
see it. A clap of lightening will expose it, but the mind can get
confused again easily and lose track of the destination.

Is matter an illusion? It casts a shadow, it takes up space. So you
make this statement about matter and motion creation and nothingness. We
see matter in our dreams. We are matter in our dreams, and yet we aren't.

There is absolutely no nothingness. No such thing. Can't be.

How do you know this?

You can
use your senses to determine matter. Motion is just time through space,
so we're talking about time. And time is not what we think it is. Today
is the 26 of February. I see time like a spiral. Rav Dessler said: I
have heard from my teacher of blessed memory that we should not think of
time as passing over us, but rather ourselves as moving through time.
For example, there is really only one Shabbat, but we move thorugh the
weekly cycle and re-experience it week by week. It is our cyclic
progress through time. Nothing is random.

Define time.



How?

Nothingness seems to need an opposite. If there is matter, that is
something, then how can it be drawn into nothingness, without being
obliterated and non existent? Like Genesis 1:5 what is yom when the
sun wasn't created? Time.


Nothingness has its opposite: somethingness, which is matter.


That is something I need to think about. Wait a minute, you assume that
the opposite of nothingness is somethingness. To me that is arrogance.
I think the opposite of nothingness is evil. That void without Shechinah.

Then you believe the world is evil.




Matter is potential which exists on the motion (which requires time)
of everythingness (oneness) drawing
it back after the potential has either been wasted or refined into
everythingness from whence it came.


Since you're coming from a Biblical perspective then you must agree
with Genesis that God created somethingness from nothingness.


Tohu v Bohu, the Ramban is a bit over my head though.
The hule and all. The 4 elements are found together in mass. This is
and intriguing thought, But I really want to listen to Rabbi Eisemann's
Koheles right now. Be back later.




Nothing cannot draw because the term itself negates accomplishment of
any kind.


How do you know that nothingness cannot attract somethingness or that
somethingness does not repel nothingness?


I just have time on my hands and I'm blathering. But I do want to
think about this, even though it feels flawed.


What seems flawed to me is the kabbalistic perspective.

On Feb 26, 5:49*pm, "N:dlzc D:aol T:com \(dlzc\)"
wrote:
Dear saint7peter:

wrote in message

...
On Feb 26, 3:48 pm, Roy Jose Lorr wrote:

dlzc wrote:
...
Otherwise a perfectly meaningless use of the English
language. Are you considering running for the US
Presidential nomination?

English is my third language, what's your excuse?
He is an asshole.

Aren't you just the cutest little ray of sunshine?

And then you proceed on with your own personal line of "Shinola",
to further confuse.

David A. Smith

You can't refute anything I said, you little piece of turdola. Go
back to your toilet. Go back to your books. You are a hack. I am a
high level genius. That's that. Bye.

"N:dlzc D:aol T:com (dlzc)" wrote in message
...
Dear Roy Jose Lorr:

"Roy Jose Lorr" wrote in message
...
dlzc wrote:

Dear Roy Jose Lorr:

On Feb 26, 1:30 pm, Roy Jose Lorr wrote:

"Matter exists on the motion created by Nothingness
drawing Matter back into the Nothingness from whence
it came."

Constructive comments in simple terms, pro and con
will be appreciated.


It is not Science. It is verbal nonsense, with almost
no cognates in common with the Standard Model.

To which 'Standard Model' do you refer?

Cosmology.
http://www.astro.ucla.edu/~wright/cosmo_01.htm

"Nothingness" is not helpful.

Is matter not something? Is somethingness not
the opposite of nothingness, making nothingness
and somethingness an opposite pair: positive/negative, day/night,
backward/forward, etc.?

Again, "Nothingness" is not helpful. It is neither descriptive, nor does
it describe / circumscribe what "Matter" was before it "Became". Whatever
Matter was "after", it was "before". So "Nothingness" was not nothing.

Matter is diffusing, not being "drawn in".

Matter 'diffuses' in which direction, from where, to
where?

Ostensibly, "Past" to "Future". "Small and Hot" to "Diffuse and Cold".
"Few states" to "Maximum states".

Mass appears to derive from the System, not
(detectably) the Progenitor to the system.

How does matter derive from a system undetected?

The "derivation" (connection) is not obvious. The "derivation"
(connection) is not detectable, since all instruments similarly derive. I
did not know there were so many ways to misread a sentence.

Entirely possible that space, time (the
"motion"), and mass all derive from the System.

What is there in this statement that differs from
religious supposition?

Ask Ernst Mach. Or Einstein.

Otherwise a perfectly meaningless use of the
English language. Are you considering running
for the US Presidential nomination?

English is my third language, what's your excuse?

Your meaning is unclear. You need a thesaurus, for alternate words to
"Nothingness". It is very easy in any language to construct "completely
silly". Or "fortune cookie sayings".

David A. Smith


Ramban: Hashem brought into being from complete, absolute nihility and
exceedingly fine primary essence with practically no substance. But this
essence is the potential for bringing forth other things, ready to receive
form and to emerge from the potential to the actual.

The Greeks refer to this as ulh (hule). After this hule, Hashem did not
create anything hayesh mayin, anything out of nothing. rather He formed and
made things. He brought all things from the hule, endowed them with forms
and perfectedt them.

According to Ramban: the heavens and all that is in them are of one primary
substance, and the land and all that is in it are of one different primary
substance. v'Ha Kodesh Baruch Hu bara aylu shinayhem mayin. The Holy One
Blessed Is He, created both of these from nothing. These two things were
created from nothing and everything else in the universe is made from them.

Hule is called tohu which is related to the word tohay, regrets. Kiddushin
40b. Because tohu is an insignificant way to describe hule. tohu-emptiness.
Isaiah 34:11. These ropes are used to lay out a building, they are not an
actual part of the structure. Isaiah 40:17, tohu is a step beyond nihility,
yet it is not a substantive entity.

SEFER YETZIRAH 2:6 Hashem formed a substance from tohu, and thus made a
"notining" into a "something."

wrote:

On Feb 26, 3:48 pm, Roy Jose Lorr wrote:

dlzc wrote:

Dear Roy Jose Lorr:

On Feb 26, 1:30 pm, Roy Jose Lorr wrote:

"Matter exists on the motion created by Nothingness
drawing Matter back into the Nothingness from whence
it came."

Constructive comments in simple terms, pro and con
will be appreciated.

It is not Science. It is verbal nonsense, with almost no cognates in
common with the Standard Model.

To which 'Standard Model' do you refer?




"Nothingness" is not helpful.

Is matter not something? Is somethingness not the opposite of
nothingness, making nothingness and somethingness an opposite pair:
positive/negative, day/night, backward/forward, etc.?


Yes, you are quite right, Roy. In fact, the particles of the Standard
Model span the space of something/nothing. The first family is the
something and the third family is the nothing - it hardly appears at
all in ordinary matter. It is the so-called subjectivist "illusion,"
in which time also plays a part, according to Einstein. Our
scientific friend has his scientific head way up his scientific ass.

The word 'particles' puts them in the realm of somethingness. As for
time, it is a human construct made from within the the same realm.



Matter is diffusing, not being "drawn


in".

Matter 'diffuses' in which direction, from where, to where?

Mass appears to derive from the System, not (detectably) the


Progenitor to the system.

How does matter derive from a system undetected?

Entirely possible that space, time (the


"motion"), and mass all derive from the System.

What is there in this statement that differs from religious supposition?


Otherwise a perfectly meaningless use of the English language. Are
you considering running for the US Presidential nomination?

English is my third language, what's your excuse?


He is an asshole. However, there is a huge jump from acknowledging
nothingness as the subjectivist illusion and your assertion that it
could become all-powerful and absorb the something. Rather, physics
pulls in the opposite direction and absorbs the nothing into the
something. However, this push and pull is just the conflict of G-d
and matter that drove HaShem to madness. Jews want to paint Jesus as
the madman, but they are projecting a mile a minute. It is JHVH, the
G-d of the old testament, who was driven mad by His opposite, the Hyle
or Matter.

When you say particles I assume them to be part of the material
somethingness. It is only material/energy that is transient. When it
expires where does it go and why does it go there? So far my intuition
tells me that lost matter is not lost but is retired/returned to
nothingness from which it was created. Eventually, dead is dead with no
waste/garbage being left behind.

I haven't studied this Ramban since 2004, Roy. There is so little time in
this life, and so much beauty to tap into.

Rabbi Nechunia ben Hakaneh, Sefer HaBahir. What is meant by what is
written, and the land was tohu and bohu? Emptiness and void. That it was
tohu beforehand. And what is meant by bohu? The Torah is telling us that
it was tohu at first and what is tohu? Something that brings astonishment to
people andthen it changed to bohu. And what is bohu? Something that has
substance, as if it were written, bet vav hey vav alef, there is substance
in it.

So according to Ramban: In the beginning, God created out of nothing the
heavens, for He brought their primary matter (hule) into existence out of
nothing. and the earth, for He brought its primary matter (hule) into
existence out of nothing as well.

Tohu, matter without substance and subsequently it was bohu, for He endowed
it with form.

After this Scripture elaborates further that this form included the form of
four elements, fire, water, earth and air.


shhaym ha aish
vhamayim
vheyawfawr
vhawahveer

Haaretz, the earht, in the earth was tohu and bohu, encompasses these for
elements.

Dear Roy Jose Lorr:

"Roy Jose Lorr" wrote in message
. ..
....
Mary Hogan wrote:
"Roy Jose Lorr" wrote in message
...

"Matter exists on the motion created by
Nothingness drawing Matter back into
the Nothingness from whence it came."

I am not qualified for any debate about
physics, and so I'm just thinking out loud.

Time is missing from this.

Time is a human construct.

You used the word "motion". Please define this word, without
using either "space" or "time".

David A. Smith

"N:dlzc D:aol T:com (dlzc)" wrote in message
...
Dear Roy Jose Lorr:

"Roy Jose Lorr" wrote in message
. ..
...
Mary Hogan wrote:
"Roy Jose Lorr" wrote in message
...

"Matter exists on the motion created by
Nothingness drawing Matter back into
the Nothingness from whence it came."

I am not qualified for any debate about
physics, and so I'm just thinking out loud.

Time is missing from this.

Time is a human construct.

You used the word "motion". Please define this word, without using either
"space" or "time".

David A. Smith



You can't define motion without space or time. I think Rabbi Wolfson had a
great class about this, which I listened to over and over, and I guess I
wasn't ready for it.

On Feb 26, 6:43*pm, "Mary Hogan" wrote:
I haven't studied this Ramban since 2004, Roy. *There is so little time in
this life, and so much beauty to tap into.

So much fool's gold and so little discernment of what is true and what
is false.

The essential point here is that there is a tension between the
objective view of science and the subjective view of religion. This
reflects a real conflict between G-d and Hyle, or matter personified.
There are real conflicts in the Godhead, between the sexual polarities
of G-d and between the whole idea of G-d vs. matter. These conflicts
drove HaShem to madness, and the old testament is the record of His
struggle with that madness. The new testament aims at a better
resolution of the opposites, in part by accepting the notion of a
fully Androgynous G-D.

N:dlzc D:aol T:com (dlzc) wrote:

Dear Roy Jose Lorr:

"Roy Jose Lorr" wrote in message
...

dlzc wrote:


Dear Roy Jose Lorr:

On Feb 26, 1:30 pm, Roy Jose Lorr wrote:


"Matter exists on the motion created by Nothingness
drawing Matter back into the Nothingness from whence
it came."

Constructive comments in simple terms, pro and con
will be appreciated.


It is not Science. It is verbal nonsense, with almost
no cognates in common with the Standard Model.

To which 'Standard Model' do you refer?


Cosmology.
http://www.astro.ucla.edu/~wright/cosmo_01.htm

Refined religious speculation, nothing more.



"Nothingness" is not helpful.

Is matter not something? Is somethingness not
the opposite of nothingness, making nothingness
and somethingness an opposite pair: positive/negative,
day/night, backward/forward, etc.?


Again, "Nothingness" is not helpful. It is neither descriptive,
nor does it describe / circumscribe what "Matter" was before it
"Became". Whatever Matter was "after", it was "before". So
"Nothingness" was not nothing.

What is there in this statement that differs from religious supposition?
My guide tells me that matter was made from nothingness. So far I've
not seen one scintilla of evidence that this explanation is any less
viable than any other story humans have come up with.



Matter is diffusing, not being "drawn in".

Matter 'diffuses' in which direction, from where, to
where?


Ostensibly, "Past" to "Future". "Small and Hot" to "Diffuse and
Cold". "Few states" to "Maximum states".

Can you describe an actual path from past to future?

Can you describe "Small and Hot" to "Diffuse and
Cold" and "Few states" to "Maximum states" in simple terms?



Mass appears to derive from the System, not

(detectably) the Progenitor to the system.

How does matter derive from a system undetected?


The "derivation" (connection) is not obvious. The "derivation"
(connection) is not detectable, since all instruments similarly
derive. I did not know there were so many ways to misread a
sentence.

If the connection is not [obvious], what then is it? Or did I also
misread the above?



Entirely possible that space, time (the
"motion"), and mass all derive from the System.

What is there in this statement that differs from
religious supposition?


Ask Ernst Mach. Or Einstein.

Is that the same as asking God?



Otherwise a perfectly meaningless use of the
English language. Are you considering running
for the US Presidential nomination?

English is my third language, what's your excuse?


Your meaning is unclear. You need a thesaurus, for alternate
words to "Nothingness". It is very easy in any language to
construct "completely silly". Or "fortune cookie sayings".

Explain why the word "nothingness" is a 'silly fortune cookie saying'.