Will The LIGO Experiment Work?

An ambitious experiment to detect gravitational waves from distant
astronomical sources is currently in preparation (Laser Interferometric
Gravitational Observatory - LIGO). A typical source for such waves would be two
stars circling each other in close proximity. It is proposed to detect these
waves by means of a two axis laser array to measure the relativistic effects of
the waves as they pass by. It is postulated that these waves will cause the
distance between the ends of the array, as sensed by Laser inteferometry, to be
moved by the "distortion of space" as they pass the Earth. It is expected that
this movement will be detectible by an interference pattern observable in Laser
signals sent between the ends of the arrays. Calculations have shown that the
gravitational wave produced by a massive star in close orbit about another
should contain enough energy to be readily detectible by this method. What does
not seem to be mentioned is the fact that LIGO is only capable of detecting
longitudinal waves. In addition in none of these reports does mention seem to
have been made of the fact that such waves must always be generated as multiple
waves which cancel completely for longitudinal waves and cancel in the far
field for transverse waves. Considering the distances involved and the size of
the LIGO array, all such observations will be made as distant far field
observations.

The generation of multiple waves (e.g.- two for a binary system) results
from the fact that, as is the case with a single gravitational object, the
center of gravity of a gravitationally coupled multiple object must remain
stationary as its component parts move with respect to each other. As a result,
the gravitational wave (as seen at an "infinite distance") from one of the
objects in a binary system will be equal in amplitude and opposite in phase to
the gravitational wave from the other. The net gravitational radiation from the
pair will consist of both longitudinal and transverse waves which are equal in
amplitude. The longitudinal waves will be opposite in phase and shoud therefore
cancel completely. The transverse waves will have a very small phase angle
between them equal to the radius of the orbit(so) involved divided by the
distance to the source.

The transverse waves are only observable if the two objects can be resolved
as separate objects (near field radiation). If they cannot be so resolved (far
field radiation) by the gravitational wave detector, they will be impossible to
detect because the detector will experience only the static field from their
common center of gravity. The cyclical field which for which detection was
hoped for will cancel. A further complication in the detection of the
transverse wave is the fact that they will not produce a 'stretching" of the
local horizontal, they will produce a "tilting" of the local vertical. The LIGO
array should not capable of detecting the effect even if it has sufficinet
amplitude.

The longitudinal waves emanating from the center of gravity of the
emitting system always produce far field radiation which cancels completely. An
additional complication results from the fact that any residual component of
the gravitational radiation is attenuated not only by the expected inverse
square law, it suffers an additional attenuation in proportion to the cube of
distance rather than the square of distance do the transverse waves. It would
seem reasonable to assert that there are no longitudinal waves for LIGO to
detect.

Gravitational waves certainly do exist, we live on a world with an
enormous gravity wave detector, the oceans. The tides in the ocean are produced
by the Moon's gravitational field. The time of high tide advances about an hour
a day. This advancement can be considered to be the output of a gravity wave
detector, but, that gravity wave would be undetectable at interplanetary
distances because the gravitational waves from the Earth and the Moon would
cancel each other virtually completely! The writer has received arguments that
the fact that binary stellar systems are observed to lose energy over time due
to radiation of gravitational energy to the Universe shows that the limitation
described does not occur and that gravitational waves will therefore be
detectible. Such an argument is faulty. The radiating objects are embedded in
the Universe and, as a result, all of the radiated gravitational energy is
absorbed as "near field" radiation. It is only the shrimpy detectors that man
is capable of building which will have difficulty in detecting transverse
gravitational waves. (In addition to the expected attenuation in wave strength
imposed by the inverse square law, the energy received by the far field
detector represented by the LIGO array will be reduced in proportional to the
square of the ratio of the orbital radius of the sources divided by the
distance to the sourced. Rotsa Ruck Fellows!

The source material for this posting may be found in "Gravity" (1987),
"The Einstein Hoax" (1997), and "Corrections to Residual Errors in Special
Relativity (1999) located at http://www.members.aol.com/einsteinhoax/site.htm .
EVERYTHING WHICH WE ACCEPT AS TRUE MUST BE CONSISTENT WITH EVERYTHING ELSE WE
HAVE ACCEPTED AS TRUE, IT MUST BE CONSISTENT WITH ALL OBSERVATIONS, AND IT MUST
BE MATHEMATICALLY VIABLE. PRESENT TEACHINGS DO NOT ALWAYS MEET THIS
REQUIREMENT. THE WORLD IS ENTITLED TO A HIGHER STANDARD OF WORKMANSHIP FROM
THOSE IT HAS GRANTED WORLD CLASS STATUS.

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Noitpo23 wrote:

Will The LIGO Experiment Work?



Most likely LIGO will detect gravitational waves.
See: http://www.ligo.caltech.edu/
http:/www.edu-observatory.org/eo/cosmology.html

PHYSICS NEWS UPDATE
The American Institute of Physics Bulletin of Physics News
Number 632 April 9, 2003 by Phillip F. Schewe, Ben Stein, and James
Riordon

FIRST LIGO SCIENTIFIC RESULTS. With two controlling partners, MIT and
Caltech, and two branch offices (two completely independent detectors)
located in Washington State and Louisiana, the Laser Interferometer
Gravitational-Wave Observatory (LIGO) is essentially a giant strain gauge.
In the LIGO setup laser light reflects repeatedly in each of two
perpendicularly oriented 4-km-long pipes. A passing gravity wave will
distort the local spacetime, stretching very slightly one of the paths while
shrinking the other, causing the interference pattern of the two merging
laser light beams to shift in a characteristic way. LIGO does not measure
static gravitational fields, such as those from the sun or the Earth itself.
Rather it strives to see ripples in spacetime radiated by such events as
the inspiral of two neutron stars toward each other, a phenomenon which
would typically produce a strain in the LIGO apparatus as large as one part
in 10^20. That is, a passing gravity wave is expected to change the
distance between mirrors some 4 km apart by about 10^-18 meters, a
displacement 1000 times smaller than a proton. Such a measurement
represents a physics and engineering feat of great delicacy. But at long
last the LIGO team has prepared its instrument and at this week's APS
meeting, reported its first official results from the initial "science" run
conducted over 17 days in September 2002.
In this first run no gravitational wave events were observed, but palpable
knowledge was gained as to what the sky should look like when viewed in the
form of gravity waves. So great is LIGO's sensitivity that it has been able
to set the best upper limit on the output of gravitational waves from three
of the four prime source categories. These four expected waveforms are as
follows: bursts from sources such as supernovas or gamma bursters; chirps
from inspiraling objects such as coalescing binary stars; periodic signals,
perhaps from sources like spherically asymmetric pulsars; and a stochastic
background source arising from gravity waves originating from the big bang
itself. LIGO deputy director Gary Sanders (Caltech,
) said that in three of these four categories,
had set new upper limits on the rate at which gravitational waves were being
produced. In the coalescing binary category, for instance, LIGO has
established an upper limit of 164 per year from the Milky Way, a factor of
26 better than the previous limit. Erik Katsavounidis (MIT,
) said that LIGO could establish an upper limit on
periodic signals from bright pulsars with a sensitivity of about 10^-22.
Sheila Rowan (Stanford Univ and Univ Glasgow) spoke of future operations at
LIGO. First of all, the second scientific run currently underway will be
some ten times more sensitive than the first run, the one being reported at
the meeting. If in the first science run LIGO was essentially sensitive to
gravity waves from the whole of the Milky Way, then in the second science
run (conducted Feb-Apr 2003), featuring a ten-times improvement in
sensitivity, the region of space patrolled would effectively reach out to
about 15 million light years, a realm that includes the nearby Andromeda
galaxy. (For more information about LIGO and a complete collaboration list,
see www.ligo.caltech.edu ) In its search for gravity waves, LIGO (which with
about 440 scientists is as big as the large particle physics experiments
underway at accelerators) is also collaborating with other interferometer
devices such as GEO (in Germany, www.geo600.uni-hannover.de ) and TAMA
(Japan).


Crank Information
http://groups.google.com/groups?q=gr...hor%3Areticher
http://groups.google.com/groups?q=gr...or%3Areticher1

In article ,
Noitpo23 wrote:
Will The LIGO Experiment Work?

Absolutely, barring engineering details. Whether it detects gravitational
radiation or not, it will either validate or dent general relativity. The
only failure can be to make no measurement at all with a precision
sufficient to test the theory.

--
"Let us learn to dream, gentlemen, then perhaps we shall find the
truth... But let us beware of publishing our dreams before they have been
put to the proof by the waking understanding." -- Friedrich August Kekulé

"Noitpo23" wrote in message
...
Will The LIGO Experiment Work?

[snip the technical details and the bull] [1]

I thought it had gone on too long without this question being asked yet
again. Can't we just wait and see whether GIGO works or not, and if it does
work, whether the results do or don't disprove Einstein - or possibly refine
Einstein.

[1] Since the entire text has been snipped, the question of which parts of
the text are technical details and which sections are bull, does not arise.

No gravity shield exsist so you cat isolate it much less tell if its
the laser beams them selves. Waist of money ,,get a real gob

(Noitpo23) wrote:
Will The LIGO Experiment Work?

The question doesn't make sense.

All exploratory experiments work, by definition of "work".
They either discover the existence of something surmised, but
never seen before, or they don't, which itself is an equally
major discovery. Both results are huge.

Prai Jei wrote:
"Noitpo23" wrote in message
...
Will The LIGO Experiment Work?

[snip the technical details and the bull] [1]

I thought it had gone on too long without this question being asked yet
again. Can't we just wait and see whether GIGO works or not, and if it does
work, whether the results do or don't disprove Einstein - or possibly refine
Einstein.

GIGO always works. It is one of the few universal truths.
(sorry, could not resist)


[1] Since the entire text has been snipped, the question of which parts of
the text are technical details and which sections are bull, does not arise.

"Karl Forsberg" wrote in message
.. .
Prai Jei wrote:
"Noitpo23" wrote in message
...
Will The LIGO Experiment Work?

[snip the technical details and the bull] [1]

I thought it had gone on too long without this question being asked yet
again. Can't we just wait and see whether GIGO works or not, and if it does
work, whether the results do or don't disprove Einstein - or possibly refine
Einstein.
[1] Since the entire text has been snipped, the question of which parts of
the text are technical details and which sections are bull, does not arise.

GIGO always works. It is one of the few universal truths.
(sorry, could not resist)
Karl

FIFO also works. It is a good way to get rid of old stuff.
(sorry, but you must do that)
hanson

"Karl Forsberg" wrote in message
.. .
Prai Jei wrote:
"Noitpo23" wrote in message
...
Will The LIGO Experiment Work?

[snip the technical details and the bull] [1]

I thought it had gone on too long without this question being asked yet
again. Can't we just wait and see whether GIGO works or not, and if it does
work, whether the results do or don't disprove Einstein - or possibly refine
Einstein.
[1] Since the entire text has been snipped, the question of which parts of
the text are technical details and which sections are bull, does not arise.

GIGO always works. It is one of the few universal truths.
(sorry, could not resist)
Karl

FIFO also works. It is a good way to get rid of old stuff.
(sorry, but you must do that)
hanson

"hanson" wrote in message
ink.net...
"Karl Forsberg" wrote in message
.. .
Prai Jei wrote:
"Noitpo23" wrote in message
...
Will The LIGO Experiment Work?

[snip the technical details and the bull] [1]

I thought it had gone on too long without this question being asked
yet
again. Can't we just wait and see whether GIGO works or not, and if it
does
work, whether the results do or don't disprove Einstein - or possibly
refine
Einstein.
[1] Since the entire text has been snipped, the question of which
parts of
the text are technical details and which sections are bull, does not
arise.

GIGO always works. It is one of the few universal truths.
(sorry, could not resist)
Karl

FIFO also works. It is a good way to get rid of old stuff.
(sorry, but you must do that)
hanson


The trouble with this subject is that it seems to be FOFBI (First Out First
Back In). The originator must have his head up his