I always though it was a bad idea to enclose the individual conductors of
how current electric power distribution/transmission in metallic enclosures,
and that you needed to enclose everything as a group to cancel out the
magnetic field. Now I see this:

http://www.knowledgeproblem.com/archives/002590.html

Could it be that these tubes really have 2 conductors each at 180 degrees?

How much current can a major 765kV transmission line carry? Now what voltage
would be used for the same thing over superconductor "wires"? Is part of the
idea to allow going lower in voltage, and higher in current? What kinds of
issues might exist with very high current AC transmission lines (or even DC)?

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----------------------------
wrote in message
...
I always though it was a bad idea to enclose the individual conductors of
how current electric power distribution/transmission in metallic
enclosures,
and that you needed to enclose everything as a group to cancel out the
magnetic field. Now I see this:

http://www.knowledgeproblem.com/archives/002590.html

Could it be that these tubes really have 2 conductors each at 180 degrees?
----------
These cables are part of a 3 phase system. Each "cable" will have one
conductor and, yes there will be a magnetic field produced in each. However,
the external field will be small once you are some relatively small distance
away from the group. In addition, under balanced conditions, there will be
no return current in either the pipes or the ground.
If you look at the connections in the background- you have conventional 3
phase (2 conductor bundle feeding each cable).

There also appears to some hype in the story as the attached references
indicate a total length of a bit under 2000 feet-not 99 miles. The capacity
is 574MW so the current would be about 2.5KA
Possibly the mention of 6 system ties and 99 miles means that a future link
would have roughly 20 mile sections, allowing compensation at each tie.

How much current can a major 765kV transmission line carry? Now what
voltage
would be used for the same thing over superconductor "wires"? Is part of
the
idea to allow going lower in voltage, and higher in current? What kinds
of
issues might exist with very high current AC transmission lines (or even
DC)?
---------

What a 765KV transmission line will carry is not usually limited by the
current capability of the conductors except for a short line. Typically
there will be 4 conductors in a phase bundle and these but sizing for other
factors generally means that current is not a limit (look at the incoming
bundle in the picture- which has to handle .

What an EHV line can carry is given roughly by MW*Km =1.4(KV^2)
This is a pushing it so about half of that is a typical figure so= 2500MW
for a 100 mile line is in the ballpark. Roughly 2KA

For short runs, superconductor "wires" are good but for longer runs, other
factors do come in. For example 1 mile of underground cable is roughly
(thumbnail estimate) equivalent to 10 miles of overhead line and 30 miles is
then a long cable. This is because of the high capacitance of cable. The
limiting factor of a power line is not resistance but the effects of
inductance and capacitance. Even for HVDC the resistance is not a big
issue.

Where superconducting lines can be effective is in built up, high real
estate, regions and then the savings in right of way costs can make them
economic. This is where superconductors promise to be attractive.

--

Don Kelly
remove the X to answer




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ignorance |
| by the abuse department, bellsouth.net is blocked. If you post
to |
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| Phil Howard KA9WGN (email for humans: first name in lower case at
ipal.net) |

In alt.engineering.electrical Don Kelly wrote:
|
| ----------------------------
| wrote in message
| ...
|I always though it was a bad idea to enclose the individual conductors of
| how current electric power distribution/transmission in metallic
| enclosures,
| and that you needed to enclose everything as a group to cancel out the
| magnetic field. Now I see this:
|
| http://www.knowledgeproblem.com/archives/002590.html
|
| Could it be that these tubes really have 2 conductors each at 180 degrees?
| ----------
| These cables are part of a 3 phase system. Each "cable" will have one
| conductor and, yes there will be a magnetic field produced in each. However,
| the external field will be small once you are some relatively small distance
| away from the group. In addition, under balanced conditions, there will be
| no return current in either the pipes or the ground.
| If you look at the connections in the background- you have conventional 3
| phase (2 conductor bundle feeding each cable).

I could not see it all so clearly (a larger sharper picture would have helped).
But it did look like a simple delta feed.

What I would be curious about is the effects of magnetic fields very near
and especially between conductors. I'm assuming the spacing between these
enclosed cables would remain about the same along the run. Would there be
continuous vibration between the cables? The reason I am curious about
this is that I've heard that with superconductors, very high currents
would be used, like 10kA or more, in lieu of EHV.

Normally, for service runs to customers, it is not allowed to run each phase
in separate conduit and that it has to all be in a common conduit.


| There also appears to some hype in the story as the attached references
| indicate a total length of a bit under 2000 feet-not 99 miles. The capacity
| is 574MW so the current would be about 2.5KA
| Possibly the mention of 6 system ties and 99 miles means that a future link
| would have roughly 20 mile sections, allowing compensation at each tie.

Hmmm. So superconducting transmission lines have applicable limitations.


| How much current can a major 765kV transmission line carry? Now what
| voltage
| would be used for the same thing over superconductor "wires"? Is part of
| the
| idea to allow going lower in voltage, and higher in current? What kinds
| of
| issues might exist with very high current AC transmission lines (or even
| DC)?
| ---------
|
| What a 765KV transmission line will carry is not usually limited by the
| current capability of the conductors except for a short line. Typically
| there will be 4 conductors in a phase bundle and these but sizing for other
| factors generally means that current is not a limit (look at the incoming
| bundle in the picture- which has to handle .

So the reactance becomes the limiting factor very quickly with length?


| What an EHV line can carry is given roughly by MW*Km =1.4(KV^2)
| This is a pushing it so about half of that is a typical figure so= 2500MW
| for a 100 mile line is in the ballpark. Roughly 2KA

So what can you do to boost the capacity of a transmission line? I take it
you are saying that doubling up the conductors won't do it.

Is this why the Soviets were working on 1+MV transmission lines to cross
Siberia?


| For short runs, superconductor "wires" are good but for longer runs, other
| factors do come in. For example 1 mile of underground cable is roughly
| (thumbnail estimate) equivalent to 10 miles of overhead line and 30 miles is
| then a long cable. This is because of the high capacitance of cable. The
| limiting factor of a power line is not resistance but the effects of
| inductance and capacitance. Even for HVDC the resistance is not a big
| issue.
|
| Where superconducting lines can be effective is in built up, high real
| estate, regions and then the savings in right of way costs can make them
| economic. This is where superconductors promise to be attractive.

If we build up a large windmill generating facility on the slope plains east
of the Rockies, e.g as in "The Pickens Plan", that would mean a very long
distance transmission of power. How can we most effectively get this power
to the places it is needed? Lots of compensation points?

--
|WARNING: Due to extreme spam, googlegroups.com is blocked. Due to ignorance |
| by the abuse department, bellsouth.net is blocked. If you post to |
| Usenet from these places, find another Usenet provider ASAP. |
| Phil Howard KA9WGN (email for humans: first name in lower case at ipal.net) |