Astrologers fail to predict proof they are wrong - Telegraph.co.uk
(Filed: 17/08/2003)

Good news for rational, level-headed Virgoans everywhe just as you
might have predicted, scientists have found astrology to be rubbish,
writes Science Correspondent Robert Matthews.

Good news for rational, level-headed Virgoans everywhe just as you
might have predicted, scientists have found astrology to be rubbish.

Its central claim - that our human characteristics are moulded by the
influence of the Sun, Moon and planets at the time of our birth -
appears to have been debunked once and for all and beyond doubt by the
most thorough scientific study ever made into it.

For several decades, researchers tracked more than 2,000 people - most
of them born within minutes of each other. According to astrology, the
subject should have had very similar traits.



Starry eyed: Grant

The babies were originally recruited as part of a medical study begun
in London in 1958 into how the circumstances of birth can affect
future health. More than 2,000 babies born in early March that year
were registered and their development monitored at regular intervals.

Researchers looked at more than 100 different characteristics,
including occupation, anxiety levels, marital status, aggressiveness,
sociability, IQ levels and ability in art, sport, mathematics and
reading - all of which astrologers claim can be gauged from birth
charts.

The scientists failed to find any evidence of similarities between the
"time twins", however. They reported in the current issue of the
Journal of Consciousness Studies: "The test conditions could hardly
have been more conducive to success . . . but the results are
uniformly negative."

Analysis of the research was carried out by Geoffrey Dean, a scientist
and former astrologer based in Perth, Australia, and Ivan Kelly, a
psychologist at the University of Saskatchewan, Canada.

Dr Dean said the results undermined the claims of astrologers, who
typically work with birth data far less precise than that used in the
study. "They sometimes argue that times of birth just a minute apart
can make all the difference by altering what they call the 'house
cusps'," he said. "But in their work, they are happy to take whatever
time they can get from a client."

The findings caused alarm and anger in astrological circles yesterday.
Roy Gillett, the president of the Astrological Association of Great
Britain, said the study's findings should be treated "with extreme
caution" and accused Dr Dean of seeking to "discredit astrology".

Frank McGillion, a consultant to the Southampton-based Research Group
for the Critical Study of Astrology, said of the newly published work:
"It is simplistic and highly selective and does not cover all of the
research." He added that he would lodge a complaint with the editors
of the journal.

Astrologers have for centuries claimed to be able to extract deep
insights into the personality and destiny of people using nothing more
than the details of the time and place of birth.

Astrology has been growing in popularity. Surveys suggest that a
majority of people in Britain believe in it, compared with only 13 per
cent 50 years ago. The Association of Professional Astrologers claims
that 80 per cent of Britons read star columns, and psychological
studies have found that 60 per cent regularly read their horoscopes.

Despite the scepticism of scientists, astrology has grown to be a huge
worldwide business, spawning thousands of telephone lines, internet
sites and horoscope columns in newspapers and magazines.

It seems that no sector of society is immune to its attraction. A
recent survey found that a third of science students subscribed to
some aspects of astrology, while some supposedly hard-headed
businessmen now support a thriving market in "financial astrology" -
paying for predictions of trends such as the rise and fall of the
stock market. Astrology supplements have been known to increase
newspaper circulation figures and papers are prepared to pay huge sums
to the most popular stargazers.

Some of the most popular figures in the field, such as Russell Grant,
Mystic Meg and Shelley von Strunckel, can earn £600,000 or more a
year.

A single profitable astrology website can be worth as much as £50
million.

When the Daily Mail discovered that its expert on the zodiac, Jonathan
Cainer, was about to leave the newspaper in 1999, it reportedly
offered him a £1 million salary and a £1 million bonus to stay. He
still preferred the offer at the Daily Express: no salary but all the
money from his telephone lines.

The time-twins study is only the start of the bad news for
astrologers, however. Dr Dean and Prof Kelly also sought to determine
whether stargazers could match a birth chart to the personality
profile of a person among a random selection.

They reviewed the evidence from more than 40 studies involving over
700 astrologers, but found the results turned out no better than
guesswork.

The success rate did not improve even when astrologers were given all
the information they asked for and were confident they had made the
right choice.

Dr Dean said the consistency of the findings weighed heavily against
astrology.

"It has no acceptable mechanism, its principles are invalid and it has
failed hundreds of tests," he said. "But no hint of these problems
will be found in astrology books which, in effect, are exercises in
deception."

Dr Dean is ready for a torrent of criticism. He said: "I'm probably
the most hated person in astrology because I'm regarded as a
turncoat."

WHERE CARL SAGAN FAILED TO BE A SCIENTIST

On Fri, 20 Apr 2001,
www.mantra.com/jyotish (Dr. Jai Maharaj) wrote:

Where Carl Sagan failed to be a scientist

By Jai Maharaj

The late Carl Sagan was seen as one of the world's most
eloquent voices for science and reason, and deservedly
so. I will always be his fan, thanks to his books and
television series. Many of his theories, observations
and conclusions in cosmology are consistent with those of
our ancient Vedic sage-scientists.

Dr. Sagan wrote, "As far as I know, India is the only
ancient religious tradition on the Earth which talks
about the right time scale. In the West, people have the
sense that what is natural is for the universe to be a
few thousand years old, and that it is billions of years
is mind-reeling, and no one can understand it. The Hindu
concept is very clear. Here is a great world culture
which has always talked about billions of years."

Sagan set a basic example for his audience of millions by
doing what a scientist is supposed to do: reach a
conclusion about a topic after studying it thoroughly.
But there is at least one exception where he published
conclusions without studying a science. The science of
astrology attracted his attention enough for him to
criticize it based on preconceived notions, but he never
seems to have found the motivation to study it. The
following excerpt is from "The Demon-Haunted World" with
my comments:

"Many valid criticism of astrology can be formulated in a
few sentences: for example its acceptance of precession
of the equinoxes in announcing an 'Age of Aquarius' and
its rejection of precession of equinoxes in casting
horoscopes [1]; its neglect of atmospheric refraction
[2]; its list of supposedly significant celestial objects
that is mainly limited to naked eye objects known to
Ptolemy in the second century, and that ignores an
enormous variety of new astronomical objects discovered
since (where is the astrology of near-Earth asteroids?)
[3]; inconsistent requirements for detailed information
on the time as compared to the latitude and longitude of
birth [4]; the failure of astrology to pass the
identical-twin test [5]; the major differences in
horoscopes cast from the same birth information by
different astrologers [6]; and the absence of
demonstrated correlation between horoscopes and such
psychological tests as the Minnesota Multiphasic
Personality Inventory." [7] ("The Demon-Haunted World:
Science as a Candle in the Dark," Carl Sagan, page 303.)

My comments:

[1] Jyotish, Vedic, or Hindu astrology does take the
precession of the equinoxes into account -- it always
has. We are not in the "Age of Aquarius" by Jyotish
principles.

[2] Refraction is accounted for in Vedic astrology
calculations.

[3] Positions of both seen and not-seen, or subtle,
bodies in the sky are calculated and examined in Vedic
astrology. Asteroids are also taken into account.

[4] The requirements for the birth data of a person,
other entity or event for the time and geographical
coordinates are consistent in Vedic astrology.

[5] Even apparently-identical twins can be conceived at
different moments; Vedic astrology yields unique charts
offering significantly varying interpretation for the
smallest time differences.

[6] The interpretation of the same charts by different
astrologers is a function of their education, skill and
experience as in almost any science. How many scientists
are divided just on the topic of global warming?

[7] Did Sagan himself not say that the "absence of
evidence is not evidence of absence"? So the absence of
a "demonstrated correlation" is not proof of its absence.
Has any scientist, including Dr. Sagan, attempted to
correlate Vedic astrology interpretation and MMPI tests?

Perhaps Carl Sagan had planned to study scientific
astrology at some point and doubted his own criticism of
it, for in 1975 he did refuse to sign an "Objections to
Astrology" statement authored by Harvard astronomer Bart
Bok and science writer Lawrence Jerome, and endorsed by
nearly 200 scientists from the National Academy of
Sciences, U.S., including 19 Nobel Prize winners.

Jai Maharaj
http://www.mantra.com/jyotish
Om Shanti

"A king, though endowed with little prowess, starting on
an expedition at the proper time, in view of the good
positions of the planets, achieves greatness that is
eulogized in the scriptures." - Brhat Samhita, 104.60.

Copyright (C) 2001 Jai Maharaj. All Rights Reserved.

Not for commercial use. Solely to be fairly used for the
educational purposes of research and open discussion.


[ Subject: WHERE CARL SAGAN FAILED TO BE A SCIENTIST
[ Date: 2001-11-24
[
[ Jai, actually, astrology was and still the first
[ science.
[ And since causation has now been proven - Becker's
[ Cross Currents details the results of a lot of the
[ research involved -it won't be long before the
[ credentialed community will have to accept the truth of
[ the matter.
[
[ Regards, Pete
[
[ Pete Stapleton

Jai Maharaj
http://www.mantra.com/jai
Om Shanti

Hindu Holocaust Museum
http://www.mantra.com/holocaust

Hindu life, principles, spirituality and philosophy
http://www.hindu.org
http://www.hindunet.org

The truth about Islam and Muslims
http://www.flex.com/~jai/satyamevajayate

The terrorist mission of Jesus stated in the Christian bible:

"Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not so send
peace, but a sword.
"For I am come to set a man at variance against his father, and the
daughter against her mother, and the daughter in law against her mother in
law.
"And a man's foes shall be they of his own household.
- Matthew 10:34-36.

o Not for commercial use. Solely to be fairly used for the educational
purposes of research and open discussion. The contents of this post may not
have been authored by, and do not necessarily represent the opinion of the
poster. The contents are protected by copyright law and the exemption for
fair use of copyrighted works.
o If you send private e-mail to me, it will likely not be read,
considered or answered if it does not contain your full legal name, current
e-mail and postal addresses, and live-voice telephone number.
o Posted for information and discussion. Views expressed by others are
not necessarily those of the poster who may or may not have read the article.

FAIR USE NOTICE: This article may contain copyrighted material the use of
which may or may not have been specifically authorized by the copyright
owner. This material is being made available in efforts to advance the
understanding of environmental, political, human rights, economic,
democratic, scientific, social, and cultural, etc., issues. It is believed
that this constitutes a 'fair use' of any such copyrighted material as
provided for in section 107 of the US Copyright Law. In accordance with Title
17 U.S.C. Section 107, the material on this site is distributed without
profit to those who have expressed a prior interest in receiving the included
information for research, comment, discussion and educational purposes by
subscribing to USENET newsgroups or visiting web sites. For more information
go to: http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/17/107.shtml
If you wish to use copyrighted material from this article for purposes of
your own that go beyond 'fair use', you must obtain permission from the
copyright owner.

Since newsgroup posts are being removed
by forgery by one or more net terrorists,
this post may be reposted several times.

Dr. Jai Maharaj wrote:
WHERE CARL SAGAN FAILED TO BE A SCIENTIST

India

Objections to Astrology (ASSTROLOGY)
A Statement by 186 Leading Scientists

(The following statement first appeared in The Humanist of
September/October 1975.)

Scientists in a variety of fields have become concerned about the
increased acceptance of astrology in many parts of the world. We, the
undersigned--astronomers, astrophysicists, and scientists in other
fields--wish to caution the public against the unquestioning acceptance
of the predictions and advice given privately and publicly by
astrologers. Those who wish to believe in astrology should realize that
there is no scientific foundation for its tenets.

In ancient times people believed in the predictions and advice of
astrologers because astrology was part and parcel of their magical
world view. They looked upon celestial objects as abodes or omens of
the gods and, thus, intimately connected with events here on earth;
they had no concept of the vast distances from the earth to the planets
and stars. Now that these distances can and have been calculated, we
can see how infinitesimally small are the gravitational and other
effects produced by the distant planets and the far more distant stars.
It is simply a mistake to imagine that the forces exerted by stars and
planets at the moment of birth can in any way shape our futures.
Neither is it true that the position of distant heavenly bodies make
certain days or periods more favorable to particular kinds of action,
or that the sign under which one was born determines one's
compatibility or incompatibility with other people.

Why do people believe in astrology? In these uncertain times many long
for the comfort of having guidance in making decisions. They would like
to believe in a destiny predetermined by astral forces beyond their
control. However, we must all face the world, and we must realize that
our futures lie in ourselves, and not in the stars.

One would imagine, in this day of widespread enlightenment and
education, that it would be unnecessary to debunk beliefs based on
magic and superstition. Yet, acceptance of astrology pervades modern
society. We are especially disturbed by the continued uncritical
dissemination of astrological charts, forecasts, and horoscopes by the
media and by otherwise reputable newspapers, magazines, and book
publishers. This can only contribute to the growth of irrationalism and
obscurantism. We believe that the time has come to challenge directly,
and forcefully, the pretentious claims of astrological charlatans.

It should be apparent that those individuals who continue to have faith
in astrology do so in spite of the fact that there is no verified
scientific basis for their beliefs, and indeed that there is strong
evidence to the contrary.

Sponsoring Committee

(Affiliations, as of 1975, given for identification only.)

Bart J. Bok, emeritus
Professor of Astronomy
University of Arizona

Lawrence E. Jerome
Science Writer
Santa Clara, California

Paul Kurtz
Professor of Philosophy
SUNY at Buffalo

Signed by 183 others, including 18 Nobel Prizewinners

Carl Sagan's shortcoming was that he was a very great General Systems
Thinker, but unfortunately not in the very uppermost ranks, and
certainly not the greatest GST of all time. But then, you can't have
or know everything.

But he certainly had one thing right. Asstrology is pure bull****.

Dr. Jai Maharaj wrote:
WHERE CARL SAGAN FAILED TO BE A SCIENTIST

On Fri, 20 Apr 2001,
www.mantra.com/jyotish (Dr. Jai Maharaj) wrote:

Where Carl Sagan failed to be a scientist

By Jai Maharaj

The late Carl Sagan was seen as one of the world's most
eloquent voices for science and reason, and deservedly
so. I will always be his fan, thanks to his books and
television series. Many of his theories, observations
and conclusions in cosmology are consistent with those of
our ancient Vedic sage-scientists.

Dr. Sagan wrote, "As far as I know, India is the only
ancient religious tradition on the Earth which talks
about the right time scale. In the West, people have the
sense that what is natural is for the universe to be a
few thousand years old, and that it is billions of years
is mind-reeling, and no one can understand it. The Hindu
concept is very clear. Here is a great world culture
which has always talked about billions of years."

Sagan was a fool who was only even given
the Dr title, because his great-gandfather
actually was a doctor, rather than
a science fraud idiot promoting
chinese cultural reform.

Since oragutans came up with the billions
and billions and billions or years before India even existed.







Sagan set a basic example for his audience of millions by
doing what a scientist is supposed to do: reach a
conclusion about a topic after studying it thoroughly.
But there is at least one exception where he published
conclusions without studying a science. The science of
astrology attracted his attention enough for him to
criticize it based on preconceived notions, but he never
seems to have found the motivation to study it. The
following excerpt is from "The Demon-Haunted World" with
my comments:

"Many valid criticism of astrology can be formulated in a
few sentences: for example its acceptance of precession
of the equinoxes in announcing an 'Age of Aquarius' and
its rejection of precession of equinoxes in casting
horoscopes [1]; its neglect of atmospheric refraction
[2]; its list of supposedly significant celestial objects
that is mainly limited to naked eye objects known to
Ptolemy in the second century, and that ignores an
enormous variety of new astronomical objects discovered
since (where is the astrology of near-Earth asteroids?)
[3]; inconsistent requirements for detailed information
on the time as compared to the latitude and longitude of
birth [4]; the failure of astrology to pass the
identical-twin test [5]; the major differences in
horoscopes cast from the same birth information by
different astrologers [6]; and the absence of
demonstrated correlation between horoscopes and such
psychological tests as the Minnesota Multiphasic
Personality Inventory." [7] ("The Demon-Haunted World:
Science as a Candle in the Dark," Carl Sagan, page 303.)

My comments:

[1] Jyotish, Vedic, or Hindu astrology does take the
precession of the equinoxes into account -- it always
has. We are not in the "Age of Aquarius" by Jyotish
principles.

[2] Refraction is accounted for in Vedic astrology
calculations.

[3] Positions of both seen and not-seen, or subtle,
bodies in the sky are calculated and examined in Vedic
astrology. Asteroids are also taken into account.

[4] The requirements for the birth data of a person,
other entity or event for the time and geographical
coordinates are consistent in Vedic astrology.

[5] Even apparently-identical twins can be conceived at
different moments; Vedic astrology yields unique charts
offering significantly varying interpretation for the
smallest time differences.

[6] The interpretation of the same charts by different
astrologers is a function of their education, skill and
experience as in almost any science. How many scientists
are divided just on the topic of global warming?

[7] Did Sagan himself not say that the "absence of
evidence is not evidence of absence"? So the absence of
a "demonstrated correlation" is not proof of its absence.
Has any scientist, including Dr. Sagan, attempted to
correlate Vedic astrology interpretation and MMPI tests?

Perhaps Carl Sagan had planned to study scientific
astrology at some point and doubted his own criticism of
it, for in 1975 he did refuse to sign an "Objections to
Astrology" statement authored by Harvard astronomer Bart
Bok and science writer Lawrence Jerome, and endorsed by
nearly 200 scientists from the National Academy of
Sciences, U.S., including 19 Nobel Prize winners.

Jai Maharaj
http://www.mantra.com/jyotish
Om Shanti

"A king, though endowed with little prowess, starting on
an expedition at the proper time, in view of the good
positions of the planets, achieves greatness that is
eulogized in the scriptures." - Brhat Samhita, 104.60.

Copyright (C) 2001 Jai Maharaj. All Rights Reserved.

Not for commercial use. Solely to be fairly used for the
educational purposes of research and open discussion.


[ Subject: WHERE CARL SAGAN FAILED TO BE A SCIENTIST
[ Date: 2001-11-24
[
[ Jai, actually, astrology was and still the first
[ science.
[ And since causation has now been proven - Becker's
[ Cross Currents details the results of a lot of the
[ research involved -it won't be long before the
[ credentialed community will have to accept the truth of
[ the matter.
[
[ Regards, Pete
[
[ Pete Stapleton

Jai Maharaj
http://www.mantra.com/jai
Om Shanti

Hindu Holocaust Museum
http://www.mantra.com/holocaust

Hindu life, principles, spirituality and philosophy
http://www.hindu.org
http://www.hindunet.org

The truth about Islam and Muslims
http://www.flex.com/~jai/satyamevajayate

The terrorist mission of Jesus stated in the Christian bible:

"Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not so send
peace, but a sword.
"For I am come to set a man at variance against his father, and the
daughter against her mother, and the daughter in law against her mother in
law.
"And a man's foes shall be they of his own household.
- Matthew 10:34-36.

o Not for commercial use. Solely to be fairly used for the educational
purposes of research and open discussion. The contents of this post may not
have been authored by, and do not necessarily represent the opinion of the
poster. The contents are protected by copyright law and the exemption for
fair use of copyrighted works.
o If you send private e-mail to me, it will likely not be read,
considered or answered if it does not contain your full legal name, current
e-mail and postal addresses, and live-voice telephone number.
o Posted for information and discussion. Views expressed by others are
not necessarily those of the poster who may or may not have read the article.

FAIR USE NOTICE: This article may contain copyrighted material the use of
which may or may not have been specifically authorized by the copyright
owner. This material is being made available in efforts to advance the
understanding of environmental, political, human rights, economic,
democratic, scientific, social, and cultural, etc., issues. It is believed
that this constitutes a 'fair use' of any such copyrighted material as
provided for in section 107 of the US Copyright Law. In accordance with Title
17 U.S.C. Section 107, the material on this site is distributed without
profit to those who have expressed a prior interest in receiving the included
information for research, comment, discussion and educational purposes by
subscribing to USENET newsgroups or visiting web sites. For more information
go to: http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/17/107.shtml
If you wish to use copyrighted material from this article for purposes of
your own that go beyond 'fair use', you must obtain permission from the
copyright owner.

Since newsgroup posts are being removed
by forgery by one or more net terrorists,
this post may be reposted several times.

Dr. Jai Maharaj wrote:
WHERE CARL SAGAN FAILED TO BE A SCIENTIST
[3] Positions of both seen and not-seen, or subtle,
bodies in the sky are calculated and examined in Vedic
astrology. Asteroids are also taken into account.

How did the Vedics know about asteroids?


[5] Even apparently-identical twins can be conceived at
different moments; Vedic astrology yields unique charts
offering significantly varying interpretation for the
smallest time differences.


"Apparently identical??" Twins either are identical (monozygotic) or
not. There's a simple genetic test.

If they're monozygotic, their moment of conception is exactly the same.
How could it be otherwise? Do you know about the birds and the bees,
Dr. Jai?


SBH

Dr. Dumbass not only is dumb as a door nail but suffers from delusions
of grandeur. He thinks he is a doctor and a scientist, but he is
neither. He is nothing but an asstrologer peddling his sorry stuff by
trying to dress it up in a veneer of respectability by quoting true
scientists who would have laughed him out of the building. The doctor
who might be an idiot in other things is however, an astute
businessman. He fills the usenet with anti-christian posts to get a
rise out of the hindootva goon brigade who always seem to crowd around
him in appreciation. Then like Pavlov, he pushes the right buttons to
get this monkey brigade all salivating. This however is his master
marketing tactic to push his pseudo-scientific mumbo jumbo onto this
quivering mass of drooling deluded dunces - his target market. And
they lap it up. I am not sure who to feel more sorry for. There but
the grace of God go I.