"John C. Polasek" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 01 Jul 2008 17:28:17 GMT, "Bill Miller"
wrote:


"John C. Polasek" wrote in message
news
ruthless snip

Even in introductory texts, it wouldn't be terribly difficult to say
something like, "Maxwell's equations demonstrate a clear relationship
between Electric(E) and Magnetic (H) fields. This is sometimes
erroneously
interpreted as meaning that E causes H and H causes E. However, a
careful
analysis shows that E fields and H fields are sololy caused by charges
and
the movement of charges.""

Not too hard.
You are full of beans.

Yep... Had some last night.

As soon as the currents pulse up and down in
the antenna, a good portion of the energy exits as EM waves that take
off across the country. They're on their own and don't need overt
charges or currents. E, D, B and H are taken care of by polarization
of eps0 and mu0, properties of the vacuum. They exchange energies as
they go along.

Your case would be stronger if E and H (in an EM wave) were out of phase.
Then we would have a situation analagous to -- say -- a spring or water
waves, wherein kinetic energy gets swapped for potential energy, etc.

BUT E and H are in phase! How in the world can anyone imagine that two in
phase and contiguaous signals are *swapping* energy? If you can do so, I
believe we would all love to hear how it works.

OK, here's how they swap energy, (and remember, you promised to love
to hear this).
Using spring mass for simplicity

I just dropped everything, rushed outside and looked at my antennas. No
matter how hard I looked, I couldn't find a spring.

and recognizing that the wave will be
sinusoidal, the force on the spring is proportional to displacement
Fk = F0 sin wt (say)
The force on the mass is proportional to acceleration, two derivatives
removed, so it's 180 degrees out of phase.
Fm = - w^2F0 sin wt
The energies likewise peak 180 degrees apart.


I'm sorry, John. I still don' see no spring!

And while Saint Albert (and the bomb) taught us that Energy and Mass have
equivalency, I do not see where mass enters into this situation.

Are you perhaps suggesting that the free space epsilon exhibits the same
type of spring-like latency that we see in the epsilon of many solid
dielectrics? If so, then, yes, we see a phase shift.

But I am not aware of any such phase shift that has bee measured in free
space. If this is your suggestion, then show us the free space experimental
evidence, please.

So you were approximately correct, that they are in phase, yes, in a
larger sense. After all, what's a minus sign? Well, shucks, let's just
admit that they are out of phase, as you were opining, making my case
stronger as you point out. I'm gratified.

THEN stand by your phone for the Stockholm call!

Your assumption of currents and charges being present and essential is
just as valid as the teams now looking for Wimps and Machos to explain
the dark matter problem.

Currents and charges are essential to LAUNCH the wave(s). Afterwards, the
separate E and H signals are in lock step and isolated.

By the way which do you prefer:
D = E and B = H
or D = eps0E and B = mu0H ?

I pick....

Let's see...

Door number... Ummm...Well...

Oh gosh, I just can't decide!

You dodged the D=E bullet. That's a sure sign of a benighted cgs'er
who at least has the decency to feel a little guilty.

OK You caught me! I choose...

British Thermal Units and Furlongs Per Fortnight

Bill


Bill


Timo Nieminen - Home page:
http://www.physics.uq.edu.au/people/nieminen/
E-prints: http://eprint.uq.edu.au/view/person/...,_Timo_A..html
Shrine to Spirits:
http://www.users.bigpond.com/timo_nieminen/spirits.html

John Polasek

On Tue, 01 Jul 2008 21:40:52 GMT, "Bill Miller"
wrote:


"John C. Polasek" wrote in message
.. .
On Tue, 01 Jul 2008 17:28:17 GMT, "Bill Miller"
wrote:


"John C. Polasek" wrote in message
news
ruthless snip

Even in introductory texts, it wouldn't be terribly difficult to say
something like, "Maxwell's equations demonstrate a clear relationship
between Electric(E) and Magnetic (H) fields. This is sometimes
erroneously
interpreted as meaning that E causes H and H causes E. However, a
careful
analysis shows that E fields and H fields are sololy caused by charges
and
the movement of charges.""

Not too hard.
You are full of beans.

Yep... Had some last night.

As soon as the currents pulse up and down in
the antenna, a good portion of the energy exits as EM waves that take
off across the country. They're on their own and don't need overt
charges or currents. E, D, B and H are taken care of by polarization
of eps0 and mu0, properties of the vacuum. They exchange energies as
they go along.

Your case would be stronger if E and H (in an EM wave) were out of phase.
Then we would have a situation analagous to -- say -- a spring or water
waves, wherein kinetic energy gets swapped for potential energy, etc.

BUT E and H are in phase! How in the world can anyone imagine that two in
phase and contiguaous signals are *swapping* energy? If you can do so, I
believe we would all love to hear how it works.

OK, here's how they swap energy, (and remember, you promised to love
to hear this).
Using spring mass for simplicity

I just dropped everything, rushed outside and looked at my antennas. No
matter how hard I looked, I couldn't find a spring.

and recognizing that the wave will be
sinusoidal, the force on the spring is proportional to displacement
Fk = F0 sin wt (say)
The force on the mass is proportional to acceleration, two derivatives
removed, so it's 180 degrees out of phase.
Fm = - w^2F0 sin wt
The energies likewise peak 180 degrees apart.


I'm sorry, John. I still don' see no spring!

You have not looked at my model of the ether (pairspace) on my
website. The springs are right in front of your nose; capacitive
energy is stored in the extension of the springs: dx = E*e/K.
It is the only arrangement that will duplicate the action of eps0.
The spring/mass resonance for the bound charges in space is
w = sqrt(K/m) = 1.693e22 rad/sec.
The frequency response of any radiation frequency f or w, fits on a
Bode diagram, showing the mass has very little effect till we approach
resonance:
Kx = mW^2x
Fm/Fk = w^2/W^2
And while Saint Albert (and the bomb) taught us that Energy and Mass have
equivalency, I do not see where mass enters into this situation.

Are you perhaps suggesting that the free space epsilon exhibits the same
type of spring-like latency that we see in the epsilon of many solid
dielectrics? If so, then, yes, we see a phase shift.

Of course I am. See the website. It all works.

But I am not aware of any such phase shift that has bee measured in free
space. If this is your suggestion, then show us the free space experimental
evidence, please.

So you were approximately correct, that they are in phase, yes, in a
larger sense. After all, what's a minus sign? Well, shucks, let's just
admit that they are out of phase, as you were opining, making my case
stronger as you point out. I'm gratified.

THEN stand by your phone for the Stockholm call!

Your assumption of currents and charges being present and essential is
just as valid as the teams now looking for Wimps and Machos to explain
the dark matter problem.

Currents and charges are essential to LAUNCH the wave(s). Afterwards, the
separate E and H signals are in lock step and isolated.

By the way which do you prefer:
D = E and B = H
or D = eps0E and B = mu0H ?

I pick....

Let's see...

Clearly it would be fruitless for me to go through a whole lot of
handsprings for someone who still thinks the vacuum is empty and D=E
and B=H, equations that are easy to memorize, but which, even with a
little more substance added, barely approach tautology.
Maxwell's Ddot lives!

Oh gosh, I just can't decide!

You dodged the D=E bullet. That's a sure sign of a benighted cgs'er
who at least has the decency to feel a little guilty.

OK You caught me! I choose...

British Thermal Units and Furlongs Per Fortnight

Bill


Bill
John Polasek
http://www.dualspace.net

"John C. Polasek" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 01 Jul 2008 21:40:52 GMT, "Bill Miller"
wrote:


"John C. Polasek" wrote in message
. ..
On Tue, 01 Jul 2008 17:28:17 GMT, "Bill Miller"
wrote:


"John C. Polasek" wrote in message
news ruthless snip

Even in introductory texts, it wouldn't be terribly difficult to say
something like, "Maxwell's equations demonstrate a clear relationship
between Electric(E) and Magnetic (H) fields. This is sometimes
erroneously
interpreted as meaning that E causes H and H causes E. However, a
careful
analysis shows that E fields and H fields are sololy caused by charges
and
the movement of charges.""

Not too hard.
You are full of beans.

Yep... Had some last night.

As soon as the currents pulse up and down in
the antenna, a good portion of the energy exits as EM waves that take
off across the country. They're on their own and don't need overt
charges or currents. E, D, B and H are taken care of by polarization
of eps0 and mu0, properties of the vacuum. They exchange energies as
they go along.

Your case would be stronger if E and H (in an EM wave) were out of
phase.
Then we would have a situation analagous to -- say -- a spring or water
waves, wherein kinetic energy gets swapped for potential energy, etc.

BUT E and H are in phase! How in the world can anyone imagine that two
in
phase and contiguaous signals are *swapping* energy? If you can do so, I
believe we would all love to hear how it works.

OK, here's how they swap energy, (and remember, you promised to love
to hear this).
Using spring mass for simplicity

I just dropped everything, rushed outside and looked at my antennas. No
matter how hard I looked, I couldn't find a spring.

and recognizing that the wave will be
sinusoidal, the force on the spring is proportional to displacement
Fk = F0 sin wt (say)
The force on the mass is proportional to acceleration, two derivatives
removed, so it's 180 degrees out of phase.
Fm = - w^2F0 sin wt
The energies likewise peak 180 degrees apart.


I'm sorry, John. I still don' see no spring!

You have not looked at my model of the ether (pairspace) on my
website. The springs are right in front of your nose; capacitive
energy is stored in the extension of the springs: dx = E*e/K.
It is the only arrangement that will duplicate the action of eps0.
The spring/mass resonance for the bound charges in space is
w = sqrt(K/m) = 1.693e22 rad/sec.
The frequency response of any radiation frequency f or w, fits on a
Bode diagram, showing the mass has very little effect till we approach
resonance:
Kx = mW^2x
Fm/Fk = w^2/W^2
And while Saint Albert (and the bomb) taught us that Energy and Mass have
equivalency, I do not see where mass enters into this situation.

Are you perhaps suggesting that the free space epsilon exhibits the same
type of spring-like latency that we see in the epsilon of many solid
dielectrics? If so, then, yes, we see a phase shift.

Of course I am. See the website. It all works.

But I am not aware of any such phase shift that has bee measured in free
space. If this is your suggestion, then show us the free space
experimental
evidence, please.

So you were approximately correct, that they are in phase, yes, in a
larger sense. After all, what's a minus sign? Well, shucks, let's just
admit that they are out of phase, as you were opining, making my case
stronger as you point out. I'm gratified.

THEN stand by your phone for the Stockholm call!

Your assumption of currents and charges being present and essential is
just as valid as the teams now looking for Wimps and Machos to explain
the dark matter problem.

Currents and charges are essential to LAUNCH the wave(s). Afterwards,
the
separate E and H signals are in lock step and isolated.

By the way which do you prefer:
D = E and B = H
or D = eps0E and B = mu0H ?

I pick....

Let's see...

Clearly it would be fruitless for me to go through a whole lot of
handsprings for someone who still thinks the vacuum is empty and D=E
and B=H, equations that are easy to memorize, but which, even with a
little more substance added, barely approach tautology.
Maxwell's Ddot lives!

John... Extraordinary claims require extraordinary proofs.

Although you may have forgotten, you and I swapped several private messages
after I visited your website a year or so a go. (This was about the time
that Benj asked about magnetism caused by D & I pointed him at Jefimenko.)

At that time, I told you that -- primarily due to the appearance of your
site and the quality of the writeup(s) -- I found your fascinating
propoition to dramatically lack credibility. I gave you some epecific
suggestions as to how you could improve both. I'm afraid I still have my
original opinion.

All the best,

Bill

Oh gosh, I just can't decide!

You dodged the D=E bullet. That's a sure sign of a benighted cgs'er
who at least has the decency to feel a little guilty.

OK You caught me! I choose...

British Thermal Units and Furlongs Per Fortnight

Bill


Bill
John Polasek
http://www.dualspace.net

On 2 Jul, 03:04, John C. Polasek wrote:
On Tue, 01 Jul 2008 21:40:52 GMT, "Bill Miller"





wrote:

"John C. Polasek" wrote in message
.. .
On Tue, 01 Jul 2008 17:28:17 GMT, "Bill Miller"
wrote:

"John C. Polasek" wrote in message
news ruthless snip

Even in introductory texts, it wouldn't be terribly difficult to say
something like, "Maxwell's equations demonstrate a clear relationship
between Electric(E) and Magnetic (H) fields. This is sometimes
erroneously
interpreted as meaning that E causes H and H causes E. However, a
careful
analysis shows that E fields and H fields are sololy caused by charges
and
the movement of charges.""

Not too hard.
You are full of beans.

Yep... Had some last night.

As soon as the currents pulse up and down in
the antenna, a good portion of the energy exits as EM waves that take
off across the country. They're on their own and don't need overt
charges or currents. E, D, B and H are taken care of by polarization
of eps0 and mu0, properties of the vacuum. They exchange energies as
they go along.

Your case would be stronger if E and H (in an EM wave) were out of phase.
Then we would have a situation analagous to -- say -- a spring or water
waves, wherein kinetic energy gets swapped for potential energy, etc.

BUT E and H are in phase! How in the world can anyone imagine that two in
phase and contiguaous signals are *swapping* energy? If you can do so, I
believe we would all love to hear how it works.

OK, here's how they swap energy, (and remember, you promised to love
to hear this).
Using spring mass for simplicity

I just dropped everything, rushed outside and looked at my antennas. No
matter how hard I looked, I couldn't find a spring.

and recognizing that the wave will be
sinusoidal, the force on the spring is proportional to displacement
Fk = F0 sin wt *(say)
The force on the mass is proportional to acceleration, two derivatives
removed, so it's 180 degrees out of phase.
Fm = - w^2F0 sin wt
The energies likewise peak 180 degrees apart.

I'm sorry, John. I still don' see no spring!

You have not looked at my model of the ether (pairspace) on my
website. The springs are right in front of your nose; capacitive
energy is stored in the extension of the springs: *dx = E*e/K.
It is the only arrangement that will duplicate the action of eps0.
The spring/mass resonance for the bound charges in space is
* * * * w = sqrt(K/m) = 1.693e22 rad/sec.
The frequency response of any radiation frequency f or w, fits on a
Bode diagram, showing the mass has very little effect till we approach
resonance:
* * * * Kx = mW^2x
* * * * Fm/Fk = w^2/W^2

And while Saint Albert (and the bomb) taught us that Energy and Mass have
equivalency, I do not see where mass enters into this situation.

Are you perhaps suggesting that the free space epsilon exhibits the same
type of spring-like latency that we see in the epsilon of many solid
dielectrics? If so, then, yes, we see a phase shift.

Of course I am. See the website. It all works.





But I am not aware of any such phase shift that has bee measured in free
space. If this is your suggestion, then show us the free space experimental
evidence, please.

So you were approximately correct, that they are in phase, yes, in a
larger sense. After all, what's a minus sign? Well, shucks, let's just
admit that they are out of phase, as you were opining, making my case
stronger as you point out. I'm gratified.

THEN stand by your phone for the Stockholm call!

Your assumption of currents and charges being present and essential is
just as valid as the teams now looking for Wimps and Machos to explain
the dark matter problem.

Currents and charges are essential to LAUNCH the wave(s). Afterwards, the
separate E and H signals are in lock step and isolated.

By the way which do you prefer:
D = E *and B = H
or D = eps0E and B = mu0H *?

I pick....

Let's see...

Clearly it would be fruitless for me to go through a whole lot of
handsprings for someone who still thinks the vacuum is empty and D=E
and B=H, equations that are easy to memorize, but which, even with a
little more substance added, barely approach tautology.
Maxwell's Ddot lives!

Oh gosh, I just can't decide!

You dodged the D=E bullet. That's a sure sign of a benighted cgs'er
who at least has the decency to feel a little guilty.

OK You caught me! I choose...

British Thermal Units and Furlongs Per Fortnight

Bill

Bill

John Polasekhttp://www.dualspace.net- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

This mechanical model of yours describes how EM waves propagate
through the vacuum, so does that mean EM waves will propagate at
different speeds relative to a laboratory moving at varying speeds
relative to this "ether"?

snip


This mechanical model of yours describes how EM waves propagate
through the vacuum, so does that mean EM waves will propagate at
different speeds relative to a laboratory moving at varying speeds
relative to this "ether"?
You probably haven't taken the time to study the permittivity paper or
you would see that my model first defines how electron pairs are bound
in place in "pairspace" by the equivalent of linear springs to exactly
account for the permittivity of space. It has an exact spring constant
K, which is a major improvement over the Nobel-winning "strong force"
that's just a good idea without any calibration that I know of.
PS is a solid with the Youngs modulus and density that convey EM
signals at the speed of light = sqrt(Y/rho) just as with
sqrt(eps/rho).
The signals travel absolutely in a rigid pairspace, and with c-v
relative to a receding laboratory which will detect a redshift. No one
actually measures the speed of light, much as you might think it's a
given.
This pairspace is a dual space to our space. Ancient methods tried to
find an ether that had these properties, but that you could also walk
through.
It's all in the book.
John Polasek