Hi Guys,
I was just thinking about protium the other day and it occurred to me that
as it has only one proton and no neutron, there must be no W and Z
particles. This raised a couple of quick questions:
1) when Deuterium forms,where do the W and Z particles come from?
2) if they come from the proton and/or neutron, does the mass of these
particles change ie is the mass of the proton in protium greater than when
in any other atom?
3) where do the W and Z particles go when a neutron is stripped from
Deuterium?

If we compare the question on W and Z to another Boson, say the photon, the
answers are all reasonably straight forward - an electron emitting a photon
loses an amount of energy equal to that taken off by the photon. Upon
absorbing a photon, an electron gains energy. Thus the energy-mass of the
electron does change.

--
Kind Regards
Robert Karl Stonjek

"Sam Wormley" wrote in message
news:yK_Rj.89539$TT4.25219@attbi_s22...
Robert Karl Stonjek wrote:
Hi Guys,
I was just thinking about protium the other day and it occurred to me
that
as it has only one proton and no neutron, there must be no W and Z
particles. This raised a couple of quick questions:
1) when Deuterium forms,where do the W and Z particles come from?
2) if they come from the proton and/or neutron, does the mass of these
particles change ie is the mass of the proton in protium greater than
when
in any other atom?
3) where do the W and Z particles go when a neutron is stripped from
Deuterium?

If we compare the question on W and Z to another Boson, say the photon,
the
answers are all reasonably straight forward - an electron emitting a
photon
loses an amount of energy equal to that taken off by the photon. Upon
absorbing a photon, an electron gains energy. Thus the energy-mass of
the
electron does change.






Boson
http://scienceworld.wolfram.com/physics/Boson.html
http://particleadventure.org/particl...ess/chart.html

RKS:
I'm not quite clear on the point you are trying to make. W and Z are
bosons. I said they were bosons. Photons are bosons.

I'm assuming there is some simple answer to my simple questions.

Robert

On Apr 30, 7:57*am, "Robert Karl Stonjek"
wrote:
Hi Guys,
I was just thinking about protium the other day and it occurred to me that
as it has only one proton and no neutron, there must be no W and Z
particles. *This raised a couple of quick questions:
1) when Deuterium forms,where do the W and Z particles come from?
2) if they come from the proton and/or neutron, does the mass of these
particles change ie is the mass of the proton in protium greater than when
in any other atom?
3) where do the W and Z particles go when a neutron is stripped from
Deuterium?

If we compare the question on W and Z to another Boson, say the photon, the
answers are all reasonably straight forward - an electron emitting a photon
loses an amount of energy equal to that taken off by the photon. *Upon
absorbing a photon, an electron gains energy. *Thus the energy-mass of the
electron does change.

--
Kind Regards
Robert Karl Stonjek

The W and Z are gauge bosons for the weak interaction. How they fit
into your scenario is not very clear. Maybe you could reframe your
questions.

"Sam Wormley" wrote in message
news:Ic0Sj.143517$yE1.61202@attbi_s21...
Robert Karl Stonjek wrote:
"Sam Wormley" wrote in message
news:yK_Rj.89539$TT4.25219@attbi_s22...
Robert Karl Stonjek wrote:
Hi Guys,
I was just thinking about protium the other day and it occurred to me
that
as it has only one proton and no neutron, there must be no W and Z
particles. This raised a couple of quick questions:
1) when Deuterium forms,where do the W and Z particles come from?
2) if they come from the proton and/or neutron, does the mass of these
particles change ie is the mass of the proton in protium greater than
when
in any other atom?
3) where do the W and Z particles go when a neutron is stripped from
Deuterium?

If we compare the question on W and Z to another Boson, say the
photon,
the
answers are all reasonably straight forward - an electron emitting a
photon
loses an amount of energy equal to that taken off by the photon. Upon
absorbing a photon, an electron gains energy. Thus the energy-mass of
the
electron does change.





Boson
http://scienceworld.wolfram.com/physics/Boson.html
http://particleadventure.org/particl...ess/chart.html

RKS:
I'm not quite clear on the point you are trying to make. W and Z are
bosons. I said they were bosons. Photons are bosons.

I'm assuming there is some simple answer to my simple questions.

Robert



Your question, "where do the W and Z particles come from?"

http://cr4.globalspec.com/blogentry/...ons-and-Bosons

RKS:
I could not see anything relating to my question, just some probability
math.

Robert

"Igor" wrote in message
...
On Apr 30, 7:57 am, "Robert Karl Stonjek"
wrote:
Hi Guys,
I was just thinking about protium the other day and it occurred to me that
as it has only one proton and no neutron, there must be no W and Z
particles. This raised a couple of quick questions:
1) when Deuterium forms,where do the W and Z particles come from?
2) if they come from the proton and/or neutron, does the mass of these
particles change ie is the mass of the proton in protium greater than when
in any other atom?
3) where do the W and Z particles go when a neutron is stripped from
Deuterium?

If we compare the question on W and Z to another Boson, say the photon,
the
answers are all reasonably straight forward - an electron emitting a
photon
loses an amount of energy equal to that taken off by the photon. Upon
absorbing a photon, an electron gains energy. Thus the energy-mass of the
electron does change.

--
Kind Regards
Robert Karl Stonjek

The W and Z are gauge bosons for the weak interaction. How they fit
into your scenario is not very clear. Maybe you could reframe your
questions.

RKS:
I'm not clear on what is not clear.

Let's consider a photon exchange between two atoms;
1) there are two atoms and no photons. Let the atoms be identical (say,
hydrogen atoms) and their energy state also identical.
2a) the energy state of one atom falls and a photon is emitted.
2b) the photon has an energy equal to the amount of energy lost by the
emitting atom;
3) the absorbing atom's energy state increases by an amount equal to the
photon, the photon no longer exists.

Now lets consider the W and Z:
1) there are two nucleons and no W and Z particles;
2) the two nucleons come close enough for W and Z interaction;
3) ?
4) ?

A) What does, say, a proton lose upon emitting a W or Z particle?
B) What does, say, a proton gain upon absorbing a W or Z particle?
C) What does the W or Z particle transmit between nucleons?

Is it mass, energy, or mass-energy as in the case of the photon?
Does the emitting nucleon lose mass, energy or mass-energy as in the case of
the emitting atom with respect to photon exhange (energy state of electron
falls, for instance).

Perhaps the answer is so obvious or fundamental that you're missing it. I
must admit that it simply never occurred to me to ask before or note the
answer if reading up on the subject.

Thanks,
Robert

On May 1, 8:48*am, "Robert Karl Stonjek"
wrote:
"Igor" wrote in message

...
On Apr 30, 7:57 am, "Robert Karl Stonjek"
wrote:





Hi Guys,
I was just thinking about protium the other day and it occurred to me that
as it has only one proton and no neutron, there must be no W and Z
particles. This raised a couple of quick questions:
1) when Deuterium forms,where do the W and Z particles come from?
2) if they come from the proton and/or neutron, does the mass of these
particles change ie is the mass of the proton in protium greater than when
in any other atom?
3) where do the W and Z particles go when a neutron is stripped from
Deuterium?

If we compare the question on W and Z to another Boson, say the photon,
the
answers are all reasonably straight forward - an electron emitting a
photon
loses an amount of energy equal to that taken off by the photon. Upon
absorbing a photon, an electron gains energy. Thus the energy-mass of the
electron does change.

--
Kind Regards
Robert Karl Stonjek

The W and Z are gauge bosons for the weak interaction. *How they fit
into your scenario is not very clear. *Maybe you could reframe your
questions.

RKS:
I'm not clear on what is not clear.

Let's consider a photon exchange between two atoms;
1) there are two atoms and no photons. *Let the atoms be identical (say,
hydrogen atoms) and their energy state also identical.
2a) the energy state of one atom falls and a photon is emitted.
2b) the photon has an energy equal to the amount of energy lost by the
emitting atom;
3) the absorbing atom's energy state increases by an amount equal to the
photon, the photon no longer exists.

Now lets consider the W and Z:
1) there are two nucleons and no W and Z particles;
2) the two nucleons come close enough for W and Z interaction;
3) ?
4) ?

That's way too ambiguous. It's quarks and leptons that emit and
absorb W and Zs.

A) What does, say, a proton lose upon emitting a W or Z particle?

A proton is two up quarks and a down quark. An up may emit a W+ and
become a down. Or a down may emit a W- and become an up. And either
may emit a Z without changing identity at all. The Z is more or less
just a heavy photon.

B) What does, say, a proton gain upon absorbing a W or Z particle?

An up may absorb a W- and become a down. Or a down may absorb a W+
and become an up. Just as in emission, either may absorb a Z without
changing identity.


C) What does the W or Z particle transmit between nucleons?

The Ws and Z carry the weak interaction between quarks and leptons.

Is it mass, energy, or mass-energy as in the case of the photon?

The ohoton has no mass. But, due to E = mc^2, whenever energy is lost
or gained, mass is lost or gained also.

Does the emitting nucleon lose mass, energy or mass-energy as in the case of
the emitting atom with respect to photon exhange (energy state of electron
falls, for instance).


Anything losing energy will also lose mass.

"Igor" wrote in message
...
On May 1, 8:48 am, "Robert Karl Stonjek"
wrote:
"Igor" wrote in message

...
On Apr 30, 7:57 am, "Robert Karl Stonjek"
wrote:





Hi Guys,
I was just thinking about protium the other day and it occurred to me
that
as it has only one proton and no neutron, there must be no W and Z
particles. This raised a couple of quick questions:
1) when Deuterium forms,where do the W and Z particles come from?
2) if they come from the proton and/or neutron, does the mass of these
particles change ie is the mass of the proton in protium greater than
when
in any other atom?
3) where do the W and Z particles go when a neutron is stripped from
Deuterium?

If we compare the question on W and Z to another Boson, say the photon,
the
answers are all reasonably straight forward - an electron emitting a
photon
loses an amount of energy equal to that taken off by the photon. Upon
absorbing a photon, an electron gains energy. Thus the energy-mass of
the
electron does change.

--
Kind Regards
Robert Karl Stonjek

The W and Z are gauge bosons for the weak interaction. How they fit
into your scenario is not very clear. Maybe you could reframe your
questions.

RKS:
I'm not clear on what is not clear.

Let's consider a photon exchange between two atoms;
1) there are two atoms and no photons. Let the atoms be identical (say,
hydrogen atoms) and their energy state also identical.
2a) the energy state of one atom falls and a photon is emitted.
2b) the photon has an energy equal to the amount of energy lost by the
emitting atom;
3) the absorbing atom's energy state increases by an amount equal to the
photon, the photon no longer exists.

Now lets consider the W and Z:
1) there are two nucleons and no W and Z particles;
2) the two nucleons come close enough for W and Z interaction;
3) ?
4) ?

That's way too ambiguous. It's quarks and leptons that emit and
absorb W and Zs.

A) What does, say, a proton lose upon emitting a W or Z particle?

A proton is two up quarks and a down quark. An up may emit a W+ and
become a down. Or a down may emit a W- and become an up. And either
may emit a Z without changing identity at all. The Z is more or less
just a heavy photon.

B) What does, say, a proton gain upon absorbing a W or Z particle?

An up may absorb a W- and become a down. Or a down may absorb a W+
and become an up. Just as in emission, either may absorb a Z without
changing identity.


C) What does the W or Z particle transmit between nucleons?

The Ws and Z carry the weak interaction between quarks and leptons.

Is it mass, energy, or mass-energy as in the case of the photon?

The ohoton has no mass. But, due to E = mc^2, whenever energy is lost
or gained, mass is lost or gained also.

Does the emitting nucleon lose mass, energy or mass-energy as in the case
of
the emitting atom with respect to photon exhange (energy state of electron
falls, for instance).


Anything losing energy will also lose mass.

RKS:
OK, so the weak interaction is between quarks and the interacting quarks
change identity as a result of the weak interaction. One would have learn
some chromodynamics to understand it further than that.

And yes, the photon has no **REST** Mass

Robert

On May 1, 9:01*pm, Igor wrote:
On May 1, 8:48*am, "Robert Karl Stonjek"
wrote:





"Igor" wrote in message

...
On Apr 30, 7:57 am, "Robert Karl Stonjek"
wrote:

Hi Guys,
I was just thinking about protium the other day and it occurred to me that
as it has only one proton and no neutron, there must be no W and Z
particles. This raised a couple of quick questions:
1) when Deuterium forms,where do the W and Z particles come from?
2) if they come from the proton and/or neutron, does the mass of these
particles change ie is the mass of the proton in protium greater than when
in any other atom?
3) where do the W and Z particles go when a neutron is stripped from
Deuterium?

If we compare the question on W and Z to another Boson, say the photon,
the
answers are all reasonably straight forward - an electron emitting a
photon
loses an amount of energy equal to that taken off by the photon. Upon
absorbing a photon, an electron gains energy. Thus the energy-mass of the
electron does change.

--
Kind Regards
Robert Karl Stonjek

The W and Z are gauge bosons for the weak interaction. *How they fit
into your scenario is not very clear. *Maybe you could reframe your
questions.

RKS:
I'm not clear on what is not clear.

Let's consider a photon exchange between two atoms;
1) there are two atoms and no photons. *Let the atoms be identical (say,
hydrogen atoms) and their energy state also identical.
2a) the energy state of one atom falls and a photon is emitted.
2b) the photon has an energy equal to the amount of energy lost by the
emitting atom;
3) the absorbing atom's energy state increases by an amount equal to the
photon, the photon no longer exists.

Now lets consider the W and Z:
1) there are two nucleons and no W and Z particles;
2) the two nucleons come close enough for W and Z interaction;
3) ?
4) ?

That's way too ambiguous. *It's quarks and leptons that emit and
absorb W and Zs.

A) What does, say, a proton lose upon emitting a W or Z particle?

A proton is two up quarks and a down quark. *An up may emit a W+ and
become a down. *Or a down may emit a W- and become an up. *And either
may emit a Z without changing identity at all. *The Z is more or less
just a heavy photon.

B) What does, say, a proton gain upon absorbing a W or Z particle?

An up may absorb a W- and become a down. *Or a down may absorb a W+
and become an up. *Just as in emission, either may absorb a Z without
changing identity.

C) What does the W or Z particle transmit between nucleons?

The Ws and Z carry the weak interaction between quarks and leptons.

Is it mass, energy, or mass-energy as in the case of the photon?

The ohoton has no mass. *But, due to E = mc^2, whenever energy is lost
or gained, mass is lost or gained also.

Does the emitting nucleon lose mass, energy or mass-energy as in the case of
the emitting atom with respect to photon exhange (energy state of electron
falls, for instance).

Anything losing energy will also lose mass.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

--------------
'''anything loosing energy will also lose mass '''''???

hi idiot crook
dont you feel that you are an idiot crook ??
(btw if loosing energy is loosing mass as well then
energy does not contain mass ????)

the W or the Z are dozens of times heavier than the
proton or Neutron
can an idiot like you tel us how is it that
any physical entity id sending a messenger that is
100 times heavier thanitself ??

can you fart something that is 100 times heavier than you ??

i guess and i see YOU CAN !!
2
jus ttell the poeple where has ever a W or Z been found!!
why dont you tell them that secrete ??

3
just tell them how and where it is created
4
tell them what is the probaiility to fing a W or Z
in that process !!

and only then come to teach people here 'modern physics '!!
and may be you can teach some **intellectual integrity ** Eh ??

ATB
YPorat
-----------------------------

On May 2, 4:02*am, "Robert Karl Stonjek"
wrote:
"Igor" wrote in message

...
On May 1, 8:48 am, "Robert Karl Stonjek"
wrote:





"Igor" wrote in message

...
On Apr 30, 7:57 am, "Robert Karl Stonjek"
wrote:

Hi Guys,
I was just thinking about protium the other day and it occurred to me
that
as it has only one proton and no neutron, there must be no W and Z
particles. This raised a couple of quick questions:
1) when Deuterium forms,where do the W and Z particles come from?
2) if they come from the proton and/or neutron, does the mass of these
particles change ie is the mass of the proton in protium greater than
when
in any other atom?
3) where do the W and Z particles go when a neutron is stripped from
Deuterium?

If we compare the question on W and Z to another Boson, say the photon,
the
answers are all reasonably straight forward - an electron emitting a
photon
loses an amount of energy equal to that taken off by the photon. Upon
absorbing a photon, an electron gains energy. Thus the energy-mass of
the
electron does change.

--
Kind Regards
Robert Karl Stonjek

The W and Z are gauge bosons for the weak interaction. How they fit
into your scenario is not very clear. Maybe you could reframe your
questions.

RKS:
I'm not clear on what is not clear.

Let's consider a photon exchange between two atoms;
1) there are two atoms and no photons. Let the atoms be identical (say,
hydrogen atoms) and their energy state also identical.
2a) the energy state of one atom falls and a photon is emitted.
2b) the photon has an energy equal to the amount of energy lost by the
emitting atom;
3) the absorbing atom's energy state increases by an amount equal to the
photon, the photon no longer exists.

Now lets consider the W and Z:
1) there are two nucleons and no W and Z particles;
2) the two nucleons come close enough for W and Z interaction;
3) ?
4) ?

That's way too ambiguous. *It's quarks and leptons that emit and
absorb W and Zs.

A) What does, say, a proton lose upon emitting a W or Z particle?

A proton is two up quarks and a down quark. *An up may emit a W+ and
become a down. *Or a down may emit a W- and become an up. *And either
may emit a Z without changing identity at all. *The Z is more or less
just a heavy photon.

B) What does, say, a proton gain upon absorbing a W or Z particle?

An up may absorb a W- and become a down. *Or a down may absorb a W+
and become an up. *Just as in emission, either may absorb a Z without
changing identity.

C) What does the W or Z particle transmit between nucleons?

The Ws and Z carry the weak interaction between quarks and leptons.

Is it mass, energy, or mass-energy as in the case of the photon?

The ohoton has no mass. *But, due to E = mc^2, whenever energy is lost
or gained, mass is lost or gained also.



Does the emitting nucleon lose mass, energy or mass-energy as in the case
of
the emitting atom with respect to photon exhange (energy state of electron
falls, for instance).

Anything losing energy will also lose mass.

RKS:
OK, so the weak interaction is between quarks and the interacting quarks
change identity as a result of the weak interaction. *One would have learn
some chromodynamics to understand it further than that.

Not really. Quantum chromodynamics involves only the strong
interaction, unique to quarks. Weak involves W and Z exchanges which
occur equally in both quarks and leptons.

And yes, the photon has no **REST** Mass


That's one way to put it.

On May 2, 9:06*pm, Igor wrote:
On May 2, 4:02*am, "Robert Karl Stonjek"
wrote:





"Igor" wrote in message

...
On May 1, 8:48 am, "Robert Karl Stonjek"
wrote:

"Igor" wrote in message

....
On Apr 30, 7:57 am, "Robert Karl Stonjek"
wrote:

Hi Guys,
I was just thinking about protium the other day and it occurred to me
that
as it has only one proton and no neutron, there must be no W and Z
particles. This raised a couple of quick questions:
1) when Deuterium forms,where do the W and Z particles come from?
2) if they come from the proton and/or neutron, does the mass of these
particles change ie is the mass of the proton in protium greater than
when
in any other atom?
3) where do the W and Z particles go when a neutron is stripped from
Deuterium?

If we compare the question on W and Z to another Boson, say the photon,
the
answers are all reasonably straight forward - an electron emitting a
photon
loses an amount of energy equal to that taken off by the photon. Upon
absorbing a photon, an electron gains energy. Thus the energy-mass of
the
electron does change.

--
Kind Regards
Robert Karl Stonjek

The W and Z are gauge bosons for the weak interaction. How they fit
into your scenario is not very clear. Maybe you could reframe your
questions.

RKS:
I'm not clear on what is not clear.

Let's consider a photon exchange between two atoms;
1) there are two atoms and no photons. Let the atoms be identical (say,
hydrogen atoms) and their energy state also identical.
2a) the energy state of one atom falls and a photon is emitted.
2b) the photon has an energy equal to the amount of energy lost by the
emitting atom;
3) the absorbing atom's energy state increases by an amount equal to the
photon, the photon no longer exists.

Now lets consider the W and Z:
1) there are two nucleons and no W and Z particles;
2) the two nucleons come close enough for W and Z interaction;
3) ?
4) ?

That's way too ambiguous. *It's quarks and leptons that emit and
absorb W and Zs.

A) What does, say, a proton lose upon emitting a W or Z particle?

A proton is two up quarks and a down quark. *An up may emit a W+ and
become a down. *Or a down may emit a W- and become an up. *And either
may emit a Z without changing identity at all. *The Z is more or less
just a heavy photon.

B) What does, say, a proton gain upon absorbing a W or Z particle?

An up may absorb a W- and become a down. *Or a down may absorb a W+
and become an up. *Just as in emission, either may absorb a Z without
changing identity.

C) What does the W or Z particle transmit between nucleons?

The Ws and Z carry the weak interaction between quarks and leptons.

Is it mass, energy, or mass-energy as in the case of the photon?

The ohoton has no mass. *But, due to E = mc^2, whenever energy is lost
or gained, mass is lost or gained also.

Does the emitting nucleon lose mass, energy or mass-energy as in the case
of
the emitting atom with respect to photon exhange (energy state of electron
falls, for instance).

Anything losing energy will also lose mass.

RKS:
OK, so the weak interaction is between quarks and the interacting quarks
change identity as a result of the weak interaction. *One would have learn
some chromodynamics to understand it further than that.

Not really. *Quantum chromodynamics involves only the strong
interaction, unique to quarks. *Weak involves W and Z exchanges which
occur equally in both quarks and leptons.

And yes, the photon has no **REST** Mass

That's one way to put it.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

----------------------
1
there is just one kind of mass
you cancall it rest mass
you can call it 'shmest mass' or shmelativistic mass
anyway
no fiddling with different kindds of human ad hock fiddling with
masses ie masses 'at your requests '
2

about Z and W
i think tha Baba Yaga on a brook stick
could do much better than W and Z on a broomstick ....

ATB
Y.Porat
--------------------------------------