bcc

Reply to James Woodward and then Shipov's message.

http://chaos.fullerton.edu/Woodward.html


On Sep 17, 2005, at 11:41 PM, james f woodward wrote:

"Shipov, while claiming to support Sarfatti's incorrect remark about
"weightless warp drive" in fact, however, makes precisely my point:
manipulation, in this case, of the torsion field alters the MASSES (read
inertia) of things. If it did not, there would be no effect of
interest. Weightlessness can be achieved by almost anything by simple
geodesic motion. "Warp drive" (and its various other metric
equivalents) is not simple weightlessness. It requires the manipulation
of the masses of things.

Red Herring, I never claimed ""Warp drive" (and its various other metric
equivalents) is simple weightlessness." I claim any good warp drive must
have the occupants weightless.



Jim
You are completely wrong in your physics here. You do not understand
MTW's "Gravitation" or any of Wheeler's other books on Space-Time
physics. The rest mass m is completely irrelevant to timelike geodesic
motion in curved space-time. Even in Newtonian physics

F = ma

F = - GMm/r^2

a = -GM/r^2

The mass m of the ship cancels out of the equation. You do not seem to
understand even that? Weight W obeys

W = mg

remember?

g = 0 on a timelike geodesic in curved space-time because of the
equivalence principle (LC) = 0 in the LIF. Remember? m does not change.
e/m does not change.

The whole point of metric engineering is to change the shape of the
timelike geodesic that the ship is on from the ship itself (e.g.
Alcubierre). If you change the rest masses of the constituents of the
ship, which you can do in principle by changing the Higgs vacuum order
parameter amplitude, you destroy the ship - and maybe the whole universe!

Warp drive does not require the "the manipulation of the masses of
things" that is a deep misunderstanding. It is not true of Alcubierre's
solution. Jim does not seem to understand Einstein's general relativity
here. Metric engineering is the direct control of the timelike geodesic
structure of the local geometrodynamic field guv(x) at the ship itself
from the ship. The rest mass m of the ship is completely irrelevant.
Motion of the center of mass of a complex object on a timelike geodesic
without rotation about the center of mass is continuously "weightless",
but the rest inertia m of parts of the object are still present
obviously as is common experience in the Space Shuttle.


On Sep 18, 2005, at 2:10 AM, Gennady Shipov wrote:


----- Original Message -----
From: "Jack Sarfatti"
To:
Sent: Sunday, September 18, 2005 12:23 AM
Subject: Weightless Warp Drive, WMD & Russian-Chinese Torsion Field R&D


Revised, corrected, expanded Draft #2

Memorandum for the Official Record
Subject: Metric Engineering of Weightless Warp Drive for USAF, RAF &
IAF Fighters
From: Jack Sarfatti, Ph.D. (theoretical physics, UC degree)
To: MASINT, NID, DIA et-al

Jack Sarfatti
The Russians and Chinese are actively pursuing this line of inquiry
as are the Indians allegedly at the Tata Institute primarily.

I am using the modern local frame-invariant Cartan forms math that is
in Rovelli's "Quantum Gravity" book, in John Baez's "Gravity, Gauge,
Knots" book, and in the appendices of Sean Carroll's new text book.

Gennady is using the more cumbersome old-fashioned tensor indices
method historically used by Einstein. The algebra is much simpler in
the Cartan forms language but the results should be essentially the
same.

I am also using the local gauge invariance principle that Gennady
does not use explicitly. In addition to that I introduce spontaneous
symmetry breakdown of the physical vacuum in which the Einstein-
Cartan tetrad field is proportional to the "gradient" of the local
macro-quantum coherent "supersolid" phase of the vacuum itself.
I smoothly join this to the standard model's Higgs field mechanism
for the origin of the inertia of leptons and quarks via the Yukawa
coupling. None of this "subspace" or "substratum" physics is in
Gennady's low-energy semi-phenomenological effective c-number field
theory approach historically used by Einstein 100 years ago before
the modern physics was even developed.

Gennady Shipov

In my book "A Theory of Physical Vacuum ", which has appeared at you
library in 2000, I use formalism of external differential forms (pp.
194-196).. Look attentively, or look the attachment and my website
http://www.shipov.com\

10-4 I have your book. Thanks for reminding me. :-)

But to receive a solution of the vacuum equations , index record is
necessary for me to present the equations component by component.


On Sep 17, 2005, at 2:12 AM, Gennady Shipov wrote:


Dear Jack!

Let's make an agreement about what the torsion field is .

1. I work with the manifold of oriented points, instead of the points
manifold of Riemann geometry.


Jack Sarfatti

My way of saying the above is locally gauge the 10-parameter Poincare
group of global special relativity to get a 10-dimensional manifold
for the configuration space of the "point" test particle. That is, we
have 6 additional local scalar fields one for each element of the Lie
algebra of the local Lorentz group O(1,3). These scalar fields form
the elements of the antisymmetric Diff(4) tensor torsion 2-form

T(x) = T(x)uvdx^u/\dx^v = De(x) = de(x) + W(x)/\e(x)

D = d + W(x)/\

is the Diff(4) covariant exterior derivative, /\ is Cartan's exterior
product

Diff(4) is locally gauged T4

The Poincare group is T4*O(1,3)

Tuv(x) = (hG/c^3)arg(Vacuum ODLRO)[,u,v]

,u is ordinary partial derivative, [ ] is the antisymmetric commutator

Torsion means that the mixed 2nd-order partial derivatives of the
mean Goldstone phase of the local physical vacuum (post-inflation)
order parameter are not equal, e.g. Hagen Kleinert's "multi-valued
gauge transformations", "Dirac strings", Michael Berry's "phase
singularities", Abrikosov's "branch cut phase jumps" for lattices of
magnetic vortices in Type II superconductors (ref. "Topological
Quantum Mechanics" David Thouless).

e(x) = Einstein-Cartan 1-form tetrad field.

W(x) = Spin-connection equivalent to the Levi-Civita connection.

e(x)' = e(x) + S(x) = 1 + B(x) + S(x)

B(x) is the compensating 1-form tidal geodesic deviation curvature
gauge potential from locally gauging T4 to Diff(4).

S(x) is the compensating 1-form torsion gauge potential from locally
gauging O(1,3) to what for now I will call O*(1,3).

By DEFINITION

De(x) = de(x) + W(x)/\e(x) = 0

Therefore B(x) determines W(x).

T(x) = D'e'(x) = dS(x) + W(x)/\S(x) + S(x)/\(1 + B(x) + S(x))

Where D' = D + S(x)/\

when S(x) = 0 then T(x) = 0

Therefore, the torsion 2-form T(x) depends on both the curvature W(x)
spin connection and the torsion potential S(x).

The Einstein-Hilbert action density is the 4-form

R(x)/\e(x)/\e(x) + /\zpfe(x)/\e(x)/\e(x)/\e(x)

where the curvature 2-form is

R(x) = DW(x) = dW(x) + W(x)/\W(x)

Einstein's exotic vacuum field equation from the action principle is
the 3-form equation

R(x)/\e(x) + /\zpfe(x)/\e(x)/\e(x) = 0

However, the Bianchi identities are

DR(x) = 0

But we also have

De(x) = 0

Therefore, obviously /\zpf must be a true constant when S(x) = 0.

This all changes when we have S(x) =/= 0

Define

R'(x) = D'(W(x) + S(x)) = dW(x) + dS(x) + (W(x) + S(x))/\(W(x) + S(x))

The new Bianchi identity is

D'R'(x) = 0

Note, that in ordinary 1915 GR where S(x) = 0

DR(x) = 0 (Diff(4) analog of Maxwell's U(1) dF = 0)

D*R(x) = *J(x) (Diff(4) analog of Maxwell's U(1) d*F = *J)

* = Hodge dual

Local conservation of stress-energy current densities is

D^2R(x) = D*J(x) = 0 (Diff(4) analog of Maxwell's U(1) d^2*F = d*J = 0)

Absolute parallelism means, obviously

R'(x) = 0



Shipov wrote: "2. On the manifold of oriented points the geometry absolute
parallelism ,which possesses Ricci torsion Omega^i_jk (object
anholomomity on
Schouten) is set."


Jack Sarfatti

I do not know that old cumbersome formalism. I prefer the above more
elegant simpler more powerful formalism because I am definitely a
"Lazy Dog" from the "Olympia Academy." ;-)


Shipov: "3. I name as a torsion field Ricci rotational coefficients
T^i_jk, which represent contorsion tensor of spaces of absolute
parallelism."


In Cartan language

Tuv = Tuv^a&a

&a is a co-form vector field basis in the tangent space.

You can then write

Tuv^w = Tuv^ae'^wa

I use u,v,w for 0,1,2,3 in base space and i,j,l = 1,2,3 in a
spacelike slice 3-geometry.


Shipov: "4.The geometry of absolute parallelism can be set by
localization of
non-uniform Lorentz group (or Poincare's group)."


I need to see your equations for that to understand your words.
"Localization" is what I mean by "locally gauging."


Shipov: "5.Torsion field in my theory describes inertial properties of
mass.
Operating by torsion fields, it is possible to change inertial mass of
an object."


Jack Sarfatti

Why change it? It's very dangerous to change inertial mass because
then you change e/m ratios and as shown by Barrow & Tipler, by Paul
Davies, by Martin Rees et-al, you destroy matter in a huge WMD
explosion that can even destroy our entire universe. See, for
example, "Our Final Hour" Chapter 11 by Sir Martin Rees. My idea is
to leave m alone and simply change the shape of the local timelike
geodesic glide path as I tried to explain to James Woodward in the
previous message. Indeed you can change it by changing the intensity
of the Higgs field on the scale of 1-fermi but we want to avoid doing
so at all costs or else we will destroy the entire universe. That's a
good enough reason for ET to be here to make sure we do not destroy
them too!



Gennady Shipov
"I have shown in my work that to change inertial rest mass it is possible,
having created rotation of masses and having received (as result) not
compensated forces of inertia inside of the system

See my work on http://www.trinitas.ru "

Are you changing the inertial mass or have you changed the shape of the
geodesic? -- is the the question here.


Shipov: "6.Torsion fields create local Riemann curvature of space,
therefore operating by torsion fields, it is possible to operate by
local Riemann curvature and thus to carry out weightless or inertialess.
Jack, from my point of view you are right both as in my theory
weightless and inertialess is the same."


Jack Sarfatti

What I mean by "weightless" is simply (LC) ~ 0 for the occupants of
the ship, i.e. no g-forces felt inside the ship in a dog fight. The
UFO makes sharp turns at tremendous speeds that would rip a jet
fighter apart from the g-force yet inside the crew is effectively
"standing still" weightless in free float. It's the idea of the
Alcubierre warp drive solution taken to the next step of finesse.


Gennady Shipov: "In my theory I mean by "weightless" compensation of
gravitational forces by forces of inertia. Yes, in Einsten's theory it
is simply (LC) ~ 0."


Shipov Gennady.

----- Original Message -----
From: "james f woodward"
To:

Sent: Saturday, September 17, 2005 2:59 PM
Subject: Weightless Warp Drive


Woodward: :I said EFFECTIVELY inertialess. And that is correct. Weightless
is not correct.

On Fri, 16 Sep 2005 23:41:59 -0700 Jack Sarfatti

writes:

means you can dogfight without a pressure suit. Stop talking about
it? Why? So that the USAF will lose the War in Space? Woodward here
confuses weight W with inertia m.

W = mg

only works for a non-geodesic.


"The distinctive thing about the metric(s) you're interested in
is that they render things/regions effectively inertialess. Yes,
inertialess. :-)" Woodward



On a geodesic g = 0 but m is still what it always is as in e/m for
example.

I ignore SR corrections for now.

Woodward above says m = 0 on the geodesic with g =/= 0 - that is
wrong physics.

In GR g ~ c^2(LC)^i00

i = 1,2,3

(LC) is the torsion-free Levi-Civita connection that is zero on a
timelike geodesic.

On Sep 16, 2005, at 9:44 PM, Jack Sarfatti wrote:


On Sep 16, 2005, at 8:50 PM, james f woodward wrote:


"You've got to stop talking about "weightless warp drive".
Everything in orbit is "weightless", but none of it can go
cavorting around the cosmos."


I am talking about metric engineering, i.e. shaping the
geodesic as desired for flight.


ET to Professor Woodward ;-):

The basic equation is

Guv + /\zpfguv = 0

By manipulating /\zpf with phase-locking to the vacuum phase,

/\zpf(x) ~ (Vacuum Coherence Length)^-1(Control Coherence Length)
^-1 cos(Vacuum Phase(x) - Control Phase(x))



Vacuum Phase(x) - Control Phase(x) = 2pi(Trapped flux at x/
Quantum of flux)



you shape the local geodesic path of the ship as desired.
That's what metric engineering means. I think even Hal Puthoff
and Eric Davis understand that much? At least I hope so. To get
more technical for everyone else. Woodward is stuck in the the
test particle approximation in which the weightless geodesic
motion of a ship cannot be changed by the ship itself. That is,
the ship is a test particle that receives its marching orders
from spacetime, but does not directly change the shape of space-
time in its immediate vicinity. Warp drive changes all that!



On Fri, 16 Sep 2005 01:36:25 -0700 Jack Sarfatti

writes:




Memorandum for the Record

Subject: The necessity of the Russian torsion fields for weightless
warp drive of the UFOs.

On Sep 15, 2005, at 7:45 PM, Jack Sarfatti wrote:

On Sep 14, 2005, at 9:47 AM, a retired US Naval Intelligence
Officer wrote:

"Yes, and I applaud your efforts to extend GR to include
torsion; as you know, I too have always believed torsion is vital for
propellantless propulsion. Seems like some small-scale
engineering experimental method is needed to test your math"


My math is quite solid. I mean my proof that you cannot have
weightless warp drive without the torsion field in the sense of
the Moscow physicist Gennady Shipov. That is, without
Shipov's torsion, the residual zero point vacuum dark energy
density field proportional to /\zpf cannot vary in space and
time because of the 1915 GR Bianchi identities. Every
physicist in the field will agree with that much. The good
data on UFOs shows the reality of the torsion fields. No Paul
Hill "acceleration field" without torsion fields.

The curved part of the tetrad field B ~ (hG/c^3)^1/2@(x)^a(Pa/
ih) where {Pa/ih} is the Lie algebra of T4 and @(x)^a are the 4
space-time dependent phases from the local gauging of T4 - Diff(4).
Similarly for the torsion 2-form T ~ (hG/c^3)@(x)^a^bSab
where {Sab} is the Lie algebra of O(1,3) and @(x)^a^b are the 6 space-time
dependent phases of the local gauging of O(1,3).

Also

B = Budx^u is a dimensionless 1-form for the curved part of the
Einstein-Cartan tetrad

Bu = Bu^a&a

T = Tuvdx^u/\dx^v

Tuv = Tuv^a&a

{&a} is the basis of 1-co-forms (tangent vectors) in the
tangent space

{dx^u} is the basis of 1-forms in the base space

The Einstein-Cartan tetrad field is

e' = e + S

e = 1 + B

B = (hG/c^3)d(Goldstone Phase of Vacuum ODLRO Higgs Field)

S is the torsion 1-form and the problem is to find its
relation to the torsion 2-form

T = D'e' = de' + (W + S)/\e'

d1 = 0

W is the torsion-free spin connection of 1915 GR that is
completely determined from B.

T = dB + dS + (W + S)/\(1 + B + S)

However by definition

dB + W/\(1 + B) = 0

Therefore, the basic curvature-torsion equation is

T = dS + W/\S + S/\(1 + B + S)

OK, I think I now have the correct formula.

Recall that 1915 GR is simply the EEP

guv(curved) = (Iu^a + B(x)u^a)nab(flat)(Iv^b + B(x)v^b)


"but Shipov's toy models don't appear to test your math."


I don't know.



From: Jack Sarfatti

Subject: Exotic weapons torsion field R&D in Mainland
China?



Date: Tue, 13 Sep 2005 13:16:47 -0700

Yes, but even more important I have the math down
completely now for all this stuff. The Chinese are BS'ing in that
article. It's flakey.
On Sep 13, 2005, at 12:49 PM, ... US Naval Intelligence,
ret,wrote:


"Whether info or disfo, this is interesting and China is a
developing threat, much more so than many realize."


From: Jack Sarfatti
To: Kit Green ...
Subject: Exotic weapons torsion field R&D in Mainland
China?



Date: Tue, 13 Sep 2005 11:18:33 -0700

Memorandum For The Record

Subject: Threat Assessment

http://www.halturnershow.com/
ChineseDefenseMinisterTalksWarAgainstUS.html

The Chinese report below appears to be mostly disinformation &
misinformation for foreigners. That does not preclude real fire covered
by smoke and mirrors.

Important background information on the torsion physics
mentioned below is at
http://qedcorp.com/APS/zpf2005.pdf updated periodically
also Discussion Forum at http://stardrive.org
and in 3 books:
Destiny Matrix
Space-Time & Beyond II
Super Cosmos
http://amazon.com

On Sep 12, 2005, at 10:23 PM, Gennady Shipov wrote:


"Jack!

In China very quickly develop torsion technologies.

Look at the attachment."


Jack Sarfatti :

Of course, back then this was not understood.
Bureaucrats like ... in DIA are holding USG back in
this whole field in US Defense Effort. Meantime the
Indians, Chinese, Iranians, Ukrainians and Russians are
forging ahead. It's no accident that I was invited to
publish in a book from the Ukranian Academy of
Sciences in Kiev. Those guys are not stupid. The
Chinese are really open to this stuff. Note the new
Russian-Chinese
joint War Games. Gennady Shipov is attacked by some of
his "KGB"
colleagues, but I now can prove that we do need his
torsion field to make all of this advanced weaponry
really work! We see the torsion weaponry out there in
the UFO data of Bruce Maccabee, NIDS et-al. So someone
knows how to do it and we don't.

Shipov Gennady:
"Jack!
In China very quickly develop torsion technologies.
Look the attachment."


My preliminary comments for the record, indeed my
equations show the interplay of the Russian torsion
fields with the zero point vacuum energy density that
would probably explain the anomalous "cold fusion" data
that in reality is release of dark energy if cold fusion
exists.



"Xing•liu Jiang, Xiong•wei Wen, China Science School,
Beijing University of Aeronautics and Astronautics,
Beijing
100083 and Li•jun Han, China Department of Materials
Science
and Engineering, Beijing University of Aeronautics and
Astronautics, Beijing 100083

ABSTRACT
Highly localized nuclear activation in electrochemical
systems and other electrical discharge processes have
been
observed by many laboratories in the world. This
report is
an attempt to explain such anomalous phenomena by using
torsion field theory and axion model. Anisotopic
behaviours
of radiation products, burst character, "heat after
death"
of excess energy release in electrical discharge
systems are
considered to be interpreted by the torsion coherence of
vortex dynamics with the zero point energy induced by
localized intense field emission of micro-protrusion ofthe
cathode, and the dynamic Casimir effect of transient
evolution of triple region of gas, liquid solution, and
electrode protrusion. Axion model and Primakoff's
effect are
proposed for explanation of nuclear transmutation without
noticeable gamma radiation."


These allegations cannot be checked without the
mathematics. Briefly here is the real story in terms of
mainstream physics. We use the elegant local frame
invariant Einstein-Cartan exterior differential forms
mathematics for the tetrad gravity field that is the
"square root" of Einstein's 1915
symmetric metric tensor field. The tetrad technique is
analogous to the Dirac "square root" of the quantum
Klein- Gordon equation. Note that the metric is the anti-
commutator of the Dirac matrices and Einstein's curved
space-time geometrodynamic field guv is a symmetric
bilinear form in the Einstein-Cartan tetrad 1-form field
e where

e = 1 + B

When B = 0 we have globally flat Minkowski space-time.
According to the local equivalence principle there is
no real gravity (i.e. geodesic deviation tidal
curvature) in that limit. Technically B is the
compensating gauge potential when global T4 of special
relativity is replaced by local Diff(4). In addition
using the charge neutral Vacuum ODLRO VEV Higgs-
Goldstone field for the spontaneous breakdown of SU(2)
hypercharge in the standard model we can write

B = (hG/c^3)^1/2d(Mean Goldstone Phase)

Goldstone Phase is a 0-form

No gravity & no inertia when h = 0 or 1/c = 0 even when
G =/= 0.
Gravity and inertia are emergent "More is different" (P.W.
Anderson) properties of the spontaneous breakdown of SU(2)
hypercharge symmetry in the physical vacuum consistent
with
the Standard Model explanation for inertia of quarks
and leptons.




d is the Cartan exterior derivative, and we use the mean
Goldstone Phase averaged over the internal indices of
non- abelian SU(2).

The d^2 = 0 rule is suspended due to non-trivial multiply-
connected manifold cohomology in physical space and in VEV
local order parameter space. I call this "Flux without
flux"



BTW like Wheeler's "Charge without charge". In Wheeler-
Feynman theory the gauge force connections are dynamically
redundant and are replaced by the source fields with
advanced
light cone propagators. See Hoyle & Narlikar for1915 GR
version of Wheeler- Feynman elimination of the EM field for
the gravity case. Whether this 1940 classical idea
survives
the transition to quantum field theory is an open
question of
course.

Ref. John Baez, Gravity & Knots
Hagen Kleinert on "multi-valued gauge transformations"
Michael Berry "phase singularities"
Dirac Strings
Abrikosov phase jump branch cuts in physical space in
Type II
superconducting magnetic vortex lattices

Therefore

F = dB =/= 0

If this were U(1) Maxwell EM field theory, the 4 Maxwell
equations would be in 2-lines

dF = 0 (metric independent - Faraday induction & no
magnetic




monopoles laws)

d*F = *J (metric/constitutive material-dependent
Ampere's & Gauss's laws)

* = Hodge dual p-form to N - p form in N-dim space-time.

hence

*d*F = J = current density 1-form

Local current density conservation is

d^2d*F = d*J = 0

Transition to gravity, i.e. General Relativity

W = spin connection

The Gennady Shipov torsion 2-form is

T = De = de + W/\e = dB + W/\(1 + B)

In 1915 GR

T = 0 , therefore W is determined completely by B.

In Gennady Shipov's theory O(1,3) is also locally gauged
to give T =/ = 0, so now W depends on both B & T.

What is the torsion connection 1-form S?

If we use S = *dT we get

e' = e + S = 1 + B + S

Only use e to get EEP

guv = (1u^I + Bu^I)nIJ(1v^J + Bv^J) ?

If we use S = *DT we seem to get an infinite regress for
W in terms of B & S.

Locally gauging entire Poincare group of 1905 SR gives
Shipov's 10D "oriented point", which is essentially D3
BRANE theory BTW!

Finally the curvature 2-Form is

R = DW = dW + W/\W

Why the torsion field is needed.

In 1915 GR the Bianchi identities using the zero torsion
tetrad

e = 1 + B

give

DR = 0

analogous to

d*J = 0 in EM

Einstein's exotic dark energy vacuum field equation is

R/\e + /\zpfe/\e/\e = 0 as a 3-form equation.

This implies that

D/\zpf = d/\zpf = 0

/\zpf is a 0-form

with

De = 0

i.e. /\zpf is a constant.

When we add torsion we get

D' = d + W/\ + S/\

with

D'R = 0

Therefore

DR =/= 0

hence

d/\zpf =/= 0

in presence of a torsion field.

The zero point dark energy-stress tensor is

tuv(zpf) = (c^4/8piG*)/\zpfguv

/\zpf 0 is repulsive dark energy of negative vacuum
pressure (blue shift)

/\zpf 0 is attractive dark matter (mis-named) of
positive vacuum pressure (red shift)

/\zpf ~ (vacuum coherence length)^-1(anyon condensate
coherence length)^-1cos(Vacuum Phase - Anyon Phase)

This permits low power practical metric engineering of
WEIGHTLESS Warp and Wormhole.

All the numerical PV estimates of Puthoff, Davis & Co
are completely irrelevant. No USG money should be spent
on high power laser bending of space-time - much too
small. No Bang a mere Whimper for a Big Buck! Waste of
tax money.

.... ahahaha... Master Jack has corrosion on his maahhhnd!... ahahaha...
"Jack Sarfatti" wrote in message
. ..
[Gennady Shipov]
"In my theory I mean by "weightless" compensation of gravitational forces by
forces of inertia. Yes, in Einsten's theory it is simply (LC) ~ 0."

[Woodward]
I said EFFECTIVELY inertialess. And that is correct. Weightless is not
correct.

[Jack Sarfatti]
We see the torsion weaponry out there in the UFO data of Bruce Maccabee, NIDS
et-al. So someone
knows how to do it and we don't.

[Shipov Gennady]
"Jack! In China very quickly develop torsion technologies.
Highly localized nuclear activation in electrochemical
systems and other electrical discharge processes have
been observed...

[Jack Sarfatti]:
d*F = *J (metric/constitutive material-dependent
Ampere's & Gauss's laws)
This permits low power practical metric engineering of
WEIGHTLESS Warp and Wormhole.

[hanson]
ahahaha... AHAHAHA... IWO, you 3 heavy weights here
are discussing CORROSION, the rusting of your own steel
buckets, ..... with the help of Einstein, UFO's, torsion tech,
warps and wormholes... all of whom/which are in various
states of corrosion themselves... ahahaha... OTOH, dudes,
your story/posts is/are great entertainment... even if they are
by'n large really weightless... ahahahaha... AHAHAHAHA.....
But, thanks for the laughs, guys.... ahaha... ahahanson