Waves, virtually by definition, travel at the rate at which change (in
the configuration of a given medium) is propagated in that medium.

Thus it follows -- almost from definition -- that the speed of
gravitational waves (a la Einstein) is the same as the "speed of
gravity".

And if the former is in fact c, so must the latter be.

"Sancho's Atomic Trousers" schrieb im
Newsbeitrag ups.com...
Waves, virtually by definition, travel at the
rate at which change (in the configuration
of a given medium) is propagated in that
medium.

Thus it follows -- almost from definition --
that the speed of gravitational waves (a la
Einstein) is the same as the "speed of
gravity".

And if the former is in fact c, so must the
latter be.

No.
The "speed" of gravitation can experimentally
be observed by the speed that SGR transports
energy & momentum at least at multi-c (if not
even simultaneously). Cf Substance-relevant
Gravitational Resonance explained (1 page) in
www.sources.li/SGR-e.pdf.

Sancho's Atomic Trousers wrote:

Waves, virtually by definition,

already wrong

travel at the rate at which change (in
the configuration of a given medium) is propagated in that medium.

Tell us why longitudinal and transverse waves in an elastic medium
typically travel at different velocities.

Thus it follows -- almost from definition -- that the speed of
gravitational waves (a la Einstein) is the same as the "speed of
gravity".

Idiot.

And if the former is in fact c, so must the latter be.

Lightspeed is set by the permittivity and permeability of the vacuum.
The Scharnhorst effect allows lightspeed to be altered. Tell us how
gravity waves (as opposed to gravitation) are electromagnetically
constrained.

Idiot.

--
Uncle Al
http://www.mazepath.com/uncleal/
(Toxic URL! Unsafe for children and most mammals)
http://www.mazepath.com/uncleal/lajos.htm#a2

"Uncle Al" schrieb im Newsbeitrag
...
Sancho's Atomic Trousers wrote:

Waves, virtually by definition,

already wrong

travel at the rate at which change (in
the configuration of a given medium) is
propagated in that medium.

Tell us why longitudinal and transverse
waves in an elastic medium typically travel
at different velocities.

You tell us, including why there should be
"gravity waves" at all if you believe in them.

Thus it follows -- almost from definition --
that the speed of gravitational waves (a la
Einstein) is the same as the "speed of
gravity".

Idiot.

Why do you call everybody "idiot", when you yourself
with your formula of faith in the absurdity (Sir Isaac)
of qualitative "mass attraction" & all that comes with
it as UQTs of the natural sciences are a sci.idiot of the
first order? & not just that, because by supporting such
absurdities you are a supporter of the collective
repressing natural knowledge & thus help to provoke
the collective's irrational behaviour in Holocaust, War,
Knowledge corruption, Terrorism, & Destructive
Technology -- do read www.paf.li/Quantification.pdf.
"Quantification Mathematics Modelling Scientific
Method: The Central Problem of Global Civilization.
Moreover, if you have eyes to see do look at the GFMI
as well as at SGR in order to get rid of your absurd
UQTs.

And if the former is in fact c, so must the latter be.

Lightspeed is set by the permittivity and permeability
of the vacuum.

No. The speed of light is dependent on the surrounding
temperatu www.paf.li/perceptions.htm#_Toc2338386
"The Generation of the Spectrum in a Prism" ff.

The Scharnhorst effect allows lightspeed to be altered.
Tell us how gravity waves (as opposed to gravitation)
are electromagnetically constrained.

Idiot.

Obviously as a sci.idiot you wish to be an uncle of idiots.
But I don't like such relations, Al.

++++

SGR = Substance-relevant Gravitational Resonance
cf www.sources.li/SGR-e.pdf

GFMI = Gravitational Field Measuring Instrument:
cf www.sources.li/gfmi-proof.pdf,
www.sources.li/physical-congress-2006.pdf;
output of experiment online in
http://evu.paf.li, substance-relevant in
http://evu.paf.li/rrd/hg.html - Mercury
http://evu.paf.li/rrd/cu.html - Copper
http://evu.paf.li/rrd/sn.html - Tin
http://evu.paf.li/rrd/pb.html - Lead

UQT = Unlogical Quantitative Theories
(cf http://www.paf.li/Quantification.pdf)

Uncle Al (of Irvine) Photons going through the vacuum of space,glass
water,or super cold sodium never slow down.. It takes photons to get
from the core of the Sun to its surface 100,000 years,and here the right
theory is used. In Cambridge Mass. super cold sodium(almost at absolute
zero they claim slowed photons down to 3mph "that is a laugh".
Reality is its this super cold condition that would cause photons
travelling through to be absorbed reflected,and absorbed over and over
again. These photons are covering a great distance,and that is giving
the measurement of them slowing down. Best to think greater distance
than think a photon can go 3mph However if you claim you can get
photons to go at 3mph you will get your name in a science book,and such
was the case. Your nephew Bert

Marx Speed of light,and the speed of gravity fit well with Einstein's
theories that work in the macro realm. In the micro realm only QM fits.
In this realm of atoms actions are different. The idea of instantaneous
actions can be shown to be reality. That two objects can occupy the same
spot. Where photons could be communicating with each other without a
time lapse. Where particles are created in pairs with opposite spin,each
knowing the spin direction of the other at all times no matter how great
the distance between them becomes. Reality is the QM micro realm
becomes weirder,and weirder the more we try to probe out its secrets
Bert

"G=EMC^2 Glazier" schrieb im Newsbeitrag
...

Marx Speed of light,and the speed of gravity fit
well with Einstein's theories that work in the macro
realm. In the micro realm only QM fits. In this realm
of atoms actions are different.

We cannot consider it a problem whether theories fit
something or other or nothing. We can only accept
what can be observed in nature qualitatively, natural
sciences' UQTs are doing enough damage as it is.
EVU explains the observation of substance-relevant
bipolar & variable gravitation & the qualities of SGR
& EM speeds without recourse to UQTs following
LQS analysis.

The idea of instantaneous actions can be shown
to be reality. That two objects can occupy the same
spot.

That's pure UQT & not observable in nature.
The example observable on the Pb GFMI given in
www.sources.li/SGR-e.pdf, where Pb-relevant transport
of energy & momentum between Saturn & Earth is
shown faster than c (perhaps even simultaneously)
doesn't follow any theory of the 2 planets "occupying
the same spot".

Where photons could be communicating with each
other without a time lapse. Where particles are
created in pairs with opposite spin,each knowing
the spin direction of the other at all times no matter
how great the distance between them becomes.
Reality is the QM micro realm becomes weirder,
and weirder the more we try to probe out its secrets

The only thing becoming "weirder & weirder" are the
UQTs invented by quantifying sciences. "Photons"
are a mere model, light units can be seen as much
more natural units functioning like rockets: cf Part 4
of the EVU "The Nature & Spreading of Light" in
www.paf.li/perceptions.htm#_Toc2338382.

++++

EVU = Electric Vortex Universe;
cf www.paf.li/perceptions.htm

SGR = Substance-relevant Gravitational Resonance
cf www.sources.li/SGR-e.pdf

GFMI = Gravitational Field Measuring Instrument:
cf www.sources.li/gfmi-proof.pdf,
www.sources.li/physical-congress-2006.pdf;
output of experiment online in
http://evu.paf.li, substance-relevant in
http://evu.paf.li/rrd/hg.html - Mercury
http://evu.paf.li/rrd/cu.html - Copper
http://evu.paf.li/rrd/sn.html - Tin
http://evu.paf.li/rrd/pb.html - Lead

LQS = Logical Qualitative System

UQT = Unlogical Quantitative Theories
(cf http://www.paf.li/Quantification.pdf)

Mark Our macro logic,common sense,and even finding words to describe
this Planck size world is beyond us. Without the words thinking becomes
almost impossible. Speed of gravity can't be measured. It could be
instantaneous. It could be "just there" Bert

"G=EMC^2 Glazier" schrieb im Newsbeitrag
...
Mark Our macro logic,common sense,and even
finding words to describe this Planck size world
is beyond us. Without the words thinking becomes
almost impossible. Speed of gravity can't be
measured. It could be instantaneous. It could be
"just there" Bert

As long as I can observe it (multi-c SGR), its there --
while a "Planck size world" is nowhere, just another
bundle of rather silly UQTs.

Please answer postings so that we can see it in
context with its evolution.

++++

SGR = Substance-relevant Gravitational Resonance
cf www.sources.li/SGR-e.pdf

UQT = Unlogical Quantitative Theories
(cf http://www.paf.li/Quantification.pdf)

"Chris Marx c/o www.paf.li" wrote:

"Uncle Al" schrieb im Newsbeitrag
...
Sancho's Atomic Trousers wrote:

Waves, virtually by definition,

already wrong

travel at the rate at which change (in
the configuration of a given medium) is
propagated in that medium.

Tell us why longitudinal and transverse
waves in an elastic medium typically travel
at different velocities.

You tell us, including why there should be
"gravity waves" at all if you believe in them.

Predicted by General Relativity, necessary as a quadrupolar
dissipative mechanism for relativistic orbits, and observed to spec,

http://arxiv.org/abs/astro-ph/0609417
http://www.oakland.edu/physics/mog29/mog29.pdf
PSR J0737-3039A/B, deeply relativistic neutron star binary

Idiot.

Thus it follows -- almost from definition --
that the speed of gravitational waves (a la
Einstein) is the same as the "speed of
gravity".

Idiot.

Why do you call everybody "idiot", when you yourself
with your formula of faith in the absurdity (Sir Isaac)
of qualitative "mass attraction" & all that comes with
it as UQTs of the natural sciences are a sci.idiot of the
first order?

Newton was wrong.

http://relativity.livingreviews.org/Articles/lrr-2001-4/index.html
http://arXiv.org/abs/gr-qc/0311039
http://www.physics.adelaide.edu.au/~dkoks/Faq/Relativity/SR/experiments.html
Experimental constraints on General Relativity

Idiot.

& not just that, because by supporting such
absurdities you are a supporter of the collective
repressing natural knowledge & thus help to provoke
the collective's irrational behaviour in Holocaust, War,
Knowledge corruption, Terrorism, & Destructive
Technology -- do read www.paf.li/Quantification.pdf.
"Quantification Mathematics Modelling Scientific
Method: The Central Problem of Global Civilization.
Moreover, if you have eyes to see do look at the GFMI
as well as at SGR in order to get rid of your absurd
UQTs.

Idiot.

And if the former is in fact c, so must the latter be.

Lightspeed is set by the permittivity and permeability
of the vacuum.

No. The speed of light is dependent on the surrounding
temperatu www.paf.li/perceptions.htm#_Toc2338386
"The Generation of the Spectrum in a Prism" ff.

What is the variation of refractive index with temp for zirconium
tungstate?

Empirical idiot.

[snip further crap]

--
Uncle Al
http://www.mazepath.com/uncleal/
(Toxic URL! Unsafe for children and most mammals)
http://www.mazepath.com/uncleal/lajos.htm#a2