I only found two reports using google news. Not very convincing.

http://www.nolanchart.com/article7327.html
http://www.examiner.com/examiner/x-8...tion-completed

One mo http://freeorbo.wordpress.com/2010/0...ve-commentary/

"Eric Gisin" wrote in message
...
I only found two reports using google news. Not very convincing.

http://www.nolanchart.com/article7327.html
http://www.examiner.com/examiner/x-8...tion-completed

One mo
http://freeorbo.wordpress.com/2010/0...ve-commentary/

Interestingly enough, the Steorn discussion group (what's left of it) seems
to have ignored this.

There is a lot of (deliberate?) obfuscation regarding Steorn's approach.
Would you like to make a "stab" at explaining the underlying principle (as
you understand it)?

Bill Miller

"Bill Miller" wrote in message
...
"Eric Gisin" wrote in message
...
I only found two reports using google news. Not very convincing.

http://www.nolanchart.com/article7327.html

http://www.examiner.com/examiner/x-8...tion-completed

One mo
http://freeorbo.wordpress.com/2010/0...ve-commentary/

Interestingly enough, the Steorn discussion group (what's left of it)
seems
to have ignored this.

There is a lot of (deliberate?) obfuscation regarding Steorn's approach.
Would you like to make a "stab" at explaining the underlying principle (as
you understand it)?

Bill Miller



Please excuse my boldness Bill for putting my nose in others business.

The way I see the 'orbo' as it was opperating in the demo is as follows.
There is a stator with an array of four evenly spaced toroidal electro
magnets. The toroids are aligned horizontaly.
There is also one pickup (generator) coil that may or may not be toroidal.
The rotor has four vertical rows of PMs. Each row contains two PMs with
opposite flux direction with a relatively small space between them.

At start, the flux of the PMs flows through the unenergized toroidal EMs.
As the rotor magnets align with the stator toroids the toroidal EMs are
pulsed, thereby fully saturating the toroids. Being fully saturated they
are then basicaly invisible to the rotor PMs as no external flux can enter
them. The energy required to saturate the toroids is very little.

If the claims are true (and of course they can't be then the amount of
energy required to satturate and desatturate the toroids is considerabley
less than the kinetic energy the rotor gains from the rotor magnets
interaction with the unsatturated torids.

There is no apparent Lenz force as there can be no further interaction
between the rotor and stator after satturation.

Although I have recently read an engineer claiming there was no Lenz force
due to the fact that there was no load, that is not correct. The pickup
coil was shorted and acting as a heater. He somehow didn't see that as a
load.

I've found it an interesting demo and I've been looking at toroidal stator
poles closely since I saw it. The fact that a toroidal magnet is magneticly
invisible once satturated, and the samll amount of power required to achieve
that, is in this arrangement very very interesting.

Of course it can't possibly work, so I'll just keep playing with my own
toroids happily knowing I'm totaly wasting my time

Highest regards,
Vince

"Vince Morgan" wrote in message
...

"Bill Miller" wrote in message
...
"Eric Gisin" wrote in message
...
I only found two reports using google news. Not very convincing.

http://www.nolanchart.com/article7327.html

http://www.examiner.com/examiner/x-8...tion-completed

One mo
http://freeorbo.wordpress.com/2010/0...ve-commentary/

Interestingly enough, the Steorn discussion group (what's left of it)
seems
to have ignored this.

There is a lot of (deliberate?) obfuscation regarding Steorn's approach.
Would you like to make a "stab" at explaining the underlying principle
(as
you understand it)?

Bill Miller



Please excuse my boldness Bill for putting my nose in others business.

The way I see the 'orbo' as it was opperating in the demo is as follows.
There is a stator with an array of four evenly spaced toroidal electro
magnets. The toroids are aligned horizontaly.
There is also one pickup (generator) coil that may or may not be toroidal.
The rotor has four vertical rows of PMs. Each row contains two PMs with
opposite flux direction with a relatively small space between them.

At start, the flux of the PMs flows through the unenergized toroidal EMs.
As the rotor magnets align with the stator toroids the toroidal EMs are
pulsed, thereby fully saturating the toroids. Being fully saturated they
are then basicaly invisible to the rotor PMs as no external flux can
enter
them. The energy required to saturate the toroids is very little.

If the claims are true (and of course they can't be then the amount of
energy required to satturate and desatturate the toroids is considerabley
less than the kinetic energy the rotor gains from the rotor magnets
interaction with the unsatturated torids.

There is no apparent Lenz force as there can be no further interaction
between the rotor and stator after satturation.

Although I have recently read an engineer claiming there was no Lenz force
due to the fact that there was no load, that is not correct. The pickup
coil was shorted and acting as a heater. He somehow didn't see that as a
load.

I've found it an interesting demo and I've been looking at toroidal stator
poles closely since I saw it. The fact that a toroidal magnet is
magneticly
invisible once satturated, and the samll amount of power required to
achieve
that, is in this arrangement very very interesting.

Of course it can't possibly work, so I'll just keep playing with my own
toroids happily knowing I'm totaly wasting my time

Highest regards,
Vince

Hi Vince...

No apology needed for jumping in.

Let me see if I can paraphrase to see if I understand.

A rotor (either magnetic or a magnetic material like iron) is atracted by
another static magnet. It gains kinetic energy as it moves toward the
magnet. At an appropriate time, electrical energy is applied to a coil
associated with the attracting magnet. The energy is of a duration and
polarity such that it neutralizes the magnetic field of the magnet. The
rotor's kinetic energy/momentum carries it past the static magnet and into
the attractive field of the next static magnet.

The idea is that a short duration neutralizing pulse will not consume as
much energy as the energy gained by the rotor as it is attracted by the
magnet.

Is that basically it?

Bill

"Bill Miller" wrote in message
...

"Vince Morgan" wrote in message
...

"Bill Miller" wrote in message
...
"Eric Gisin" wrote in message
...
I only found two reports using google news. Not very convincing.

http://www.nolanchart.com/article7327.html


http://www.examiner.com/examiner/x-8...tion-completed

One mo
http://freeorbo.wordpress.com/2010/0...ve-commentary/

Interestingly enough, the Steorn discussion group (what's left of it)
seems
to have ignored this.

There is a lot of (deliberate?) obfuscation regarding Steorn's
approach.
Would you like to make a "stab" at explaining the underlying principle
(as
you understand it)?

Bill Miller



Please excuse my boldness Bill for putting my nose in others business.

The way I see the 'orbo' as it was opperating in the demo is as follows.
There is a stator with an array of four evenly spaced toroidal electro
magnets. The toroids are aligned horizontaly.
There is also one pickup (generator) coil that may or may not be
toroidal.
The rotor has four vertical rows of PMs. Each row contains two PMs with
opposite flux direction with a relatively small space between them.

At start, the flux of the PMs flows through the unenergized toroidal
EMs.
As the rotor magnets align with the stator toroids the toroidal EMs are
pulsed, thereby fully saturating the toroids. Being fully saturated
they
are then basicaly invisible to the rotor PMs as no external flux can
enter
them. The energy required to saturate the toroids is very little.

If the claims are true (and of course they can't be then the amount
of
energy required to satturate and desatturate the toroids is
considerabley
less than the kinetic energy the rotor gains from the rotor magnets
interaction with the unsatturated torids.

There is no apparent Lenz force as there can be no further interaction
between the rotor and stator after satturation.

Although I have recently read an engineer claiming there was no Lenz
force
due to the fact that there was no load, that is not correct. The pickup
coil was shorted and acting as a heater. He somehow didn't see that as
a
load.

I've found it an interesting demo and I've been looking at toroidal
stator
poles closely since I saw it. The fact that a toroidal magnet is
magneticly
invisible once satturated, and the samll amount of power required to
achieve
that, is in this arrangement very very interesting.

Of course it can't possibly work, so I'll just keep playing with my own
toroids happily knowing I'm totaly wasting my time

Highest regards,
Vince

Hi Vince...

No apology needed for jumping in.


Very gracious, thank you Bill.

Let me see if I can paraphrase to see if I understand.

A rotor (either magnetic or a magnetic material like iron) is atracted by
another static magnet. It gains kinetic energy as it moves toward the
magnet. At an appropriate time, electrical energy is applied to a coil
associated with the attracting magnet. The energy is of a duration and
polarity such that it neutralizes the magnetic field of the magnet. The

Yes Bill, neautral in that they become externaly non magnetic. Once the
stator electro magnets (which must be fully closed magnetic paths) are fully
saturated they are no longer able to accept flux from the rotor magnets.
So, whilest the stator EMs are pulsed they no longer interact with the rotor
PMs.

rotor's kinetic energy/momentum carries it past the static magnet and into
the attractive field of the next static magnet.

The idea is that a short duration neutralizing pulse will not consume as
much energy as the energy gained by the rotor as it is attracted by the
magnet.

Is that basically it?

Yes, though the closed magnetic path (toroidal) configuration is very
important as the energy required to achieve the effect is considerably
reduced.

About 12 mths ago I asked a question on this group regarding the fact that a
closed path magnetically saturated EM is magnetically invisible to a PM. I
was investigating Joseph Flynn's magnetic parralel path arrangement when it
occured to me that saturation might achieve even better results. So, I was
quite interested to discover that Steorn had incorporated this effect.

Highest regards,
Vince

"Vince Morgan" wrote in message
u...
[snip]
Yes Bill, neautral in that they become externaly non magnetic. Once the
stator electro magnets (which must be fully closed magnetic paths) are
fully
saturated they are no longer able to accept flux from the rotor magnets.
So, whilest the stator EMs are pulsed they no longer interact with the
rotor
PMs.


Correction:
After doing simulations with 'FEMM' I see that a saturated closed path EM
will accept some flux from an external magnet. However, the coupling is
vastly reduced, and the energy required to achieve the degree of saturation
required to achieve the maximum reduction is very little. I can now see why
Steorn are claiming an 8% inductance gain too.
Regards,
Vince