"amanda" wrote in message
om...


Obviously you cannot understand my point. Let me repharse ot for you.
A people secure in themselves do not need stupid tests to know that
they are intelligent people, i.e no amount of brainwashing from the
colonial masters that the natives were inferior to the colonial
masters has affected these people because they knew who they were.


Whether an individual considers him or herself to be
intelligent is mostly irrelevant from the point of view
of someone else looking to hire or admit candidates of
of a desired standard to their organization.

That is why there are intelligence tests.

If you want to play in the sandbox with the big kids,
you have to play by their rules or head home to mommy.
She'll be more than happy to reinforce your ego no
matter what your handicap.

Now..accuse me that I still have grudge against the colonialists.

Why? Did you have a grudge before? Or are you just
trying to pick a fight?

"amanda" wrote in message
om...
"Greg Neill" wrote in message
.. .
"amanda" wrote in message
om...

I don't browse sci.chem group regularly either. So when I broswe the
posts once in a while and see some supposedy intelligent people from
these 3 groups talking about IQ tests as a ver important tests (with
some seeing it as the ultimate test to determine human intelligence),
I get very disappointed.

So let's see; in your opinion, talking about IQ tests is
an indication of low intelligence or some social backwardness?

Unbelievably childish response.

So then, why are you disappointed when you see "supposedly
intelligent people" talking about IQ tests?

"Greg Neill" wrote in message ...
"amanda" wrote in message
om...


Obviously you cannot understand my point. Let me repharse ot for you.
A people secure in themselves do not need stupid tests to know that
they are intelligent people, i.e no amount of brainwashing from the
colonial masters that the natives were inferior to the colonial
masters has affected these people because they knew who they were.


Whether an individual considers him or herself to be
intelligent is mostly irrelevant from the point of view
of someone else looking to hire or admit candidates of
of a desired standard to their organization.


That is why there are intelligence tests.

You mean people with the big stick wins.


If you want to play in the sandbox with the big kids,
you have to play by their rules or head home to mommy.
Getting personal, huh?

She'll be more than happy to reinforce your ego no
matter what your handicap.
If I were white, you would not be saying this to me, would you? Talk
about "your ego".


Now..accuse me that I still have grudge against the colonialists.

Why? Did you have a grudge before?

Who wouldn't against the thieves?

Or are you just trying to pick a fight?

Rather, I was trying to prevent one.

"amanda" wrote in message
om...
Rich wrote in message
...

It's interesting that in the Asian countries, the inferiority of
non-Asians is still widely accepted and believed.

Now, where did you get that idea? I didn't say that, did I?

Are you claiming to be the only source of information?

"hanson" wrote in message k.net...
"amanda" wrote in message
om...
not all Asians are equal. And the
Japanese thinks (may be not so much anymore)
they are superior to all other Asians.

AHahahhaah.....ahahahaha.....easy babe, easy. This is a
hilarious chapter in the annals of human behavior.....

Serious Japanese insistence about their superiority reaches
back into the mist of time.........ever since the two peoples
diverged. According to the Japanese there was that Japanese
Princess who ****ed with and got impregnated by a monkey.
Their offspring became the m/patriarch of all the Chinese
to come.............meanwhile on the Asian mainland the lore
of yore insists that in the grey mist of time there existed a
horny Chinese Princess that ****ed with and got impregnated
by a monkey. Their off spring became the m/patriarch of
all the Japanese to come.............Meanwhile back in those
times of bygone wonders the Jewish proboscis superiority
was established by their claim to be God's chosen people,
to which the Pope's and his troops later on objected to
and retorted that God had given this torch to Jesus and his
Xian Church was the superior gig now, which left the Yiddles
in the dust.
So, while in the West the good folks established exclusive
superiority over others by telling their God(s) what to do, the
much more practically inclined Asians achieved the same goal
by the insistence on some gross bestiality, a threat that was
suffiecnt for them to get to the top of the pecking order.
Ain't it a wonderful world..........AHhahahahaha.....ahahaahnson

PS: somebody bring forth such lores about other cultures'
orginal attempts and explanations which were needed to give
them their raison d'etre at the top.

Long time ago, I read in a book about the Karen of Burma (the book was
about Christian missionary in Burma) where it said that the Karen had
this folklo They had a word that sounds like "Yahweh" and that they
were waiting for someone to bring the message of Yahweh. What the
author meant was that they were waiting for Christianity instead of
adopting Bhuddism from the Burman, their rivals. Never mind that there
are mnay Karen who are Bhuddists.

By the way note that when the American missionary (Judson) arrived to
Rangoon (in the early period of the British days in Burma), the first
convert was a Karen man.

I read that 13 years ago and didn't think of the possibility that it
could just be a manufactured folklore. Now I am not sure.

Since then I have heard many such stories where it was always the
white man usually with his message of Yahweh, reaching to those ....

Rich wrote in message ...
amanda replied:
Rich wrote in message ...

amanda replied:

Rich wrote in message ...


amanda replied:


I have been biting my tongue about the IQ test but I can't any more.

How reliable is a test that use the term "Asian" to represent the most
diverse of ethnic and cultural groups?

Are you Asian?

Yes. Not oriental though but grew up in that region.

So you recognize and understand the word. It has utility and meaning.

Why do you get so upset about it?

Many hate the word "American" and raise all manner is idiotic arguments
as to why it is wrong (and most of them defend the term "native American").
Do you have similar issues with the word "American", or issues like the
ones you have with the word "Asian"?

What gave you the idea that I was upset about the term "Asian"?

You're entire original post, other than the first sentence.

My only point was that IQ tests to determine people's intelligence are bs.

Their inventor, years ago, invented them not to determine intelligence,
but as a test for slow learners. He had cautions against using the test
as it's used today.



Nevertheless, the notion that they are totally worthless is also worth
examining. The poster 'Uncle Al' (I think it was him) said that they measure
your ability to take IQ tests but that's naught but a tautology. IQ tests
don't tale place in a vacuum and students should have learned something from
all those years in school.

Do you think that all tests are worthless? some are worthless? Somewhere
in-between?

Because of the way the IQ tests are being used today, I didn't bother
to check the worthiness of it.

I guess it is as worthy as those standardized tests, namely, GRE,
GMAT, LSAT, MCAT, etc.. In another word, just like those standardized
tests, it is designed for a specific group of people.




Rich

amanda replied:
Rich wrote in message ...

amanda replied:

"Greg Neill" wrote in message ...


"amanda" wrote in message
le.com...



What gave you the idea that I was upset about the term "Asian"?

My only point was that IQ tests to determine people's intelligence are

bs.

Ah, of course. It would be far better indeed to administer
intelligence tests rather than IQ tests to determine people's
intelligence, right?

Really, you sound like someone who is disappointed by their
own results on such a test.

I knew that someone would come up with that stupid opinion. It just
happens to be you. Sorry about that

Don't you realize that us Asians don't need the tests invented by
non-Asians to find out whether we are intellgent or not?

It was only at the turn of 2oth century that the Western World
started to reliaze that Asians are not inferior to them

It's interesting that in the Asian countries, the inferiority of
non-Asians is still widely accepted and believed.

Now, where did you get that idea?

Everything I've read my and about various Asian cultures.

I didn't say that, did I?

I didn't say you did, did I?

There is no attempt for or desire for reciprocity.

as they have been told by the 19th century European racists

Is there an Asian country which is not racist?

Whya re you talking abput cpuntries. Why not individuals?

Cause it's not just individuals, it's a cultural thing.
Why don't you talk about individual Americans?

Just look at the nice
things high Japanese govt officials have said about Americans.

who believed that they were superior to all other humans.

As do all Asian races currently.

Currently is the keyword but you are wrong to generalize all Asians.

So you say.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/entertain...iz/2582833.stm

Tuesday, 17 December, 2002, 09:35 GMT
'Anti-Asian' Brad Pitt advert banned

A car advert featuring Brad Pitt has been banned in Malaysia
because it is "an insult to Asians", according to reports
in the country.

The government ordered the ads to be pulled because non-Asian
faces would "plant a sense of inferiority among Asians", the
county's deputy information minister Zainuddin Maidin told
national news agency Bernama.

Aren't our own people handsome enough?
Zainuddin Maidin Deputy information minister

The adverts, for Toyota Altis cars, ran on television, billboards
and in newspapers across Asia, and it was reported that the
posters became a target for fans who wanted them for their
bedroom walls.

"Why must we use their faces in our advertisements?" Mr Zainuddin
said, according to the agency.

"Aren't our own people handsome enough?"

He added: "We cancelled the ads because they were considered
an insult to Asians."

Pitt, one of the biggest stars in Hollywood, was last seen on
the big screen as a smooth-talking criminal in Ocean's Eleven.

He is married to Friends star Jennifer Aniston, who fell foul
of Malaysian censors earlier in the year when they banned an
episode of the comedy because they said it would encourage
promiscuity.

Aniston has said she expects the show to end, and is planning
start a family with Pitt.

In reaction to speculation that the next series of Friends
would be the last, Aniston said: "In my mind, I'm done."

"I want to start my family," she told United States magazine
Entertainment Weekly.

The Hollywood couple wed in a million-dollar ceremony in Malibu
in July 2000.

She won a prestigious Emmy award for best comedy actress for
her role in the hit series earlier in the year - but there is
talk that she may get more awards for her latest film, The Good Girl.

In it, she plays an adulterous and depressed Texan shop assistant,
and the film has taken $14m (£8.75m) at US box offices.

"Aniston is getting the best reviews of her career - the kind of
reviews that can lead to Oscar nominations," Time magazine said.

Others say different.

But somehow you don't seem to see anything wrong with this.

That's your opinion.

I see what you objected to, and I see what you have not yet objected to.

My saying that Asian do not need a test invented by someone else

See? You're into 'us' and 'them'. Obviously for you 'us' is Asians, and
'them' is everyone else. And you find 'them' wanting in the same fashion
as Zainuddin Maidin above.

to determine their intelligence level,

You leave you own culture you live by the rules of the culture you move
to.

it didn't imply that I think those who invented that test were inferior.

It's a bit late for that.

If you can't understand that, that's your problem.

That's the problem. I see what you actually write and object to, and
it's no different from the stuff others post. You find things wanting
just because they are not Asian in origin. You can't see it, I understand
that.

This entire post would be ironic were it not so hypocritical.

That also is your opinion.

Which you've been good enough to substantiate.

Why don't you also complain about Asian racism?

Why should I complain about it here?

Because I'm asking you to, just to show that you care about racism, not
just Asians.

I have complained many times about Indian caste system somewhere else.

Elsewhere? What are your complaints?

Probably because you support it.

Now, now. Probably is not the same as "you support it", does it?

No. It's a word that implies speculation.

As a minority in the country I was born (my parent were born and
raised thare too) who suffered discrimination and were not considered
as full-citizens, you must be joking accusing me as a racist.

What does that have to do with whether you are racist or not? I don't
think you really understand the concept. It's like saying you are black,
you can't be racist. I got news for ya, if you can say that, you are.

Beside, as a person whose blood covers basically almost all races of
the world (not through Caucasoid and Negroid per se but through
Indo-Aryan which you probably have no clue about), including semite
(not jewish), you gotta be kidding to accuse me as a racist.

You've gotta be kidding if you think this denies that you can be
a racist.

It's clear that you will profit from any pro-Asian racism.

What are you talking about?

Think Affirmative Racism. Think 'diversity'.

When you said Asian, are you thinking of the slant-eyes, flat nose,
dark, straight haired people OR are you referring to ALL THOSE FROM
ASIAN COUNTRIES which would include Arabs, Persians, people from
Afghanistan some of who are Caucasians, the Mongoloid group, i.e
Chinese and Japanese and more, the Indo-Aryans of India, etc.? Note
that I have excluded the people of Turkey.

And what difference does this make?

I was/am going with the second one, WHICH WAS MY WHOLE POINT OF
criticizing the use of the term Asian in IQ test, duh...

That is was not invented by an Asian. That was your objection, how
date a non-Asian even imply that they can say anything about an Asian.

It's almost certain that you have.

The most stupid thing I have ever heard. What I have had was getting
pulled over by the red-neck police

Racism.

in Houston for driving a beat-up
car in my student days because I look a bit Hispanic or South
Americans.

Odd, I was always pulled over by the cops when I had my old 1965
Mustang convertible. Racism obviously, right?

Rich

Note: I will not be wasting any more time defending groundless
accusations.

You've already proven that they are not groundless.

Rich

Rich wrote in message ...
amanda replied:
Rich wrote in message ...

[...]

Nevertheless, the notion that they are totally worthless is also worth
examining. The poster 'Uncle Al' (I think it was him) said that they measure
your ability to take IQ tests but that's naught but a tautology. IQ tests
don't tale place in a vacuum and students should have learned something from
all those years in school.

Do you think that all tests are worthless? some are worthless? Somewhere
in-between?


Because of the way the IQ tests are being used today, I didn't bother
to check the worthiness of it.

I guess it is as worthy as those standardized tests, namely, GRE,
GMAT, LSAT, MCAT, etc.. In another word, just like those standardized
tests, it is designed for a specific group of people.

Explain to me how algebra is designed for a certain group of people.

If you want to sretch, be my guest.

Then explain why Asians do better on these tests. Were these tests
designed for Asians?

May be non-Asians are not aaeching their kids Algebra the best way.

Is that your claim?

I didn't claim anything about Algebra tests.


Rich

Rich

Rich wrote in message ...
amanda replied:
Rich wrote in message news:3FAA5CC1.1030209@so
meplace.com...

amanda replied:

"Greg Neill" wrote in message news:Qieqb.71
...


"amanda" wrote in message
le.com...



What gave you the idea that I was upset about the term "Asian"?

My only point was that IQ tests to determine people's intelligence a
re

bs.

Ah, of course. It would be far better indeed to administer
intelligence tests rather than IQ tests to determine people's
intelligence, right?

Really, you sound like someone who is disappointed by their
own results on such a test.

I knew that someone would come up with that stupid opinion. It just
happens to be you. Sorry about that

Don't you realize that us Asians don't need the tests invented by
non-Asians to find out whether we are intellgent or not?

It was only at the turn of 2oth century that the Western World
started to reliaze that Asians are not inferior to them

It's interesting that in the Asian countries, the inferiority of
non-Asians is still widely accepted and believed.

Now, where did you get that idea?

Everything I've read my and about various Asian cultures.

I didn't say that, did I?

I didn't say you did, did I?

There is no attempt for or desire for reciprocity.

as they have been told by the 19th century European racists

Is there an Asian country which is not racist?

Whya re you talking abput cpuntries. Why not individuals?

Cause it's not just individuals, it's a cultural thing.
Why don't you talk about individual Americans?

You are the one who accused all Asian countries as racists.

You do not understand how Western culture (as they see from the
movies) scare the parents in those countries. These governments feel
obligated to deter the bad part of western culture. In doing so,
sometimes they go extreme. When the movie "Flash Dance" came out, any
kid who twist their body would be taken away by the police, at least
for a moment. My cousin, about 13, was really good at it. his father
never knew that he could do that. If the father knew, he would
probably scold the son.

Just look at the nice
things high Japanese govt officials have said about Americans.

who believed that they were superior to all other humans.

As do all Asian races currently.

Currently is the keyword but you are wrong to generalize all Asians.

So you say.

Nice that you are using what Mlaysia said as the ruler. Never mind
that Malaysian government a Muslim government. Show me any Muslims
who thinks western culture is suitable to their children.


http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/entertain...iz/2582833.stm

Tuesday, 17 December, 2002, 09:35 GMT
'Anti-Asian' Brad Pitt advert banned

A car advert featuring Brad Pitt has been banned in Malaysia
because it is "an insult to Asians", according to reports
in the country.

The government ordered the ads to be pulled because non-Asian
faces would "plant a sense of inferiority among Asians", the
county's deputy information minister Zainuddin Maidin told
national news agency Bernama.

Aren't our own people handsome enough?
Zainuddin Maidin Deputy information minister

The adverts, for Toyota Altis cars, ran on television, billboards
and in newspapers across Asia, and it was reported that the
posters became a target for fans who wanted them for their
bedroom walls.

"Why must we use their faces in our advertisements?" Mr Zainuddin
said, according to the agency.

"Aren't our own people handsome enough?"

He added: "We cancelled the ads because they were considered
an insult to Asians."

Pitt, one of the biggest stars in Hollywood, was last seen on
the big screen as a smooth-talking criminal in Ocean's Eleven.

He is married to Friends star Jennifer Aniston, who fell foul
of Malaysian censors earlier in the year when they banned an
episode of the comedy because they said it would encourage
promiscuity.

Aniston has said she expects the show to end, and is planning
start a family with Pitt.

In reaction to speculation that the next series of Friends
would be the last, Aniston said: "In my mind, I'm done."

"I want to start my family," she told United States magazine
Entertainment Weekly.

The Hollywood couple wed in a million-dollar ceremony in Malibu
in July 2000.

She won a prestigious Emmy award for best comedy actress for
her role in the hit series earlier in the year - but there is
talk that she may get more awards for her latest film, The Good Girl.

In it, she plays an adulterous and depressed Texan shop assistant,
and the film has taken $14m ( 8.75m) at US box offices.

"Aniston is getting the best reviews of her career - the kind of
reviews that can lead to Oscar nominations," Time magazine said.

Others say different.

But somehow you don't seem to see anything wrong with this.

That's your opinion.

I see what you objected to, and I see what you have not yet objected to.

Twist as you wish. I just didn't want to spend time refuting silly
accusations.

My saying that Asian do not need a test invented by someone else

See? You're into 'us' and 'them'. Obviously for you 'us' is Asians, and
'them' is everyone else.

Again, another silly accustaions that I am into "us" and "them".
Beside, we both know who invented IQ tests. So don't make it look
like I meant everyone else when Is aid "them".

And you find 'them' wanting in the same fashion
as Zainuddin Maidin above.

Pretty bold accusation. You think you know but you do not know how
Asians see western culture very well.


to determine their intelligence level,

You leave you own culture you live by the rules of the culture you move
to.

it didn't imply that I think those who invented that test were inferior
.

It's a bit late for that.
Why? because you say so?


If you can't understand that, that's your problem.

That's the problem. I see what you actually write and object to, and
it's no different from the stuff others post. You find things wanting
just because they are not Asian in origin. You can't see it, I understand

that.

Whatever? I do not know how you concluded that I belive the Asians are
superior to anyone else. You seem to be upset that I implied that
Asians are superior to you. May eb you had have some experience with
soem Asians acting like that.

Heck..I have met Chinese who claimed to be superior to anyone else.
In fact, one time, when this friend of mine said that America is doing
well because of its Chinese population. Immediately after I smiled
and replied "I don't think so", I realized that that moment was the
beginning of the end of our friendship.

And she wasn't the first Chinese I met who put down on Amercans
(talking about white Americans). Everytime, I have defended from the
Americans' side. For what? To be accused by people like you that I
think white American are inferior to Asians. Very nice!




This entire post would be ironic were it not so hypocritical.

That also is your opinion.

Which you've been good enough to substantiate.

Why don't you also complain about Asian racism?

Why should I complain about it here?

Because I'm asking you to, just to show that you care about racism, not
just Asians.

If I didn't care about racism, I would not have started this thread.
Why are you clueless about that?


I have complained many times about Indian caste system somewhere else.

Elsewhere? What are your complaints?

Long time ago - it was soon after 9/11 - I happened to go into an
egpytian group thinking I would learn more about the ancient egyptian
culture. Instead, some Indian Hindu hate mongers were trashing the
Muslims (mainly Pakistanis) pickign on their religion and treatment on
women. So I borught up suttee, caste system, and treatment of women
in their society. Caste systen has been abolished but has it really
gone? I told them to clean up their hosue before picking on others. I
didn't use the same user name.


Probably because you support it.

Now, now. Probably is not the same as "you support it", does it?

No. It's a word that implies speculation.

As a minority in the country I was born (my parent were born and
raised thare too) who suffered discrimination and were not considered
as full-citizens, you must be joking accusing me as a racist.

What does that have to do with whether you are racist or not?

Because it was due to race that we were discriminated.

I don't
think you really understand the concept.
You were the one who didn't understand what I said.

It's like saying you are black,
you can't be racist.

I got news for ya, if you can say that, you are.

I got news for you. You underestimated me in assuming that I think
black cannot be racists.


Beside, as a person whose blood covers basically almost all races of
the world (not through Caucasoid and Negroid per se but through
Indo-Aryan which you probably have no clue about), including semite
(not jewish), you gotta be kidding to accuse me as a racist.

You've gotta be kidding if you think this denies that you can be
a racist.

It's clear that you will profit from any pro-Asian racism.

What are you talking about?

Think Affirmative Racism. Think 'diversity'.

When you said Asian, are you thinking of the slant-eyes, flat nose,
dark, straight haired people OR are you referring to ALL THOSE FROM
ASIAN COUNTRIES which would include Arabs, Persians, people from
Afghanistan some of who are Caucasians, the Mongoloid group, i.e
Chinese and Japanese and more, the Indo-Aryans of India, etc.? Note
that I have excluded the people of Turkey.

And what difference does this make?

You have no clue what I was talkign about, are you?

I was/am going with the second one, WHICH WAS MY WHOLE POINT OF
criticizing the use of the term Asian in IQ test, duh...

That is was not invented by an Asian. That was your objection, how
date a non-Asian even imply that they can say anything about an Asian.

My objection was that I as an Asian did not need to run and take the
IQ test to find out my intelligence level when, I repeat WHEN *that*
guy told me that I must not have done well blah..blah..blah and ehnce
against the IQ tests.


It's almost certain that you have.

The most stupid thing I have ever heard. What I have had was getting
pulled over by the red-neck police

Racism.

Red neck is red neck. Simple as that. Here in CA, I approached a
police car once to ask for some direction. The first things he said,
with a very pleasant manner was " what can I do for you?". In
Houston, it would be like " What's your problem?". Another time, as
the police blocked the route to my place, I asked the police standing
there what I should do and he was really nice. In Houston, it would be
like "I am busy; get lost".

I even told that (that most of them are red neck) to a police officer
once. It was 11 pm at night, not on the highway but he happened to be
really closed by and I didn't see his car because I wanted to get home
which was not too far and did not slow down as he expected. I was the
only car around there.

I told him to just give me the ticket and spare the lecture. He
asked me why I talked like that. I told him that I haven't met a
police officer who did not give me a ticket. I told him that most are
red necks. He just laughed. May be he didn't get mad because I was not
far from the campus and he knew that I was a student. (I did tell him
that I was tired and didn't see him when he asked why I didn't slow
down after seeing him). Or may be I looked cute to him (he wasn't very
old) when i said to him that most of them are red necks. Who knows? As
he gave me the ticket, he said that he would not have given me the
ticket if I didn't act the way I did. I replied - silently - "yeah,
right!"

in Houston for driving a beat-up
car in my student days because I look a bit Hispanic or South
Americans.

Odd, I was always pulled over by the cops when I had my old 1965
Mustang convertible. Racism obviously, right?

In my case, there were other cars speeding but they didn't get
stopped.


Rich

Note: I will not be wasting any more time defending groundless
accusations.

You've already proven that they are not groundless.

Whatever.


Rich

"Dr. Dickie" wrote in message
news
Uncle Al wrote:
If the test subject has a mother who will have to commit suicide
rather than face her peers if her son comes forth with a mediocre
score, we're down to Jews and Asians.

"Robert J. Kolker" wrote
I got that from my Mom all the time. "How can I listen to Mrs.
Greenstein talk about all the A-s her son gets?". It is a wonder that I
am still sane. My kids were luckier. That never got that kind of grief
from their parents and they still got A-s and B-s.

"Mrs. Greenstein's son is going to be a doctor and you are going to be a
what? A mathematician? What kind of profession is that?" And so on and
so on. She was right. I should have become a mercenary. A soldier of
fortune.
Bob Kolker

Well man, what happened? Did Mrs. Geenstein's son become a doctor?
Don't keep us in suspense. In the Hollywood version, you would meet
him collecting your garbage in the morning.
Dr. Dickie

AHAHAHahahhaha.......ahahaha........pretty good, Dickie.
Oye weh, Bob, you had a hard live, huh?
Such a mother and then 2 near-death experiences and all, ....wow!
Yeah, Bob, tell us the grand finale, the Hollywood- and the real version.
ahahaha........ahahahahahanson