LIke the "self-winding" watch, this will provide power
and may even propel a ship. HOWEVER, there are
places on the sea called "Doldrums" where there are
no waves or air currents at all.

When I took my two-master through them, you could
use the sea for a mirror. We had to wait a couple of
weeks to catch a puff of wind. This scheme, like the
sails of my boat, would not work in the Doldrums.

Another related energy scheme is tidal force, where
bays are damed to generate electricity.

Roger Coppock wrote:
LIke the "self-winding" watch, this will provide power
and may even propel a ship. HOWEVER, there are
places on the sea called "Doldrums" where there are
no waves or air currents at all.

When I took my two-master through them, you could
use the sea for a mirror. We had to wait a couple of
weeks to catch a puff of wind. This scheme, like the
sails of my boat, would not work in the Doldrums.

Another related energy scheme is tidal force, where
bays are damed to generate electricity.

So what are the downside of deploying floating solar panels which
electrolyze sea water, with regular LH2 ship traffic making pickup and
delivery? Sounds like millions of sq. miles of real estate that even
nature wouldn't care if it was patchwork covered over.

H2-powered ships with PV cladding could leave port virtually empty and
arrive home full. What's the downside?

"Melchizedek" wrote in message
ups.com...

Roger Coppock wrote:
LIke the "self-winding" watch, this will provide power
and may even propel a ship. HOWEVER, there are
places on the sea called "Doldrums" where there are
no waves or air currents at all.

When I took my two-master through them, you could
use the sea for a mirror. We had to wait a couple of
weeks to catch a puff of wind. This scheme, like the
sails of my boat, would not work in the Doldrums.

Another related energy scheme is tidal force, where
bays are damed to generate electricity.

So what are the downside of deploying floating solar panels which
electrolyze sea water, with regular LH2 ship traffic making pickup and
delivery? Sounds like millions of sq. miles of real estate that even
nature wouldn't care if it was patchwork covered over.

H2-powered ships with PV cladding could leave port virtually empty and
arrive home full. What's the downside?

With current technology, the downside is cost. There are a lot of promising
prospects for greatly enhancing the efficiency of solar, and what we need is
a "Manhattan Project"-type effort to bring them to fruition. With the
oilies in charge, we have no such thing of course. Prgress continues, but
much slower than it ought to and too slowly to have much short-term hope for
the kind of thing you describe.

Roger:

Do you sail?

Roger Coppock wrote:

LIke the "self-winding" watch, this will provide power
and may even propel a ship. HOWEVER, there are
places on the sea called "Doldrums" where there are
no waves or air currents at all.

When I took my two-master through them, you could
use the sea for a mirror. We had to wait a couple of
weeks to catch a puff of wind. This scheme, like the
sails of my boat, would not work in the Doldrums.

Another related energy scheme is tidal force, where
bays are damed to generate electricity.

Sure, require the tide to force
itself both into and out of the bay
through generators.
Aren't they doing that somewhere right now?
John

Steve Bloom wrote:
"Melchizedek" wrote in message
ups.com...

Roger Coppock wrote:
LIke the "self-winding" watch, this will provide power
and may even propel a ship. HOWEVER, there are
places on the sea called "Doldrums" where there are
no waves or air currents at all.

When I took my two-master through them, you could
use the sea for a mirror. We had to wait a couple of
weeks to catch a puff of wind. This scheme, like the
sails of my boat, would not work in the Doldrums.

Another related energy scheme is tidal force, where
bays are damed to generate electricity.

So what are the downside of deploying floating solar panels which
electrolyze sea water, with regular LH2 ship traffic making pickup and
delivery? Sounds like millions of sq. miles of real estate that even
nature wouldn't care if it was patchwork covered over.

H2-powered ships with PV cladding could leave port virtually empty and
arrive home full. What's the downside?

With current technology, the downside is cost. There are a lot of promising
prospects for greatly enhancing the efficiency of solar, and what we need is
a "Manhattan Project"-type effort to bring them to fruition. With the
oilies in charge, we have no such thing of course. Prgress continues, but
much slower than it ought to and too slowly to have much short-term hope for
the kind of thing you describe.

Baloney. FUD from the oil, gas and coal carbon-lobby.

EMC was patented by the Black Talon Bullets, Winchester Ammo.
FUD-Meisters at Olin corporation over 40 years ago. It has been proven
in the commecial industrial metals industry that long. A series of 20
improvement patents were taken by Olin. In 1986 YOUR National Renewable
Energy Labs adapted the idea to Silicon -- after all, Si's melting
point is right in there among the various metals that EMC melts and
casts as ingots. NREL took out their patent on using EMC for PV SoG Si
ingot casting. Sumitomo Sitix in Japan and Seimens in Germany cast huge
quantities of the stuff, commercially, within the existing frameworks
of capitalism.

EMC PV SoG Si is mature and thoroughly proven. A chinese National
Laboratory has pages showing they are pursuing this agressively. The
patent is expired and anybody worldwide can ffollow the recipe.

EMC makes cheap Si PV fast in large bulk quantity. It is the lowest
cost, fastes technology known to the human race.

Computations show that solar panels covering 0.8 acres can power one
EMC furnace at 36KWs and that the solar power to duplicate 0.8 acres of
cells is 32 regular average sunny days. THat's about oncce per month
that the power supply duplicates by power of 2. In a year there are 12
duplications of powers of two:
2x2x2x2x2x2x2x2x2x2x2x2 = 4096. THere's enough power in one 0.8 acres
to make 4,096 furnaces producing 17 GWs per year of new capacity. 4,096
x 0.8 acres is about 4 sq. miles of desert or prarie that nobody wants
anyway.

The same math covers floating doldrums.

Olin corporation has been a huge funder to science frauds to keep the
public ignorant and stupid. Olin Chlorine & Pollution supported
Lie-Factories receiving Olin loot...

http://www.mediatransparency.org/fun...php?funderID=7

http://www.mediatransparency.org/rec...php?funderID=7
Heritage Foundation, The $8,320,835
American Enterprise Institute for Public Policy Research $7,022,124
George Mason University $6,665,824
Hoover Institution on War, Revolution and Peace $5,015,660
Manhattan Institute for Policy Research, Inc. $4,899,500
Federalist Society for Law and Public Policy Studies, The $4,008,000
Columbia University $3,889,000

Pat Michaels & Fred Singer's base of some operations:
University of Virginia $3,479,066

Hudson Institute, Inc. $3,034,840
Council on Foreign Relations $1,392,000
Citizens for a Sound Economy Foundation $1,375,000
Brookings Institution $1,217,000
Independent Women's Forum $776,000
Pacific Research Institute for Public Policy $735,000
Philanthropy Roundtable $729,000
Rockefeller University $500,000
Media Research Center, Inc. $495,000
Foundation for Research on Economics and the Environment (FREE)
$484,250
Acton Institute For The Study of Religion and Liberty $390,500
Alexis de Tocqueville Institution $362,500
George C. Marshall Institute $350,000
American Law and Economics Association $316,398
Reason Foundation $276,500
Competitive Enterprise Institute $230,300
American Legislative Exchange Council $215,000

Melchizedek wrote:
Steve Bloom wrote:

"Melchizedek" wrote in message
roups.com...

Roger Coppock wrote:

LIke the "self-winding" watch, this will provide power
and may even propel a ship. HOWEVER, there are
places on the sea called "Doldrums" where there are
no waves or air currents at all.

When I took my two-master through them, you could
use the sea for a mirror. We had to wait a couple of
weeks to catch a puff of wind. This scheme, like the
sails of my boat, would not work in the Doldrums.

Another related energy scheme is tidal force, where
bays are damed to generate electricity.

So what are the downside of deploying floating solar panels which
electrolyze sea water, with regular LH2 ship traffic making pickup and
delivery? Sounds like millions of sq. miles of real estate that even
nature wouldn't care if it was patchwork covered over.

H2-powered ships with PV cladding could leave port virtually empty and
arrive home full. What's the downside?


With current technology, the downside is cost. There are a lot of promising
prospects for greatly enhancing the efficiency of solar, and what we need is
a "Manhattan Project"-type effort to bring them to fruition. With the
oilies in charge, we have no such thing of course. Prgress continues, but
much slower than it ought to and too slowly to have much short-term hope for
the kind of thing you describe.


Baloney. FUD from the oil, gas and coal carbon-lobby.

EMC was patented by the Black Talon Bullets, Winchester Ammo.
FUD-Meisters at Olin corporation over 40 years ago. It has been proven
in the commecial industrial metals industry that long. A series of 20
improvement patents were taken by Olin. In 1986 YOUR National Renewable
Energy Labs adapted the idea to Silicon -- after all, Si's melting
point is right in there among the various metals that EMC melts and
casts as ingots. NREL took out their patent on using EMC for PV SoG Si
ingot casting. Sumitomo Sitix in Japan and Seimens in Germany cast huge
quantities of the stuff, commercially, within the existing frameworks
of capitalism.

EMC PV SoG Si is mature and thoroughly proven. A chinese National
Laboratory has pages showing they are pursuing this agressively. The
patent is expired and anybody worldwide can ffollow the recipe.

EMC makes cheap Si PV fast in large bulk quantity. It is the lowest
cost, fastes technology known to the human race.

Computations show that solar panels covering 0.8 acres can power one
EMC furnace at 36KWs and that the solar power to duplicate 0.8 acres of
cells is 32 regular average sunny days. THat's about oncce per month
that the power supply duplicates by power of 2. In a year there are 12
duplications of powers of two:
2x2x2x2x2x2x2x2x2x2x2x2 = 4096. THere's enough power in one 0.8 acres
to make 4,096 furnaces producing 17 GWs per year of new capacity. 4,096
x 0.8 acres is about 4 sq. miles of desert or prarie that nobody wants
anyway.

The same math covers floating doldrums.

Olin corporation has been a huge funder to science frauds to keep the
public ignorant and stupid. Olin Chlorine & Pollution supported
Lie-Factories receiving Olin loot...

http://www.mediatransparency.org/fun...php?funderID=7

http://www.mediatransparency.org/rec...php?funderID=7
Heritage Foundation, The $8,320,835
American Enterprise Institute for Public Policy Research $7,022,124
George Mason University $6,665,824
Hoover Institution on War, Revolution and Peace $5,015,660
Manhattan Institute for Policy Research, Inc. $4,899,500
Federalist Society for Law and Public Policy Studies, The $4,008,000
Columbia University $3,889,000

Pat Michaels & Fred Singer's base of some operations:
University of Virginia $3,479,066

Hudson Institute, Inc. $3,034,840
Council on Foreign Relations $1,392,000
Citizens for a Sound Economy Foundation $1,375,000
Brookings Institution $1,217,000
Independent Women's Forum $776,000
Pacific Research Institute for Public Policy $735,000
Philanthropy Roundtable $729,000
Rockefeller University $500,000
Media Research Center, Inc. $495,000
Foundation for Research on Economics and the Environment (FREE)
$484,250
Acton Institute For The Study of Religion and Liberty $390,500
Alexis de Tocqueville Institution $362,500
George C. Marshall Institute $350,000
American Law and Economics Association $316,398
Reason Foundation $276,500
Competitive Enterprise Institute $230,300
American Legislative Exchange Council $215,000

What's an EMC furnace? and that much power is even possible though
solar?! holy crap!
- Robin

LoreCaster wrote:
Melchizedek wrote:
Steve Bloom wrote:

"Melchizedek" wrote in message
roups.com...

Roger Coppock wrote:

LIke the "self-winding" watch, this will provide power
and may even propel a ship. HOWEVER, there are
places on the sea called "Doldrums" where there are
no waves or air currents at all.

When I took my two-master through them, you could
use the sea for a mirror. We had to wait a couple of
weeks to catch a puff of wind. This scheme, like the
sails of my boat, would not work in the Doldrums.

Another related energy scheme is tidal force, where
bays are damed to generate electricity.

So what are the downside of deploying floating solar panels which
electrolyze sea water, with regular LH2 ship traffic making pickup and
delivery? Sounds like millions of sq. miles of real estate that even
nature wouldn't care if it was patchwork covered over.

H2-powered ships with PV cladding could leave port virtually empty and
arrive home full. What's the downside?


With current technology, the downside is cost. There are a lot of promising
prospects for greatly enhancing the efficiency of solar, and what we need is
a "Manhattan Project"-type effort to bring them to fruition. With the
oilies in charge, we have no such thing of course. Prgress continues, but
much slower than it ought to and too slowly to have much short-term hope for
the kind of thing you describe.


Baloney. FUD from the oil, gas and coal carbon-lobby.

EMC was patented by the Black Talon Bullets, Winchester Ammo.
FUD-Meisters at Olin corporation over 40 years ago. It has been proven
in the commecial industrial metals industry that long. A series of 20
improvement patents were taken by Olin. In 1986 YOUR National Renewable
Energy Labs adapted the idea to Silicon -- after all, Si's melting
point is right in there among the various metals that EMC melts and
casts as ingots. NREL took out their patent on using EMC for PV SoG Si
ingot casting. Sumitomo Sitix in Japan and Seimens in Germany cast huge
quantities of the stuff, commercially, within the existing frameworks
of capitalism.

EMC PV SoG Si is mature and thoroughly proven. A chinese National
Laboratory has pages showing they are pursuing this agressively. The
patent is expired and anybody worldwide can ffollow the recipe.

EMC makes cheap Si PV fast in large bulk quantity. It is the lowest
cost, fastes technology known to the human race.

Computations show that solar panels covering 0.8 acres can power one
EMC furnace at 36KWs and that the solar power to duplicate 0.8 acres of
cells is 32 regular average sunny days. THat's about oncce per month
that the power supply duplicates by power of 2. In a year there are 12
duplications of powers of two:
2x2x2x2x2x2x2x2x2x2x2x2 = 4096. THere's enough power in one 0.8 acres
to make 4,096 furnaces producing 17 GWs per year of new capacity. 4,096
x 0.8 acres is about 4 sq. miles of desert or prarie that nobody wants
anyway.

The same math covers floating doldrums.

Olin corporation has been a huge funder to science frauds to keep the
public ignorant and stupid. Olin Chlorine & Pollution supported
Lie-Factories receiving Olin loot...

http://www.mediatransparency.org/fun...php?funderID=7

http://www.mediatransparency.org/rec...php?funderID=7
Heritage Foundation, The $8,320,835
American Enterprise Institute for Public Policy Research $7,022,124
George Mason University $6,665,824
Hoover Institution on War, Revolution and Peace $5,015,660
Manhattan Institute for Policy Research, Inc. $4,899,500
Federalist Society for Law and Public Policy Studies, The $4,008,000
Columbia University $3,889,000

Pat Michaels & Fred Singer's base of some operations:
University of Virginia $3,479,066

Hudson Institute, Inc. $3,034,840
Council on Foreign Relations $1,392,000
Citizens for a Sound Economy Foundation $1,375,000
Brookings Institution $1,217,000
Independent Women's Forum $776,000
Pacific Research Institute for Public Policy $735,000
Philanthropy Roundtable $729,000
Rockefeller University $500,000
Media Research Center, Inc. $495,000
Foundation for Research on Economics and the Environment (FREE)
$484,250
Acton Institute For The Study of Religion and Liberty $390,500
Alexis de Tocqueville Institution $362,500
George C. Marshall Institute $350,000
American Law and Economics Association $316,398
Reason Foundation $276,500
Competitive Enterprise Institute $230,300
American Legislative Exchange Council $215,000



What's an EMC furnace? and that much power is even possible though
solar?! holy crap!
- Robin

ElectroMagneic Casting is a process formerly under patent, but now
expired so that anyone can do it. The description is in the Patent
Office records.

Simply it is a corral of stainless steel tubes with water flowing
through to cool them from melting. Auound these tubes is coils of thick
busbars which carry radio frequency ergery at high power, like 36,000
watts. THe EMF (Electromagneic Force) of the radio waves cooks the
contents between the corral of tubes to melting point. The bottom is a
heat-protected graphite platform which can be slowly lowered. Material
is poured in on top. The melted material is repelled from the stainless
tubes by the EMF -- it is called electromagnetic levitation.

THe platform is lowered at a slow rate. The molten material below the
coils cools and solidifies. But continuing to replenish the matetial up
top you can draw out large blocks of solid cast material.

With Silicon, this hardens with mutiple crystallization points or
domains, and produces MultiCrystaline (MC) or PolyCrystaline (PC)
ingots. MC PV is not as efficient as Cz PV MonoCrystalline stock, but
the EMC process is so much cheaper and faster that "who cares"? When
you can turn out 20 times or 40 times as much PV waferstock per day as
Cz and your waferstock is half as efficient you still have produced a
lot more PV cell material for lots less energy or investment.

EMC PV SoG Si is 13% to 14% efficient. I always use the more
conservative figure so that surprises are toward the good surprise
rather than towards the disappointing surprize. 13% PV will make 12
watts DV per sq. ft.

MC PV will still make some juice in cloudy or less than direct hours,
so the average hours of sunlight are claimed as 7 average full hours
per day. This would vary by season, and by local climate cloud-cover. 7
hours per day covers much of the USA. 5 hours average in New England.
In summer you might get 14 hours of use.

a 2000 sq.ft house covered with PV could generate 2000 x 12 = 24KWs per
hour for 7 hours. Most homes can't use 24KWs. It comes out as DC.
Conversion to AC is desired, but DC is directly usable by people who
want more of their energy going into useful power instead of the losses
by conversion to AC electricity. AC can be stored by selling it to the
grid and drawing it back at night. DC can be stored as H2. Then you can
run your car off it.

Decentralized EMC PV SoG Si furnaces are about the size of an SUV and
cost less to make and use much less technology than an SUV. Local
cottage industries can handle the demand for PV waferstock in every
town and city. It is a totaly clean industry. It can't ever be
monopolized and controlled from central Kremlins.

Time for an insulin shot. When my spelling goes dyslexic I know I need
one.

Let me post this again with the spelling errors fixed.

LoreCaster wrote:
Melchizedek wrote:
Steve Bloom wrote:

"Melchizedek" wrote in message
roups.com...

Roger Coppock wrote:

LIke the "self-winding" watch, this will provide power
and may even propel a ship. HOWEVER, there are
places on the sea called "Doldrums" where there are
no waves or air currents at all.

When I took my two-master through them, you could
use the sea for a mirror. We had to wait a couple of
weeks to catch a puff of wind. This scheme, like the
sails of my boat, would not work in the Doldrums.

Another related energy scheme is tidal force, where
bays are damed to generate electricity.

So what are the downside of deploying floating solar panels which
electrolyze sea water, with regular LH2 ship traffic making pickup and
delivery? Sounds like millions of sq. miles of real estate that even
nature wouldn't care if it was patchwork covered over.

H2-powered ships with PV cladding could leave port virtually empty and
arrive home full. What's the downside?

With current technology, the downside is cost. There are a lot of promising
prospects for greatly enhancing the efficiency of solar, and what we need is
a "Manhattan Project"-type effort to bring them to fruition. With the
oilies in charge, we have no such thing of course. Prgress continues, but
much slower than it ought to and too slowly to have much short-term hope for
the kind of thing you describe.

Baloney. FUD from the oil, gas and coal carbon-lobby.

EMC was patented by the Black Talon Bullets, Winchester Ammo.
FUD-Meisters at Olin corporation over 40 years ago. It has been proven
in the commecial industrial metals industry that long. A series of 20
improvement patents were taken by Olin. In 1986 YOUR National Renewable
Energy Labs adapted the idea to Silicon -- after all, Si's melting
point is right in there among the various metals that EMC melts and
casts as ingots. NREL took out their patent on using EMC for PV SoG Si
ingot casting. Sumitomo Sitix in Japan and Seimens in Germany cast huge
quantities of the stuff, commercially, within the existing frameworks
of capitalism.

EMC PV SoG Si is mature and thoroughly proven. A chinese National
Laboratory has pages showing they are pursuing this agressively. The
patent is expired and anybody worldwide can ffollow the recipe.

EMC makes cheap Si PV fast in large bulk quantity. It is the lowest
cost, fastes technology known to the human race.

Computations show that solar panels covering 0.8 acres can power one
EMC furnace at 36KWs and that the solar power to duplicate 0.8 acres of
cells is 32 regular average sunny days. THat's about oncce per month
that the power supply duplicates by power of 2. In a year there are 12
duplications of powers of two:
2x2x2x2x2x2x2x2x2x2x2x2 = 4096. THere's enough power in one 0.8 acres
to make 4,096 furnaces producing 17 GWs per year of new capacity. 4,096
x 0.8 acres is about 4 sq. miles of desert or prarie that nobody wants
anyway.

The same math covers floating doldrums.

Olin corporation has been a huge funder to science frauds to keep the
public ignorant and stupid. Olin Chlorine & Pollution supported
Lie-Factories receiving Olin loot...

http://www.mediatransparency.org/fun...php?funderID=7

http://www.mediatransparency.org/rec...php?funderID=7
Heritage Foundation, The $8,320,835
American Enterprise Institute for Public Policy Research $7,022,124
George Mason University $6,665,824
Hoover Institution on War, Revolution and Peace $5,015,660
Manhattan Institute for Policy Research, Inc. $4,899,500
Federalist Society for Law and Public Policy Studies, The $4,008,000
Columbia University $3,889,000

Pat Michaels & Fred Singer's base of some operations:
University of Virginia $3,479,066

Hudson Institute, Inc. $3,034,840
Council on Foreign Relations $1,392,000
Citizens for a Sound Economy Foundation $1,375,000
Brookings Institution $1,217,000
Independent Women's Forum $776,000
Pacific Research Institute for Public Policy $735,000
Philanthropy Roundtable $729,000
Rockefeller University $500,000
Media Research Center, Inc. $495,000
Foundation for Research on Economics and the Environment (FREE)
$484,250
Acton Institute For The Study of Religion and Liberty $390,500
Alexis de Tocqueville Institution $362,500
George C. Marshall Institute $350,000
American Law and Economics Association $316,398
Reason Foundation $276,500
Competitive Enterprise Institute $230,300
American Legislative Exchange Council $215,000
What's an EMC furnace? and that much power is even possible though
solar?! holy crap!
- Robin

ElectroMagnetic Casting is a process formerly under patent, but now
expired so that anyone can do it. The description is in the Patent
Office records.

Simply it is a corral of stainless steel tubes with water flowing
through to cool them from melting. Around these tubes is coils of thick
busbars which carry radio frequency energy at high power, like 36,000
watts. The EMF (Electromagnetic Force) of the radio waves cooks the
contents between the corral of tubes to melting point. The bottom is a
heat-protected graphite platform which can be slowly lowered. Material
is poured in on top. The melted material is repelled from the stainless
tubes by the EMF -- it is called electromagnetic levitation.

The platform is lowered at a slow rate. The molten material below the
coils cools and solidifies. But continuing to replenish the matetial up
top you can draw out large blocks of solid cast material.

With Silicon, this hardens with multiple crystallization points or
domains, and produces MultiCrystaline (MC) or PolyCrystaline (PC)
ingots. MC PV is not as efficient as Cz PV MonoCrystalline stock, but
the EMC process is so much cheaper and faster that "who cares"? When
you can turn out 20 times or 40 times as much PV waferstock per day as
Cz and your waferstock is half as efficient you still have produced a
lot more PV cell material for lots less energy or investment.

EMC PV SoG Si is 13% to 14% efficient. I always use the more
conservative figure so that surprises are toward the good surprise
rather than towards the disappointing surprize. 13% PV will make 12
watts DC per sq. ft.

MC PV will still make some juice in cloudy or less than direct hours,
so the average hours of sunlight are claimed as 7 average full hours
per day. This would vary by season, and by local climate cloud-cover. 7
hours per day covers much of the USA. 5 hours average in New England.
In summer you might get 14 hours of use.

A 2000 sq.ft house covered with PV could generate 2000 x 12 = 24KWs per
hour for 7 hours. Most homes can't use 24KWs. It comes out as DC.
Conversion to AC is desired, but DC is directly usable by people who
want more of their energy going into useful power instead of the losses
by conversion to AC electricity. AC can be stored by selling it to the
grid and drawing it back at night. DC can be stored as H2. Then you can
run your car off it.

Decentralized EMC PV SoG Si furnaces are about the size of an SUV and
cost less to make and use much less technology than an SUV. Local
cottage industries can handle the demand for PV waferstock in every
town and city. It is a totaly clean industry. It can't ever be
monopolized and controlled from central Kremlins. The metallic-grade Si
feedstock is still monopoly controlled. Once people have some high
temperature experience we can show them the path out of that trap too.