I believe that the electrons field only lets in certain energies of
light and deflects all the rest. Only definite frequencies can be let
in or in other words absorbed. The rest are scattered. Is there compton
scattering or partial absorption for light by atomic bound electrons?
Could the field of the electron change the direction and slow down a
photon as a different kind of scattering than the compton energy
transfer? Is this EM field effect of matter what slows down lightand
changes its direction?

Mitch Raemsch -- Light Falls --

The phenomen varies a lot across substances, but many materials only
deflect certain energies and absorb all the rest. I'm not sure of all
the mechanisms behind it, but I'm reasonably sure that the electric
field from the electrons, as well as which orbits are filled and which
are not, are heavily involved.

On a sunny day (7 Nov 2005 16:18:10 -0800) it happened "Nick"
wrote in
.com:

I believe that the electrons field only lets in certain energies of
light and deflects all the rest. Only definite frequencies can be let
in or in other words absorbed. The rest are scattered. Is there compton
scattering or partial absorption for light by atomic bound electrons?
Could the field of the electron change the direction and slow down a
photon as a different kind of scattering than the compton energy
transfer? Is this EM field effect of matter what slows down lightand
changes its direction?
I think this is caused by the same principle of resonance as I described in this
groups in 'explaining the photo electric effect from the wave perspective'.

Nick wrote:
I believe that the electrons field only lets in certain energies of
light and deflects all the rest. Only definite frequencies can be let
in or in other words absorbed. The rest are scattered. Is there compton
scattering or partial absorption for light by atomic bound electrons?
Could the field of the electron change the direction and slow down a
photon as a different kind of scattering than the compton energy
transfer? Is this EM field effect of matter what slows down lightand
changes its direction?


Try jumping on a moving carousel:
A. By running alongside
B. By running toward its center shaft.

Repeat method B. untill you get the idea. )

Sue...

Many materials only deflect certain energies and absorb
all the rest.

Very interesting.

if i remember corectly
the electric field does not affect photons
it seems to me that you lack a section in physics that deals with
vibrations of bodies resonance
and
the 'natural frequency of a particle
or a body.

the electrons do not orbit all around the nuc

it is one chain of orbitals
if you like take it as a beam a longish beam.
now that starngwe structure has its
natural frequency
think aabout a string of a musical instrument
it has always the same natural frequency
therefore its 'tune'
now if anouside 'agitator' (force etc)
is acting on that structure
it changes the bodys frequency
for a short time
but if that external 'agitator'
*has the same frequency as the natural
frequency of the body
you get *resonance*
ie the amplitude of the motion
becomes larger and larger
untill soemting in it might even break!
that break(of something) is a point in which it starts to trrow outside
its debris
and here you have the emmition.

your house might break if during an earthquake the frequency of the
shaking earth
fits the natural frequency of your house
long enough time!!

the house *will not break* if the frequency of the shaking earth does
not 'fit' that of your house!!!! ---
(thses are the cases in which a particle
is not affected by an external light
exitations with frequencies that
do not 'fit'.!! (do not overlap if you liketo see it that way.)

hope that this shrort hints hepls a bit.

ATB
Y.Porat
-----------------------

Y.Porat wrote:
if i remember corectly
the electric field does not affect photons

Birefringence - the electric field within a medium contributes to the
index of refraction

it seems to me that you lack a section in physics that deals with
vibrations of bodies resonance

Acoustics

and
the 'natural frequency of a particle
or a body.

What do you mean by 'frequency of a particle'? Acoustics deals with
mechanical vibrations (phonons) of extended bodies. If you are talking
about a free particle then you are talking about DeBroglie's work.

the electrons do not orbit all around the nuc

They do in atoms and monatomic ions. In molecules and molecular ions
they occupy 'molecular orbitals.' In extended bodies thay may occupy
'conduction bands.'

it is one chain of orbitals
if you like take it as a beam a longish beam.

Or a short beam as in a CO2 molecule (O=C=O) or a many-membered ring(s)
structure as in benzene, nucleotides, graphitic molecules, and on and
on.

now that starngwe structure has its
natural frequency

Actually, it has a variety of 'natural frequencies.' The molecular
orbitals of benzene have 12 different frequencies of which half will
duplicate those of others of there are no electric or magnetic fields
present.

think aabout a string of a musical instrument
it has always the same natural frequency
therefore its 'tune'

which will depend on the temperature, tension, humidity, age, and other
factors not mentioned...

now if anouside 'agitator' (force etc)
is acting on that structure
it changes the bodys frequency
for a short time
but if that external 'agitator'
*has the same frequency as the natural
frequency of the body
you get *resonance*

There isn't a physicist in the crowd here who sibn't already way ahead
of you. Especially one who has solved the equation for a linear
harmonic oscillator with an externally applied periodic driving force:

m*[d^2u/dt^2 + w(o)/Q*du/dt + w(o)^2*U] = F(t)

ie the amplitude of the motion
becomes larger and larger
untill soemting in it might even break!

or until the time average work done by the damping force -m*w(o)*v^2/Q
matches by the time average work done by the external force F*v, where
v = -w(o)*A*sin(w(o)*t)

At that point, the driving force simply cannot overcome the damping
force (notice hte damping varies with v^2 while the external force
works proportionately to v) and additional energy input gets dissipates
as heat increasingly faster

that break(of something) is a point in which it starts to trrow outside
its debris
and here you have the emmition.

Spontaneous emission has nothing to do with resonance or 'outside
agitators' necessarily. It appears to be a function of the probability
functions of quantum mechanics and the energy levels of initial,
transition, and final states.

Radioactive nuclei will emit ata predictable rate even when they are
not 'agitated.'

your house might break if during an earthquake the frequency of the
shaking earth
fits the natural frequency of your house

....*A* natural resonance of a house...

long enough time!!

....and with great enough amplitude.

the house *will not break* if the frequency of the shaking earth does
not 'fit' that of your house!!!! ---

Bull****. A horizontal acceleration will peel a chimney loose from a
house at any frequency or topple a free standing wall if it is great
enough to alter the direction of 'down' so that the center of mass is
no longer over the foundation footprint.

(thses are the cases in which a particle
is not affected by an external light
exitations with frequencies that
do not 'fit'.!! (do not overlap if you liketo see it that way.)

?????

hope that this shrort hints hepls a bit.

Not much. Please turn on your spell-checker. You might want to
consider investing in a word processor that has a grammar checker as
well.


Tom Davidson
Richmond, VA

Y.Porat wrote:
if i remember corectly
the electric field does not affect photons

I claim differentl. The EM field of matter effects light.
Can you back up what you remember Porat?

I'd like to know!

Mitch Raemsch




it seems to me that you lack a section in physics that deals with
vibrations of bodies resonance
and
the 'natural frequency of a particle
or a body.

the electrons do not orbit all around the nuc

it is one chain of orbitals
if you like take it as a beam a longish beam.
now that starngwe structure has its
natural frequency
think aabout a string of a musical instrument
it has always the same natural frequency
therefore its 'tune'
now if anouside 'agitator' (force etc)
is acting on that structure
it changes the bodys frequency
for a short time
but if that external 'agitator'
*has the same frequency as the natural
frequency of the body
you get *resonance*

resonance porat? how does the vibration of matter affect vibrating
light
waves?

ie the amplitude of the motion
becomes larger and larger

If a EM wave of verty small energy is emitted
it will be very large when it fully expands.
Lets say a light wave of one light year(note this Porat)
by energy is emitted. If light is local it must grow
to size. And it will take a year. It starts off as a
singlarity and expands.

I say the wavelength expands at the speed of light
while the amplitude goes up slowly. This way the
light maintains its energy.

There are preformed light waves.


untill soemting in it might even break!
that break(of something) is a point in which it starts to trrow outside
its debris
and here you have the emmition.

your house might break if during an earthquake the frequency of the
shaking earth
fits the natural frequency of your house
long enough time!!

the house *will not break* if the frequency of the shaking earth does
not 'fit' that of your house!!!! ---
(thses are the cases in which a particle
is not affected by an external light
exitations with frequencies that
do not 'fit'.!! (do not overlap if you liketo see it that way.)

hope that this shrort hints hepls a bit.

No. But I'll take it anyway Porat.

ATB-
Y.Porat
-----------------------

tadchem wrote:
Y.Porat wrote:
if i remember corectly
the electric field does not affect photons


and
the 'natural frequency of a particle
or a body.

What do you mean by 'frequency of a particle'? Acoustics deals with
mechanical vibrations (phonons) of extended bodies. If you are talking
about a free particle then you are talking about DeBroglie's work.

thank you Davison!!

you see i am thankful
yet you are not even aware about thankfully to me you are !!

see later.........now to your above question

by natural frequency of a body i mean *the main frequency* (not the
harmonics
i didnt think while stsrting that explanation to go too much into
details tried to introduce the basic ones))


the electrons do not orbit all around the nuc

They do in atoms and monatomic ions. In molecules and molecular ions
they occupy 'molecular orbitals.' In extended bodies thay may occupy
'conduction bands.'
some news for you (among the others) even in light elements
the electron does not rotate around the nuc
if you think say about Hydrogen even in that case even if you 'see' in
some
experiments a Shperci shape it is ... because the whole atom is
rotating violently
in all direction
the second news for you is that even the Proton is not a Shpere but a
longish
shape
and here is more shocking news for you : that longish shape is not even
symmetric
it has a front face and a back face!!
if you dont believe me - just keep in memory who was the first one to
tell you that!!
now you just only start to realize why you are unthankful but that is
only the beginning (:-)
--------

it is one chain of orbitals
if you like take it as a beam a longish beam.

Or a short beam as in a CO2 molecule (O=C=O) or a many-membered ring(s)
structure as in benzene, nucleotides, graphitic molecules, and on and
on.
-----------
another news for you:
all the electron orbitals have more or less (sit still in your chair)
more or less the same length!!
it is only different angles of how it spreads out
and here is the other surprise for you:
you are dealing with a structural engineer that was working on these
issues
more than 10 years.

now that starngwe structure has its
natural frequency

Actually, it has a variety of 'natural frequencies.' The molecular
orbitals of benzene have 12 different frequencies of which half will
duplicate those of others of there are no electric or magnetic fields
present.

yes a composite structure has many harmonics
yet a bridge engineer like me didnt think at the first place to get
into that..
----------

think aabout a string of a musical instrument
it has always the same natural frequency
therefore its 'tune'

which will depend on the temperature, tension, humidity, age, and other
factors not mentioned...
very right but still as above that is for a second layer of knowledge

now if anouside 'agitator' (force etc)
is acting on that structure
it changes the body's frequency
for a short time
but if that external 'agitator'
*has the same frequency as the natural
frequency of the body
you get *resonance*

There isn't a physicist in the crowd here who sibn't already way ahead
of you. Especially one who has solved the equation for a linear
harmonic oscillator with an externally applied periodic driving force:

m*[d^2u/dt^2 + w(o)/Q*du/dt + w(o)^2*U] = F(t)

very nice

ie the amplitude of the motion
becomes larger and larger
untill something in it might even break!

or until the time average work done by the damping force -m*w(o)*v^2/Q
matches by the time average work done by the external force F*v, where
v = -w(o)*A*sin(w(o)*t)

At that point, the driving force simply cannot overcome the damping
force (notice hte damping varies with v^2 while the external force
works proportionately to v) and additional energy input gets dissipates
as heat increasingly faster

OK thank you for getting into further details

that break(of something) is a point in which it starts to trow outside
its debris
and here you have the emmition.

Spontaneous emission has nothing to do with resonance or 'outside
agitators' necessarily. It appears to be a function of the probability
functions of quantum mechanics and the energy levels of initial,
transition, and final states.
right yet as above
but just in that point *you *dont have an explanation for it
while my model can suggest an explanation:
it is internal friction of sub particles that causes outside 'bullets'
----------

Radioactive nuclei will emit ata predictable rate even when they are
not 'agitated.'see above
even while not agitated there is internal movement of sub particles
and collisions and 'friction'

your house might break if during an earthquake the frequency of the
shaking earth
fits the natural frequency of your house

...*A* natural resonance of a house...

( in structural engineering call it
the natural frequency of the body

long enough time!!

...and with great enough amplitude.
right

the house *will not break* if the frequency of the shaking earth does
not 'fit' that of your house!!!! ---

Bull****. A horizontal acceleration will peel a chimney loose from a
house at any frequency or topple a free standing wall if it is great
enough to alter the direction of 'down' so that the center of mass is
no longer over the foundation footprint.
------------
-MrDdavison please dont forget that you fell into the hands of a
structural engineer
you are in my yard not in yourse....

1 in the particle world that we know there is no 'loose chimneys'
because they do not even survive to be notices by our tools

2 even if a structure is skewed from its base it does not fall!!

take for example a slender tree say a Cyprus tree
even in a storm it does not fall
so i leave it to you as an exercise of structural engineering student
to explain to us
why it does not fall??!!!!btw
unwillingly you tackled a problem that is very meaningful to our
thread!!
------------
...

(thses are the cases in which a particle
is not affected by an external light
exitations with frequencies that
do not 'fit'.!! (do not overlap if you liketo see it that way.)

?????
a very different frequency or a set of frequencies
might 'contradict itself' and leave the structure unhurt..

hope that this shrort hints helps a bit.

Not much.

now following that 'no much of yours' i will tell you why IMHO
you are so ungrateful to me!!
for you
the nucleus and the Atom is some 'boiling porridge' IE nothing in it is
kept
on its place there is a constant mutual change in position of sub
particles
even the HUP seems to support that picture that is n your mind!1

now
even without your notice
i took you to a completely different world!!
a world of which each sub particle has its unequivocal address
a much more steady and well shaped structure!!

that is something that you sever dreamed about
yet i for the first time introduced you into it
and still you tell me that you learned nothing of me!!!
that is what i call
being very ungrateful !! (:-)


Please turn on your spell-checker. You might want to
consider investing in a word processor that has a grammar checker as
well.
-------------------
i generally use the spell checker but still it does not help all
along!!

2 i suggest that you will have a glimpse at my poor site!!
it might help you understand me much better.
now let me do some spell checking ....... an awkward task....

ATB
Y.Porat
---------------------------