We are running out of oil . It takes five calories of
oil to grow one calorie of food . Hence when the oil runs out , we
will all have to go back to the farms to supply the calories and
indeed billions of surplus humans might have to die .
However plant growth is dependent on the amount of sunshine
falling on a given fertile area . Why dont we collect sunlight ( the
non green , non infra red part plants need ) from barren areas , using
reflecting mirrors and then use light pipes to carry this light
(discarding the heat ) hundreds of miles to the fertile areas and
shine the extra light on the plants ? Yields will boom manyfold .
Unlce Al remember you read of this scheme here first .

excerpts
A related technology which may potentially be integrated with fiber
optic lighting is the Himawari light collector. Developed in Japan
(the name is Japanese for 'sunflower') the Himawari collects and
concentrates sunlight for delivery to indoor light emitters connected
to fiber optic cables. This system was designed to allow office and
apartment building to provide natural healthy sunlight deep in their
interiors, allowing for the creation of indoor gardens and windowless
'sunrooms' or simply to provide healthier indoor lighting, at least
during the daytime. Integration with other fiber optic lighting
systems would require the use of selective in-line fiber cable optical
integrators which are not commonly available from fiber optic lighting
system makers but not that unusual in the general optics components
industry. Such integration would allow further savings in energy by
letting sunlight drive indoor light fixtures during the day. But the
Himawari units are expensive and may be more practical dedicated to
specific jobs, like indoor garden lighting, or their own area lighting
emitters in special locations. The Himawari is made by the Laforet
Engineering Co. and comes is a large variety of models sized from
small static units designed for an apartment balcony to large
auto-tracking building scale collectors.



Terraformed worlds
Mars
Mars was once a glacial desert, but through amat detonations in the
crust and beneath the poles the albedo has been lowered and water
vapor has been freed (despite strong protests from the "reds" who
wanted to preserve the planet as it was). Kuiper belt ice is being
imported and nanomachines employed to make the planet livable for
unprotected humans, a project expected to take at least 60 years more.

Mars is currently the most populous colony planet, with a population
of 90 million humans, mainly Indians and Australians. It is formally
divided into 24 independent regions, each having a seat on the
planetary council (which mainly manages the terraforming effort). The
council convenes in Phobos city.

Habshi wrote:

We are running out of oil .

There has not been a year in the past 50 years when discovered
petroleum reserves did not outpace consumption, you stooopid wog.

It takes five calories of
oil to grow one calorie of food .

Bull****. Have you ever heard of forests, you stooopid wog? How much
oil is necesary for their growth? Have your horse pull a plow. Use
your **** for fertilizer. Organic farming - no chemicals, no
petroleum inputs necessary. Do you have a problem with sustainable
agriculture, you stoopid wog?

Hence when the oil runs out , we
will all have to go back to the farms to supply the calories and
indeed billions of surplus humans might have to die .

**** 'em and **** you, wog. 4 billion dead Third World wogs would be
a huge blessing for every aspect of this planet and its valuable
inhabitants. There is no value is rotted meat.

However plant growth is dependent on the amount of sunshine
falling on a given fertile area .

Bull****. Photosynthesis saturates with light intensity, you stooopid
wog. Do you know the difference among C3, C4, and CAM photsynthesis
you stoopid wog?

Why dont we collect sunlight ( the
non green , non infra red part plants need ) from barren areas , using
reflecting mirrors and then use light pipes to carry this light
(discarding the heat ) hundreds of miles to the fertile areas and
shine the extra light on the plants ?

****ing imbecile.

[snip crap]

--
Uncle Al
http://www.mazepath.com/uncleal/qz.pdf
http://www.mazepath.com/uncleal/eotvos.htm
(Do something naughty to physics)

It's that simple? Your meds must be out of date. Don't take any more.

Habshi wrote:

We are running out of oil . It takes five calories of
oil to grow one calorie of food . Hence when the oil runs out , we
will all have to go back to the farms to supply the calories and
indeed billions of surplus humans might have to die .
However plant growth is dependent on the amount of sunshine
falling on a given fertile area . Why dont we collect sunlight ( the
non green , non infra red part plants need ) from barren areas , using
reflecting mirrors and then use light pipes to carry this light
(discarding the heat ) hundreds of miles to the fertile areas and
shine the extra light on the plants ? Yields will boom manyfold .
Unlce Al remember you read of this scheme here first .

excerpts
A related technology which may potentially be integrated with fiber
optic lighting is the Himawari light collector. Developed in Japan
(the name is Japanese for 'sunflower') the Himawari collects and
concentrates sunlight for delivery to indoor light emitters connected
to fiber optic cables. This system was designed to allow office and
apartment building to provide natural healthy sunlight deep in their
interiors, allowing for the creation of indoor gardens and windowless
'sunrooms' or simply to provide healthier indoor lighting, at least
during the daytime. Integration with other fiber optic lighting
systems would require the use of selective in-line fiber cable optical
integrators which are not commonly available from fiber optic lighting
system makers but not that unusual in the general optics components
industry. Such integration would allow further savings in energy by
letting sunlight drive indoor light fixtures during the day. But the
Himawari units are expensive and may be more practical dedicated to
specific jobs, like indoor garden lighting, or their own area lighting
emitters in special locations. The Himawari is made by the Laforet
Engineering Co. and comes is a large variety of models sized from
small static units designed for an apartment balcony to large
auto-tracking building scale collectors.



Terraformed worlds
Mars
Mars was once a glacial desert, but through amat detonations in the
crust and beneath the poles the albedo has been lowered and water
vapor has been freed (despite strong protests from the "reds" who
wanted to preserve the planet as it was). Kuiper belt ice is being
imported and nanomachines employed to make the planet livable for
unprotected humans, a project expected to take at least 60 years more.

Mars is currently the most populous colony planet, with a population
of 90 million humans, mainly Indians and Australians. It is formally
divided into 24 independent regions, each having a seat on the
planetary council (which mainly manages the terraforming effort). The
council convenes in Phobos city.

In article ,
Uncle Al wrote:
Habshi wrote:

We are running out of oil .

There has not been a year in the past 50 years when discovered
petroleum reserves did not outpace consumption, you stooopid wog.

It takes five calories of
oil to grow one calorie of food .

Bull****. Have you ever heard of forests, you stooopid wog? How much
oil is necesary for their growth? Have your horse pull a plow. Use
your **** for fertilizer. Organic farming - no chemicals, no
petroleum inputs necessary. Do you have a problem with sustainable
agriculture, you stoopid wog?

Personally, I like having other people grow my food for me. I'm happy to
buy it at the grocery store. Like he said,

Forests don't offer a lot of nutritional value per acre. That's why
agriculture was invented in the first place.


Hence when the oil runs out , we
will all have to go back to the farms to supply the calories and
indeed billions of surplus humans might have to die .

Agriculture has come a long way in the last hundred years. But without
the abundant energy put into modern, intensive farming, we'd have more
than 1% of the population working the farms again.


**** 'em and **** you, wog. 4 billion dead Third World wogs would be
a huge blessing for every aspect of this planet and its valuable
inhabitants. There is no value is rotted meat.

However plant growth is dependent on the amount of sunshine
falling on a given fertile area .

Bull****. Photosynthesis saturates with light intensity, you stooopid
wog. Do you know the difference among C3, C4, and CAM photsynthesis
you stoopid wog?

Why dont we collect sunlight ( the
non green , non infra red part plants need ) from barren areas , using
reflecting mirrors and then use light pipes to carry this light
(discarding the heat ) hundreds of miles to the fertile areas and
shine the extra light on the plants ?

Better to use that energy to charge the batteries on our electric
tractors.

--
"The main, if not the only, function of the word aether has been to
furnish a nominative case to the verb 'to undulate'."
-- the Earl of Salisbury, 1894

Habshi wrote:

We are running out of oil.

Read Goodstein's "Out of Gas"... with fossil fuels pretty
much gone by 2100, without nuclear, solar and wind to replace
the the current energy production, nine billion folks cannot
be supported.

The world will change.

In article ,
(Gregory L. Hansen) wrote:
In article ,
Uncle Al wrote:
Habshi wrote:
snip

Why dont we collect sunlight ( the
non green , non infra red part plants need ) from barren areas , using
reflecting mirrors and then use light pipes to carry this light
(discarding the heat ) hundreds of miles to the fertile areas and
shine the extra light on the plants ?

Better to use that energy to charge the batteries on our electric
tractors.

But will they have the power to pull a wagon with 50 bales of hay
on it? Or do the first plowing.

/BAH

Subtract a hundred and four for e-mail.

In article ,
wrote:
In article ,
(Gregory L. Hansen) wrote:
In article ,
Uncle Al wrote:
Habshi wrote:
snip

Why dont we collect sunlight ( the
non green , non infra red part plants need ) from barren areas , using
reflecting mirrors and then use light pipes to carry this light
(discarding the heat ) hundreds of miles to the fertile areas and
shine the extra light on the plants ?

Better to use that energy to charge the batteries on our electric
tractors.

But will they have the power to pull a wagon with 50 bales of hay
on it? Or do the first plowing.

Of course they will! They might not pull those bales very far... Still
better than beaming the light all over creation to shine on the crops.


--
"We don't grow up hearing stories around the camp fire anymore about
cultural figures. Instead we get them from books, TV or movies, so the
characters that today provide us a common language are corporate
creatures" -- Rebecca Tushnet

I allready gave them the engine that uses water for the piston that will
boil .
2 stroke twin driving a sliding vane rotor .
Runs of steam with O2 injected and just uses gas or any fule to
maintain the heat lost.
O2 injected into 145 psi steam at top stroke.
a rotor 10 times the R as a crank.
no other engine can compeat.

In sci.physics,

wrote
on Thu, 29 Apr 04 07:43:11 GMT
:
In article ,
(Gregory L. Hansen) wrote:
In article ,
Uncle Al wrote:
Habshi wrote:
snip

Why dont we collect sunlight ( the
non green , non infra red part plants need ) from barren areas , using
reflecting mirrors and then use light pipes to carry this light
(discarding the heat ) hundreds of miles to the fertile areas and
shine the extra light on the plants ?

Better to use that energy to charge the batteries on our electric
tractors.

But will they have the power to pull a wagon with 50 bales of hay
on it? Or do the first plowing.

Depends on how many batteries -- of course I'm not sure how
efficient a very very large tractor is going to be when hauling
its batteries around. :-) But if one has a big enough device
-- say the size of the Shuttle crawler -- those 50 bales will be
carried easily. (Efficiently, no. Easily, yes.)

Suddenly gasoline or diesel sounds like a very good idea,
although generating it from something other than oil
is probably advisable once we run out... :-) (I'm
thinking large algae farms although I really don't
have a lot of data on how well that will work. Admittedly,
my understanding is that oil is from algae anyway...)


/BAH

Subtract a hundred and four for e-mail.


--
#191,
It's still legal to go .sigless.

In article ,
The Ghost In The Machine wrote:
In sci.physics,

wrote
on Thu, 29 Apr 04 07:43:11 GMT
:
In article ,
(Gregory L. Hansen) wrote:
In article ,
Uncle Al wrote:
Habshi wrote:
snip

Why dont we collect sunlight ( the
non green , non infra red part plants need ) from barren areas , using
reflecting mirrors and then use light pipes to carry this light
(discarding the heat ) hundreds of miles to the fertile areas and
shine the extra light on the plants ?

Better to use that energy to charge the batteries on our electric
tractors.

But will they have the power to pull a wagon with 50 bales of hay
on it? Or do the first plowing.

Depends on how many batteries -- of course I'm not sure how
efficient a very very large tractor is going to be when hauling
its batteries around. :-) But if one has a big enough device
-- say the size of the Shuttle crawler -- those 50 bales will be
carried easily. (Efficiently, no. Easily, yes.)

Suddenly gasoline or diesel sounds like a very good idea,
although generating it from something other than oil
is probably advisable once we run out... :-) (I'm
thinking large algae farms although I really don't
have a lot of data on how well that will work. Admittedly,
my understanding is that oil is from algae anyway...)

I don't think hydrogen is the greatest idea. I like the idea of
generating a simple alcohal like methanol from simple feedstocks like
air, so we'll have something that's liquid at room temperature to put in
our fuel cells. But I freely admit there's probably chemistry issues I'm
not aware of that may make it difficult. Power it with nuclear, solar,
the usual array of non-fossil fuel sources.

Algae are basically solar collectors, and wouldn't be preferred unless
they do something more efficiently. If you just want to put electricity
into the grid, you're probably better off with something else. And if you
want to make oil for fuel, you should probably work out the efficiency of
that (including refining and all) versus recharging batteries from the
grid.

--
"The preferred method of entering a building is to use a tank main gun
round, direct fire artillery round, or TOW, Dragon, or Hellfire missile to
clear the first room." -- THE RANGER HANDBOOK U.S. Army, 1992