Thanks Bruce:

On Sunday, December 14, 2003, at 10:50 AM, bruce maccabee wrote:

..................


"Although I don't recall seeing the Walker document, I may have seen it
in the hundreds of pages of released information that I have collected
from the FBI, AF, Army Counterintelligence, etc. However, the main
point is that it "reads correctly" and probably is
valid. The fact is that the idea that the Germans might have developed
circular aircraft was carefully investigated by the Army and Air Force.
The Horton brothers were the "usual suspects," having worked on
such an aircraft design with a circular front before WWII. The AF
considered the possibility that the Russians had captured significant
German aeronautical information in 1945 and, by 1947,
had developed such craft to the point where they were able to fly them
around over the USA. Hence the CIC (counter intelligence corps) was
directed to contact German aeronautical scientists , notably the Horton
brothers, to find out just how far they had gotten. The story of
Twining's letter, the EEI which resulted from the letter, the
search for the Horton brothers, and how this all fits into saucer
history is told in Chapter 3 of THE UFO- FBI CONNECTION which you have.
Perhaps the most important aspects of this and related documents is that
they shod

(a) the AF clearly considered the sighted obects to be
real, solid flying craft with novel shape and capable of extreme
maneuvers and

(b) they already, by fall 1947, knew enough of the general features of
flying saucers to be able to write an EEI that listed the novel
characteristics, such as "flat bottom with extreme light reflecting
ability," general absence of sound, extreme maneuverability, absence of
exhaust trail, ability to disappear quickly by high speed (extreme
acceleration) of complete disintegration, and so on.

Most of this is consistent with the idea of exotic vacuum /\zpf
propulsion as in
http://qedcorp.com/APS/
What do you mean "complete disintegration" like disappearing into a
traversable wormhole throat?
Or like what Eric Davis reported happening at the NIDS Utah Ranch with
creature coming out of the "portal" from the parallel brane world next
door perhaps?


Bruce: "Thanks for the message. You wrote:

I received this today. Anyone know anything about this?
It sounds like Nick Cook's story?

I did not write the stuff below. I am not promoting it. I have no idea
if it is fact or fiction?

"One more thing.

In my studies since 10-23-1989 of UFO reports, ESP, synchronicity and
all things paranormal, I came across some declassifed UFO related
documents on the internet dated 11-10-1947. Anybody can access these.
These documents are in reference to the U.S government's interest in
Flying Saucers in regards German technology and all things involving
possible black operations and possible possession of Alien technology
by the German Nazi war machine. [04:05:20a.m. 12-12-03]


The
WALKER MEMO

APO 159
10 November 1947

VI-13-1006
D-198239
VI-1611.5
SUBJECT: Flying Saucers

To : Commanding Officer
Bayreuth Sub Region
Nurnberg Sub Region
Wurzberg Sub Region
Bamberg Sub Region
Regional Technical Specialist



1. Considerable material has been gathered by the Air Materiel
Command, WRIGHT FIELD, Ohio, concerning the appearance, description
and functioning of the object popularly known as "Flying Saucers". A
copy of the report from the Air Materiel Command is on file at this
Headquarters.
2. The opinion was expressed that some sort of object, such as the
flying saucer, did exist. At the present time, construction models
are being built for wind tunnel tests. It is further suspected that
the flying objects may have been developed from original plans and
experiments conducted by the Germans prior to the capitulation.
Headquarters, 970th CIO Detachment, European Command is desirous of
locating German Aircraft specialists and test pilots who might have
some knowledge of similar aircraft. It is requested you canvass your
area for possible identity of aircraft specialists or test pilots
known in your area with such knowledge. This canvass is to be made
discreetly and to conceal our interest in the subject. If any are
located, a copy of the Air Materiel Command report with specific
EEI's will be forwarded to permit further interrogation and test of

BSM NOTE: NOTE: EEI = Essential Elements of Information

knowledge.
3. This canvass, both of files and sources of information, should be
begun as soon as possible. Your initial report is due this
Headquarters by:


Suspense Date
12 Dec 47
BY ORDER OF LT COLONEL WALKER

[Signed]
WILLIAM E LAHNED JR.
Special Agent CIC
Operations

Lt Col Walker sent this memo out to his field commands in response to
the Letter from Gen Twining.

BSM NOTE: Twining's letter of Sept 23, 1947 in which he says, regarding
flying saucers,
"..(they) are real and not visionary or fictitious." He recommended,
in this letter, that a special project be set up to study the saucer
situation. This was, in fact, set up as Project Sign in early 1948."


This order for a discreet investigation
eventually reached the Berlin office of the Army's S-2 (Intelligence)
branch. The Berlin Office was able to track down and report on the
war-time and post war activities of the Horton brothers, who worked
with Messerschmidt during WWII to develop the Flying


THERE WERE OTHER DOUCMENTS THAT FOLLOWED BELOW IS A PARITAL ONE YOU
CAN FIND THIS ON THE INTERNET. I ONLY INCLUDE IT BECAUSE OF THE
DATE : 12-16-1947. [Close to 12-17]



SECRET

HEADQUARTERS BERLIN COMMAND
OFFICE OF MILITARY GOVERNMENT FOR GERMANY (US)
BERLIN, GERMANY

S-2 Branch
APO 742, US ARMY
16 December 47

Subject: Horton Brothers (Flying Saucers)

To : Deputy Director of Intelligence
European Command, Frankfurt
APO 757, US Army

Jack Sarfatti wrote:

Thanks Bruce:

On Sunday, December 14, 2003, at 10:50 AM, bruce maccabee wrote:

.................


"Although I don't recall seeing the Walker document, I may have seen it
in the hundreds of pages of released information that I have collected
from the FBI, AF, Army Counterintelligence, etc. However, the main
point is that it "reads correctly" and probably is
valid. The fact is that the idea that the Germans might have developed
circular aircraft was carefully investigated by the Army and Air Force.
The Horton brothers were the "usual suspects," having worked on
such an aircraft design with a circular front before WWII. The AF
considered the possibility that the Russians had captured significant
German aeronautical information in 1945 and, by 1947,
had developed such craft to the point where they were able to fly them
around over the USA. Hence the CIC (counter intelligence corps) was
directed to contact German aeronautical scientists , notably the Horton
brothers, to find out just how far they had gotten. The story of
Twining's letter, the EEI which resulted from the letter, the
search for the Horton brothers, and how this all fits into saucer
history is told in Chapter 3 of THE UFO- FBI CONNECTION which you have.
Perhaps the most important aspects of this and related documents is that
they shod

(a) the AF clearly considered the sighted obects to be
real, solid flying craft with novel shape and capable of extreme
maneuvers and

(b) they already, by fall 1947, knew enough of the general features of
flying saucers to be able to write an EEI that listed the novel
characteristics, such as "flat bottom with extreme light reflecting
ability," general absence of sound, extreme maneuverability, absence of
exhaust trail, ability to disappear quickly by high speed (extreme
acceleration) of complete disintegration, and so on.

Most of this is consistent with the idea of exotic vacuum /\zpf
propulsion as in
http://qedcorp.com/APS/
What do you mean "complete disintegration" like disappearing into a
traversable wormhole throat?
Or like what Eric Davis reported happening at the NIDS Utah Ranch with
creature coming out of the "portal" from the parallel brane world next
door perhaps?


Bruce: "Thanks for the message. You wrote:

I received this today. Anyone know anything about this?
It sounds like Nick Cook's story?

I did not write the stuff below. I am not promoting it. I have no idea
if it is fact or fiction?

"One more thing.

In my studies since 10-23-1989 of UFO reports, ESP, synchronicity and
all things paranormal, I came across some declassifed UFO related
documents on the internet dated 11-10-1947. Anybody can access these.
These documents are in reference to the U.S government's interest in
Flying Saucers in regards German technology and all things involving
possible black operations and possible possession of Alien technology
by the German Nazi war machine. [04:05:20a.m. 12-12-03]


The
WALKER MEMO

APO 159
10 November 1947

VI-13-1006
D-198239
VI-1611.5
SUBJECT: Flying Saucers

To : Commanding Officer
Bayreuth Sub Region
Nurnberg Sub Region
Wurzberg Sub Region
Bamberg Sub Region
Regional Technical Specialist



1. Considerable material has been gathered by the Air Materiel
Command, WRIGHT FIELD, Ohio, concerning the appearance, description
and functioning of the object popularly known as "Flying Saucers". A
copy of the report from the Air Materiel Command is on file at this
Headquarters.
2. The opinion was expressed that some sort of object, such as the
flying saucer, did exist. At the present time, construction models
are being built for wind tunnel tests. It is further suspected that
the flying objects may have been developed from original plans and
experiments conducted by the Germans prior to the capitulation.
Headquarters, 970th CIO Detachment, European Command is desirous of
locating German Aircraft specialists and test pilots who might have
some knowledge of similar aircraft. It is requested you canvass your
area for possible identity of aircraft specialists or test pilots
known in your area with such knowledge. This canvass is to be made
discreetly and to conceal our interest in the subject. If any are
located, a copy of the Air Materiel Command report with specific
EEI's will be forwarded to permit further interrogation and test of

BSM NOTE: NOTE: EEI = Essential Elements of Information

knowledge.
3. This canvass, both of files and sources of information, should be
begun as soon as possible. Your initial report is due this
Headquarters by:


Suspense Date
12 Dec 47
BY ORDER OF LT COLONEL WALKER

[Signed]
WILLIAM E LAHNED JR.
Special Agent CIC
Operations

Lt Col Walker sent this memo out to his field commands in response to
the Letter from Gen Twining.

BSM NOTE: Twining's letter of Sept 23, 1947 in which he says, regarding
flying saucers,
"..(they) are real and not visionary or fictitious." He recommended,
in this letter, that a special project be set up to study the saucer
situation. This was, in fact, set up as Project Sign in early 1948."


This order for a discreet investigation
eventually reached the Berlin office of the Army's S-2 (Intelligence)
branch. The Berlin Office was able to track down and report on the
war-time and post war activities of the Horton brothers, who worked
with Messerschmidt during WWII to develop the Flying


THERE WERE OTHER DOUCMENTS THAT FOLLOWED BELOW IS A PARITAL ONE YOU
CAN FIND THIS ON THE INTERNET. I ONLY INCLUDE IT BECAUSE OF THE
DATE : 12-16-1947. [Close to 12-17]



SECRET

HEADQUARTERS BERLIN COMMAND
OFFICE OF MILITARY GOVERNMENT FOR GERMANY (US)
BERLIN, GERMANY

S-2 Branch
APO 742, US ARMY
16 December 47

Subject: Horton Brothers (Flying Saucers)

To : Deputy Director of Intelligence
European Command, Frankfurt
APO 757, US Army

Electrons and other parts of the atom
distribute themselves in concentric CON-PLANAR
rings (which precess very rapidly to give a
spherical presence).

Thus each atom is at any one instant in a single
2-dimensional plane.

Saucers make a spinning field which gets
more and more of their atoms into the same plane
depending on the intensity of the field.

The more atoms are instantaneously in the
same plane at the same time, the less inertia
the mass has in the direction normal to
that plane.

Decrease your inertia far enough and
the power of a thought could move you.

John

In article , says...

Thanks Bruce:

On Sunday, December 14, 2003, at 10:50 AM, bruce maccabee wrote:

.................


"Although I don't recall seeing the Walker document, I may have seen it
in the hundreds of pages of released information that I have collected
from the FBI, AF, Army Counterintelligence, etc. However, the main
point is that it "reads correctly" and probably is
valid. The fact is that the idea that the Germans might have developed
circular aircraft was carefully investigated by the Army and Air Force.

Yes they did. It is well known, they were more like hover craft,
than electro gravitic craft. They had a central turbine.

Thats a non strater. Unless you are willing to admit that there
are other time-lines where they actually did intercept and
reverse engineer alien craft.

The Horton brothers were the "usual suspects," having worked on
such an aircraft design with a circular front before WWII. The AF
considered the possibility that the Russians had captured significant
German aeronautical information in 1945 and, by 1947,
had developed such craft to the point where they were able to fly them
around over the USA. Hence the CIC (counter intelligence corps) was
directed to contact German aeronautical scientists , notably the Horton
brothers, to find out just how far they had gotten. The story of
Twining's letter, the EEI which resulted from the letter, the
search for the Horton brothers, and how this all fits into saucer
history is told in Chapter 3 of THE UFO- FBI CONNECTION which you have.
Perhaps the most important aspects of this and related documents is that
they shod


Most of the NAZI rocket scientists defected to America in this
time-line. Judging by their comments, when they were exposed to alien
technology, it is unlikely that the Nazis had that technology.

(a) the AF clearly considered the sighted obects to be
real, solid flying craft with novel shape and capable of extreme
maneuvers and

(b) they already, by fall 1947, knew enough of the general features of
flying saucers to be able to write an EEI that listed the novel
characteristics, such as "flat bottom with extreme light reflecting
ability," general absence of sound, extreme maneuverability, absence of
exhaust trail, ability to disappear quickly by high speed (extreme
acceleration) of complete disintegration, and so on.

Most of this is consistent with the idea of exotic vacuum /\zpf
propulsion as in
http://qedcorp.com/APS/
What do you mean "complete disintegration" like disappearing into a
traversable wormhole throat?
Or like what Eric Davis reported happening at the NIDS Utah Ranch with
creature coming out of the "portal" from the parallel brane world next
door perhaps?


It is more like in the Hutchison Effect, where metal turned transparent
as documented by American European and Canadian governments.

It is the shifting of the atomic metabolism of the craft and its
contents onto another dimensional plane. Offset from ours
like a paralell universe, except there is not just one
paralell universe there are n-dimensional universes as per
Hilbert space or hyper space.



Bruce: "Thanks for the message. You wrote:

I received this today. Anyone know anything about this?
It sounds like Nick Cook's story?

I did not write the stuff below. I am not promoting it. I have no idea
if it is fact or fiction?

Nick Cook is/was the editor for Janes. He is not exactly a fiction writer.

Janes is of course the authority on military hardware.


"One more thing.

In my studies since 10-23-1989 of UFO reports, ESP, synchronicity and
all things paranormal, I came across some declassifed UFO related
documents on the internet dated 11-10-1947. Anybody can access these.
These documents are in reference to the U.S government's interest in
Flying Saucers in regards German technology and all things involving
possible black operations and possible possession of Alien technology
by the German Nazi war machine. [04:05:20a.m. 12-12-03]


I have heard that they recovered a saucer in the 30's but I think that
it is just a fable because Von Braun and Oppenheimer did not know
about the technology until they came to the US as far as I know.

The Soviets on the other hand did know and did have contact.
According to sources, both the US and the Soviets were provided
with the necessary technology to create a standoff, a cold war,
after consideration of the best way to prevent the use
of nuclear weaponry, until man has sufficient technological
resources, to handle living with the bomb. That meant increased
world wide communication systems such as the Internet etc.


The
WALKER MEMO

APO 159
10 November 1947

VI-13-1006
D-198239
VI-1611.5
SUBJECT: Flying Saucers

To : Commanding Officer
Bayreuth Sub Region
Nurnberg Sub Region
Wurzberg Sub Region
Bamberg Sub Region
Regional Technical Specialist



1. Considerable material has been gathered by the Air Materiel
Command, WRIGHT FIELD, Ohio, concerning the appearance, description
and functioning of the object popularly known as "Flying Saucers". A
copy of the report from the Air Materiel Command is on file at this
Headquarters.
2. The opinion was expressed that some sort of object, such as the
flying saucer, did exist. At the present time, construction models
are being built for wind tunnel tests. It is further suspected that
the flying objects may have been developed from original plans and
experiments conducted by the Germans prior to the capitulation.
Headquarters, 970th CIO Detachment, European Command is desirous of
locating German Aircraft specialists and test pilots who might have
some knowledge of similar aircraft. It is requested you canvass your
area for possible identity of aircraft specialists or test pilots
known in your area with such knowledge. This canvass is to be made
discreetly and to conceal our interest in the subject. If any are
located, a copy of the Air Materiel Command report with specific
EEI's will be forwarded to permit further interrogation and test of

BSM NOTE: NOTE: EEI = Essential Elements of Information

knowledge.
3. This canvass, both of files and sources of information, should be
begun as soon as possible. Your initial report is due this
Headquarters by:


Suspense Date
12 Dec 47
BY ORDER OF LT COLONEL WALKER

[Signed]
WILLIAM E LAHNED JR.
Special Agent CIC
Operations

Lt Col Walker sent this memo out to his field commands in response to
the Letter from Gen Twining.

BSM NOTE: Twining's letter of Sept 23, 1947 in which he says, regarding
flying saucers,
"..(they) are real and not visionary or fictitious." He recommended,
in this letter, that a special project be set up to study the saucer
situation. This was, in fact, set up as Project Sign in early 1948."


This order for a discreet investigation
eventually reached the Berlin office of the Army's S-2 (Intelligence)
branch. The Berlin Office was able to track down and report on the
war-time and post war activities of the Horton brothers, who worked
with Messerschmidt during WWII to develop the Flying


THERE WERE OTHER DOUCMENTS THAT FOLLOWED BELOW IS A PARITAL ONE YOU
CAN FIND THIS ON THE INTERNET. I ONLY INCLUDE IT BECAUSE OF THE
DATE : 12-16-1947. [Close to 12-17]



SECRET

HEADQUARTERS BERLIN COMMAND
OFFICE OF MILITARY GOVERNMENT FOR GERMANY (US)
BERLIN, GERMANY

S-2 Branch
APO 742, US ARMY
16 December 47

Subject: Horton Brothers (Flying Saucers)

To : Deputy Director of Intelligence
European Command, Frankfurt
APO 757, US Army



I think there is some confusion here between the hover type vehicle
with a central fan type turbine, as opposed to the disks
which were given to the US and Russia. And possibly retrieved
in Missouri in 1941, and Corona in 47. The one in Roswell
was not a disk, but was more like a shuttle craft. A glider.
It had no power unit at all. The one in Corona, was found by
a cowboy and his girlfriend in a pickup truck, and he gave
a good account of the insides of the thing, and that
account is on the net somewhere. You can hear his daughter
on real video tell of the find.

But I have also heard that originally contact was made in the
thirties, and that is when the seeds were sown, to involve the US
in WWII, to prevent Nazi Germnany from winning the war,
in order to change the timeline. The bombing of Japan had
something to do with it as well. The greys that arrived looked
like evolved Japanese, and I am specualating but I think
that the bobming of Hiroshima and Nagasaki were to further
alter the timeline, perhaps because Japan started the nuclear
war which led to nuclear winter, and they went underground and
survived to come back in time from a long time in the future, after
they had evolved into these Greys, without intestines, and
no digestive system, and with very frail bodies and large heads.

There are numerous reports of a library book, from the future,
which tells of a historical account, found at Roswell New Mexico.

That is one book, the world should be allowed to see.

The danger isn't over yet by any means.

For some good documents on the whole subject, you can visit
http://www.majesticdocuments.com/


To here the captain in charge of the situation at S4, listen
to
Art Bell - Steve - MIB-TimeTraveler - (09-11-97).mp3
on Kazaa Lite