Gravity is a continuum.

If there is a non-infinitesimal quantizing of the curved
space-time interval then this shortest distance of events
would seem to eliminate anything happening on any smaller
scale. NOTHING COULD HAPPEN THERE.

I define the infinitesimal as being a nonzero - the smallest of all
quantities. As opposed to the abscence of any quantity - or Zero.

MITCH RAEMSCH

Gravity seems to have a secret power - it could move a potentially
infinite mass. What kind of force can do this?
THE STRENGTH OF GRAVITY IS LIMITED IN ACCELERATION - TO LIGHT SPEED
BY EINSTEIN'S EQUIVALENCE PRINCIPLE.
Curved space-time is absolute. Einstein knew there was something wrong
with black holes. He knew that the time slowdown is absolute.
The end of General Relativity is not a singularity but is
instead the event horizon. If you claim that time stops there
you are claiming what about the inside? You cannot have it both ways.
To stop time is to end space - unified space-time cannot be split.

It is the same for a naked singularity or a Big Bang without gravity.
You cannot divorce any force from the whole. Otherwise what you have
cannot be said to be unified. And everything is unified from
the very begining and forever. Unification is time invariant.

When the first equations for black holes were solved they though
they saw matter dropping out of the universe. How true that would be.
By ending space-time at a singularity you could no longer have
anything. No mass or gravity
End time - End space - then you End Mass as well and end mass/energy
you end gravity. Obviously we do not see galaxies unraveling at their
centers so it is safe to say something else must happen.
I believe the solution is that matter converts to energy at the apex
of gravity's(limited)strength. That is that light comes out when
gravitational strength reaches a light speed acceleration equivalent.
Seems to fit the bill of what they say they see happening
where black holes ought to be.
There is a gravitational conversion of matter into energy(light)
recycling the mass as something even greater than a supernova.

-- Light Falls Everywhere Its At --
-- It never stops and gravity is ubiquitous --
-- The nature of light is in its name --
-- Its C squared lighter than matter --

I believe time has a speed a light speed to be exact.
The evidence of this is that you can catch up to it.
You catch up and it slows down.
This explains a mechanism behind Special Relativity.
You catch up to time.

I believe that times motion is what carries light around.
If you want to see how time moves look at a light bubble
with light going not only outward but also in ever direction
possible. That's time.
Mass bends the motion of time. Light falls because it is being
carried by a time whose motion is curving(making curved space).

The force that is expanding the universe is anti-gravity. It
is the opposite of gravity compressing space-time.
Compressing space-time slows light. Slowing time slows light.
I claim that the opposite can happen - that light accelerates.
Light accelerates where time speeds up or where anti-gravity
expands space-time.
Its a cosmological twist on special relativity.

Where mass slows time there is a force(motion)of gravity proportional
to the time slowdown. THIS IS AN INVISIBLE DIMENSION OF MOTION.
WE CANNOT SEE SPACE MOVE. We only see it move matter or when it
is resisted to create weight.
My gravity is dual. It is the cause of General Relativity.
A moving time bending around mass makes curved space-time motion.
This motion is a limited thing and is equivalent to accelerating
matter. The weight experienced in gravity is equivalent to the
weight experienced while accelerating - both in quantity and
in quality. This sums up the Einstein's equivalence principle.

The inconsistancy of GR with SR in the case of black holes
must be addressed. Matter falls at light speed at the event
horizon. You cannot get around this. Special Relativity and
and General Relativity must combine to eliminate light speed
freefall. They combine when the strength of gravity is understood
as an acceleration of which is limited. The strength of
gravity is limited. The motion of gravity is limited.

Freefall is special relativistic. When you add the increasing motions
while falling the all add up to something less(than lightspeed)
by relativistic additions of velocity.

Hi Mitchell ,
The horizon of frozen stars ,
You ask ,
" If you claim that time stops there
you are claiming what about the inside ?
You cannot have it both ways . "

Similar to special relativity ,
general relativity ( GR ) requires two " free fall "
frames of reference , one that is local ,
an another that is distant .

Now , for us humans ,
the horizon of a frozen star is always the distant frame .

GR accurately predicts what we will _ Observe _
when we look at that distant frame .
( Physics is about such observations )

You'd see no heat , no radiation ...
It'd look frozen ... Without any " Ticking " .

However , " Relativity " , says :
The laws of physics , including the speed of light ,
are the same for all local frames .
( Be they free-fall or inertial )

But if you could somehow be at that horizon ,
I assume that it would be nearly infinitely hot .

(Mitchell) wrote in message . com...
Gravity is a continuum.

If there is a non-infinitesimal quantizing of the curved
space-time interval then this shortest distance of events
would seem to eliminate anything happening on any smaller
scale. NOTHING COULD HAPPEN THERE.

I define the infinitesimal as being a nonzero - the smallest of all
quantities. As opposed to the abscence of any quantity - or Zero.

MITCH RAEMSCH

Gravity seems to have a secret power - it could move a potentially
infinite mass. What kind of force can do this?
THE STRENGTH OF GRAVITY IS LIMITED IN ACCELERATION - TO LIGHT SPEED
BY EINSTEIN'S EQUIVALENCE PRINCIPLE.
Curved space-time is absolute. Einstein knew there was something wrong
with black holes. He knew that the time slowdown is absolute.
The end of General Relativity is not a singularity but is
instead the event horizon. If you claim that time stops there
you are claiming what about the inside? You cannot have it both ways.
To stop time is to end space - unified space-time cannot be split.

It is the same for a naked singularity or a Big Bang without gravity.
You cannot divorce any force from the whole. Otherwise what you have
cannot be said to be unified. And everything is unified from
the very begining and forever. Unification is time invariant.

When the first equations for black holes were solved they though
they saw matter dropping out of the universe. How true that would be.
By ending space-time at a singularity you could no longer have
anything. No mass or gravity
End time - End space - then you End Mass as well and end mass/energy
you end gravity. Obviously we do not see galaxies unraveling at their
centers so it is safe to say something else must happen.
I believe the solution is that matter converts to energy at the apex
of gravity's(limited)strength. That is that light comes out when
gravitational strength reaches a light speed acceleration equivalent.
Seems to fit the bill of what they say they see happening
where black holes ought to be.
There is a gravitational conversion of matter into energy(light)
recycling the mass as something even greater than a supernova.

-- Light Falls Everywhere Its At --
-- It never stops and gravity is ubiquitous --
-- The nature of light is in its name --
-- Its C squared lighter than matter --

I believe time has a speed a light speed to be exact.
The evidence of this is that you can catch up to it.
You catch up and it slows down.
This explains a mechanism behind Special Relativity.
You catch up to time.

I believe that times motion is what carries light around.
If you want to see how time moves look at a light bubble
with light going not only outward but also in ever direction
possible. That's time.
Mass bends the motion of time. Light falls because it is being
carried by a time whose motion is curving(making curved space).

The force that is expanding the universe is anti-gravity. It
is the opposite of gravity compressing space-time.
Compressing space-time slows light. Slowing time slows light.
I claim that the opposite can happen - that light accelerates.
Light accelerates where time speeds up or where anti-gravity
expands space-time.
Its a cosmological twist on special relativity.

Where mass slows time there is a force(motion)of gravity proportional
to the time slowdown. THIS IS AN INVISIBLE DIMENSION OF MOTION.
WE CANNOT SEE SPACE MOVE. We only see it move matter or when it
is resisted to create weight.
My gravity is dual. It is the cause of General Relativity.
A moving time bending around mass makes curved space-time motion.
This motion is a limited thing and is equivalent to accelerating
matter. The weight experienced in gravity is equivalent to the
weight experienced while accelerating - both in quantity and
in quality. This sums up the Einstein's equivalence principle.

The inconsistancy of GR with SR in the case of black holes
must be addressed. Matter falls at light speed at the event
horizon. You cannot get around this. Special Relativity and
and General Relativity must combine to eliminate light speed
freefall. They combine when the strength of gravity is understood
as an acceleration of which is limited. The strength of
gravity is limited. The motion of gravity is limited.

Freefall is special relativistic. When you add the increasing motions
while falling the all add up to something less(than lightspeed)
by relativistic additions of velocity.

I counted at least 20 wrong or fallacious statements in the above. Can
anyone do better?

(Titan Point) wrote in message . com...
(Mitchell) wrote in message . com...
Gravity is a continuum.

If there is a non-infinitesimal quantizing of the curved
space-time interval then this shortest distance of events
would seem to eliminate anything happening on any smaller
scale. NOTHING COULD HAPPEN THERE.

I define the infinitesimal as being a nonzero - the smallest of all
quantities. As opposed to the abscence of any quantity - or Zero.

MITCH RAEMSCH

Gravity seems to have a secret power - it could move a potentially
infinite mass. What kind of force can do this?
THE STRENGTH OF GRAVITY IS LIMITED IN ACCELERATION - TO LIGHT SPEED
BY EINSTEIN'S EQUIVALENCE PRINCIPLE.
Curved space-time is absolute. Einstein knew there was something wrong
with black holes. He knew that the time slowdown is absolute.
The end of General Relativity is not a singularity but is
instead the event horizon. If you claim that time stops there
you are claiming what about the inside? You cannot have it both ways.
To stop time is to end space - unified space-time cannot be split.

It is the same for a naked singularity or a Big Bang without gravity.
You cannot divorce any force from the whole. Otherwise what you have
cannot be said to be unified. And everything is unified from
the very begining and forever. Unification is time invariant.

When the first equations for black holes were solved they though
they saw matter dropping out of the universe. How true that would be.
By ending space-time at a singularity you could no longer have
anything. No mass or gravity
End time - End space - then you End Mass as well and end mass/energy
you end gravity. Obviously we do not see galaxies unraveling at their
centers so it is safe to say something else must happen.
I believe the solution is that matter converts to energy at the apex
of gravity's(limited)strength. That is that light comes out when
gravitational strength reaches a light speed acceleration equivalent.
Seems to fit the bill of what they say they see happening
where black holes ought to be.
There is a gravitational conversion of matter into energy(light)
recycling the mass as something even greater than a supernova.

-- Light Falls Everywhere Its At --
-- It never stops and gravity is ubiquitous --
-- The nature of light is in its name --
-- Its C squared lighter than matter --

I believe time has a speed a light speed to be exact.
The evidence of this is that you can catch up to it.
You catch up and it slows down.
This explains a mechanism behind Special Relativity.
You catch up to time.

I believe that times motion is what carries light around.
If you want to see how time moves look at a light bubble
with light going not only outward but also in ever direction
possible. That's time.
Mass bends the motion of time. Light falls because it is being
carried by a time whose motion is curving(making curved space).

The force that is expanding the universe is anti-gravity. It
is the opposite of gravity compressing space-time.
Compressing space-time slows light. Slowing time slows light.
I claim that the opposite can happen - that light accelerates.
Light accelerates where time speeds up or where anti-gravity
expands space-time.
Its a cosmological twist on special relativity.

Where mass slows time there is a force(motion)of gravity proportional
to the time slowdown. THIS IS AN INVISIBLE DIMENSION OF MOTION.
WE CANNOT SEE SPACE MOVE. We only see it move matter or when it
is resisted to create weight.
My gravity is dual. It is the cause of General Relativity.
A moving time bending around mass makes curved space-time motion.
This motion is a limited thing and is equivalent to accelerating
matter. The weight experienced in gravity is equivalent to the
weight experienced while accelerating - both in quantity and
in quality. This sums up the Einstein's equivalence principle.

The inconsistancy of GR with SR in the case of black holes
must be addressed. Matter falls at light speed at the event
horizon. You cannot get around this. Special Relativity and
and General Relativity must combine to eliminate light speed
freefall. They combine when the strength of gravity is understood
as an acceleration of which is limited. The strength of
gravity is limited. The motion of gravity is limited.

Freefall is special relativistic. When you add the increasing motions
while falling the all add up to something less(than lightspeed)
by relativistic additions of velocity.

I counted at least 20 wrong or fallacious statements in the above. Can
anyone do better?

If you are claiming everything I have written is false then
I guess I have done my job right.
Mitch Raemsch

"Mitchell" wrote in message
om...
Curved space-time is absolute. Einstein knew there was something
wrong
with black holes. He knew that the time slowdown is absolute.
The end of General Relativity is not a singularity but is
instead the event horizon. If you claim that time stops there
you are claiming what about the inside? You cannot have it both
ways.
To stop time is to end space - unified space-time cannot be
split.

The slowing down of time around a black hole is not absolute. Think
about it -- how could it be? What does it mean for time to slow
down?
Less time per unit time?

What time "slows down" compared to is an artificial coordinate time.
This coordinate time is just a number humans use to pinpoint an event
in space-time, much like latitude and longitude are used to pinpoint
a
location on earth. Longitude lines get closer together near the
north
pole. The difference in longitude between the ends of a meterstick
pointed east-west is much larger near the north pole, but that
doesn't
mean that our meterstick has expanded. The situation with time near
a
black hole is analogous.

One way of understanding coordinate systems in general relativity is
by an analogy with maps. We could make a map of the earth on which a
location's height above the origin was proportional to its latitude,
and its distance to the right of the origin was proportional to its
longitude. On such a map, objects near the north pole would be
highly
distorted. They would be stretched in the east-west direction.

Because the earth is curved, all flat maps of it will be distorted.
Since you can make any coordinate system into a map, all coordinate
systems will at some place inaccurately represent distances. That,
of
course, doesn't mean that we can't calculate the true distances, just
that we will need a correction factor, comparing differences in
coordinate systems to actual distances. For small distances, one
can,
in general, use this formula:

distance = sqrt[ g_xx * (dx)^2 + 2 * g_xy * (dx)(dy) + g_yy * (dy)^2
]

where dx = difference in x-coordinate
dy = difference in y-coordinate
g_xx, g_xy, and g_yy are a set of numbers
called the metric tensor.

For the latitude-longitude coordinate system, the formula is:

distance = sqrt[ r^2*cos^2(y)*(dx)^2 + 2*0*(dx)(dy) + r^2*(dy)^2 ]

where x = longitude in radians
y = latitude in radians

The situation is analogous in general relativity. Because space-time
is curved, there will always be a discrepancy between coordinate time
and position differences and real times and distances. This does not
mean that time or space has grown or shrunk, or has sped up or slowed
down, just that we need a correction formula if we want to get real
distances and times from coordinate differences.

The Schwartzschild coordinate system was the first coordinate system
used to describe black holes, and it is still the most commonly used
one. Here is the formula to get small time intervals near a black
hole from differences in Schwartzchild coordinates between events:

time = sqrt[ (1-2M/r)(dt)^2 - (dr)^2/(1-2M/r)
- r^2*cos^2(y)*(dx)^2 - r^2*(dy)^2 ]

where M is the mass of the black hole,
t, r, x, and y are our coordinates,
and units are chosen so that c=1 and G=1.

Let's imagine someone hovering outside a black hole, staying at the
same r, x, and y. Only t -- the coordinate time is changing. How
many real seconds go by for that person in one second of coordinate
time?

Since dr=0, dx=0, and dy=0,

time = sqrt[ (1-2M/r)(dt)^2 - (0)^2/(1-2M/r)
- r^2*cos^2(y)*(0)^2 - r^2*(0)^2 ]
= sqrt[ (1-2M/r)(dt)^2 - 0 - 0 - 0 ]
= sqrt[ (1-2M/r)(dt)^2 ]
= sqrt(1-2M/r)*(dt)

So, in one second of coordinate time, sqrt(1-2M/r) seconds of real
time pass. As we get closer to the black hole, r decreases, and less
real time passes per coordinate time. It looks like time is slowing
down, but that just means our coordinate system is distorted.

At the event horizon, r=2M, and something strange happens when we
plug
that into
the formula:

time = sqrt(1-2M/r)*(dt)
= sqrt(1-2M/2M)*(dt)
= sqrt(1-1)*(dt)
= sqrt(0)*(dt)
= 0

So, it looks like time has stopped! It looks like someone who goes
to
the event horizon, within a finite amount of his own real time, can
reach the infinitely distant future. Is this the end of time?

Not necessarily. Let's remember the analogy with the map again. On
our latitude-longitude map, there was an immense distortion around
the
north pole. Someone looking at such a map might come to all sorts of
ridiculous conclusions about the north pole. He might conclude, for
example, that it was a line. That's not his fault, though, it's the
coordinate system that's a problem in that area. If he just looked
at
a different map, like a map centered on the north pole, he wouldn't
come to such erroneous conclusions.

And it turns out that the problem at the event horizon was a
coordinate problem problem as well. Use the right coordinate system,
and time doesn't stop, and you can get to the singularity.



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(Mitchell) wrote in message . com...
(Titan Point) wrote in message . com...
(Mitchell) wrote in message . com...
Gravity is a continuum.

If there is a non-infinitesimal quantizing of the curved
space-time interval then this shortest distance of events
would seem to eliminate anything happening on any smaller
scale. NOTHING COULD HAPPEN THERE.

I define the infinitesimal as being a nonzero - the smallest of all
quantities. As opposed to the abscence of any quantity - or Zero.

MITCH RAEMSCH

Gravity seems to have a secret power - it could move a potentially
infinite mass. What kind of force can do this?
THE STRENGTH OF GRAVITY IS LIMITED IN ACCELERATION - TO LIGHT SPEED
BY EINSTEIN'S EQUIVALENCE PRINCIPLE.
Curved space-time is absolute. Einstein knew there was something wrong
with black holes. He knew that the time slowdown is absolute.
The end of General Relativity is not a singularity but is
instead the event horizon. If you claim that time stops there
you are claiming what about the inside? You cannot have it both ways.
To stop time is to end space - unified space-time cannot be split.

It is the same for a naked singularity or a Big Bang without gravity.
You cannot divorce any force from the whole. Otherwise what you have
cannot be said to be unified. And everything is unified from
the very begining and forever. Unification is time invariant.

When the first equations for black holes were solved they though
they saw matter dropping out of the universe. How true that would be.
By ending space-time at a singularity you could no longer have
anything. No mass or gravity
End time - End space - then you End Mass as well and end mass/energy
you end gravity. Obviously we do not see galaxies unraveling at their
centers so it is safe to say something else must happen.
I believe the solution is that matter converts to energy at the apex
of gravity's(limited)strength. That is that light comes out when
gravitational strength reaches a light speed acceleration equivalent.
Seems to fit the bill of what they say they see happening
where black holes ought to be.
There is a gravitational conversion of matter into energy(light)
recycling the mass as something even greater than a supernova.

-- Light Falls Everywhere Its At --
-- It never stops and gravity is ubiquitous --
-- The nature of light is in its name --
-- Its C squared lighter than matter --

I believe time has a speed a light speed to be exact.
The evidence of this is that you can catch up to it.
You catch up and it slows down.
This explains a mechanism behind Special Relativity.
You catch up to time.

I believe that times motion is what carries light around.
If you want to see how time moves look at a light bubble
with light going not only outward but also in ever direction
possible. That's time.
Mass bends the motion of time. Light falls because it is being
carried by a time whose motion is curving(making curved space).

The force that is expanding the universe is anti-gravity. It
is the opposite of gravity compressing space-time.
Compressing space-time slows light. Slowing time slows light.
I claim that the opposite can happen - that light accelerates.
Light accelerates where time speeds up or where anti-gravity
expands space-time.
Its a cosmological twist on special relativity.

Where mass slows time there is a force(motion)of gravity proportional
to the time slowdown. THIS IS AN INVISIBLE DIMENSION OF MOTION.
WE CANNOT SEE SPACE MOVE. We only see it move matter or when it
is resisted to create weight.
My gravity is dual. It is the cause of General Relativity.
A moving time bending around mass makes curved space-time motion.
This motion is a limited thing and is equivalent to accelerating
matter. The weight experienced in gravity is equivalent to the
weight experienced while accelerating - both in quantity and
in quality. This sums up the Einstein's equivalence principle.

The inconsistancy of GR with SR in the case of black holes
must be addressed. Matter falls at light speed at the event
horizon. You cannot get around this. Special Relativity and
and General Relativity must combine to eliminate light speed
freefall. They combine when the strength of gravity is understood
as an acceleration of which is limited. The strength of
gravity is limited. The motion of gravity is limited.

Freefall is special relativistic. When you add the increasing motions
while falling the all add up to something less(than lightspeed)
by relativistic additions of velocity.

I counted at least 20 wrong or fallacious statements in the above. Can
anyone do better?

If you are claiming everything I have written is false then
I guess I have done my job right.
Mitch Raemsch

I left something out. Another error in GR gravity.
At the event horizon there would be an infinite Einstein shift.
An infinite redshift? There are null energyless photons?
What nonsense.

(Mitchell) wrote in message om...
I left something out. Another error in GR gravity.
At the event horizon there would be an infinite Einstein shift.
An infinite redshift? There are null energyless photons?
What nonsense.

If someone observes light that has come from the event horizon of a
black hole, it will indeed be infinitely redshifted. (False = False)
= True. Think about it.

(Jim Black) wrote in message om...
(Mitchell) wrote in message om...
I left something out. Another error in GR gravity.
At the event horizon there would be an infinite Einstein shift.
An infinite redshift? There are null energyless photons?
What nonsense.

If someone observes light that has come from the event horizon of a
black hole, it will indeed be infinitely redshifted. (False = False)
= True. Think about it.

Then you are saying there is energyless light? A dead photon?
Poppycock.
The theory clearly breaks down at the event horizon and must
be replaced by a limited strength theory.
Get out of your imagination. People who work with imaginary
physics and who will not recognize it are the problem.
They are misleading themselves by thinking they have what they don't.

-- Time moves forward in all directions --
-- carrying light with it --

"Mitchell" wrote in message om...
(Jim Black) wrote in message om...
(Mitchell) wrote in message om...
I left something out. Another error in GR gravity.
At the event horizon there would be an infinite Einstein shift.
An infinite redshift? There are null energyless photons?
What nonsense.

If someone observes light that has come from the event horizon of a
black hole, it will indeed be infinitely redshifted. (False = False)
= True. Think about it.

Then you are saying there is energyless light? A dead photon?

No. You need to read more carefully.

Poppycock.

Indeed.

The theory clearly breaks down at the event horizon and must
be replaced by a limited strength theory.
Get out of your imagination. People who work with imaginary
physics and who will not recognize it are the problem.

It is you who are working imaginary problems. Think about it. (False
= False) = True. Garbage in, garbage out.

They are misleading themselves by thinking they have what they don't.

-- Time moves forward in all directions --
-- carrying light with it --

Jim Black wrote:

(Mitchell) wrote in message om...
I left something out. Another error in GR gravity.
At the event horizon there would be an infinite Einstein shift.
An infinite redshift? There are null energyless photons?
What nonsense.

If someone observes light that has come from the event horizon of a
black hole, it will indeed be infinitely redshifted. (False = False)
= True. Think about it.

Also, (False = True) = True!

Regards,
George