From Synergetics:

Section 117.00 ... always assuming that 100 percent of the behaviors
must be accounted for. We are always dealing with 100 percent finite.
Experiment after experiment has shown that if there was something like
..000172 left over that you could not account for, you cannot just
dismiss it as an error in accounting. There must be some little energy
rascal in there that weighs .000172. They finally gave it a name, the
"whatson." And then eventually they set about some way to trap it in
order to observe it. It is dealing with the whole that makes it possible
to discover the parts. ...


Section 986.046 Cubical forms of wood and stone with approximately flat
faces and corner angles seemed to the Euclidean-led Ionians to
correspond satisfactorily with what was apparently a flat plane world to
which trees and humanly erected solid wooden posts and stone columns
were obviously perpendicular__ergo, logically parallel to one another.
....
---

Trees and buildings point away from the center of gravity of the earth,
not perpendicular to a plane. The pull of gravity that makes a pendulum
swing is not perpendicular to a plane, so Einstein's thought experiment
or heuristic of an accelerating rocket ship is only a flatlander's
approximation, I guess.

Do the web sites and books that show a mathematical analysis of the
pendulum show it on a round, round world? I'm just a little curious.

I got a little more curious and the first diagram I found is at:

http://monet.physik.unibas.ch/~elmer/pendulum/eqm1.htm

where the vector G = mg looks parallel to the y axis. That's not quite
correct, right?

It seems to me that the angle parameter should be a little bigger and
depend on the distance to the center of gravity of the earth where the y
axis and vector G = mg meet.

Cliff Nelson

Dry your tears, there's more fun for your ears,
"Forward Into The Past" 2 PM to 5 PM, Sundays,
California time, at: http://www.kspc.org/

Don't be a square or a blockhead; see:
http://users.adelphia.net/~cnelson9/

"Clifford J. Nelson" wrote:

From Synergetics:
[snip]

From hunger.

Trees and buildings point away from the center of gravity of the earth,

Bull****. Bull**** because of Coriolis acceleration, bull****
because of local mass inhomogeneities. A plumb line is off plumb
on the Tibetan Plateau - all that crap is stacked into big tall
heaps.

--
Uncle Al
http://www.mazepath.com/uncleal/
(Toxic URL! Unsafe for children and most mammals)
http://www.mazepath.com/uncleal/qz.pdf

Uncle Al wrote:

"Clifford J. Nelson" wrote:

From Synergetics:
[snip]

From hunger.

Trees and buildings point away from the center of gravity of the earth,

Bull****. Bull**** because of Coriolis acceleration, bull****
because of local mass inhomogeneities. A plumb line is off plumb
on the Tibetan Plateau - all that crap is stacked into big tall
heaps.

How about a plumb line at the base of a rock like El Capitan.
How many cubic miles of earth are you standing next to?
Enough to make a noticeable difference?

BTW, what would you measure a plumb line against? The sun rays at
noon?

Just a little, late night wondering.

Jim

Jim wrote:

Uncle Al wrote:


"Clifford J. Nelson" wrote:

From Synergetics:

[snip]


From hunger.

Trees and buildings point away from the center of gravity of the earth,

Bull****. Bull**** because of Coriolis acceleration, bull****
because of local mass inhomogeneities. A plumb line is off plumb
on the Tibetan Plateau - all that crap is stacked into big tall
heaps.


How about a plumb line at the base of a rock like El Capitan.
How many cubic miles of earth are you standing next to?
Enough to make a noticeable difference?

Yes. Gravitometers are widely used by petroleum prospectors. Guess why.

BTW, what would you measure a plumb line against? The sun rays at
noon?

Why not? Takes more than a puny Annapurna to deflect light noticeably.

Mark L. Fergerson

In article J7uXc.105743$Lj.95970@fed1read03,
Mark Fergerson wrote:

Jim wrote:

Uncle Al wrote:


"Clifford J. Nelson" wrote:

From Synergetics:

[snip]


From hunger.

Trees and buildings point away from the center of gravity of the earth,

Bull****. Bull**** because of Coriolis acceleration, bull****
because of local mass inhomogeneities. A plumb line is off plumb
on the Tibetan Plateau - all that crap is stacked into big tall
heaps.


How about a plumb line at the base of a rock like El Capitan.
How many cubic miles of earth are you standing next to?
Enough to make a noticeable difference?

Yes. Gravitometers are widely used by petroleum prospectors. Guess why.

BTW, what would you measure a plumb line against? The sun rays at
noon?

Why not? Takes more than a puny Annapurna to deflect light noticeably.

Mark L. Fergerson

What does all of this have to do with an idealized frictionless pendulum
formula which is copied and added to, to conform with Coriolis, damping,
and driving etc..

Cliff Nelson

Dry your tears, there's more fun for your ears,
"Forward Into The Past" 2 PM to 5 PM, Sundays,
California time, at: http://www.kspc.org/

Don't be a square or a blockhead; see:
http://users.adelphia.net/~cnelson9/

"If you don't believe, You're gonna receive, The shock of your royal
life."

"Clifford J. Nelson" wrote:

In article J7uXc.105743$Lj.95970@fed1read03,
Mark Fergerson wrote:

Jim wrote:

Uncle Al wrote:


"Clifford J. Nelson" wrote:

From Synergetics:

[snip]


From hunger.

Trees and buildings point away from the center of gravity of the earth,

Bull****. Bull**** because of Coriolis acceleration, bull****
because of local mass inhomogeneities. A plumb line is off plumb
on the Tibetan Plateau - all that crap is stacked into big tall
heaps.


How about a plumb line at the base of a rock like El Capitan.
How many cubic miles of earth are you standing next to?
Enough to make a noticeable difference?

Yes. Gravitometers are widely used by petroleum prospectors. Guess why.

BTW, what would you measure a plumb line against? The sun rays at
noon?

Why not? Takes more than a puny Annapurna to deflect light noticeably.

Mark L. Fergerson

What does all of this have to do with an idealized frictionless pendulum
formula which is copied and added to, to conform with Coriolis, damping,
and driving etc..

Specifically:

"Just a little, late night wondering. "

Jim

The stars effect the swing of a pendulum when swinging close to the
Earth's north pole. Mach theory being proved. Bert

(G=EMC^2 Glazier) wrote in message ...
The stars effect the swing of a pendulum when swinging close to the
Earth's north pole. Mach theory being proved. Bert

"Exact" pendulum measurements are impossible, due to the moon (sun,
planets etc) effecting a change of position within the earth to which
the pendulum is attrcted.

Jim G
c'=c+v

I've added a signature to my posts:

Dry your tears, there's more fun for your ears,
"Forward Into The Past" 2 PM to 5 PM, Sundays,
California time, at: http://www.kspc.org/ .

Don't be a square or a blockhead; see:
http://users.adelphia.net/~cnelson9/

Caveat:

For the past thirty years, every time I recommend something I love it
gets changed to something I hate, like magic. That happened again August
28 2004 with "Forward Into The Past" 2 PM to 5 PM, Sundays, California
time, at: http://www.kspc.org/ . I hated it, hated it, hated it. Tune in
next weak, maybe, to hear Randy Brian's show, the real thing.

For kids from one to ninety two: "Look out kid, they keep it all hid".
That goes for all records of all history, not just music.

Cliff Nelson


In article ,
"Clifford J. Nelson" wrote:

From Synergetics:

Section 117.00 ... always assuming that 100 percent of the behaviors
must be accounted for. We are always dealing with 100 percent finite.
Experiment after experiment has shown that if there was something like
.000172 left over that you could not account for, you cannot just
dismiss it as an error in accounting. There must be some little energy
rascal in there that weighs .000172. They finally gave it a name, the
"whatson." And then eventually they set about some way to trap it in
order to observe it. It is dealing with the whole that makes it possible
to discover the parts. ...


Section 986.046 Cubical forms of wood and stone with approximately flat
faces and corner angles seemed to the Euclidean-led Ionians to
correspond satisfactorily with what was apparently a flat plane world to
which trees and humanly erected solid wooden posts and stone columns
were obviously perpendicular__ergo, logically parallel to one another.
...
---

Trees and buildings point away from the center of gravity of the earth,
not perpendicular to a plane. The pull of gravity that makes a pendulum
swing is not perpendicular to a plane, so Einstein's thought experiment
or heuristic of an accelerating rocket ship is only a flatlander's
approximation, I guess.

Do the web sites and books that show a mathematical analysis of the
pendulum show it on a round, round world? I'm just a little curious.

I got a little more curious and the first diagram I found is at:

http://monet.physik.unibas.ch/~elmer/pendulum/eqm1.htm

where the vector G = mg looks parallel to the y axis. That's not quite
correct, right?

It seems to me that the angle parameter should be a little bigger and
depend on the distance to the center of gravity of the earth where the y
axis and vector G = mg meet.

Cliff Nelson

Dry your tears, there's more fun for your ears,
"Forward Into The Past" 2 PM to 5 PM, Sundays,
California time, at: http://www.kspc.org/

Don't be a square or a blockhead; see:
http://users.adelphia.net/~cnelson9/

"Clifford J. Nelson" wrote:

I've added a signature to my posts:

Dry your tears, there's more fun for your ears,
"Forward Into The Past" 2 PM to 5 PM, Sundays,
California time, at: http://www.kspc.org/ .

Don't be a square or a blockhead; see:
http://users.adelphia.net/~cnelson9/

Caveat:

For the past thirty years, every time I recommend something I love it
gets changed to something I hate, like magic. That happened again August
28 2004 with "Forward Into The Past" 2 PM to 5 PM, Sundays, California
time, at: http://www.kspc.org/ . I hated it, hated it, hated it. Tune in
next weak, maybe, to hear Randy Brian's show, the real thing.

For kids from one to ninety two: "Look out kid, they keep it all hid".
That goes for all records of all history, not just music.

Cliff Nelson

"What does all of this have to do with an idealized frictionless
pendulum formula which is copied and added to, to conform with
Coriolis, damping, and driving etc.." - Cliff Nelson

Couldn't resist.
Thanks for the link. Never tuned in on Sunday. I'll have to give it
a try.

Jim