Hello all;

I'm looking at a sales pitch for a device where you wrap a coil of wire
around a pipe,
and their gizmo is supposed to prevent scale from forming, and soften/remove
hard scale
already established.

They say the process is this:

"The 'xxx' system utilizes a principal of Induced Resonance to neutralize
the positively charged calcium particles by disrupting their valence shell
using a complex modulated waveform. This waveform is produced by the 'xxx'
signal generator and is applied to the pipe being treated via an induction
coil. As the signal expands and collapses on the induction coil it
penetrates piping to it's core and creates a flux field that extend beyond
the physical dimension of the coil, effectively tripling the area of
induction"

"The 'xxx' signal passes through mineral laden fluids causing the dissolved
calcium to be oscillated from positive to negative thousands of times per
second, thus separating the established valence attraction and forcing new
configurations to the molecular structure of the water. In its neutralized
condition the calcium carbonate is converted to an insoluble bicarbonate
which is very brittle and without polar attraction to the surfaces it comes
in contact with. Although the waters measurable hardness remains the same,
its scale forming tendencies are drastically reduced, or completely
eliminated. Perhaps the greatest advantage to this type of treatment is a
measurable reduction in the treated waters surface tension (solubility). In
its untreated state, water molecules tend to form agglomerates (clusters)
via hydrogen bonds. A hydrogen atom of one water molecule has a natural
attraction to the oxygen atom of a neighboring water molecule. When these
groups of water molecules pass through the 'xxx' waveform, the hydrogen
bonds (links) are instantly broken, creating more free water molecules."

They also claim
"In addition to de-scaling, the free water molecules (wetter water) provide
other benefits. Home owners and industrial laundries report reduced amounts
of detergent required and overall improved laundering results. Basically,
anything that is added to the treated water, (i.e. chlorine in a pool),
becomes more effective, requiring smaller doses."
"The 'xxx' system removes the effects of water hardness without physically
touching or chemically altering the water in any way. This means
functionally "softened", but chemically unchanged water that is absolutely
safe to use, provided that your water is considered safe by other industry
standards".


I want to file this with fuel-line magnets, browns gas, et al, but the
company I work for is seriously considering purchasing these things.
I'd welcome any comments anyone has on the above claims.

Thanks,

K. Jones

On Wed, 26 Nov 2003 16:57:41 -0500, K. Jones wrote:
Hello all;

I'm looking at a sales pitch for a device where you wrap a coil of wire
around a pipe,
and their gizmo is supposed to prevent scale from forming, and soften/remove
hard scale
already established.

They say the process is this:

snip creative claims

I want to file this with fuel-line magnets, browns gas, et al, but the
company I work for is seriously considering purchasing these things.
I'd welcome any comments anyone has on the above claims.

Several of these devices were tested by Consumer Reports and none of them
did anything.


--
- Laurel * * * http://amberdine.com

"K. Jones" wrote:

Hello all;

I'm looking at a sales pitch for a device where you wrap a coil of wire
around a pipe,
and their gizmo is supposed to prevent scale from forming, and soften/remove
hard scale
already established.

They say the process is this:

[snip]

It's New Age crap. Magnetic fields do not affect scale formation in
controlled tests.

--
Uncle Al
http://www.mazepath.com/uncleal/
(Toxic URL! Unsafe for children and most mammals)
"Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?" The Net!

"Uncle Al" wrote in message
...
"K. Jones" wrote:

Hello all;

I'm looking at a sales pitch for a device where you wrap a coil of wire
around a pipe,
and their gizmo is supposed to prevent scale from forming, and
soften/remove
hard scale
already established.

They say the process is this:

[snip]

It's New Age crap. Magnetic fields do not affect scale formation in
controlled tests.


How about if I wrap Q-Ray bracelets around the pipes?

in article , Uncle Al at
wrote on 11/26/03 4:47 PM:

"K. Jones" wrote:

Hello all;

I'm looking at a sales pitch for a device where you wrap a coil of wire
around a pipe,
and their gizmo is supposed to prevent scale from forming, and soften/remove
hard scale
already established.

They say the process is this:

[snip]

It's New Age crap. Magnetic fields do not affect scale formation in
controlled tests.

Here is an idea for a new computer based invention. You type in all the
wonderful words used to describe one of these too god to be true devices.
the computer figures out how to operate a various pieces of computer
controlled equipment so that in the end, this equipment does what the
advertising says it will do.

Someone can make gazillions!

Bill

Thanks Laurel, I didn't realize Consumer Reports had done any testing of
these things.


K. Jones

"Laurel Amberdine" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 26 Nov 2003 16:57:41 -0500, K. Jones
wrote:
Hello all;

I'm looking at a sales pitch for a device where you wrap a coil of wire
around a pipe,
and their gizmo is supposed to prevent scale from forming, and
soften/remove
hard scale
already established.

They say the process is this:

snip creative claims

I want to file this with fuel-line magnets, browns gas, et al, but the
company I work for is seriously considering purchasing these things.
I'd welcome any comments anyone has on the above claims.

Several of these devices were tested by Consumer Reports and none of them
did anything.


--
- Laurel * * * http://amberdine.com

Thanks Al.

Do you know of any controlled tests, accessible on the web, that I could
cite?

K. Jones

"Uncle Al" wrote in message
...
"K. Jones" wrote:

Hello all;

I'm looking at a sales pitch for a device where you wrap a coil of wire
around a pipe,
and their gizmo is supposed to prevent scale from forming, and
soften/remove
hard scale
already established.

They say the process is this:

[snip]

It's New Age crap. Magnetic fields do not affect scale formation in
controlled tests.

--
Uncle Al
http://www.mazepath.com/uncleal/
(Toxic URL! Unsafe for children and most mammals)
"Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?" The Net!

"K. Jones" wrote in message ...
Hello all;

I'm looking at a sales pitch for a device where you
wrap a coil of wire around a pipe, and their gizmo
is supposed to prevent scale from forming, and
soften/remove hard scale already established.

Magnetic and electronic descalers are a long-standing
scam. It has been going on so long that the sales pitch
for most products can be used as lesson in how to sell
snake oil. See my notes below.

Firstly a nice scientific introduction. Most of the next
paragraph is either correct or meaningless.

"The 'xxx' system utilizes a principal of Induced Resonance to neutralize
the positively charged calcium particles by disrupting their valence shell
using a complex modulated waveform. This waveform is produced by the 'xxx'
signal generator and is applied to the pipe being treated via an induction
coil. As the signal expands and collapses on the induction coil it
penetrates piping to it's core and creates a flux field that extend beyond
the physical dimension of the coil, effectively tripling the area of
induction"

"The 'xxx' signal passes through mineral laden fluids causing the dissolved
calcium to be oscillated from positive to negative thousands of times per
second, thus separating the established valence attraction and forcing new
configurations to the molecular structure of the water. In its neutralized
condition the calcium carbonate is converted to an insoluble bicarbonate
which is very brittle and without polar attraction to the surfaces it comes
in contact with.

So far so good

Although the waters measurable hardness remains the same,
its scale forming tendencies are drastically reduced, or completely
eliminated.

Aha! The vital non-sequitur. The idea is that you are
supposed to be embarrassed by not being able to see how
this effect follows from the introduction above.

Perhaps the greatest advantage to this type of treatment is a
measurable reduction in the treated waters surface tension (solubility). In
its untreated state, water molecules tend to form agglomerates (clusters)
via hydrogen bonds. A hydrogen atom of one water molecule has a natural
attraction to the oxygen atom of a neighboring water molecule. When these
groups of water molecules pass through the 'xxx' waveform, the hydrogen
bonds (links) are instantly broken, creating more free water molecules."

They also claim
"In addition to de-scaling, the free water molecules (wetter water) provide
other benefits. Home owners and industrial laundries report reduced amounts
of detergent required and overall improved laundering results. Basically,
anything that is added to the treated water, (i.e. chlorine in a pool),
becomes more effective, requiring smaller doses."
"The 'xxx' system removes the effects of water hardness without physically
touching or chemically altering the water in any way. This means
functionally "softened", but chemically unchanged water that is absolutely
safe to use, provided that your water is considered safe by other industry
standards".

The benefits of reducing scale. All true, of course.
The only problem is that the product does not reduce
scale.


I want to file this with fuel-line magnets, browns gas, et al,

Do so. I still have small collection of similar products which
I file under 'B' for 'Barge pole - do not touch with a'

but the
company I work for is seriously considering purchasing these things.
I'd welcome any comments anyone has on the above claims.

These are expert scams and continue to take in
new victims.

Martin Hogbin

"K. Jones" wrote in message ...
Thanks Al.

Do you know of any controlled tests, accessible on the web, that I could
cite?


This is usually a problem. The sellers of these products
obviously have no interest in properly controlled tests.
To do such a test, a third party would therefore need
to buy the product.

There is usually plenty of anecdotal evidence, carefully
engineered by the scammers.

Martin Hogbin

K. Jones wrote:
Hello all;

I'm looking at a sales pitch for a device where you wrap a coil of wire
around a pipe,
and their gizmo is supposed to prevent scale from forming, and soften/remove
hard scale
already established.

They say the process is this:

"The 'xxx' system utilizes a principal of Induced Resonance to neutralize

"A _principal_". Should be "principle". Words mean
things, even to copywriters. And exactly _which_ "principle
of Induced Resonance"? Several come to mind, none of which
are applicable. Also, beware inappropriate capitalization;
it looks so 19th century...

the positively charged calcium particles by disrupting their valence shell
using a complex modulated waveform. This waveform is produced by the 'xxx'

What frequency does this thing run at (waveform is
irrelevant)? Do the photons of this field have enough energy
to do _anything_ to a calcium valence electron? If yes, how
is yanking the valence electrons around supposed to
neutralize the calcium ions? That requires adding electrons,
which happens naturally by the formation of the stuff that
causes scale. Do your bosses think the thing just spews
electrons into the water to neutralize the ions?

signal generator and is applied to the pipe being treated via an induction
coil. As the signal expands and collapses on the induction coil it
penetrates piping to it's core and creates a flux field that extend beyond
the physical dimension of the coil, effectively tripling the area of
induction"

Are your bosses just technogeeky enough to recognize the
words, but not know how they're supposed to go together?

What about the field that extends _outward_ from the
coil? What's it doing to the air's constituents? Does the
EPA know about this?

For that matter, why isn't it weakening the pipe? I mean,
it can neutralize calcium _and_ break hydrogen bonds
(below), so it must affect _everything_, right?

"The 'xxx' signal passes through mineral laden fluids causing the dissolved
calcium to be oscillated from positive to negative thousands of times per
second, thus separating the established valence attraction and forcing new
configurations to the molecular structure of the water. In its neutralized

Ooh, restructured water!

condition the calcium carbonate is converted to an insoluble bicarbonate
which is very brittle and without polar attraction to the surfaces it comes
in contact with. Although the waters measurable hardness remains the same,

"It's undetectable by old-fashioned standard technology"!

its scale forming tendencies are drastically reduced, or completely
eliminated. Perhaps the greatest advantage to this type of treatment is a
measurable reduction in the treated waters surface tension (solubility). In

Measurable by what method?

its untreated state, water molecules tend to form agglomerates (clusters)
via hydrogen bonds. A hydrogen atom of one water molecule has a natural
attraction to the oxygen atom of a neighboring water molecule. When these
groups of water molecules pass through the 'xxx' waveform, the hydrogen
bonds (links) are instantly broken, creating more free water molecules."

Gee, that would change a few other things too, wouldn't
it? Like say, the density of the water...

They also claim
"In addition to de-scaling, the free water molecules (wetter water) provide
other benefits. Home owners and industrial laundries report reduced amounts
of detergent required and overall improved laundering results. Basically,
anything that is added to the treated water, (i.e. chlorine in a pool),
becomes more effective, requiring smaller doses."

Ask for some actual numbers, how they were obtained, and
by whom.

"The 'xxx' system removes the effects of water hardness without physically
touching or chemically altering the water in any way. This means
functionally "softened", but chemically unchanged water that is absolutely
safe to use, provided that your water is considered safe by other industry
standards".

"It's undetectable by old-fashioned standard technology"!

I want to file this with fuel-line magnets, browns gas, et al, but the
company I work for is seriously considering purchasing these things.

Why?

I'd welcome any comments anyone has on the above claims.

They can't dazzle you, so they're trying to baffle you.

Mark L. Fergerson