I read the current February Scientific American issue which
focuses on the Large Hadron Collider and the coming physics.
It mentions the so called Hierarchy Problem. I encountered this
concept before in Randall's Warped Passages & others but
didn't totally undersTOOD them. I thought it was simply
about why gravity is very weak compared to the electroweak
or unification scale... and I thought before so what they
are just like that. but the article and succeeding researches in
the net say there is a technical explanation and it is about
the Higgs. Theoretical justification says that the Higgs boson
which satisfy the electroweak theory should have almost planck
mass but in reality it is much lower.

For those who don't understand what is the Hierarchy Problem.
This is how I understand it. Say Jerry who is poor african guy has
total money or asset of $50. Bill Gates has asset worth $100 billion.
In
the odd quantum world. Virtual particles can do parlor tricks. So
it's like asking how come Jerry is not as rich as Bill Gates.
In quantum terms esp HUP. If the time is small enough, there
is uncertainty in energy which could be any amount. So poor
Jerry could have $100 billion within a certain time allowed
by the uncertainty. This means Jerry has potential $100 billion
but how come he doesn't actually have it.

Well. The above is not a very accurate analogy. Let's go
directly to the point. The Higgs can theoretically have virtual
particles that can reach the planck mass or energy. So
theoretical justification says the Higgs boson should be almost
in the planck mass range because of quantum contributions
or corrections (involving virtual particles). But in reality it is
only in
the electroweak mass scale (1 TeV compared to the planck
mass 10 ^ 16 T).

So the most puzzling problem in physics now is how come
poor Jerry or almost any person on earth is not as rich
as Bill Gates? Or why the Higgs doesn't have planck mass..

BTW.. I also read that chiral symmetry protect the masses
of the bosons and fermions such as quarks and electrons
from undergoing the same problem as the Higgs which
can by theory reach planck mass scale but not.
Something about the actual masses proportional to the
intrinsic masses (bare masses without quantum contributions).
Can anyone explain what this means? Does it have something
to do with the fact that the quarks and electrons before
symmetry breaking don't have masses that's why they
are said to be "protected" or is it a QED stunt and if so,
What's the detail why chiral symmetry protect the masses of the
bosons and fermions from undergoing quantum corrections
that could pull their masses to the planck scale?

Well. Presently they have some solutions to solve the Hierarchy
Problem. One is Supersymmetry in which our fermions and
bosons have superpartners. This means the higgs planck
mass of say a photon is cancelled by the corresponding
higgs planck mass of say the sphoton but this is not
convincing because they are not detected as is, meaning
they don't exactly correspond to the standard model masses.
Also Supersymmetry can introduce 120 more constants of
nature add hocly added in addition to the 20 Standard Model
variables.

The second solution to solve the hierarchy problems involved
hidden dimensions. I went back to Randall book and finally
understood what she was implying. It is that the electroweak
masses are sequestered in a brane while the planck masses
are sequestered in another brane. This means their
quantum side is isolated from each other so the higgs can
only reach the maximum of the electroweak mass scale
or about 1 TeV rather than 10 ^16T. This is cool explanation
and I wonder how many agree to this. Randall also mentions
how infinite extra dimensions could exist and the
Kaluza Klein signatures or particles being so light
that they can't be detected (because of the theory that
small dimensions can produce massive KK particles
while large dimensions can produce lighter KK particles).

Third solution is the so called "light higgs" stuff which
doesn't allow higher dimensions. Do you agree with it?

Fourth solution is that the concept of virtual particles have
flaws or not thouroughly understood although this is
unlikely because of the amazing success of QED and
QFT which can prove in analogy that a poor south
african farmer named Jerry can have a virtual Jerry that
is as rich as Bill Gates. This is the amazing world of
QED where things are more bizarre than sci-fi. Where
quantum corrections and virtual particles can play
parlor tricks that can make newtonians crazy.

The Hierarchy Problem is the mother of physics problem in
which convensional physicists focus. I wonder how come
the kooks here don't discuss this. This is much more
interesting than any of their materials. Come on. Let's
focus on the Hierarchy Problem as it is what really
matter.

Zilla

Zilla wrote:

I read the current February Scientific American issue

pity

which

that

focuses on the Large Hadron Collider and the coming physics.

No; proposed discoveries. There is no reason to believe the Higgs
boson or SUSI partners will be detected. Physics has degenerated into
perturbative and Yukawa treatments abetted by numerical solution
methods that can exactly predict anything. BFD. The Higgs is
especially egregious as the source of mass in the Standard Model that
has never contained mass. It's insubordination that empirical reality
contradicts the elegant math.

"It doesn't matter how beautiful your theory is, it doesn't matter how
smart you are. If it doesn't agree with experiment, it's wrong."
Richard Feynman. Rather than improve the Stanard Model we've sought
to bury it under offal.

Proton decay half-life was *exquisitely* predicted to be a
supersymmetry necessity safely outside experimental falsification. 50
kilotonnes of ulrapure water inside Super-Kamiokande empirically
falsified it. The calculations were then "repeated" to give a
half-life some 100X as long - a supersymmetry necessity safely
outside experimental falsification. Alas, methods are now in the tube
for swallowing even that. Not to worry! The calculations are being
"repeated to higher accuracy."

It mentions the so called Hierarchy Problem. I encountered this
concept before in Randall's Warped Passages & others but
didn't totally undersTOOD them. I thought it was simply
about why gravity is very weak compared to the electroweak
or unification scale...

Nobody knows; all guesses are cheap speculation uterlya bsent
experimental observation. What we do definitively know without a
single exception is that every and all attempts to quantize
gravitation are seven-second cheek slapper disasters. As with
religion, failure is a test of faith and must then be more vigorously
pursued. Seeking a different tack is blasphemy - too risky for
possessing unknown hazards.

An advocate makes virtue of failure. The worse the cure the better
the treatment - and the more that is required. Best efforts will not
substitute for knowledge. Rather than foster brilliance, we allocate
for its suppression. In order to maintain an untenable position you
must be actively ignorant... though stupidity, religion, insanity, or
an MBA are passively adequate.

NEVER fund young faculty! Pour money into tenured mediocrity.
Immortality has no impetus to improve and rock the boat.

and I thought before so what they
are just like that. but the article and succeeding researches in
the net say there is a technical explanation and it is about
the Higgs. Theoretical justification says that the Higgs boson
which satisfy the electroweak theory should have almost planck
mass but in reality it is much lower.
[snip]

There is no Higgs. If the Higgs discovered, Uncle Al will apologize.
Given that the most likely Higgs mass range has already been minutely
explored, Uncle Al is on the fat side of the bet.

BTW.. I also read that chiral symmetry protect the masses
of the bosons and fermions such as quarks and electrons
from undergoing the same problem as the Higgs which
can by theory reach planck mass scale but not.
[snip]

Planck mass, time, and length are dimension matching with aggregates
of "universal constants." Unlike dimensionless constants in
engineering, Planck quantities have no meaning independent of
observer. There is a fast, cheap, simple, and equisitely sesnsitive
test of chiral vacuum background anistropy,

http://www.mazepath.com/uncleal/lajos.htm#a2

The physics community continues to actively oppose its execution
because "there is too much risk of failure." This can be contrasted
with 100% failure in quantized gravitation, 100% failure in
Equivalence Principle violation detection, 100% failure in vacuum
background detection, e.g.,

"New CP-Violation and Preferred-Frame Tests with Polarized Electrons"
Phys. Rev. Lett. 97, 021603 (2006)
http://www.npl.washington.edu/eotwash/publications/pdf/prl97-021603.pdf

100% failure in Lorentz violation detection,

http://arXiv.org/abs/0706.2031
Physics Today 57(7) 40 (2004)
http://physicstoday.org/vol-57/iss-7/p40.shtml
http://cfa-www.harvard.edu/Walsworth/pdf/PT_Romalis0704.pdf
http://fsweb.berry.edu/academic/mans/clane/
http://physicsweb.org/articles/world/17/3/7

100% failure in axion detection,

http://cerncourier.com/cws/article/cern/29663
http://cast.web.cern.ch/CAST/
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CERN_Axion_Solar_Telescope

The mere thought of overturning 430 years of physics with two benzil
crystals melted in a pair of differential scanning calorimeters
promises some very real *known* hazards.

The Hierarchy Problem is the mother of physics problem in
which convensional physicists focus. I wonder how come
the kooks here don't discuss this.

You lack self-awarness. The primary indicator of an idiot is absence
of literature citations. Universal truth and philosophical
necessities don't need no stinking empirical observations. Every word
of the bible is exact and true right from god's mouth. Anybody who
says the words are different in different bibles is thereby
demonstrated to be unqualified to comment.

This is much more
interesting than any of their materials. Come on. Let's
focus on the Hierarchy Problem as it is what really
matter.

Observation is real. Theory is an excuse for inaction.

--
Uncle Al
http://www.mazepath.com/uncleal/
(Toxic URL! Unsafe for children and most mammals)
http://www.mazepath.com/uncleal/lajos.htm#a2

On Feb 11, 3:37*am, Uncle Al wrote:
Zilla wrote:

I read the current February Scientific American issue

pity

which

that

focuses on the Large Hadron Collider and the coming physics.

No; proposed discoveries. *There is no reason to believe the Higgs
boson or SUSI partners will be detected. *Physics has degenerated into
perturbative and Yukawa treatments abetted by numerical solution
methods that can exactly predict anything. *BFD. *The Higgs is
especially egregious as the source of mass in the Standard Model that
has never contained mass. *It's insubordination that empirical reality
contradicts the elegant math.


If there is no higgs. What initiated electroweak symmetry breaking?
Higgs is important in the gauge principle which underlies the standard
model. I hope you can supply arvix papers that show how higgless
physics can still occur that won't shatter the standard model.

Tnx.

Z

"It doesn't matter how beautiful your theory is, it doesn't matter how
smart you are. *If it doesn't agree with experiment, it's wrong."
Richard Feynman. *Rather than improve the Stanard Model we've sought
to bury it under offal.

Proton decay half-life was *exquisitely* predicted to be a
supersymmetry necessity safely outside experimental falsification. *50
kilotonnes of ulrapure water inside Super-Kamiokande empirically
falsified it. *The calculations were then "repeated" to give a
half-life some 100X as long - *a supersymmetry necessity safely
outside experimental falsification. *Alas, methods are now in the tube
for swallowing even that. *Not to worry! *The calculations are being
"repeated to higher accuracy."

It mentions the so called Hierarchy Problem. I encountered this
concept before in Randall's Warped Passages & others but
didn't totally undersTOOD them. I thought it was simply
about why gravity is very weak compared to the electroweak
or unification scale...

Nobody knows; all guesses are cheap speculation uterlya bsent
experimental observation. *What we do definitively know without a
single exception is that every and all attempts to quantize
gravitation are seven-second cheek slapper disasters. *As with
religion, failure is a test of faith and must then be more vigorously
pursued. *Seeking a different tack is blasphemy - too risky for
possessing unknown hazards.

An advocate makes virtue of failure. *The worse the cure the better
the treatment - and the more that is required. *Best efforts will not
substitute for knowledge. *Rather than foster brilliance, we allocate
for its suppression. *In order to maintain an untenable position you
must be actively ignorant... though stupidity, religion, insanity, or
an MBA are passively adequate.

NEVER fund young faculty! *Pour money into tenured mediocrity.
Immortality has no impetus to improve and rock the boat.

and I thought before so what they
are just like that. but the article and succeeding researches in
the net say there is a technical explanation and it is about
the Higgs. Theoretical justification says that the Higgs boson
which satisfy the electroweak theory should have almost planck
mass but in reality it is much lower.

[snip]

There is no Higgs. *If the Higgs discovered, Uncle Al will apologize.
Given that the most likely Higgs mass range has already been minutely
explored, Uncle Al is on the fat side of the bet.

BTW.. I also read that chiral symmetry protect the masses
of the bosons and fermions such as quarks and electrons
from undergoing the same problem as the Higgs which
can by theory reach planck mass scale but not.

[snip]

Planck mass, time, and length are dimension matching with aggregates
of "universal constants." *Unlike dimensionless constants in
engineering, Planck quantities have no meaning independent of
observer. *There is a fast, cheap, simple, and equisitely sesnsitive
test of chiral vacuum background anistropy,

http://www.mazepath.com/uncleal/lajos.htm#a2

The physics community continues to actively oppose its execution
because "there is too much risk of failure." *This can be contrasted
with 100% failure in quantized gravitation, 100% failure in
Equivalence Principle violation detection, 100% failure in vacuum
background detection, e.g.,

"New CP-Violation and Preferred-Frame Tests with Polarized Electrons"
Phys. Rev. Lett. 97, 021603 (2006)
http://www.npl.washington.edu/eotwash/publications/pdf/prl97-021603.pdf

100% failure in Lorentz violation detection,

http://arXiv.org/abs/0706.2031
Physics Today 57(7) 40 (2004)http://physicstoday.org/vol-57/iss-7/p40.shtml
http://cfa-www.harvard.edu/Walsworth/pdf/PT_Romalis0704.pdf *http://fsweb.berry.edu/academic/mans...s/world/17/3/7

100% failure in axion detection,

http://cerncourier.com/cws/article/cern/29663http://cast.web.cern.ch/CAST/
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CERN_Axion_Solar_Telescope

The mere thought of overturning 430 years of physics with two benzil
crystals melted in a pair of differential scanning calorimeters
promises some very real *known* hazards.

The Hierarchy Problem is the mother of physics problem in
which convensional physicists focus. I wonder how come
the kooks here don't discuss this.

You lack self-awarness. *The primary indicator of an idiot is absence
of literature citations. *Universal truth and philosophical
necessities don't need no stinking empirical observations. *Every word
of the bible is exact and true right from god's mouth. *Anybody who
says the words are different in different bibles is thereby
demonstrated to be unqualified to comment.

This is much more
interesting than any of their materials. Come on. Let's
focus on the Hierarchy Problem as it is what really
matter.

Observation is real. *Theory is an excuse for inaction.

--
Uncle Alhttp://www.mazepath.com/uncleal/
*(Toxic URL! Unsafe for children and most mammals)http://www.mazepath.com/uncleal/lajos.htm#a2

Zilla wrote:

On Feb 11, 3:37 am, Uncle Al wrote:
Zilla wrote:

I read the current February Scientific American issue

pity

which

that

focuses on the Large Hadron Collider and the coming physics.

No; proposed discoveries. There is no reason to believe the Higgs
boson or SUSI partners will be detected. Physics has degenerated into
perturbative and Yukawa treatments abetted by numerical solution
methods that can exactly predict anything. BFD. The Higgs is
especially egregious as the source of mass in the Standard Model that
has never contained mass. It's insubordination that empirical reality
contradicts the elegant math.


If there is no higgs. What initiated electroweak symmetry breaking?

The vacuum has a measurable chiral pseudoscalar background. It
powered inflation, froze the Weak interaction 100% left-handed, and
selected matter over antimatter. Its current day remnant dilution of
less than 10^(-12) relative vacuum anisiotropy imposed biological
homochirality. It is only active in the mass sector by configuration
and is therefore 100% invisible to all (massless, photons)
electromagnetic probes to date,

http://www.mazepath.com/uncleal/lajos.htm#a9
end of section, Term 5: epsilon_{abcd} R^{ab} ^ e^c ^ e^d

http://www.mazepath.com/uncleal/lajos.htm#a2
entirely measurable - the only opinion that matters. Observe it, or
not.

Anistropic vacuum background violates conservation of angular momentum
for opposite parity mass distributions. Does that bend your nose out
of joint? Physics symmetry breakings by chiral probes have been
universally loathed by calcified minds. The universe does not care,

http://# physics.nist.gov/GenInt/Parity/cover.html

Higgs is important in the gauge principle which underlies the standard
model. I hope you can supply arvix papers that show how higgless
physics can still occur that won't shatter the standard model.

There is nothing sacred about the Standard Model. General Relativity
and quantum field theory are irreconcilable. Something is deeply
incorrect about the very basis of modern physics. The first step in
fixing a problem is identifying the problem's origins.

"It doesn't matter how beautiful your theory is, it doesn't matter how
smart you are. If it doesn't agree with experiment, it's wrong."
Richard Feynman.

Rather than improve the Stanard Model we've gold plated it then safely
buried it under offal.

--
Uncle Al
http://www.mazepath.com/uncleal/
(Toxic URL! Unsafe for children and most mammals)
http://www.mazepath.com/uncleal/lajos.htm#a2

On Feb 12, 12:18*am, Uncle Al wrote:
Zilla wrote:

On Feb 11, 3:37 am, Uncle Al wrote:
Zilla wrote:

I read the current February Scientific American issue

pity

which

that

focuses on the Large Hadron Collider and the coming physics.

No; proposed discoveries. *There is no reason to believe the Higgs
boson or SUSI partners will be detected. *Physics has degenerated into
perturbative and Yukawa treatments abetted by numerical solution
methods that can exactly predict anything. *BFD. *The Higgs is
especially egregious as the source of mass in the Standard Model that
has never contained mass. *It's insubordination that empirical reality
contradicts the elegant math.

If there is no higgs. What initiated electroweak symmetry breaking?

The vacuum has a measurable chiral pseudoscalar background. *It
powered inflation, froze the Weak interaction 100% left-handed, and
selected matter over antimatter. *Its current day remnant dilution of
less than 10^(-12) relative vacuum anisiotropy imposed biological
homochirality. *It is only active in the mass sector by configuration
and is therefore 100% invisible to all (massless, photons)
electromagnetic probes to date,

Well. A chiral vacuum still doesn't explain why matter have mass.
If there is no higgs. We would all be massless and the world
would not be what it is today. Unless you can make a model
how a chiral vacuum can give mass to matter. Could you or
anyone?

Z.





http://www.mazepath.com/uncleal/lajos.htm#a9
*end of section, Term 5: *epsilon_{abcd} R^{ab} ^ e^c ^ e^d

http://www.mazepath.com/uncleal/lajos.htm#a2
*entirely measurable - the only opinion that matters. *Observe it, or
not.

Anistropic vacuum background violates conservation of angular momentum
for opposite parity mass distributions. *Does that bend your nose out
of joint? *Physics symmetry breakings by chiral probes have been
universally loathed by calcified minds. *The universe does not care,

http://# physics.nist.gov/GenInt/Parity/cover.html

Higgs is important in the gauge principle which underlies the standard
model. I hope you can supply arvix papers that show how higgless
physics can still occur that won't shatter the standard model.

There is nothing sacred about the Standard Model. *General Relativity
and quantum field theory are irreconcilable. *Something is deeply
incorrect about the very basis of modern physics. *The first step in
fixing a problem is identifying the problem's origins.

"It doesn't matter how beautiful your theory is, it doesn't matter how
smart you are. *If it doesn't agree with experiment, it's wrong."
Richard Feynman. *

Rather than improve the Stanard Model we've gold plated it then safely
buried it under offal.

--
Uncle Alhttp://www.mazepath.com/uncleal/
*(Toxic URL! Unsafe for children and most mammals)http://www.mazepath.com/uncleal/lajos.htm#a2- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

On Feb 11, 2:34*pm, Zilla wrote:
Well. A chiral vacuum still doesn't explain why matter have mass.
If there is no higgs. We would all be massless and the world
would not be what it is today. Unless you can make a model
how a chiral vacuum can give mass to matter. Could you or
anyone?

I like technicolor. By the way, I predictd everything there could
ever be: http://google.com/groups?q=gravor+electrion+color.

On Feb 11, 2:34*pm, Zilla wrote:
Well. A chiral vacuum still doesn't explain why matter have mass.
If there is no higgs. We would all be massless and the world
would not be what it is today. Unless you can make a model
how a chiral vacuum can give mass to matter. Could you or
anyone?

I like technicoloral hadròns. By the way, I predictd everything there
could ever be: http://google.com/groups?q=gravor+electrion+color.

Uncle Al wrote:
The primary indicator of an idiot is absence
of literature citations. Universal truth and philosophical
necessities don't need no stinking empirical observations.

Einstein, A., "Zür Elektrodynamik bewegter Körper",
Annalen der Physik, Vol. 17


How many cites did this paper reference?

--
Rich

"RichD" wrote in message
...
Uncle Al wrote:
The primary indicator of an idiot is absence
of literature citations. Universal truth and philosophical
necessities don't need no stinking empirical observations.

| Einstein, A., "Zür Elektrodynamik bewegter Körper",
| Annalen der Physik, Vol. 17


| How many cites did this paper reference?

| --
| Rich

The primary indicator of an idiot is absence of literature citations.
The secondary indicator of an idiot is calling one's self "Uncle".