Around an isolated charge, there is no force and so no force field.
Electric field is a mathematical concept, evolved for the ease of
calculations. But E field is fictitious.
Since E is a representative of charge, every effect
due to charge can be assigned to its field. However there cannot be
duplication. Electric force is produced either by charges or by their
fields. Electrostatic energy is either stored as a potential energy of
an assembly of charges or it is stored in the total electric field.
But since E field is fictitious, former must be true in both the
cases. In this way every phenomenon described with the help of field
can be transferred back to the basic charges.
If the magnetic field is similarly fictitious then
the magnetic energy can be said to be total kinetic energy of charges
(not mass), which move with steady drift velocity. However this is not
the case. Magnetic energy is decidedly stored in the field.
Consider a long solenoid, with N as ampere-turns per
meter. Then B is uniform inside the solenoid and its value is given
by,

B=M(N I)………………….1

Where M is the permeability of free space and I is the
steady current.
Energy stored by the magnetic field is given by,

W= K( I^2 N^2 L R^2)…………..2

Where K is constant, L is length of the solenoid and R is
its radius. In the above equation you can replace NI by B of the
equation 1.
If we now keep N (and so I) and L constant and increase
the diameter of the solenoid, then from eq.1, we find that B remains
constant. Now increase R to R'. The magnetic field energy will
increase as square of R, that is with area of the cross section of the
solenoid and not with the circumference.
Kinetic energy due to the charges, that is KE of electrons
with drift velocity, is the sum of KE energy of all electrons in the
solenoid. At larger radius of R', kinetic energy (related to charge
only) of each electron remains same, because there is no change in the
current. Number of electrons in the solenoid has now increased in
proportion to the increase in the circumference (total length of
wire=2 Pi R n, where n is number of total turns), that is in
proportion to the radius of the solenoid. Hence, if the magnetic field
energy is the KE of the charges, then it should increase as the first
power of R. But it increases as R^2, that is in proportion to the
cross-sectional area of the solenoid. Therefore magnetic energy of the
field cannot be transferred back to the KE of the moving charges.
Unlike the electrostatic case, energy is stored in the magnetic field
and in absence of any medium like aether, we conclude that, magnetic
field itself must be a real entity. A third entity after two others,
mass and charge.
====================

Real: Like mass and charge, Intangible: Like force and energy,
Fictitious: Like electric field.


This is one article out of a serial. New visitors should go through
all the previous. Dates are posting dates. Articles are posted to 1.
Alt.sci.physics.new-theories 2.Sci.physics 3.sci.physics.electromag
4. sci.physics.relativity


1. Limitation of Divergence theorem 8-3-04 1,2,3,4
2. Electron positron annihilation 12-3-04 1,2,3,4
3. Changing magnetic field does
not produce electric field 17-3-04 1,2,3,4
4. Barnett's experiment 22-3-04 1,2,3,4
5. Relativity and electrodynamics 25-3-04 1,2,3,4
6. Relativity of two moving charges 2-4-04 1,2,3,4
7. Relativity of steady charge and current 11-4-04 1,2,3,4
8 Relativity of two currents 14-4-04 1,2,3,4
9. Nature of electric field 16-4-04 1,2,3,4
10. Magnetic field is real 22-4-04 2,3,4
11. once more relativity 5-5-04 1,2,3,4
12. A new paradox in SR 10-5-04 1,2,3,4
13. Ampere's law proves reality of magnetic field 17-5-04 1,2,3,4
14 Magnetic field acts at a distance 21-5-04 1,2,3,4

"V.K.Tamhane" wrote in message om...
Around an isolated charge, there is no force and so no force field.

Inside an empty skull, there is no brain and hence no intelligence.

Dirk Vdm

"V.K.Tamhane" wrote:

Around an isolated charge, there is no force and so no force field.

Already wrong.

Electric field is a mathematical concept,

Rub a rubber balloon on clean hair (secure a volunteered head) on a
dry day and adhere it to a wall.

[snip frank idiocy]

--
Uncle Al
http://www.mazepath.com/uncleal/qz.pdf
http://www.mazepath.com/uncleal/eotvos.htm
(Do something naughty to physics)

(V.K.Tamhane) wrote:
Around an isolated charge, there is no force and so no force field.

Congratulations. Your score is now 14, that is 14 articles
of junk that are totally bogus, off base, and incorrect at the
most fundamental levels.

Most amusing is that it does not require math or deep
knowledge of physics to disprove you. All one needs do
is look out the window and observe a phenomenon that
directly contradicts one or more of your 14 junk articles.

"Ar Fai Ve" wrote in message
...
(V.K.Tamhane) wrote:
Around an isolated charge, there is no force and so no force field.

Congratulations. Your score is now 14, that is 14 articles
of junk that are totally bogus, off base, and incorrect at the
most fundamental levels.

Most amusing is that it does not require math or deep
knowledge of physics to disprove you. All one needs do
is look out the window and observe a phenomenon that
directly contradicts one or more of your 14 junk articles.

You made an interesting claim - can you back it up?
Thus, what phenomenon is that, and where is the contradiction?

In sci.physics, Uncle Al

wrote
on Tue, 25 May 2004 12:20:24 -0700
:
"V.K.Tamhane" wrote:

Around an isolated charge, there is no force and so no force field.

Already wrong.

Electric field is a mathematical concept,

Rub a rubber balloon on clean hair (secure a volunteered head) on a
dry day and adhere it to a wall.

There is a minor problem with that experiment; how
does one show that it's an electric field rather than
Magic Hair Glue(tm) holding the balloon on the wall?
(Especially if said volunteer is sporting a beehive?)
Admittedly, the best thing I can think of is two light
metal-coated spheres or vanes attached to wires which are
attached to a high-voltage source.

(If one likes spectacular, one can use a Van de Graaf generator
to make the victim^Wvolunteer look like one of Albert Einstein's
later pictures.)

Another, slightly more shocking variant would of course involve
shocking -- the harmless variety of touching a doorknob after
shuffling one's feet on untreated carpet. Presumably that
could also be used as a voltage source on the aforementioned
spheres or vanes (I've forgotten what they call that device).

If one wants to get into magnetic fields -- which
presumably are also a "mathematical concept" to Tamhane --
an electromagnetic crane might be made available (at least
one Warner Brother's cartoon borrows that crane, presumably
made by Acme, but presumably scrap metal dealers actually
use them), or one can simply use a fridge motor.

Reality. What a concept. :-)

[rest snipped]

--
#191,
It's still legal to go .sigless.

"V.K.Tamhane" wrote in message
om...
Around an isolated charge, there is no force and so no force field.
Electric field is a mathematical concept, evolved for the ease of
calculations.

This is not the case. It was postulated as a physical reality to
explain action-at-a-distance.

But E field is fictitious.

This is your claim.

Since E is a representative of charge, every effect
due to charge can be assigned to its field. However there cannot be
duplication. Electric force is produced either by charges or by their
fields. Electrostatic energy is either stored as a potential energy of
an assembly of charges or it is stored in the total electric field.

True.

But since E field is fictitious,

You cannot use your claim to support your claim. That
is circular reasoning.

former must be true in both the
cases.

Or the latter could be true, in which case there
would be the reality of the electric field instead
of charge.

If considering radiation/radio and transformers, it looks
like the electric field wins out.

In other words, since the reality of the electric field is
proven experimentally, your exclusion argument actually
works the other way and it is _charge_ that must
be fictitious.

(I am not using this as a type of excessive
counter-example argument....since I actually believe
it to be the case)

[............]

H.Ellis Ensle

"Dirk Van de moortel" wrote in message ...
"V.K.Tamhane" wrote in message om...
Around an isolated charge, there is no force and so no force field.

Inside an empty skull, there is no brain and hence no intelligence.

Dirk Vdm



I am not alone, one author wrote, " Electromotive forces act on
electricity and generate kinetic energy, just as mechanical forces
generate mechanical kinetic energy, but this kinetic energy is stored
outside the conductors."

Uncle Al wrote in message ...
"V.K.Tamhane" wrote:

Around an isolated charge, there is no force and so no force field.

Already wrong.

Proof?

Electric field is a mathematical concept,

Rub a rubber balloon on clean hair (secure a volunteered head) on a
dry day and adhere it to a wall.

First learn the diference between force acting at a distance and
force field.

[snip frank idiocy]

In this case, I am not alone, one author wrote, " Electromotive
forces act on electricity and generate kinetic energy, just as
mechanical forces generate mechanical kinetic energy, but this kinetic
energy is stored outside the conductors."

Ar Fai Ve wrote in message ...
(V.K.Tamhane) wrote:
Around an isolated charge, there is no force and so no force field.

Congratulations. Your score is now 14, that is 14 articles
of junk that are totally bogus, off base, and incorrect at the
most fundamental levels.

Most amusing is that it does not require math or deep
knowledge of physics to disprove you. All one needs do
is look out the window and observe a phenomenon that
directly contradicts one or more of your 14 junk articles.

A masked man of physics Al Queada.