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Hi!
Can gravity be the elongated fields of photons? Figure 6-15 in the book "Electromagnetic Fields and Waves" by Paul Lorrain and Dale Corson shows how equipotential surfaces V=constant get elongated perpendicular to the direction of propagation of a moving point charge. At near light speed it seems that the elongation will be very long! Also see how field lines gather at 90 degrees from the direction of propagation: http://www.cco.caltech.edu/~phys1/ja...ingCharge.html It seems to me that a photon, that is in essence a moving EM field at the speed of light, should be elongated as well. The photons emitted perpendicular from a body should have the strongest field at your point of view. Also it seems that the elongation would elegantly explain how a single photon can interact on itself in the double slit experiment! Perhaps other clues to this are dyons, magnetic monopoles, dark energy, gravity experiments by ESA and Fran De Aquino? Comments welcomed! / Roger Persson |
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gubbenimanen wrote:
Hi! Can gravity be the elongated fields of photons? [snip crap] Comments welcomed! Virtual photons are spin-1 vector bosons. Gravitons would need be spin-2 tensor bosons. Idiot. -- Uncle Al http://www.mazepath.com/uncleal/ (Toxic URL! Unsafe for children and most mammals) http://www.mazepath.com/uncleal/lajos.htm#a2 |
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L@@K! A Google poster! With a yahoo email address!
Gravity is the perpendicular product of a photon emission and a positron field, with time coordinates replaced with space coordinates, taking the integral from 0 to the next electron shell quanta, divided by the action of the nearest non-charged large hard-on excellerator, in your shorts, spewing fetid garbage to the wrong newsgroup for no reason, like a high voltage epileptic chain-saw rammed up your back-side with 240V. "gubbenimanen" wrote in message ... Hi! |
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gubbenimanen wrote:
Hi! Can gravity be the elongated fields of photons? No. If gravitation is mediated by a boson it is a boson of spin 2. Bob Kolker |
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gubbenimanen wrote:
Hi! Can gravity be the elongated fields of photons? No. This is ruled out experimentally. The simplest tests are precision tests of the equivalence principle. Photons, pretty much by definition, couple only to charged matter -- photons are quanta of electromagnetic radiation, and electric charge is what electromagnetism couples to. But we observe, to accuracies of better than a part in a billion, that gravity couples to nuclear and electrostatic binding energy, which carry no electric charge. We also observe that gravity interacts with light -- the Sun deflects light, for instance -- while photons do not interact with each other. More generally, we observe that gravity couples universally to all forms of energy. This is tested experimentally for nuclear binding energy, electrostatic and magnetostatic energy, the energy of weak nuclear interactions, the kinetic energy of electrons in atoms, and even gravitational binding energy. It can be shown that this requires that gravity must be described by a certain type of tensorial field ("spin 2"), while, as others have pointed out, photons are (again, observably) spin 1. The spin 2 nature of the gravitational interaction is further tested by the behavior of binary neutron stars. Spin 2 fields couple to quadrupole moments, while spin 1 fields couple to dipole moments, which are typically much larger. If gravity coupled to a binary pulsar dipole moment, the system would emit gravitational radiation much faster than we observe. Observations of the orbital decay of binary pulsars instead very closely match the predictions of a spin 2 coupling. You might want to read Cliff Will's popular book _Was Einstein Right?_ for a nice introduction. If you want something more technical, try http://relativity.livingreviews.org/...6-3/index.html. Steve Carlip |
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There's perhaps 1e100 photons/atom, and on average there's perhaps
less than 0.1 atom/m3 of our all-inclusive universe. Go figure. .. - Brad Guth gubbenimanen wrote: Hi! Can gravity be the elongated fields of photons? Figure 6-15 in the book "Electromagnetic Fields and Waves" by Paul Lorrain and Dale Corson shows how equipotential surfaces V=constant get elongated perpendicular to the direction of propagation of a moving point charge. At near light speed it seems that the elongation will be very long! Also see how field lines gather at 90 degrees from the direction of propagation: http://www.cco.caltech.edu/~phys1/ja...ingCharge.html It seems to me that a photon, that is in essence a moving EM field at the speed of light, should be elongated as well. The photons emitted perpendicular from a body should have the strongest field at your point of view. Also it seems that the elongation would elegantly explain how a single photon can interact on itself in the double slit experiment! Perhaps other clues to this are dyons, magnetic monopoles, dark energy, gravity experiments by ESA and Fran De Aquino? Comments welcomed! / Roger Persson |
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On Apr 21, 11:55 am, wrote:
gubbenimanen wrote: Hi! Can gravity be the elongated fields of photons? No. This is ruled out experimentally. The simplest tests are precision tests of the equivalence principle. Photons, pretty much by definition, couple only to charged matter -- photons are quanta of electromagnetic radiation, and electric charge is what electromagnetism couples to. But we observe, to accuracies of better than a part in a billion, that gravity couples to nuclear and electrostatic binding energy, which carry no electric charge. We also observe that gravity interacts with light -- the Sun deflects light, for instance -- while photons do not interact with each other. More generally, we observe that gravity couples universally to all forms of energy. This is tested experimentally for nuclear binding energy, electrostatic and magnetostatic energy, the energy of weak nuclear interactions, the kinetic energy of electrons in atoms, and even gravitational binding energy. It can be shown that this requires that gravity must be described by a certain type of tensorial field ("spin 2"), while, as others have pointed out, photons are (again, observably) spin 1. The spin 2 nature of the gravitational interaction is further tested by the behavior of binary neutron stars. Spin 2 fields couple to quadrupole moments, while spin 1 fields couple to dipole moments, which are typically much larger. If gravity coupled to a binary pulsar dipole moment, the system would emit gravitational radiation much faster than we observe. Observations of the orbital decay of binary pulsars instead very closely match the predictions of a spin 2 coupling. You might want to read Cliff Will's popular book _Was Einstein Right?_ for a nice introduction. If you want something more technical, tryhttp://relativity.livingreviews.org/Articles/lrr-2006-3/index.html. Steve Carlip How much mass can a zero-mass spin-1 photon haul? .. - Brad Guth |
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On 20 avr, 19:26, gubbenimanen wrote:
Hi! Can gravity be the elongated fields of photons? Figure 6-15 in the book "Electromagnetic Fields and Waves" by Paul Lorrain and Dale Corson shows how equipotential surfaces V=constant get elongated perpendicular to the direction of propagation of a moving point charge. At near light speed it seems that the elongation will be very long! Also see how field lines gather at 90 degrees from the direction of propagation:http://www.cco.caltech.edu/~phys1/ja...ge/MovingCharg... It seems to me that a photon, that is in essence a moving EM field at the speed of light, should be elongated as well. The photons emitted perpendicular from a body should have the strongest field at your point of view. Also it seems that the elongation would elegantly explain how a single photon can interact on itself in the double slit experiment! Perhaps other clues to this are dyons, magnetic monopoles, dark energy, gravity experiments by ESA and Fran De Aquino? Comments welcomed! / Roger Persson TRANSLATOR IS WELCOME !!! (Tout le fil m'intéresse : si un bénévoile québéquois voulait bien participer à ce tournant vers la révolution scientifique) ========================== The value of the constant is Kdevia = 2,17004 10-6 (m 3 s -1 J -1) The constant is multiplied by 1367 W m-2 And you find the value of the deviation (m s-2) Soit 1367 * 2,17004 10-6 = Et l'on trouve 0.002966448 m s -2 Ce résultat indique que la trajectoire de la Terre est déviée de 2.97 millimètres par seconde The constant Kdevia is proved by every planet (It is the same than GMso / R²) The second step is to find how many photons came from the Earth to the Moon, to prove that Kdevia is also good for the satellite. ===================================== CONSTANTE DE DÉVIATION HÉLIOPLANÉTAIRE La constante de déviation gravitationnelle hélioplanétaire est égale à Kdevia = 2,17004 10-6 m 3 s -1 J -1 Sa signification : Toute planète recevant une énergie locale, Eloc, en provenance du Soleil, aura sa trajectoire déviée d'une quantité égale à : Eloc * Kdevia Eloc en J s -1 m -2 Eloc calculée sur un plan perpendiculaire à la direction des photons depuis le Soleil jusqu'à la planète ====================================== http://site.voila.fr/monsyte/de/SCIE...an etaire.htm A text of the site of “the New Spark”: THE TRUE EQUATION OF GRAVITATION HÉLIO-PLANÉTAIRE By Yanick Toutain 08/05/07 17:15 - 09/05/07 01:350 2 errata 6/07/07 18:35 Tuesday May 8, 2007 PREAMBLE: Isaac Newton had insisted well: “Assumptions not fingo”, I do not pretend of assumptions. He had taken care well not to give a cause to the gravitation Photogravure = sun Hélioplanétaire = which relates to the Sun and the planets, which relates to the relations between the Sun and planets “I explained the phenomena of the skies and our seas by the force of gravity, but I did not allot yet of cause to gravity. [...] I did not succeed in yet deducing [...] the reasons explaining the properties from gravity, and I do not pretend of assumptions. Because all that does not result from the phenomena calls necessarily an assumption; and the assumptions, which they are metaphysics, physical, founded on qualities occulted, or mechanical, do not have their place in experimental philosophy. 32 Gleick quotation However, the two gaps, the two theses which miss with the conceptual grid, it had already advanced them: the light as a photon and the photon as a brick. THE LIGHT AS A PHOTON Contrary to the rumours distilled by the relativists, for Isaac Newton the assumption of the light comparable with the sound, the assumption of a wave in an improbable ether, had quickly become a nonsense. It was completely convinced that the light was made of “very small bodies emitted by brilliant substances”. THE PHOTON AS A BRICK But, this reflexion had not remained with this stage. Isaac Newton had also formulated the assumption according to which the atomos, the building block of the matter could be the grains of light themselves: “Aren't the coarse bodies and the light mutually convertible, and the bodies cannot receive a great part of their activity of the particles of light which use their composition?” Opticks 374 Quotation of J. Gleick p. 190 GAPS OF THE PRINCIPIA It is extremely probable that Newton, victim of the hatred of the antimaterialists - the heinous Leibniz robber at the head - wanted to be limited to what could not be called in question: One sees, still with the 21 ° century, clicks it cretins to tolerate, their pars, the worst stupid things: invisible and unknown dark matter, “holes” that they are black or “of worm”, dimension exceeding 4 known dimensions, worlds parallel… and to howl with sorcery each time somebody Formula One an assumption of good sense which comes to shock their monnayées beliefs. It thus misses the time of the signal and the fact that gravity is a phenomenon of photons with photons THE TIME OF THE SIGNAL It is the alive one of Newton that the first approximations speed of light were announced by Römer. 1665 precede 22 years the publication of the mathematical Principles of natural philosophy. It is astonishing that Newton included/understood only the aphelion, the “maximum distance” to which we see the Sun, at the beginning of July is not a distance, but only the length of the way traversed by the light to reach us. Admittedly, Newton regarded the Sun as motionless in absolute space, but what could be negligible for the bond Sun Ground it is not any more for the way in which we see Mars. Isaac Newton was 22 years old. Römer announced 240.000 kilometers a second. 80% the true speed. Indeed, when we see Mars with such or such place, it is obvious for all the children of the 21° century that Mars is not any more at this place. As the image of Mars that we see travelled during a time of several hundreds of seconds, at the moment when this image arrives in our eyes or in the objective of the camera, the planet Mars is on the right or on the left place where see we it. That, Newton would have been able to include/understand it and take it into account in its analyses (when well even it would have persisted in regarding the Sun as motionless) It seems probable to me that in the files of Newton pages must be where this assumption could be with the state of draft. With the children of the 21° century: Will know that the TOTALITY of the graduate cretins (engineers professors etc.) expressing itself in fr.sci.physic or fr.sci.astrophysic still did not include/understand that in May 2007. GRAVITY OF PHOTONS with PHOTONS The comprehension of what the matter is made of bricks photons has a consequence quite as fundamental as the preceding one: It can nothing exist of other than the photons. Consequently of what, the light is the active ingredient of the gravitation; and this active ingredient is exerted on bodies which are nothing other than agglomerated photons. The gravitation is thus only the consequence of the shock of the photons (in form light, isolated) on other photons (agglomerated, in form matter). The gravitation is thus, simply the modification of the trajectory of formed bodies of agglomerated photons, run up against by “isolated photons”. They are these modifications of trajectories which appear either in the form “attraction” or in the form “repulsion” OBJECTIVE OF THIS TEXT The object, limited, from this text goes to consist to transform the equations of Kepler and Newton concerning the gravitation and the movements of planets to give them a form materialist compatible with the two preceding additions to the theses of Isaac Newton. It is not need to add only all the other theses - under the reserve to take into account what precedes - are considered veracious, to start with the concepts absolute space, absolute time, absolute place, absolute movement and absolute velocities. The only modification will consist in replacing the absolute word by the objective word which clarifies the concepts more. *** CONSTANT OF DEVIATION HÉLIOPLANÉTAIRE The constant of gravitational deviation hélioplanétaire is equal to Kdevia = 2,17004 10-6 m3 S -1 J -1 Its significance: Any planet receiving a local energy, Eloc, coming from the Sun, will have its deviated trajectory of a quantity equalizes with: Eloc * Kdevia Eloc in J S -1 m -2 Eloc calculated on a level perpendicular to the direction of the photons since the Sun to planet This quantity has dimensions of an acceleration (meters per seconds ²) but corresponds simply to the quantity of deviation (in direction of the Sun) of the trajectory of planet. m S -2 Its use is strictly identical to that of Isaac Newton concerning gravitational acceleration. The Flight Path Vector is decreased by a quantity equal to Eloc*Kdevia*unitédetemps For a Eloc value = 1367 It is enough to multiply 1367 by Kdevia That is to say 1367 * 2,17004 10-6 = And 0.002966448 are found This result indicates that the trajectory of the Earth is deviated of 2.97 millimetres a second J S -1 m -2 m S -2 Naturally, when, at the beginning of July, the Earth in front of the Sun, is at the point of aphelion, the received energy of the Sun is weaker: only 1321.67 joules per m ² a second. And thus, the deviation is weaker: only 0.0028681 The deviation is of 2.86 millimetres a second. Whereas, 6 months later, on January 2, at the point of perihelion, the Earth - behind the Sun - receives 1413.086 joules (7% of energy in more). And thus its deviation will be more important: 3.066 millimetres a second. The deviation of January is 7% more important than the deviation of July. INTERPRETATION MATERIALIST The direction of this equation is very simple: The shock of the photons of the Sun deviates the trajectory of planets. The quantity of deviation depends on received energy: The light coming from the Sun corresponds to the equation of Planck called equation of the black body. This equation indicates the distribution of the various kinds of photons which reach us coming from the Sun. In 1 joule coming from the Sun, there are yellow photons - an integer of yellow photons -, there are green photons, red photons, the purple ones, but also of the infra-red photons, ultraviolet photons. These photons arrive to the Earth, to Mars or Jupiter, each planet of the solar system. And their arrival on each planet starts billion shocks. These are the shocks which deviate the trajectories of planets. Anything else! LAW IN R ² AND the SURFACE Of a SPHERE This multiplicative law of a constant is, obviously compatible with the law of Isaac Newton (resulting from Kepler) The value of Kdevia is even calculated according to the equations of Newton Kdevia = (local acceleration/Eloc) /2 Local acceleration = G Mso/R ² And thus Kdevia = G Mso/(R ² * 2Eloc) Mso masses Sun G gravitational constant However Eloc = Etot/(4 pi * R ²) From where Kdevia = G Mso/(R ² * 2Etot/(4 pi * R ²)) Kdevia = G Mso/(Etot /2 pi) That indicates that the law in R ² mask in fact a constant: Kdevia Kdevia constant whose value depends on the photonic emission of the Sun, the mass allotted to the Sun and constant G, gravitational constant. Etot total Energy emitted by the Sun a second It should be noted that at the origin, the first report which made the author was that of the root fourth of energy. The equation of Kepler improved by Newton gave Period ²/R3 = 4 pi ²/G Mso This equation had another possible writing: Period ²/R = 4 pi ² R ²/G Mso G Mso/R = 4 pi ² R ²/period ² G Mso/R = (2 pi R/period) ² GMso/R= (Speed of revolution of planet) ² But this equation could change again: Eloc = Etot/(4 pi * R ²) And thus 1/R = square root (Eloc*4 pi/Etot) And thus then: (Speed of revolution of planet) ² = Gmso*racine square (Eloc*4 pi/ Etot) There was then the speed of revolution of the planet (average over one year) which was proportional to the fourth root of received Energy (“constant” solar) Speed of revolution of planet = Eloc (1/4) * G Mso * 2 * square root (pi/Etot) Erratum (6/7/07) “proportional” to the place of “equal”: the attentive reader of the equation will have rectified itself. This equation (cumulative over one year) hid, in fact, the Kdevia equation. A materialist thus regards the laws in R ² as the result of a spherical influence, like the results of shocks coming from a central source spreading itself in space on a spherical form. The R ² was simply the ray of the sphere PARTICULARIZATION OF THE EQUATION This law, valid for planets and their trajectory does not function - in this simple form - for the gravity of the objects attracted by planets. The Moon should receive 627 joules (M-1 s-1) coming from the Earth And the objects held and released on Earth should receive 2260 kw to justify acceleration of 9.81 m a second ². What is - first access - absurdity. WHO SEEKS WILL FIND The author does not wait to have improved this equation: who will want, will seek it to find the total solution. By Yanick Toutain Tuesday May 8, 2007 At the date of the 6/7/07, the author still does not have the generalized formula. July 26, 2007 the Last bounces: Newton had considered such an assumption! To see: Newton and wind of the mills NOTES AND COMMENTS “But was one to interpret the light like a wave or a whole of particles? He still thought, as assumption, that the light was a flow of material particles, but did not explore of them less the apparently undulatory phenomena: ” Aren't the luminous rays driven sometimes like an eel? “Buried Hooke, Newton also buried ether - this medium likely to vibrate under the action of light waves, following the example one being which transmits waves when a stone there is thrown. Such an ether would interfere with the permanent movement of planets - established so perfectly from now on. He trusted his corpuscular theory: the rays of light are “very small bodies emitted by brilliant substances”. 23 Ainsi, it seemed to take the wrong way (...) Note 23 Optiks, Question 29, p. 370 " Quotation of James Gleick Isaac Newton A fabulous destiny 2003-2005 Dunod p. 167-168 The preface writer is a malicious and heinous nutcase. This biography of “a relativist is rather honest for a a little limited partisan of orthodoxy Surface of a sphe 4 pi R ² ++++++ 1367: the relativistic cretins is obstinated to call this number “solar constant”. (And that since 1837 and the introduction of this concept per Claude Pouillet) Their idiocy is double: 1° This number changes at each second. As soon as the way to traverse Sun to the Earth increases, a larger number of photons “magnifying glass” the Earth and thus the solar “constant” falls 2° But their incommensurable silly thing seems - also - to ignore the second phenomenon (described by Cotardière) “(...) taken measurements (...) revealed a decrease of the “solar constant” of 0.019%, perhaps bound per annum to the one of the cycles of the solar activity.” +++++++++++++ This text has been the subject of several drafts on books for several years. And is, naturally the continuation of the equation “fourth root” published in 2002. The two reasons justifying its failure to be published on monsyte since October 2006 are 1° the complete absence of interlocutor materialist on the forums fr.sci, accepting simply the concept of vacuum (the preceding publication of the function describing the fourth root of energy had started only comments imbeciles and deprived of some interest that it is 2° the fact that this equation is incomplete and describes neither the modifications of trajectories of the satellites, nor the gravitation near the ground of a planet. The reason which has just started its publication in this beginning May 2007 is simply a pleasant text of Mr Xaustein. This Sir, within the framework of a debate, in Spanish, with another contributor, had extremely pleasant remarks relating to me - slicing with the malicious silly thing of usual Armingaud, Caudron, Lauwaert and other asses relativistic, being unaware of the simplest beginning of the bible which they assert and passing their leisures (important) to fill the forums fr.sci.physic with heinous diatribes whose only and single interest consists of the nearest construction of the million young not graduates, who will come soon to draw - there - absolute confidence in their intelligence confronted with the display afflicting with the silly thing fouls of the qualified engineers, of the students of normal sup., of the professors of physics and of mathematics teaching as well in college as in university and which poured kilometers of stupidities that a 8 year old child of 2020 will look with an amused eye, surprised and vaguely scandalized. These remarks related to my certainty of the photons as a single cause of gravity. Rather than to incite Mr. Xaustein to simply go to read again the text “Blind men who we are” and to satisfy to me to indicate a bond allowing a reading translated (AltaVista-Systran-babelfish) into Spanish, with his intention, like with that of its interlocutor, I judged good to make appear this incomplete equation. That could be the occasion of a collaboration if a reader free or Spanish-speaking would like to harness himself with the generalization of the equation (or rather with its “particularization” in the case of a gaseous medium and in the case of a multiple gravitation - what is the case of the satellites, undergoing the Sun and their planet). Appendix Data used Rsote 149562419000 It is not the astronomical unit (it is the ray on the assumption Ain Al Rami) Laphélie 152105142000 length of the way of the photons to the aphelion (it is not a distance between 2 bodies) Lpérihélie 147103311000 length of the way of the photons to the perihelion (it is not a distance between 2 bodies) ElocTerre 1367 (J (m ², S) GMso 1,327124380E+20 “constant heliocentric of the gravitation” (m^3/s ²) Calculations SushT =surface sphere photogravure Terre=4*pi*Rsote ² 2,81096E+23 (m ²) Etot = ElocTerre*SushT 3,84258E+26 J/S solar acT=acceleration undergone by the Earth 0,005932895 m/s ² deviation a second ² = acT/2 0,002966448 m/s ² and thus Kdevia = deviation a second/Eloc 2,17004E-06 Elocaph Eloc with the aphelion = Etot/(4 pi *Laphélie ²) 1321,678071 Elocpérih Eloc with the perihelion = Etot/(4 pi *Lpérihélie ²) 1413,085956 deviation by dryness with the aphelion = Kdevia * Elocaph 0,002868097 deviation by dryness with the aphelion = Kdevia * Elocaph 0,003066456 One checks: (Gmso/Laphélie ²)/2 0,002868097 One checks: (Gmso/Lapérihélie ²)/2 0,003066456 |
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#9
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On Apr 20, 9:26*am, gubbenimanen wrote:
Hi! Can gravity be the elongated fields of photons? Figure 6-15 in the book "Electromagnetic Fields and Waves" by Paul Lorrain and Dale Corson shows how equipotential surfaces V=constant get elongated perpendicular to the direction of propagation of a moving point charge. At near light speed it seems that the elongation will be very long! Also see how field lines gather at 90 degrees from the direction of propagation:http://www.cco.caltech.edu/~phys1/ja...ge/MovingCharg... It seems to me that a photon, that is in essence a moving EM field at the speed of light, should be elongated as well. The photons emitted perpendicular from a body should have the strongest field at your point of view. Also it seems that the elongation would elegantly explain how a single photon can interact on itself in the double slit experiment! Perhaps other clues to this are dyons, magnetic monopoles, dark energy, gravity experiments by ESA and Fran De Aquino? Comments welcomed! / Roger Persson Falling light changes colours. Light falls in chnaging time and this changes its energy. It goes up when falling in by blueshift and is red shfited when going out of the field. :Pound Rebka. Not to forget the Einstein shift. There is a doubled cause of redshift. Mitch Raemsch Twice Nobel Laureate 2008 Mitch Raemsch |
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#10
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Thanks everybody for your comments!
You said graviton is a spin 2 boson! Is it possible that paired entangled photons can work as a graviton by quantum superposition? I have read that a spin flip of an electron from -1/2 to 1/2 spawns a photon with spin +1. So what if two entangled photons (spin -1 and +1) interact together as a graviton (spin 2)? We know from photon teleportation that the other photon gets opposite spin and that they can interact at large distances. The elongated EM field at light speed through a double slit, I wrote about previously, seems to coincide with the pilot wave theory ( David Bohm and Louis de Broglie)! If two electrons moving at high speed towards each other what can we expect the fields interact with each other? Fields having opposite rotation creating some cork-screw interaction? Your answers appreciated! |
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