I read the current February Scientific American issue which
focuses on the Large Hadron Collider and the coming physics.
It mentions the so called Hierarchy Problem. I encountered this
concept before in Randall's Warped Passages & others but
didn't totally understood them. I thought it was simply
about why gravity is very weak compared to the electroweak
or unification scale... and I thought before so what they
are just like that. but the article and succeeding researches in
the net say there is a technical explanation and it is about
the Higgs. Theoretical justification says that the Higgs boson
which satisfy the electroweak theory should have almost planck
mass but in reality it is much lower.

For those who don't understand what is the Hierarchy Problem.
This is how I understand it. Say Jerry who is poor african guy has
total money or asset of $50. Bill Gates has asset worth $100 billion.
In
the odd quantum world. Virtual particles can do parlor tricks. So
it's like asking how come Jerry is not as rich as Bill Gates.
In quantum terms esp HUP. If the time is small enough, there
is uncertainty in energy which could be any amount. So poor
Jerry could have $100 billion within a certain time allowed
by the uncertainty. This means Jerry has potential $100 billion
but how come he doesn't actually have it.

Well. The above is not a very accurate analogy. Let's go
directly to the point. The Higgs can theoretically have virtual
particles that can reach the planck mass or energy. So
theoretical justification says the Higgs boson should be almost
in the planck mass range because of quantum contributions
or corrections (involving virtual particles). But in reality it is
only in
the electroweak mass scale (1 TeV compared to the planck
mass 10 ^ 16 T).

So the most puzzling problem in physics now is how come
poor Jerry or almost any person on earth is not as rich
as Bill Gates? Or why the Higgs doesn't have planck mass..

BTW.. I also read that chiral symmetry protect the masses
of the bosons and fermions such as quarks and electrons
from undergoing the same problem as the Higgs which
can by theory reach planck mass scale but not.
Something about the actual masses proportional to the
intrinsic masses (bare masses without quantum contributions).
Can anyone explain what this means? Does it have something
to do with the fact that the quarks and electrons before
symmetry breaking don't have masses that's why they
are said to be "protected" or is it a QED stunt and if so,
What's the detail why chiral symmetry protect the masses of the
bosons and fermions from undergoing quantum corrections
that could pull their masses to the planck scale?

Well. Presently they have some solutions to solve the Hierarchy
Problem. One is Supersymmetry in which our fermions and
bosons have superpartners. This means the higgs planck
mass of say a photon is cancelled by the corresponding
higgs planck mass of say the sphoton but this is not
convincing because they are not detected as is, meaning
they don't exactly correspond to the standard model masses.
Also Supersymmetry can introduce 120 more constants of
nature add hocly added in addition to the 20 Standard Model
variables.

The second solution to solve the hierarchy problems involved
hidden dimensions. I went back to Randall book and finally
understood what she was implying. It is that the electroweak
masses are sequestered in a brane while the planck masses
are sequestered in another brane. This means their
quantum side is isolated from each other so the higgs can
only reach the maximum of the electroweak mass scale
or about 1 TeV rather than 10 ^16T. This is cool explanation
and I wonder how many agree to this. Randall also mentions
how infinite extra dimensions could exist and the
Kaluza Klein signatures or particles being so light
that they can't be detected (because of the theory that
small dimensions can produce massive KK particles
while large dimensions can produce lighter KK particles).

Third solution is the so called "light higgs" stuff which
doesn't allow higher dimensions. Do you agree with it?

Fourth solution is that the concept of virtual particles have
flaws or not thouroughly understood although this is
unlikely because of the amazing success of QED and
QFT which can prove in analogy that a poor south
african farmer named Jerry can have a virtual Jerry that
is as rich as Bill Gates. This is the amazing world of
QED where things are more bizarre than sci-fi. Where
quantum corrections and virtual particles can play
parlor tricks that can make newtonians crazy.

The Hierarchy Problem is the mother of physics problem in
which convensional physicists focus. I wonder how come
the kooks here don't discuss this. This is much more
interesting than any of their materials. Come on. Let's
focus on the Hierarchy Problem as it is what really
matter.

Zilla

http://www.sciam.com/article.cfm?id=...rticle-physics

Btw... the articles about the Large Hadron Collider and coming
revolutions
in particle physics in Sci-Am mag are shared free in their site (full
articles).

The Hierarchy Problem and its solution is the top reason the LHC
was built in the first place. And it is not just scaling the energy
up,
it promises to discover new structures such as perhaps Santa Claus
being precipitated by the LHC or more exotic dimensional branes.

I think the Hierarchy Problem can have analogy this way. In a
boxing ring, it takes 10 rounds of time for the boxers to punch
themselves around. Let's say the boxing ring is the interaction
region or vertex of QED. In physics, what happens is that in
1 sec or less, all the punches in the 10 rounds happen at
once. This is the magic of QED & QM. Now the Hierarchy Problem
is the mystery how come a Muhammed Ali punch like an infant.
That is, the Higgs can decay into top quark-anti-top quark pairs
and because there are many paths, it can reach planck mass.
But in reality the higgs mass to satisfy the electroweak theory
is only very small. Why? Who knows, the LHC may discover
sequestering branes that protect the higgs from reaching the
planck mass.

It is surely interesting times ahead come July when the LHC
becomes operational.

I'm still perplexed why chiral symmetry can protect the masses
of the fermions and bosons from the higgs hierarchy problem.
Anyone kind enough to share?

Zilla

On Feb 10, 7:02*am, Zilla wrote:
http://www.sciam.com/article.cfm?id=...ons-in-particl...

Btw... the articles about the Large Hadron Collider and coming
revolutions
in particle physics in Sci-Am mag are shared free in their site (full
articles).

The Hierarchy Problem and its solution is the top reason the LHC
was built in the first place. And it is not just scaling the energy
up,
it promises to discover new structures such as perhaps Santa Claus
being precipitated by the LHC or more exotic dimensional branes.

I think the Hierarchy Problem can have analogy this way. In a
boxing ring, it takes 10 rounds of time for the boxers to punch
themselves around. Let's say the boxing ring is the interaction
region or vertex of QED. In physics, what happens is that in
1 sec or less, all the punches in the 10 rounds happen at
once. This is the magic of QED & QM. Now the Hierarchy Problem
is the mystery how come a Muhammed Ali punch like an infant.
That is, the Higgs can decay into top quark-anti-top quark pairs
and because there are many paths, it can reach planck mass.
But in reality the higgs mass to satisfy the electroweak theory
is only very small. Why? *Who knows, the LHC may discover
sequestering branes that protect the higgs from reaching the
planck mass.

It is surely interesting times ahead come July when the LHC
becomes operational.

I'm still perplexed why chiral symmetry can protect the masses
of the fermions and bosons from the higgs hierarchy problem.
Anyone kind enough to share?

Zilla

---------------------
1
i thought that QM solved everthing !!.......


2
have you heared about the idea of

'The chain of orbitals ' ???

(3)
you quoted so many parroting nonsense
that beed a special prize from the Land of nonasense
anyway it sowes clear as sun on midday
that no one undwerstands a **** about what is realygoing on there
and it i squite clear to me that even the largest LHC
will not make it clearer
if there will be no some change in basic paradigms
like
'no mass in physics '

because old catto saied :
'No mass --no real physics '

ATB
Y.Porat
------------------------------------------

On Feb 12, 1:19*am, "Y.Porat" wrote:
On Feb 10, 7:02*am, Zilla wrote:





http://www.sciam.com/article.cfm?id=...ons-in-particl....

Btw... the articles about the Large Hadron Collider and coming
revolutions
in particle physics in Sci-Am mag are shared free in their site (full
articles).

The Hierarchy Problem and its solution is the top reason the LHC
was built in the first place. And it is not just scaling the energy
up,
it promises to discover new structures such as perhaps Santa Claus
being precipitated by the LHC or more exotic dimensional branes.

I think the Hierarchy Problem can have analogy this way. In a
boxing ring, it takes 10 rounds of time for the boxers to punch
themselves around. Let's say the boxing ring is the interaction
region or vertex of QED. In physics, what happens is that in
1 sec or less, all the punches in the 10 rounds happen at
once. This is the magic of QED & QM. Now the Hierarchy Problem
is the mystery how come a Muhammed Ali punch like an infant.
That is, the Higgs can decay into top quark-anti-top quark pairs
and because there are many paths, it can reach planck mass.
But in reality the higgs mass to satisfy the electroweak theory
is only very small. Why? *Who knows, the LHC may discover
sequestering branes that protect the higgs from reaching the
planck mass.

It is surely interesting times ahead come July when the LHC
becomes operational.

I'm still perplexed why chiral symmetry can protect the masses
of the fermions and bosons from the higgs hierarchy problem.
Anyone kind enough to share?

Zilla

---------------------
1
i thought that QM solved everthing !!.......

2
have you heared about the idea of

'The chain of orbitals ' * *???

(3)
you quoted so many parroting nonsense
that beed a special prize from the Land of *nonasense
anyway it sowes clear as sun on midday
that no one undwerstands a **** about what is *realygoing on there
and it i squite clear to me that even the largest LHC
will not make it clearer
if there will be no some change in basic paradigms
like
'no mass in physics '

because old catto saied :
'No mass --no real physics '

ATB
Y.Porat
------------------------------------------- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

What nonsense? It's just the tip of the iceberg.
Physics middle name is strange and weird...
btw... if you want to know too how chiral
symmetry can protect the masses of the fermions
and bosons from the higgs hierarchy problem.
The answers are he

http://www.itep.ru/ws/2003/procs/Froggatt.pdf

see the chapter "Fermion masses and mass protection".

Also in here

http://courses.washington.edu/phys55...20558_lec2.htm

specifically:

"As we discussed last quarter, both vector particles and
spin ½ particles naturally display symmetries that can
ensure that they remain massless. In the former case
it is a gauge symmetry that plays this role. As long
as the gauge symmetry remains unbroken, there can
be no interactions in the theory (i.e., terms in the
Lagrangian, including a bare mass term) that give
the vector gauge boson a mass. The symmetry
also ensures that this situation remains true even
at higher order in perturbation theory. In particular,
radiative corrections in the form of loop diagrams
(to be explained more thoroughly below) will not
cause the vector gauge boson to acquire a mass.
Likewise a Lagrangian with chiral symmetry
(i.e., a Lagrangian where the right-handed fermions
are treated independently from the left-handed
ones) will exhibit massless fermions to all orders
in perturbation theory. Recall that the typical
terms in the Lagrangian for a gauge theory,
except for fermion mass terms, can be written
separately for the different chiral components".

Z.

On Feb 12, 1:19*am, "Y.Porat" wrote:
On Feb 10, 7:02*am, Zilla wrote:





http://www.sciam.com/article.cfm?id=...ons-in-particl....

Btw... the articles about the Large Hadron Collider and coming
revolutions
in particle physics in Sci-Am mag are shared free in their site (full
articles).

The Hierarchy Problem and its solution is the top reason the LHC
was built in the first place. And it is not just scaling the energy
up,
it promises to discover new structures such as perhaps Santa Claus
being precipitated by the LHC or more exotic dimensional branes.

I think the Hierarchy Problem can have analogy this way. In a
boxing ring, it takes 10 rounds of time for the boxers to punch
themselves around. Let's say the boxing ring is the interaction
region or vertex of QED. In physics, what happens is that in
1 sec or less, all the punches in the 10 rounds happen at
once. This is the magic of QED & QM. Now the Hierarchy Problem
is the mystery how come a Muhammed Ali punch like an infant.
That is, the Higgs can decay into top quark-anti-top quark pairs
and because there are many paths, it can reach planck mass.
But in reality the higgs mass to satisfy the electroweak theory
is only very small. Why? *Who knows, the LHC may discover
sequestering branes that protect the higgs from reaching the
planck mass.

It is surely interesting times ahead come July when the LHC
becomes operational.

I'm still perplexed why chiral symmetry can protect the masses
of the fermions and bosons from the higgs hierarchy problem.
Anyone kind enough to share?

Zilla

---------------------
1
i thought that QM solved everthing !!.......

2
have you heared about the idea of

'The chain of orbitals ' * *???

(3)
you quoted so many parroting nonsense
that beed a special prize from the Land of *nonasense
anyway it sowes clear as sun on midday
that no one undwerstands a **** about what is *realygoing on there
and it i squite clear to me that even the largest LHC
will not make it clearer
if there will be no some change in basic paradigms
like
'no mass in physics '

because old catto saied :
'No mass --no real physics '

ATB
Y.Porat
------------------------------------------- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Btw.. porat.. do you know what is the Hierarchy Problem??

It's like this. Physicists all over the world are perplexed how
come Porat is not as rich as Bill Gates or not as rich as the
richest person in the world. This is because in the world
of the quantum and especially if planck constant is big.
Virtual Porats exist (counterpart of virtual particles) which
don't have fixed mass and energy (and money). This means
virtual porats can have as large a money as Bill gates courtesy
of HUP. And in the odder world of QM. Your interactions
with the world is courtesy of virtual porats.. so if you'll
sum all the virtual porats the vacuum can produce..
you should have planck mass and as rich as Bill Gates.
The mystery is why not. Get the analogy? This is the essence
of the Hierarchy Problem where billions were invested in the
LHC to solve it.

Of course the interaction region or vertex of QED is
quantum while in the world it's newtonians but
physicists like Julian Barbour gave theoretical
justification that all motions are illusions and it is only
quantum considerations that make motions possible
hence even interactions in the classical world like walking
or riding a car is also quantum. See Julian book
"End of Time".. it's of course controversial but it
gives the idea that physicists don't even discount
the possibility the classical world is also quantum
(hence virtual porats with the riches of Bill Gates
should exist that should create a Porat with some
$100 billion money).

In essence. Physicists theories and model are
thousands of times weirder than your classical
chain or orbitals. So to make it to the world. Be
weirder than physicists. That's the rule in physics.
The more newtonian you are, the less your theory
matches to reality. Get it dude?

Z.

On Feb 12, 12:50*am, Zilla wrote:
On Feb 12, 1:19*am, "Y.Porat" wrote:





On Feb 10, 7:02*am, Zilla wrote:

http://www.sciam.com/article.cfm?id=...ons-in-particl....

Btw... the articles about the Large Hadron Collider and coming
revolutions
in particle physics in Sci-Am mag are shared free in their site (full
articles).

The Hierarchy Problem and its solution is the top reason the LHC
was built in the first place. And it is not just scaling the energy
up,
it promises to discover new structures such as perhaps Santa Claus
being precipitated by the LHC or more exotic dimensional branes.

I think the Hierarchy Problem can have analogy this way. In a
boxing ring, it takes 10 rounds of time for the boxers to punch
themselves around. Let's say the boxing ring is the interaction
region or vertex of QED. In physics, what happens is that in
1 sec or less, all the punches in the 10 rounds happen at
once. This is the magic of QED & QM. Now the Hierarchy Problem
is the mystery how come a Muhammed Ali punch like an infant.
That is, the Higgs can decay into top quark-anti-top quark pairs
and because there are many paths, it can reach planck mass.
But in reality the higgs mass to satisfy the electroweak theory
is only very small. Why? *Who knows, the LHC may discover
sequestering branes that protect the higgs from reaching the
planck mass.

It is surely interesting times ahead come July when the LHC
becomes operational.

I'm still perplexed why chiral symmetry can protect the masses
of the fermions and bosons from the higgs hierarchy problem.
Anyone kind enough to share?

Zilla

---------------------
1
i thought that QM solved everthing !!.......

2
have you heared about the idea of

'The chain of orbitals ' * *???

(3)
you quoted so many parroting nonsense
that beed a special prize from the Land of *nonasense
anyway it sowes clear as sun on midday
that no one undwerstands a **** about what is *realygoing on there
and it i squite clear to me that even the largest LHC
will not make it clearer
if there will be no some change in basic paradigms
like
'no mass in physics '

because old catto saied :
'No mass --no real physics '

ATB
Y.Porat
------------------------------------------- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

What nonsense? *It's just the tip of the iceberg.
Physics middle name is strange and weird...
btw... if you want to know too how chiral
symmetry can protect the masses of the fermions
and bosons from the higgs hierarchy problem.
The answers are he

http://www.itep.ru/ws/2003/procs/Froggatt.pdf

see the chapter "Fermion masses and mass protection".

Also in here

http://courses.washington.edu/phys55...20558_lec2.htm

specifically:

"As we discussed last quarter, both vector particles and
spin ½ particles naturally display symmetries that can
ensure that they remain massless. *In the former case
it is a gauge symmetry that plays this role. *As long
as the gauge symmetry remains unbroken, there can
be no interactions in the theory (i.e., terms in the
Lagrangian, including a bare mass term) that give
the vector gauge boson a mass. *The symmetry
also ensures that this situation remains true even
at higher order in perturbation theory. *In particular,
radiative corrections in the form of loop diagrams
(to be explained more thoroughly below) will not
cause the vector gauge boson to acquire a mass.
Likewise a Lagrangian with chiral symmetry
(i.e., a Lagrangian where the right-handed fermions
are treated independently from the left-handed
ones) will exhibit massless fermions to all orders
in perturbation theory. *Recall that the typical
terms in the Lagrangian for a gauge theory,
except for fermion mass terms, can be written
separately for the different chiral components".

Z.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

---------------
my poor advaice to you is to learn the most basic
physics
**before you are fiddling with matheamtics**

the only good tip i can suggest to you
for basic physics is

no mass no real physics !!
just as simple as that !!!


(i leave for you the notion and religiious
crookish - ignorant belife
that physics has to be wired...
the human mind and clergy priests
of 500 years ago --can be wired
the basic inorganig physics is simple!!

keep well
and thing 10 secons before you say so someone
'nonmsense '

Y.Porat
------------------------------

On Feb 11, 11:20 pm, "Y.Porat" wrote:
On Feb 12, 12:50 am, Zilla wrote:



On Feb 12, 1:19 am, "Y.Porat" wrote:

On Feb 10, 7:02 am, Zilla wrote:

http://www.sciam.com/article.cfm?id=...ons-in-particl...

Btw... the articles about the Large Hadron Collider and coming
revolutions
in particle physics in Sci-Am mag are shared free in their site (full
articles).

The Hierarchy Problem and its solution is the top reason the LHC
was built in the first place. And it is not just scaling the energy
up,
it promises to discover new structures such as perhaps Santa Claus
being precipitated by the LHC or more exotic dimensional branes.

I think the Hierarchy Problem can have analogy this way. In a
boxing ring, it takes 10 rounds of time for the boxers to punch
themselves around. Let's say the boxing ring is the interaction
region or vertex of QED. In physics, what happens is that in
1 sec or less, all the punches in the 10 rounds happen at
once. This is the magic of QED & QM. Now the Hierarchy Problem
is the mystery how come a Muhammed Ali punch like an infant.
That is, the Higgs can decay into top quark-anti-top quark pairs
and because there are many paths, it can reach planck mass.
But in reality the higgs mass to satisfy the electroweak theory
is only very small. Why? Who knows, the LHC may discover
sequestering branes that protect the higgs from reaching the
planck mass.

It is surely interesting times ahead come July when the LHC
becomes operational.

I'm still perplexed why chiral symmetry can protect the masses
of the fermions and bosons from the higgs hierarchy problem.
Anyone kind enough to share?

Zilla

---------------------
1
i thought that QM solved everthing !!.......

2
have you heared about the idea of

'The chain of orbitals ' ???

(3)
you quoted so many parroting nonsense
that beed a special prize from the Land of nonasense
anyway it sowes clear as sun on midday
that no one undwerstands a **** about what is realygoing on there
and it i squite clear to me that even the largest LHC
will not make it clearer
if there will be no some change in basic paradigms
like
'no mass in physics '

because old catto saied :
'No mass --no real physics '

ATB
Y.Porat
------------------------------------------- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

What nonsense? It's just the tip of the iceberg.
Physics middle name is strange and weird...
btw... if you want to know too how chiral
symmetry can protect the masses of the fermions
and bosons from the higgs hierarchy problem.
The answers are he

http://www.itep.ru/ws/2003/procs/Froggatt.pdf

see the chapter "Fermion masses and mass protection".

Also in here

http://courses.washington.edu/phys55...20558_lec2.htm

specifically:

"As we discussed last quarter, both vector particles and
spin ½ particles naturally display symmetries that can
ensure that they remain massless. In the former case
it is a gauge symmetry that plays this role. As long
as the gauge symmetry remains unbroken, there can
be no interactions in the theory (i.e., terms in the
Lagrangian, including a bare mass term) that give
the vector gauge boson a mass. The symmetry
also ensures that this situation remains true even
at higher order in perturbation theory. In particular,
radiative corrections in the form of loop diagrams
(to be explained more thoroughly below) will not
cause the vector gauge boson to acquire a mass.
Likewise a Lagrangian with chiral symmetry
(i.e., a Lagrangian where the right-handed fermions
are treated independently from the left-handed
ones) will exhibit massless fermions to all orders
in perturbation theory. Recall that the typical
terms in the Lagrangian for a gauge theory,
except for fermion mass terms, can be written
separately for the different chiral components".

Z.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

---------------
my poor advaice to you is to learn the most basic
physics
**before you are fiddling with matheamtics**

the only good tip i can suggest to you
for basic physics is

no mass no real physics !!
just as simple as that !!!

Translated: "I don't understand how massless particles can possibly
exist, so they are wrong."


(i leave for you the notion and religiious
crookish - ignorant belife
that physics has to be wired...
the human mind and clergy priests
of 500 years ago --can be wired
the basic inorganig physics is simple!!

keep well
and thing 10 secons before you say so someone
'nonmsense '

Y.Porat
------------------------------

"Eric Gisse" wrote in message
...
On Feb 11, 11:20 pm, "Y.Porat" wrote:
On Feb 12, 12:50 am, Zilla wrote:



On Feb 12, 1:19 am, "Y.Porat" wrote:

On Feb 10, 7:02 am, Zilla wrote:


http://www.sciam.com/article.cfm?id=...ons-in-particl...

Btw... the articles about the Large Hadron Collider and coming
revolutions
in particle physics in Sci-Am mag are shared free in their site
(full
articles).

The Hierarchy Problem and its solution is the top reason the LHC
was built in the first place. And it is not just scaling the energy
up,
it promises to discover new structures such as perhaps Santa Claus
being precipitated by the LHC or more exotic dimensional branes.

I think the Hierarchy Problem can have analogy this way. In a
boxing ring, it takes 10 rounds of time for the boxers to punch
themselves around. Let's say the boxing ring is the interaction
region or vertex of QED. In physics, what happens is that in
1 sec or less, all the punches in the 10 rounds happen at
once. This is the magic of QED & QM. Now the Hierarchy Problem
is the mystery how come a Muhammed Ali punch like an infant.
That is, the Higgs can decay into top quark-anti-top quark pairs
and because there are many paths, it can reach planck mass.
But in reality the higgs mass to satisfy the electroweak theory
is only very small. Why? Who knows, the LHC may discover
sequestering branes that protect the higgs from reaching the
planck mass.

It is surely interesting times ahead come July when the LHC
becomes operational.

I'm still perplexed why chiral symmetry can protect the masses
of the fermions and bosons from the higgs hierarchy problem.
Anyone kind enough to share?

Zilla

---------------------
1
i thought that QM solved everthing !!.......

2
have you heared about the idea of

'The chain of orbitals ' ???

(3)
you quoted so many parroting nonsense
that beed a special prize from the Land of nonasense
anyway it sowes clear as sun on midday
that no one undwerstands a **** about what is realygoing on there
and it i squite clear to me that even the largest LHC
will not make it clearer
if there will be no some change in basic paradigms
like
'no mass in physics '

because old catto saied :
'No mass --no real physics '

ATB
Y.Porat
------------------------------------------- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

What nonsense? It's just the tip of the iceberg.
Physics middle name is strange and weird...
btw... if you want to know too how chiral
symmetry can protect the masses of the fermions
and bosons from the higgs hierarchy problem.
The answers are he

http://www.itep.ru/ws/2003/procs/Froggatt.pdf

see the chapter "Fermion masses and mass protection".

Also in here

http://courses.washington.edu/phys55...20558_lec2.htm

specifically:

"As we discussed last quarter, both vector particles and
spin ½ particles naturally display symmetries that can
ensure that they remain massless. In the former case
it is a gauge symmetry that plays this role. As long
as the gauge symmetry remains unbroken, there can
be no interactions in the theory (i.e., terms in the
Lagrangian, including a bare mass term) that give
the vector gauge boson a mass. The symmetry
also ensures that this situation remains true even
at higher order in perturbation theory. In particular,
radiative corrections in the form of loop diagrams
(to be explained more thoroughly below) will not
cause the vector gauge boson to acquire a mass.
Likewise a Lagrangian with chiral symmetry
(i.e., a Lagrangian where the right-handed fermions
are treated independently from the left-handed
ones) will exhibit massless fermions to all orders
in perturbation theory. Recall that the typical
terms in the Lagrangian for a gauge theory,
except for fermion mass terms, can be written
separately for the different chiral components".

Z.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

---------------
my poor advaice to you is to learn the most basic
physics
**before you are fiddling with matheamtics**

the only good tip i can suggest to you
for basic physics is

no mass no real physics !!
just as simple as that !!!

Translated: "I don't understand how massless particles can possibly
exist, so they are wrong."
Me too Eric.
Seems like theories to support theories that don't add up to anything but
the need for additional theory to explain a problem with the last additional
need for further additional theory. If I had to eat this stuff I'd become a
virtual person pretty quickly I think.
No doubt all this stuff has been proven experimentaly?
But as I don't get it I'm virtually stupid too I guess.
Vince

On Feb 12, 1:25*am, Eric Gisse wrote:
On Feb 11, 11:20 pm, "Y.Porat" wrote:
my poor advaice to you is to learn the most basic
physics
**before you are fiddling with matheamtics**

the only good tip i can suggest to you
for basic physics is

no mass no real physics !!
just as simple as that !!!

Translated: "I don't understand how massless particles can possibly
exist, so they are wrong."

A massles quantum is not a particul any more than $1 is a coin.

On Feb 12, 4:20*pm, "Y.Porat" wrote:
On Feb 12, 12:50*am, Zilla wrote:





On Feb 12, 1:19*am, "Y.Porat" wrote:

On Feb 10, 7:02*am, Zilla wrote:

http://www.sciam.com/article.cfm?id=...ons-in-particl...

Btw... the articles about the Large Hadron Collider and coming
revolutions
in particle physics in Sci-Am mag are shared free in their site (full
articles).

The Hierarchy Problem and its solution is the top reason the LHC
was built in the first place. And it is not just scaling the energy
up,
it promises to discover new structures such as perhaps Santa Claus
being precipitated by the LHC or more exotic dimensional branes.

I think the Hierarchy Problem can have analogy this way. In a
boxing ring, it takes 10 rounds of time for the boxers to punch
themselves around. Let's say the boxing ring is the interaction
region or vertex of QED. In physics, what happens is that in
1 sec or less, all the punches in the 10 rounds happen at
once. This is the magic of QED & QM. Now the Hierarchy Problem
is the mystery how come a Muhammed Ali punch like an infant.
That is, the Higgs can decay into top quark-anti-top quark pairs
and because there are many paths, it can reach planck mass.
But in reality the higgs mass to satisfy the electroweak theory
is only very small. Why? *Who knows, the LHC may discover
sequestering branes that protect the higgs from reaching the
planck mass.

It is surely interesting times ahead come July when the LHC
becomes operational.

I'm still perplexed why chiral symmetry can protect the masses
of the fermions and bosons from the higgs hierarchy problem.
Anyone kind enough to share?

Zilla

---------------------
1
i thought that QM solved everthing !!.......

2
have you heared about the idea of

'The chain of orbitals ' * *???

(3)
you quoted so many parroting nonsense
that beed a special prize from the Land of *nonasense
anyway it sowes clear as sun on midday
that no one undwerstands a **** about what is *realygoing on there
and it i squite clear to me that even the largest LHC
will not make it clearer
if there will be no some change in basic paradigms
like
'no mass in physics '

because old catto saied :
'No mass --no real physics '

ATB
Y.Porat
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What nonsense? *It's just the tip of the iceberg.
Physics middle name is strange and weird...
btw... if you want to know too how chiral
symmetry can protect the masses of the fermions
and bosons from the higgs hierarchy problem.
The answers are he

http://www.itep.ru/ws/2003/procs/Froggatt.pdf

see the chapter "Fermion masses and mass protection".

Also in here

http://courses.washington.edu/phys55...20558_lec2.htm

specifically:

"As we discussed last quarter, both vector particles and
spin ½ particles naturally display symmetries that can
ensure that they remain massless. *In the former case
it is a gauge symmetry that plays this role. *As long
as the gauge symmetry remains unbroken, there can
be no interactions in the theory (i.e., terms in the
Lagrangian, including a bare mass term) that give
the vector gauge boson a mass. *The symmetry
also ensures that this situation remains true even
at higher order in perturbation theory. *In particular,
radiative corrections in the form of loop diagrams
(to be explained more thoroughly below) will not
cause the vector gauge boson to acquire a mass.
Likewise a Lagrangian with chiral symmetry
(i.e., a Lagrangian where the right-handed fermions
are treated independently from the left-handed
ones) will exhibit massless fermions to all orders
in perturbation theory. *Recall that the typical
terms in the Lagrangian for a gauge theory,
except for fermion mass terms, can be written
separately for the different chiral components".

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my poor advaice to you is to learn the most basic
physics
**before you are fiddling with matheamtics**

the only good tip i can suggest to you
for basic physics is

no mass no real physics !!
just as simple as that !!!

Btw.. i wonder if you are arguing solely about the photon which
you believed has mass. But isn't it that a gauge boson with
mass has third polarization (like sound wave). They only
detected the third polarization in the weak gauge boson
for example and not the photon so this means the photon
is massless. Unless the photon mass is so tiny that
the third polarization is hard to detect like detecting
gravity wave?

Before you delve deeper about massless photon and
massive photon however. Try first to reflect what really is
mass and what caused mass. If you don't believe in
higgs and the gauge principle and just want to junk
the Standard Model. Try to cook up another principle
how mass occurs in matter and at the same time
predicting the experimental results in QED which has
accuracy of 1 in billions. Do that and we can parade
you around the white house to request redistribution
of funds from LHC to the Porat New Physics Foundation.

z

Z



(i leave for you the notion and religiious
crookish * - ignorant * belife
that physics has to be wired...
the human mind *and clergy priests
of 500 years ago --can be wired
the basic inorganig physics is simple!!

keep well
and thing 10 * secons before you say so someone
'nonmsense '

Y.Porat
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