Special Relativity and General Relativity are pretty boring. What
can you do with them except lorentz transformation and creating
coordinate independent equations as well as explaining gravity
where there is no possibility even of ant-gravity. Although they
are useful in GPS and astronomy as well as particle accelerators
and other stuff that occur as a consequence of reality obeying
their laws. They are outdated already and very old (nearly
a century old). Why do you guys keep talking about SR and
GR and beating dead horses.

Let's explore quantum gravity or quantum spacetime. It's more fun.
Basically what is being done is to connect the two.. quantum
mechanics and general relativity, by any *means*. That is. We
don't care if they don't come from each other and both coming from
a third theory. As long as you can connect them. So you have
4 possibilities:

1. quantising General Relativity
2. quantising a different classical theory, while still having
general relativity emerge as a low-energy (large-distance) limit.
3. having general relativity emerge as a low-energy limit
of a quantum theory that is not a quantization of a classical
theory
4. having both general relativity and quantum theory emerge
from a theory very different from both

The reasons why you need to connect QM and GR is
because objects interact with spacetime so they need
to be related in some way.

We know of the difficulty in probing planck scale, however there
is another way to to know which quantum gravity theory is
the right path for us. The theory must be able to explain
teleportation. So what kind of quantum gravity or quantum
spacetime theory is there available with enough degree of
freedom to describe teleportation of macroscopic objects
such as a chair? So far, I've seen one that has capability to
do it. It's this:

http://www.arxiv.org/abs/physics/0504062

What else?

In pure quantum mechanics. Decoherence prevents
macroscopic objects from being in superposition so
you can't override probability to will its location. However,
if spacetime is another quantum object. Perhaps we
can put spacetime in superposition and then make
it match the decohered quantum objects eventual
position? This assumes QM and GR coming from a
another theory where you can overdide probabilities,
etc.

rex

"Rex" wrote in message
ps.com...
:
: Special Relativity and General Relativity are pretty boring. What
: can you do with them except lorentz transformation and creating
: coordinate independent equations as well as explaining gravity
: where there is no possibility even of ant-gravity. Although they
: are useful in GPS

Nonsense, GPS receivers do not have atomic clocks so GR
and SR are no use at all.

On Sep 3, 9:20 pm, "Androcles" wrote:
"Rex" wrote in message

ps.com...
:
: Special Relativity and General Relativity are pretty boring. What
: can you do with them except lorentz transformation and creating
: coordinate independent equations as well as explaining gravity
: where there is no possibility even of ant-gravity. Although they
: are useful in GPS

Nonsense, GPS receivers do not have atomic clocks so GR
and SR are no use at all.

i mean the GPS satellites use GR corrections

"Rex" wrote in message
oups.com...
: On Sep 3, 9:20 pm, "Androcles" wrote:
: "Rex" wrote in message
:
: ps.com...
: :
: : Special Relativity and General Relativity are pretty boring. What
: : can you do with them except lorentz transformation and creating
: : coordinate independent equations as well as explaining gravity
: : where there is no possibility even of ant-gravity. Although they
: : are useful in GPS
:
: Nonsense, GPS receivers do not have atomic clocks so GR
: and SR are no use at all.
:
: i mean the GPS satellites use GR corrections


It doesn't matter what you mean, the whole of Europe is in just one
time zone except for Great Britain and Portugal, and most of Africa
doesn't use Daylight Saving Time. GPS satellite times are hours
adrift of more than 23 other time zones around the world and
GR cannot correct for that.
http://www.thelightisgreen.com/Time%20zones.gif
Of course if your Einsteinian GPS receiver thinks you are more
than one light-hour away, out near Saturn, you should get a new
receiver, a Newtonian one as everybody else uses.

--
'we establish by definition that the "time" required by
light to travel from A to B equals the "time" it requires
to travel from B to A' because I SAY SO and you have to
agree because I'm the great genius, STOOOPID, don't you
dare question it. -- Rabbi Albert Einstein

http://www.androcles01.pwp.blueyonde...rt/tAB=tBA.gif

'we establish by definition that the "time" required by
light to travel from A to B doesn't equal the "time" it requires
to travel from B to A in the stationary system, obviously.' --
Heretic Jan Bielawski, assistant light-bulb changer.

Ref: ups.com


"What can be asserted without evidence can also be dismissed without
evidence." -- Uncle Stooopid.


"Counterfactual assumptions yield nonsense.
If such a thing were actually observed, reliably and reproducibly, then
relativity would immediately need a major overhaul if not a complete
replacement." -- Humpty Roberts.

Rabbi Albert Einstein in 1895 failed an examination that would
have allowed him to study for a diploma as an electrical engineer
at the Eidgenössische Technische Hochschule in Zurich
(couldn't even pass the SATs).

According to Phuckwit Duck it was geography and history that Einstein
failed on, as if Eidgenössische Technische Hochschule would give a
damn. That tells you the lengths these lying *******s will go to to
protect their tin god, but its always a laugh when they slip up.
Trolls, the lot of them.

"This is PHYSICS, not math or logic, and "proof" is completely
irrelevant." -- Humpty Roberts.

On Sep 3, 10:01 pm, Sam Wormley wrote:
Rex wrote:
Special Relativity and General Relativity are pretty boring.

Why don't you work out the Precession of the perihelion Venus
using general relativity... compare that with the Newtonian
prediction.

Venus? Anyway. What would you get from GR.. but only
non-eucludian or curved spacetime. No surprises. But
quantum gravity changes everything. It gives us insights
into the true nature of things and there are experimental
consquences even above the planck scale.

rex

"Rex" wrote in message
oups.com...
On Sep 3, 10:01 pm, Sam Wormley wrote:
Rex wrote:
Special Relativity and General Relativity are pretty boring.

Why don't you work out the Precession of the perihelion Venus
using general relativity... compare that with the Newtonian
prediction.

Venus? Anyway. What would you get from GR.. but only
non-eucludian or curved spacetime. No surprises. But
quantum gravity changes everything. It gives us insights
into the true nature of things and there are experimental
consquences even above the planck scale.

rex



Precession of perihelion of all planets will be explainable using quantum
gravity.

Length is probabilistic.


Abd we have a wave-particle duality for the very same reason, because length
is probabilistic.

Rex wrote:

Special Relativity and General Relativity are pretty boring.
[snip crap]

Idiot. SR is GR with G=0.

1. quantising General Relativity

GR founding postulates c=c G=G h=0. Can't be quantized by definition.

Idiot

2. quantising a different classical theory, while still having
general relativity emerge as a low-energy (large-distance) limit.

ALL classical gravitation theories postulate h=0. "Classical" =
"non-quantized"

Idiot.

3. having general relativity emerge as a low-energy limit
of a quantum theory that is not a quantization of a classical
theory

You don't know the difference between weak field and strong field vs.
classical and quantum limits.

Idiot.

4. having both general relativity and quantum theory emerge
from a theory very different from both
[snip crap]

A high school pendulum with sin(theta)=theta and the full expression
with a power series of angle cannot wildly diverge from a common
origin, ditto Newton and Einstein. The common background is still
there wahtever the decimal trim.

Idiot.

This assumes QM and GR coming from a
another theory where you can overdide probabilities,
etc.

Idiot.

--
Uncle Al
http://www.mazepath.com/uncleal/
(Toxic URL! Unsafe for children and most mammals)
http://www.mazepath.com/uncleal/lajos.htm#a2

Uncle Al wrote:
SR is GR with G=0.

Not really. SR is the local limit of GR. Alternatively, SR is GR applied
to a flat manifold with topology R^4.

There are solutions of "GR with G=0" in which SR is not valid. Some
examples: all of the gravitational wave manifolds, and even the flat
manifold with topology SxR^2xR.


GR is quite complicated, and it is rather difficult to construct a VALID
sound bite.


Tom Roberts

"Uncle Al" wrote in message
...
: Rex wrote:
:
: Special Relativity and General Relativity are pretty boring.
: [snip crap]
:
: Idiot. SR is GR with G=0.

Hahaha! That's a true classic!

"What can be asserted without evidence can also be dismissed without
evidence." -- Uncle Stooopid.

--
'we establish by definition that the "time" required by
light to travel from A to B equals the "time" it requires
to travel from B to A' because I SAY SO and you have to
agree because I'm the great genius, STOOOPID, don't you
dare question it. -- Rabbi Albert Einstein

http://www.androcles01.pwp.blueyonde...rt/tAB=tBA.gif

'we establish by definition that the "time" required by
light to travel from A to B doesn't equal the "time" it requires
to travel from B to A in the stationary system, obviously.' --
Heretic Jan Bielawski, assistant light-bulb changer.

Ref: ups.com


"SR is GR with G=0." -- Uncle Stooopid.

"What can be asserted without evidence can also be dismissed without
evidence." -- Uncle Stooopid.


"Counterfactual assumptions yield nonsense.
If such a thing were actually observed, reliably and reproducibly, then
relativity would immediately need a major overhaul if not a complete
replacement." -- Humpty Roberts.

Rabbi Albert Einstein in 1895 failed an examination that would
have allowed him to study for a diploma as an electrical engineer
at the Eidgenössische Technische Hochschule in Zurich
(couldn't even pass the SATs).

According to Phuckwit Duck it was geography and history that Einstein
failed on, as if Eidgenössische Technische Hochschule would give a
damn. That tells you the lengths these lying *******s will go to to
protect their tin god, but its always a laugh when they slip up.
Trolls, the lot of them.

"This is PHYSICS, not math or logic, and "proof" is completely
irrelevant." -- Humpty Roberts.

Androcles wrote:
[snip crap]

Rabbi Albert Einstein
[snip rest of crap]

The Androclitty doctrine: Protect confused angry ignorance against
achievement through technical incompetence exercising intellectual
irresponsibility.

Hey Androclitty, "Hab SoSlI' Quch!

--
Uncle Al
http://www.mazepath.com/uncleal/
(Toxic URL! Unsafe for children and most mammals)
http://www.mazepath.com/uncleal/lajos.htm#a2